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Crafting, wait what?
Shadow786
Member UncommonPosts: 210
The crafting is the same in most games, by the time you learn to weild a new weapon crafted by yourself you already have a better one from drops or quests. Besides that though im just asking i started a captain do i go weaponsmith, or metalsmith with him? because at the moment im confused about the pace of the game, im leveling too fast to be able to use the items i craft.
Comments
i have a level 12 champion and just started WS tonight. The FIRST sword i made (a bronze sword) is 5.0dps, better than anything i looted/quest so far, so i am not sure how the scaling works, and my friend is a lvl 12 ranger, her bow as a woodworker is also better than then the looted/quest ones, but crafting is defintely useful in this game (so far)
my experience with crafting in this game is to steer clear of it until max (or near max) level. it really drains both funds and time when crafting. dont get me wrong, crafting is great (farming ftw) but the time and money spent on it is better left to higher level players.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Most professions can make items useful to themselves up to maybe lvl10 but after that, it's best to sell what you make on the auction to lower level players and use the income to buy what you need.
The exception to this is Cooks who can reach GM quite easily at a low level, especially if you have an alt who is a farmer.
Hi, you quote farming is great, why so? I've given up on it because most things you create are absolutly useless (e.g., pipeweed)
Imho, the crafting in Lotro is disastrous.
1) The gear you craft is always worse than you can get by doing quests at your level. If you don't do anything just run around and gather resources to make some items, they will be worse than quest rewards. (Im talking about level 20+)
2) The crafting gear is fixed. You can't make unique items by adding varius dusts of something to make any combination of abilities. Every item is fixed.
3) Boring procedure. You go to table, set to make 100 of something, and then wait casting bar going from left to right and reset. No minigame, no interaction.
4) At the end-game, crafting items (jewels) are best items in game. But to make them you need to hit 35% chance. So basically you farm or buy material to make 10 attemps of engraved beryl rings (that might cost 40-60 gold depends on server, that takes like 30-40 hours to farm (with a speed of 1.5gold per hour). And then you rely on critical chance. If you miss, you end up with nothing, if you are lucky you make etched beryl ring that can sell for up to 20 gold. But you basically can farm 30 hours to be able to make 10 attempts for etched beryl rings. Then be unlucky during crafting. (no interaction as i said before), and lose everything.
It's stupid, it's useless, it's a waste of time. Easily the worse crafting system ever invented for a MMORPG, probably even worse than the one used in WoW.
REALITY CHECK
That is totally and completely incorrect, and has been proven many many times even on these boards. All my toons are using their own crafted gear, it is *consistently* better through all level ranges than quest or mob drops. (Yew bow for my Hunter, Skirmisher armor for my Burglar, lots of metalsmith cratted gear on my guardiian, and jewels made my minstrel on all of my toons).
It really looks like you're writing about something you have no clue about or experience of. Sorry.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Onion skins, juicy blackberry, and a lot of food needed for T5 cooking. At GM level, you can make a LOT of money from farming (especially if have a cooking prof alt as well),Hi, you quote farming is great, why so? I've given up on it because most things you create are absolutly useless (e.g., pipeweed)
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
That is totally and completely incorrect, and has been proven many many times even on these boards. All my toons are using their own crafted gear, it is *consistently* better through all level ranges than quest or mob drops. (Yew bow for my Hunter, Skirmisher armor for my Burglar, lots of metalsmith cratted gear on my guardiian, and jewels made my minstrel on all of my toons).
It really looks like you're writing about something you have no clue about or experience of. Sorry.
DB
...and u claim that crafted gear is fixed? That is so not true! Every tier of gear has an optional critical setting u can try for that adds extra stats to the item. On top of the mats required to make that item you can add 1 additional crit item that drops fairly regularly from mobs across the scope of the game. The crit item adds 44% extra chance to crit on the gear ur attempting to make and if u do u get the next teir color of that item with additional stats tacked on!
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
i have a lvl 12 and a lvl 14 and i agree with this guys post^^^. so far my best weapons and gear are crafted.
That is totally and completely incorrect, and has been proven many many times even on these boards. All my toons are using their own crafted gear, it is *consistently* better through all level ranges than quest or mob drops. (Yew bow for my Hunter, Skirmisher armor for my Burglar, lots of metalsmith cratted gear on my guardiian, and jewels made my minstrel on all of my toons).
It really looks like you're writing about something you have no clue about or experience of. Sorry.
DB
Right. So you say yew bow is better than most of the quest rewards for the minimum required level to wear yew bow? If you are not questing, or doing absolutely wrong and useless quest lines, it might be true. But there are at least 5 ranged weapons better for you at that level as a quest reward (from which 4 are soloable easily) If i find some time I get give you links to these bows. Because actually my 5th toon is a hunter, and the way the rewards are given vs crafted gear is still fresh in my memory.
And this goes for everything. For tailoring and armorsmithing especially. Weaponsmith might find some item useful for a level or two til he gets a better one.
Unless you craft the gear with your higher level toon, and crit the items for your alt, or you buy large piles of material with your character to get him to mastery before he outlevels it, you always find better gear from quests than craft.
In addition you didn't react to my other points which are:
REALITY CHECK
There is no better game than LOTRO i like it a lot.
WOW you play a lot, (five toons) for being a hater.
Everything I craft is better than most of my quested items, so crafting is rewarding for me. Seems like there are others that say the same while you are the only one that says it is bad.
Crafting is similar in every other MMO I have played. The illusion of a mini game is just that an illusion. Unless you are referring to a chance to fail, 50 tries for one skill point, and actually have to place the 9 componants required into the trade "mini game" one at a time and click craft 50 times for one skill up, yup that was fun.
WOW you play a lot, (five toons) for being a hater.
Everything I craft is better than most of my quested items, so crafting is rewarding for me. Seems like there are others that say the same while you are the only one that says it is bad.
Crafting is similar in every other MMO I have played. The illusion of a mini game is just that an illusion. Unless you are referring to a chance to fail, 50 tries for one skill point, and actually have to place the 9 componants required into the trade "mini game" one at a time and click craft 50 times for one skill up, yup that was fun.
Who told you I'm a hater. I enjoy Lotro almost as much as I enjoy DDo and VG. That doesn't mean I would enjoy every part of it. Crafting is the worst part of it. The devs admitted at release, crafting was rushed and they will focus on improving it next months. They did, but unfortunately not enough.I'm the only one that dislike crafting? Crafting is the most "disliked" feature of Lotro. Just read the official forums from time to time.
And really, just because you can't imagine a better crafting system (doesn't need to be a minigame) doesn't mean there isn't one. It's your imagination that is lacking or at least an experience with other system.
REALITY CHECK
Well you did, kinda, I mean how is crafting different from any other MMO out there. Like I and others have said we can actually make gear that we can use at the low levels, not some making gear that is only good for 10 levels ago.
And if I may quote you "In addition you didn't react to my other points which are:"
The main one is to lay out on the table (this forum) what exactly you would like to see in crafting, not some general statement like "it suxxs so make it better". Then allow others to debate the value of your vision in terms of what they would like to see and what they would NOT want. Be prepared for everyone not liking your ideas that is the natural way. And then if you idea merits more discussion and input encourage the dialogue.
Then when you can see that you have actually developed a consensus make recommendations to the developers.
Until then I will hold to my guns that the crafting is fun, I enjoy doing it because after 7 years of MMO's I can actually make stuff that I can use!!
I'm not a developer but think about this a simple dust system example.
At each tier you have an equivalently strong dust. Dust of agility, might, vitality, ... critical chance, tactical damage bonus, morale, power bonus, dps.
You find only basic recipes (recipe for yew bow let's say, and it only has a basic damage value with a speed). During crafting you could add one or more dusts and give the item an ability you want. Number of dusts that can be added would be limited. For example you could add two tier 2 dusts into one tier 3 item, or one tier 3 dust or three tier 1 dust. Yes it would require a bit more time to develop and balance as the one LOTRO has now, but surely would be better.
Just the simple fact that you are able to interact with the crafting, and craft your own unique items, with your own unique bonuses would give almost infinite number of different items, instead of having some silly fixed items, where 95% of them are useless, and 5% are better than anything else (etched jewelry, superb radiant cloack, ancient mirrored steel weapons).
I realize Turbine has limited resources and man-hours to develop their game. They decided to leave crafting on the end of development and focus on story and gameplay instead. I respect that decision, and I hope now they will focus a little more on crafting and bring new options into it. Plus balance the crafted items versus rewards.
And please realize this is a forum. You should not expect only highly sophisticated opinions to read here. I'm not gonna spend my time thinking about perfect crafting system I'm not payed for that. But I still can come up with things I dislike about crafting. And as you noticed even in my first post here. I actually offered an idea with the dust, and more balanced crafted items in compare to quest rewards.
REALITY CHECK
Actually you just did create a sophisticated opinion.
And it is nice food for thought, adds to possiblity as long as it can work with the lore.
Book 14 and the elven forge would be nice if they add some crafting alternatives with that.
Not to be rude or put your ideas down, but this sounds a lot like slotting to me, which is used in many other games right now. That does not mean it wouldn't work, but it is not necessarily cutting edge either. I do however like the idea of making is sorda like the traits where there are a lot of different options allowing character differentiation.
1
DB you are living in a fantasy world ,and you are also a fun boy ....
I like lotro but i dont try to make it be something which is not ,,, and crafting is just not
Try playing only one character , dont help it with your other characters , nor take a help from other people, and you will see that ,you will not be able to keep up with your crafting .
it does not matter how much you wish it ,new looted items will be always better then one you can craft ...
( I only managed to craft usefull items up to level 12 after that it was imposible to keep up)
dont get it wrong for this is not strictly true ,because mastercrafted items are better then looted ,, but because crafting is level based and you need to do quests in order to move onto next level it takes so much time , that till you can craft it , you are already to high level to use it and new looted items will be better
So why is this problem in lotro ; because they made Crafting level based and unlike in EQ2 you cant be just crafter....
so basicaly you can craft some great items but they will rarely be usefull to you ,unless you are already cupped and now all you can do is craft , In lotro its higher level s who create better crafted items for lower levels
so its not issue that crafted items are not better then looted its that you wull never be able to craft them for your current level ....
and now back to your case, what you are doing DB is that you are having lots of character and helping each other and grinding , your higher levels are getting row material for lower etc ... and obviously your higher level toon is also crafting for the lowbie one ....
remmember not everyone is into playing 100 characters and power leveling there are those casual players that only play 1 character and crafting is useless to them
So you are saying that in EQ2 you can craft and max your skills at level one? You don't have to farm a single item? You can safely get to every location in order to train and/or learn recipies? You can do all this on level one income, meaning you can make a profit with the first item you make?
So you are saying that in EQ2 you can craft and max your skills at level one? You don't have to farm a single item? You can safely get to every location in order to train and/or learn recipies? You can do all this on level one income, meaning you can make a profit with the first item you make?
No I am saying in EQ2 you don’t need to go to lone land and kill some elite dwarf level 25 in order to progress to tier 2 crafting ....there are no crafting quests its not level based
Meaning in Lotro in order to be able to kill that dwarf and get tier two crafting skills, you are forced to be an adventurer, otherwise you can’t kill that dwarf and thus neither you can progress in crafting
Whilst in EQ2 theoretically your crafter never needs to quest
But yes you still need row and recipes
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
DB you are living in a fantasy world ,and you are also a fun boy ....
I like lotro but i dont try to make it be something which is not ,,, and crafting is just not
Try playing only one character , dont help it with your other characters , nor take a help from other people, and you will see that ,you will not be able to keep up with your crafting .
it does not matter how much you wish it ,new looted items will be always better then one you can craft ...
( I only managed to craft usefull items up to level 12 after that it was imposible to keep up)
dont get it wrong for this is not strictly true ,because mastercrafted items are better then looted ,, but because crafting is level based and you need to do quests in order to move onto next level it takes so much time , that till you can craft it , you are already to high level to use it and new looted items will be better
So why is this problem in lotro ; because they made Crafting level based and unlike in EQ2 you cant be just crafter....
so basicaly you can craft some great items but they will rarely be usefull to you ,unless you are already cupped and now all you can do is craft , In lotro its higher level s who create better crafted items for lower levels
so its not issue that crafted items are not better then looted its that you wull never be able to craft them for your current level ....
and now back to your case, what you are doing DB is that you are having lots of character and helping each other and grinding , your higher levels are getting row material for lower etc ... and obviously your higher level toon is also crafting for the lowbie one ....
remmember not everyone is into playing 100 characters and power leveling there are those casual players that only play 1 character and crafting is useless to them
Well so far I haven't needed one iota of help from anyone in crafting and I'm coming up on Master Woodworker - so not much farther to go. I am only leveling one character, so the multiple characters argument doesn't necessarily work. And I have been able to use my own crafted items, more than once. So, not sure when what you're describing, in either case, actually happens. Maybe just a case of planning?
Also, your argument *seems* to be based on crafting so you can be totally self-reliant. Well, that never happens. You're always going to be depending on others - even people you don't know at times - for what you need. You're going to need gear, foods, potions, etc. made by other schools as you're progressing. Unless this is what you mean by "having multiple characters", so you don't have to buy from others. In that case, well, that's a choice you've made, not an imperative forced on you by the game.
Likely, you're going to be putting what you craft up on Auction House to sell at least from time to time - which is certainly benefitting you financially. I know I've made a good amount of money myself off my crafts.
I understand what you're getting at... I just think you're generalizing it a bit more than you might realize, specifically since I can see several situations where the way you portray it simply isn't the way it plays out.
As far as crafting being level-based and having to quest for certain levels.. meh... didn't phase me any personallyl. You're "leveling" a crafting skill regardless of how it's implemented. The quests so far have been easy enough to complete, and then they're done and over with.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Your point is not an issue .....
Its clear that mastercrafted items are better then looted
op issue is that you can never craf those items with the same character for his current level , looted items are always better.
Because adventurer and crafting leveling is inbalanced , it takes too long to level crafting tier and master it and once you can craft those items you are too high level to use it ..... AND THATS 100 % TRUE
but if i want to have those masttercrafted gear which we agree are better i am forced to buy it or have them crafted by my another higher level character
1. Class quests at level 15, and 30. Notably for hunters the bow/xbow you get at level 30 is better than anything you can craft or get till late 30s.
2. Odd items you can get from epic quests, during critical steps of the epic quests, notably book 3+, you got some incredibly powerful purple items (depending on your class and what you attributes you seek)
Actually at level 47 you can wear the last tier of craftable items which are generally as good everything you can find in the game, even when comparing with helegrod items.
So in LOTRo, craft items are not redundant.
Of course, as a first alt, you will have a hard time farming enough mats including the rares, to level up your crafting alongside your own level. That is another issue: how long are you willing to slow down your alt levelling to level up your crafting?
I craft pretty much everything.
I have a fleet of alts, more for the crafting skills than anything else.
Some VERY nice recipes drop in the wild. With mastery options, they can be made even better.
I disagree that crafting should be waited on until higher level. My highest toon is only 28, and I can craft weapons, armor, scrolls, oils, jewelry, etc for use by high 30-range toons. I've managed to advance my crafting on my alts at an even pace with their actual leveling, so that I always have great crafted gear for all of them.
Most quest rewards I end up selling, because my crafted gear is FAR better, and/or suited to each particular class. I craft agi stuff for my hunter, for example.
The crafting in this game really isn't bad, in fact, it's a lot of fun. It's a far cry from old-school SWG crafting to be sure, but still engaging, and rewarding.