Combat will make or break this game for me.... granted im not really to excited about it, but theres almost 0 chance ill play warhammer, so hopefully aoc is good enough to last till something like huxely or apd comes out.
This seems a very bot/hack friendly system. Maybe its just the myriad of hackers in pvp I've seen that makes me nervous. Can't outclick a bot. Should I be worried?
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" (Psalm 94:16)
Is it true you cannot control the direction you are facing with the mouse? I would of thought you could free look by holding a mouse button down and with none pressed, turn your character.
I am also a bit worried about macros spamers and bots. There is nothing worse than people who cheat when they play games as it ruins the whole experience.
Well I played avencast based on the suggestion here and I gotta say I don't like it at all... If this is what the combat system is going to feel like I'm really verging on canceling my preorder now. I'll probably hold out just cause I really like the graphics and art style. But man I'll be disappointed if the combat isn't better or if the control of combat is too difficult to be comfortable with.
Oh well by the time AoC comes out then Vanguard will be ready for release :P and I do like the Vanguard combat system.
I wouldn't can it just yet, if you were looking into getting this game before this topic, why not give it a shot? It is a new system in MMORPGs, it will be hard to tell if its "for you" without you actually trying it.
No bunny hopping please... this is Hyborian fantasy melee combat not the bunny parade. I salute FC for having the balls to challenge the norm and go out to make a more exciting combat system. While I don't think it'll be perfect, I totally think it's a step in the right direction. Oh and the 'Darwinism ftw' comment was great haha. AoC won't be for everyone that's for sure... but those who will learn and gain skill will enjoy the heck out of it.
Dethgar: I'm fairly certain you do what you want in combat, but for the combos to work you have to follow the guide as combo possibilities open up. You can't start out with like, a 'fatality' you have to build up to it, I think.... don't quote me I don't follow AoC that much...
I wouldn't expect to start off with fatal attacks. I was more or less talking about doing chained moves and special attacks when you decide to, rather than when the games AI decides to throw that move combo up for you to use it by pressing the corresponding keys.
Not sure if you have seen the recent (released yesterday) Combat training video with Erling, but in it you see, clear as day, that you take the combos you have learned so far and drag them to your hotbar. When you want to do one, you click the button (so not waiting on AI) and it then tells you which keys in which order to hit to pull off combo. If you have the order memorized, then you don't have to press the hotbar key to get the visual queues, you just hit the attack sequence.
Fatalities, unless they have changed, are the product of getting a combo off at the right moment when your target has little health so that the executed combo takes out the last of the targets health.
Ah, thank you for the clarification. I will check out the video, sounds much better than what I had expected.
I think the combat looks good, im sure it will be more difficult for people to get into. But the aim for the game is adult players so a more complex and ritch system is something i applaud. Add the fact that we will get less pre:teens nagging and making ruckuss online adds to the charm.
I think PvP will be good, I first was thinking about WAR but after getting sick of the kids in WOW (why i recently ended my subscription well that and the fact i had t6... you can only run ZA and BT so much until you get sick of it, add 5+min wait to arena and u get = )! that the game is sure to attract im aiming for a more mature game. I might still pickup WAR if AoC turns out to be a flop, but so far im happy with the art style and ofc the PvP look stellar
I think the combat looks good, im sure it will be more difficult for people to get into. But the aim for the game is adult players so a more complex and ritch system is something i applaud. Add the fact that we will get less pre:teens nagging and making ruckuss online adds to the charm.
I think PvP will be good aswell, I was thinking about WAR for a long time but after getting sick of the kids! that the game is sure to attract im aiming for a more mature game. I might still pickup WAR if AoC turns out to be a flop, but so far im happy with the art style and ofc the PvP look stellar
If you think the mature rating is going to thwart tons of "kids" from getting Age of Conan you are fooling yourself.
Originally posted by ltdaryth Is it true you cannot control the direction you are facing with the mouse? I would of thought you could free look by holding a mouse button down and with none pressed, turn your character.
I really hope that you are right, I would really hate to turn with the keyboard while trying to execute combos.
For me too, the combat will make or break this game, however no matter how it goes, I applaud Funcom for trying to do things different rather then run EQ/WOW/etc. recepy in yet another setting.
I think the combat looks good, im sure it will be more difficult for people to get into. But the aim for the game is adult players so a more complex and ritch system is something i applaud. Add the fact that we will get less pre:teens nagging and making ruckuss online adds to the charm.
I think PvP will be good aswell, I was thinking about WAR for a long time but after getting sick of the kids! that the game is sure to attract im aiming for a more mature game. I might still pickup WAR if AoC turns out to be a flop, but so far im happy with the art style and ofc the PvP look stellar
If you think the mature rating is going to thwart tons of "kids" from getting Age of Conan you are fooling yourself.
Well im sure responsible parents will keep their kids away from the game, and i predict it will effect the level of maturity that the community will have. That said ofc there will still be whiners and kids playing the game but on a whole im serten that a game that has a complex fight system will deter people who is just out to grief and acting childish, and promote a more mature gaming experience. The Guilds of AoC im serten will be exlusivly mature atleast the top end ones. But as you say i might be fooling myself, time will tell... And if AoC fail atleast we get WAR as a good backup. In the end im happy with anything that can pickup after my WoW account.
Is it true you cannot control the direction you are facing with the mouse? I would of thought you could free look by holding a mouse button down and with none pressed, turn your character.
I really hope that you are right, I would really hate to turn with the keyboard while trying to execute combos.
For me too, the combat will make or break this game, however no matter how it goes, I applaud Funcom for trying to do things different rather then run EQ/WOW/etc. recepy in yet another setting.
Any gamer would have thought that, turn the character with the mouse, hold a mouse button down to look in different directions.
Game design 101: A and D keys are for sidestepping, not steering the character.
I hope someone comes up with a great game soon that really plays the way gamers want to play.
Watch the latest episode of "The Guild" and other Pwnage videos from around the net--also post your own: http://PwnerTV.com
Well I'm just excited to try something new. Whether or not it works really really well can only be judged once the game has come out, but if you look at the most recent development (did i spell that right?) diary they have a very broken down explanation of combat with an in-game example in the background so at least someone was having an easy time with it while they were filming.
Additionally, I disagree that combat will make or break this game, I really feel that there is enough depth in this game beyond the combat that if there are minor problems with it people will keep playing regardless.
Lastly, is there no way to customize your key setting? If there is then people could set up the keys to whatever was most convenient for them and this whole conversation would be without point.
Controls are pretty much like WoW, you can move with the mouse, A/D + RClick strafe, etc. Combat is no more complicated than a rogue with keybinds, although AoC is more static movement wise.
It is a bit innovative since enemies are weaker against certain attacks but nothing to write home about.
Fun at first... then smashing keys to change the direction of a hit becomes annoying. For example, hit upper left attack one to many times, and the npc will increase its sheild in that direction... so now you just smash middle attack. VERY basic, a monkey could do it. Special attacks require certain attacks, such as upper left, then upper right to be executed.
Those that are saying a more complex combat system will deter "kids" are wrong. The more complex and different the combat, the less likely an older game won't be able to pick it up as quickly. This is a generalization, but often times true. "Kids" learn things much mroe quickly than adults. Basically, if the game requires a lot of dexterity and is complicated, a lot of older gamers might not be able to play it well at first. This could lead to them not wanting to play more because it's not fun for them. Either way, more difficult controls and gameplay won't necessarily deter "kids".
Fun at first... then smashing keys to change the direction of a hit becomes annoying. For example, hit upper left attack one to many times, and the npc will increase its sheild in that direction... so now you just smash middle attack. VERY basic, a monkey could do it. Special attacks require certain attacks, such as upper left, then upper right to be executed.
This is kinda how I see it also. It's also funny to me how people talk about complex and simple saying I want a complex combat system and equating that to this discussion.
Just for clarity Complex to me is about things like chess where you have to think and it requires some strategy.
Complex is not being able to mash keys continuously using 20 fingers while moving your mouse. That isn't complete that is physically difficult and frustrating.
So if you play to enjoy a finger sport then perhaps AoC is going to be your ticket. If you play to have a complex strategic and dynamic combat experience where using the right abilities at the right times or in coordination with other team members this is where I'm not seeing the beef in AoC. So far I'm seeing a pared down set of abilities forcing me to pick 8 abilities and then having to also continuously hit my autoattack button switching to the unshielded side...
But hey soon we will be able to get into the game and actually know how it works.
Lets drop the "complex battle" thing, call it "different played battle" and drop the whole thing, shall we?
And to whoever mentioned it, M rating does not equate maturity, I'm expecting to see the exact same level of maturity as any other game out there, with things actually being sillier during the couple first weeks.
You don't have to look at the combat rose to do the combos. If you know what the combo needs or what the strokes are you can just do them in order. For instance if it's Q,3,1 you can just look at your swings and hit Q, then as your character executes that motion you hit the next one. By the time you gain a few levels you'll commit most of the combos to memory and will know when to use them best by baiting the shields of your enemy to certain positions so that your combo opener will do the most damage.
Nobody ever starts out being the master of anything. You have to learn. Everybody is a "noob" at one point.
Actually that isn't how it works. You have to start with the combo key. So you want ot do a combo you hit like hotkey 5 to start the combo. That puts an icon on your screen and shows what the next directional attack you need to do is. Then you hit that and the next one and the next one and it does the combo. There isn't any secret combo system where just hitting a sequence of attacks triggers a combo.
Watch the video explaining combat that was posted today or maybe yesterday.
Clicking on a combo and having the UI show you the corect order in which to press buttons is ok for training purposes, BUT if I HAVE to activate a combo every time I want to use it...
It defeats the whole purpose of the combat system, I realy do want to run into a group of enemys and start swinging my sword right from he start not having to click 6 than wait and folow the instructions on screen, than press 7 and follow the instructions on screen, yuck!
Even more so in PVP, I say right now that if this is the final descision, PVP will suck some funky balls.
Originally posted by tkreep
Will the PC version game allow me to use my 360 controller like it would be when it comes to the 360 console?
Yes and this too, I want it, just have a feeling it would be alot more fun than mashing keyboard buttons.
You don't need to click on the combo to activate it. If you know it by heart, you just swing your weapon in the required directions to trigger the combo. To do combos you use Q123E, and most of the combos arent hard to memorise. For example if there's a hamstring combo you click Q 1 and you hamstring your opponent instead of clicking a button and automatically doing it like most other mmos.
No, you must activate the combo (click it) and do the moves required in order to pull it off, if you do an attack that's not part of the chain the combo will deactivate.
Comments
Combat will make or break this game for me.... granted im not really to excited about it, but theres almost 0 chance ill play warhammer, so hopefully aoc is good enough to last till something like huxely or apd comes out.
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
This seems a very bot/hack friendly system. Maybe its just the myriad of hackers in pvp I've seen that makes me nervous. Can't outclick a bot. Should I be worried?
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Is it true you cannot control the direction you are facing with the mouse? I would of thought you could free look by holding a mouse button down and with none pressed, turn your character.
I am also a bit worried about macros spamers and bots. There is nothing worse than people who cheat when they play games as it ruins the whole experience.
If the combat system is as bad as the beta system, this turd will float away.
It's the new Vanguard
If that's true, that's about as big an indictment of a game as you can have...
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
Well I played avencast based on the suggestion here and I gotta say I don't like it at all... If this is what the combat system is going to feel like I'm really verging on canceling my preorder now. I'll probably hold out just cause I really like the graphics and art style. But man I'll be disappointed if the combat isn't better or if the control of combat is too difficult to be comfortable with.
Oh well by the time AoC comes out then Vanguard will be ready for release :P and I do like the Vanguard combat system.
---
Ethion
I wouldn't can it just yet, if you were looking into getting this game before this topic, why not give it a shot? It is a new system in MMORPGs, it will be hard to tell if its "for you" without you actually trying it.
I wouldn't expect to start off with fatal attacks. I was more or less talking about doing chained moves and special attacks when you decide to, rather than when the games AI decides to throw that move combo up for you to use it by pressing the corresponding keys.
Not sure if you have seen the recent (released yesterday) Combat training video with Erling, but in it you see, clear as day, that you take the combos you have learned so far and drag them to your hotbar. When you want to do one, you click the button (so not waiting on AI) and it then tells you which keys in which order to hit to pull off combo. If you have the order memorized, then you don't have to press the hotbar key to get the visual queues, you just hit the attack sequence.Fatalities, unless they have changed, are the product of getting a combo off at the right moment when your target has little health so that the executed combo takes out the last of the targets health.
Ah, thank you for the clarification. I will check out the video, sounds much better than what I had expected.
I think the combat looks good, im sure it will be more difficult for people to get into. But the aim for the game is adult players so a more complex and ritch system is something i applaud. Add the fact that we will get less pre:teens nagging and making ruckuss online adds to the charm.
I think PvP will be good, I first was thinking about WAR but after getting sick of the kids in WOW (why i recently ended my subscription well that and the fact i had t6... you can only run ZA and BT so much until you get sick of it, add 5+min wait to arena and u get =
)! that the game is sure to attract im aiming for a more mature game. I might still pickup WAR if AoC turns out to be a flop, but so far im happy with the art style and ofc the PvP look stellar 
If you think the mature rating is going to thwart tons of "kids" from getting Age of Conan you are fooling yourself.
For me too, the combat will make or break this game, however no matter how it goes, I applaud Funcom for trying to do things different rather then run EQ/WOW/etc. recepy in yet another setting.
If you think the mature rating is going to thwart tons of "kids" from getting Age of Conan you are fooling yourself.
Well im sure responsible parents will keep their kids away from the game, and i predict it will effect the level of maturity that the community will have. That said ofc there will still be whiners and kids playing the game but on a whole im serten that a game that has a complex fight system will deter people who is just out to grief and acting childish, and promote a more mature gaming experience. The Guilds of AoC im serten will be exlusivly mature atleast the top end ones. But as you say i might be fooling myself, time will tell... And if AoC fail atleast we get WAR as a good backup. In the end im happy with anything that can pickup after my WoW account.
I really hope that you are right, I would really hate to turn with the keyboard while trying to execute combos.For me too, the combat will make or break this game, however no matter how it goes, I applaud Funcom for trying to do things different rather then run EQ/WOW/etc. recepy in yet another setting.
Any gamer would have thought that, turn the character with the mouse, hold a mouse button down to look in different directions.
Game design 101: A and D keys are for sidestepping, not steering the character.
I hope someone comes up with a great game soon that really plays the way gamers want to play.
Watch the latest episode of "The Guild" and other Pwnage videos from around the net--also post your own: http://PwnerTV.com
Well I'm just excited to try something new. Whether or not it works really really well can only be judged once the game has come out, but if you look at the most recent development (did i spell that right?) diary they have a very broken down explanation of combat with an in-game example in the background so at least someone was having an easy time with it while they were filming.
Additionally, I disagree that combat will make or break this game, I really feel that there is enough depth in this game beyond the combat that if there are minor problems with it people will keep playing regardless.
Lastly, is there no way to customize your key setting? If there is then people could set up the keys to whatever was most convenient for them and this whole conversation would be without point.
go tj crew
if nohing else heres a video of the barbarian in action at gdc i belive
(ts hella loud)
www.youtube.com/watch
nice, you can actually move around and be effective in combat. it looks like he's using the mouse to move his screen also. woot
combat looks good so far
Controls are pretty much like WoW, you can move with the mouse, A/D + RClick strafe, etc. Combat is no more complicated than a rogue with keybinds, although AoC is more static movement wise.
It is a bit innovative since enemies are weaker against certain attacks but nothing to write home about.
Fun at first... then smashing keys to change the direction of a hit becomes annoying. For example, hit upper left attack one to many times, and the npc will increase its sheild in that direction... so now you just smash middle attack. VERY basic, a monkey could do it. Special attacks require certain attacks, such as upper left, then upper right to be executed.
Those that are saying a more complex combat system will deter "kids" are wrong. The more complex and different the combat, the less likely an older game won't be able to pick it up as quickly. This is a generalization, but often times true. "Kids" learn things much mroe quickly than adults. Basically, if the game requires a lot of dexterity and is complicated, a lot of older gamers might not be able to play it well at first. This could lead to them not wanting to play more because it's not fun for them. Either way, more difficult controls and gameplay won't necessarily deter "kids".
This is kinda how I see it also. It's also funny to me how people talk about complex and simple saying I want a complex combat system and equating that to this discussion.
Just for clarity Complex to me is about things like chess where you have to think and it requires some strategy.
Complex is not being able to mash keys continuously using 20 fingers while moving your mouse. That isn't complete that is physically difficult and frustrating.
So if you play to enjoy a finger sport then perhaps AoC is going to be your ticket. If you play to have a complex strategic and dynamic combat experience where using the right abilities at the right times or in coordination with other team members this is where I'm not seeing the beef in AoC. So far I'm seeing a pared down set of abilities forcing me to pick 8 abilities and then having to also continuously hit my autoattack button switching to the unshielded side...
But hey soon we will be able to get into the game and actually know how it works.
---
Ethion
Lets drop the "complex battle" thing, call it "different played battle" and drop the whole thing, shall we?
And to whoever mentioned it, M rating does not equate maturity, I'm expecting to see the exact same level of maturity as any other game out there, with things actually being sillier during the couple first weeks.
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/743/743392/vid_2332969.html
Hey guys check this linik out and go to combat training. This guy explains combat and combos.
Actually that isn't how it works. You have to start with the combo key. So you want ot do a combo you hit like hotkey 5 to start the combo. That puts an icon on your screen and shows what the next directional attack you need to do is. Then you hit that and the next one and the next one and it does the combo. There isn't any secret combo system where just hitting a sequence of attacks triggers a combo.
Watch the video explaining combat that was posted today or maybe yesterday.
pc.ign.com/articles/861/861250p1.html
Clicking on a combo and having the UI show you the corect order in which to press buttons is ok for training purposes, BUT if I HAVE to activate a combo every time I want to use it...
It defeats the whole purpose of the combat system, I realy do want to run into a group of enemys and start swinging my sword right from he start not having to click 6 than wait and folow the instructions on screen, than press 7 and follow the instructions on screen, yuck!
Even more so in PVP, I say right now that if this is the final descision, PVP will suck some funky balls.
Yes and this too, I want it, just have a feeling it would be alot more fun than mashing keyboard buttons.
You don't need to click on the combo to activate it. If you know it by heart, you just swing your weapon in the required directions to trigger the combo. To do combos you use Q123E, and most of the combos arent hard to memorise. For example if there's a hamstring combo you click Q 1 and you hamstring your opponent instead of clicking a button and automatically doing it like most other mmos.
All is explained in this video btw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAzH5gmlJF4
No, you must activate the combo (click it) and do the moves required in order to pull it off, if you do an attack that's not part of the chain the combo will deactivate.