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Everquest Community a Thing of the Past
Why was the EQ community so great?
It wasn't the game.
It was the players. Mostly early adopters had access to the Internet back then which came from a certain demographic, eg, nerds.
Today, everyone and their grandmothers has access to the Internet. Thus we have WoW's community.
I proprose that we'll never see another EQ type community again.
Same thing happened to Usenet. Usenet was fantastic back in the day, intelligent posts, helpful people, few flames. Today, Usenet is a cesspit.
I don't want to be elitist and in a lot of ways I like having a more representative community, more women for one, but something was lost.
Comments
Communities, close to what your describing, do still exist in certain games today, believe it or not.
Asheron's call for one (which came out the same year as EQ) is still around and although it has a much smaller population than EQ, you won't find a better, more tight knit community around (I'm speaking only of the regular pve servers of course).
I'm a self-proclaimed nerd myself :P, and I've never felt more at home. I'd even go as far as to say that I've enjoyed the community more in AC from my short time playing it than I did through my entire EQ career, which started back in 2000.
Ryzom is another fine example of a game with an excellent, helpful, and mostly adult community.
Anyway, my point is, they do still exist; you just have to find them
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Excellent post Fingis. That probably has a lot to do with the community problems today. Another factor is current MMO game mechanics. They do not facilitate the formation of friendships like EQ did at launch. Bonding can only happen taking the time to interact with one another. You simply don't get the opportunity in Vanguard or POBS because there is no down time to the game. Even current EQ is the same way with out-of-combat regen and potions, etc.
Until a game comes along that can both (1) interest players and (2) give them a real reason to take the time to type two letters (H and I), we will continue to see an utter vacuum in place of community.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
AMEN
DDO is the closest I've come since EQ to that sort of community. I group with a lot of different people, and they are usually always really nice, and chatty. Of course you do run into the unescapable asshat here or there, but for the most part DDO has a great community. In fact, I met someone in game who has now become a close friend of mine and my girlfriend. I met him on my first day of playing, and we've grouped ever since.
I also grouped last night with 2 couples and had a great time. Unfortunately once my girlfriend logged in our group was full, but we had a lot of fun chatting and questing.
There is great communities out there, just look away from mainstream games. Though the game aint very good, the community of Horizon is excellent compared to other games... ryzom... Eventide... also have plenty of helpfull people, heck even Eve that is relatively big compared to the others is good, though very cuthroat, its still nothing compared to the cesspool of mainsteam games. Just have to look around abit.
Bottomlines: The players where happy, they where believing in the game.
The day the players realize EQ was a raiding game, it was over. It happens progressively, cool players leaving, 1 by 1. We all have PnP experiences or other computer games experience, and never, at any moment, someone who was runing in Crushbone even think, conceive or consider raiding. The day raiding strikes these players is the day they quit...or remains while been unhappy.
The main problem is not an anti-nerds phobia, it is that these players are often unhappy in the game itself.
Happy players lead to better communities. Saga of Ryzom for example was a great community, because the players enjoy the game for what it was...and those who don't just quit right away for something "better". So why does players remains in a game which make them unhappy? That is something I can't answer, as when I am angry, I leave...usually with claymorous sounds and drama! :P
CoX, in game, has the best community I ever meet. Off-game(official forums), the CoX community is rude and totally nuts...but in-game, it is great. It is striking how different the community is in-game, from what it is on the official forums. CoX community was better than old EQ community.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Hmm that's a good point. Player happiness is not something I considered. I suppose I assumed that the people playing the game were happy to be there, but I had forgotten that there's a difference between being content and being happy.
But in a game that's fast approaching ten years old, I think contentedness is the best you could hope for in a community. I mean come on, TEN YEARS... Most people haven't had relationships that have lasted for that long! Playing something for that long doesn't make it a hobby, it makes it a part of your life - in fact for many players (including myself, once upon a time) this game IS your life.
I realize I'm babbling on like a lunatic so feel free to disregard anyhing I've said lol.
My biggest concern about this game is how it goes out of its way to divide players. Divide players by level range, by gear, by AA points, by your keys and flags, or quest progression, and of course, by guilds. Everquest was a wonderful leap for MMOs in terms of the experiences it offered, but it's golden age is past.
Ok enough drivel from me on this topic
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
See...I play PnP for more than 20 years...and the "community" is amazing, cause we really like it.
I experience games where players are not happy, even in PnP, and the "ambiance" is definitely down the drain, and they are significantly less nice. Some groups, the peoples where there just because they are bored or don't know what to do, the ambiance is definitely not as good as when it is a group which pick that hobby over other choices.
I know some peoples in many sports/hobbies, many are just amazing. 10 years? They are friendlier and nicer and happier than at start. I also know peoples who practice the sport/hobbie for wrong reason, the guy who is there for a good health and extremely piss to even be there, they are not the type I hang around. Always ready to be rude...hehehe.
See, not everyone quit when they should. And the devs try to maximise the chances someone remains when they should quit. It has, consequences, and a poor community and a worser ambiance is directly linked with this.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
And that is 100% the reason for lack of communty today when it was abundent in 99 with all games that were out.
I just had a thought. Death penalties and CR are crucial community builders. Even if they remove out of combat regen, players will still not take the proper time to rest (and hence, strike up conversations). As long as you have "SOME" chance of surviving, why not push the pace? If you die, just click and summon corpse. With a real death penalty, and required CR, players will take the proper time to rest and have more time for conversation and bonding.
In retrospect, at least one-half of my EQ enjoyment was conversing with other players. There was almost no conversing in Vanguard, which explains why it was, at best, half as fun.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Good point Arclan. In EQ it was imperative to rest or med up your mana. I remember sitting with 10 or 12 other people at the Freeport gates. Sadly, that's something todays player would never do. While sitting around medding you could chat with others and maybe strike up a friendship or a group. When games like WoW removed medding and the corpse run, it became go go go all the time. No need to stop, no need to chat.
EQ was and still is the best game that i have ever played.
But all the games from back then had excellent communities, UO, AC and DAOC all had a good community.
The reason is because these games forced you to interact with other players, thus forming bonds. You didnt HAVE to group in EQ but it was alot easier to group then solo. And even though i solo'd alot in EQ i still interacted with people. Downtime was a biggie because during those periods it got you talking to others. I actually built pretty decent friendships with people that i had never actually met.
Things like the EC Tunnel built community. It actually made trading a social activity, which the Bazaar KILLED!!!
Porting built community because in the early days of EQ there were always people sitting around a spire or ring waiting for a druid or wizzie who could Port them. I made friends and guildmates because i was a Druid and i would port often, sometimes i would spend nearly the whole time i was on just porting, and most often for free.
New games like WoW do not require you to interact with another human until end game. Everyone is soloing unless they need help with a quest, and then as soon as they finish the quest they are out. I cant even count the amount of times i happily helped out people with quest items in EQ, and especially epics when i knew that i would get nothing from the encounter.
There are nice people who play WoW but sadly they are the lesser group. In EQ you could always get a buff or help if you had to do a tough corpse run.
I have had people that i didnt know at all in EQ tell me while i was at the bank asking if i would do a bag swap for them. One time i said sure and while they were signing on their other character i took a look in the bag, it was full of some very high level expensive stuff. I didnt even know this guy but he trusted me not to just run off or play the linkdead game and keep his stuff.
I dont think you will find stuff like that happening in a MMO ever again. And it is very sad.
P.S. Everything is a timesink now. I hate the world TIMESINK so much now i want to virtually choke people when they type it. What you call timesink i call immersion and playing a game.
What was significant about Everquest was just how occupied its server boards were- it was pretty incredible. WoW realm boards seem to have barely any traffic at all. The EQ boards did have a lot of flaming on though, I think people were very loyal to their guilds.
Hello, I'm a newbie here, I came here just because I want to know more about EQ, because my classmates in my dormitory are playing this game.
Hello all,
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents on this topic becuase I agree with the majority of you that there is diffently something missing from todays MMO's that in my personal exp. EQ did better than any other game(at its beginnings). This missing element is socializing, but not just chit chat amongst players during downtime but the need to form groups and alliances with other players(i.e. guilds, kinships or clans whichever the case may be for the current MMO you may be playing).
The one thing I don't get about todays MMO's is why make a game in a genre thats first to words are Massively Multiplayer and then have the game be completely and in some cases just as easily soloable as it is to do with a group, until you reach the final lvl. Then require you to have 30 friends that you never met cuz you never had to join together and help one player accomplish his/her goal.
Games such as EQ required you to get out there and meet players almost from the start to advance on to the next lvl not just the "wham bam thanks for the quest and I 'm out" groups of today.
Furthermore who said that we needed our MMO to hold our hands while we crossed the street. Not everyone that plays MMO's are morons or 12, as a matter of fact i would be willing to wager most of us aren't. You are probably wondering where this one is going, well here it is. In EQ there were quests, i.e. the name of the game, but unlike WoW and even EQ2 you actually had to go look for them. There wasn't a big flashing arrow over the quest givers head or mini maps with flashing green dots on em to tell you "Quest this way". I for one found it and find it much more immersive and rewarding to actually accomplish something that you had to discover on your own.
Now don't get me wrong all you fans of the kiddie style MMO's that are out there today that have diluted the challenges to the game as much as possible without just making you lvl whatever right from the start, but I payed 9 something a month for more than a few years to play EQ and was even willing to shell out another 3 dollars a month when they raised sub. rates for more than a few more years for a total of way too many years and way tooooo much money(and thats not including all the money for the 1 million exspansions and 3-4 diffrent accts so I could play every class and race without deleting any lol). Will come back and revisit this post in 10 years or so and see how many of you are still shelling out the 12-20 bucks that it will cost to play WoW EQ2 or any of the other MMO's that will come and go from now til then. Their may be less of a grind involved now and faster gratification in gaining 5 lvls a min but you can ask anyone who played EQ from the start its way more satisfying to get the sword of 1000 truths when you really did have to kill a million boars and lose a years worthe of sleep to do it(as sad as that may sound.)
Oh and if your still reading this .... DING you have just reached lvl 2
your skills in run on sentences just got better (2)
your skill in mindless ranting just got better (2)
your ability to sit and read anything just got better (2)
btw i have nothing against WoW or any other MMO out there honestly. I have played just about all of em. I even have a lvl 60 pally on WoW and it tooking my a whole 4 months to do it lol.
mind you it took me 2 years to get my first lvl 50 druid on EQ.
I'm done now i swear ... but really good topic.
I would like to comment on this. EQ had amazing forums run by the players. Most servers had their own community forum and these forums were very active. In addition, you didn't run into many worthless threads/posts. Yes, you're absolutely correct about the flaming. There were many flames to be read, but flaming then was so much different than it is now. There were legitimate arguments to be made and the overwhelming majority did so in an intelligent and mature way.
I am by no means saying you didn't have your rejects, but everyone knew who they were and paid them no mind for the most part. They were needles in a hay stack, but the opposite is true in today's communities. You have a very select number of good characters active on the server forums. No clear assets to the communtiy as a whole. This is due, in no small part, to the fact that most don't put as much weight on their own reputations.
This also plays into the guild factor. Guilds used to be comprised of the same people over a very extended period of time. In many cases, until the guild disbanded. You didn't have instances where someone would leave and it wasn't a big deal. My initial thoughts on losing a guild member were based on who they were and not what they played. I, nor any of my guild leaders were in any particular hurry to replace them, as it felt like we were trying to replace family. This just isn't something you see now.
Honestly, I know of many old EQ guilds who still have active guild forums but have been spread out playing different games while they continue to wait for something to bring them back together like EQ. Even the old EQ guilds you may recognize in games like WoW are not comprised of the old EQ roster. Maybe a handful of their roster actually consists of original members.
One of the best things about EQ was the competion for raid mobs, back in the early days when naggy and vox would be killed within hours of the servers coming up. Guilds would all muster outside the dungeons and a big rush to get enough online to start clearing to the giants etc and claiming first shot at the dragon.
GOOD thread
I've been at it for over 5 years. Started Luclin plus or minus a week. Week before I THINK.
Compared to some of you - I can tell from your posts that some of you played release or just after it - I never saw the game that EQ WAS. It was VERY fun at Luclin tho. Always making friends. ALWAYS. EVERY DAY usually. Some I STILL know and talk to on the phone and email 5 years later. MOST are gone. Drifted away over the years.
It's funny sorta... I'm 44 years old and I've never in my life found any activity that so quickly fomented friendship with other human beings as EQ did when I first started playing over 5 years ago. No matter what website you make a post on about EQ and how great it used to be and how we wish we could find another, you ALWAYS get these WoWites coming back flaming us and putting us down and slamming EQ and it's players. These people will never know what a truly enjoyable online game is like.
MMO + Massively MULTIPLAYER Online
...
WHY do these game devs not understand what we are looking for???????????????
PEOPLE make MMOs fun, not drops or gear. Those are just numbers dropped into code. PEOPLE are what EQ has always been about for me. They are why I still play it. When my last friend logs off and doesn't come back I'll be gone
Thanks for a very nice thread. Brought a few smiles to my face
Qendiil - 70th Paladin of Tunare - 7th Hammer