everquest confuses me

aidan · July 2004

I'm unsure why SOE and a lot of Everquest fans keep proclaiming the first game to be "the most successful MMORPG in the world!" (it says this on the box at Best Buy)

Quite simply...that's a lie. If Everquest 2 lives up to the hype and is as successful as 1 and, blah blah, same stuff you've all heard...then it'll 3rd or 4th most successful. (Also, if it's as buggy as SWG on release, god save us all)

It seems as though SOE forgot about their own game, SWG, which passed everquests highest total several months ago. They also failed to notice that FFXI is waaaay past them. The BIGGEST blindspot however is a tiny little game in Korea called Lineage. I think several million paying customers far outshines the success of under half a million people, wouldn't you say?

Also, how buggy was EQ when it was released? (I never played, wasn't interested) I'm just looking to see what SOE's track record is like.

My story's a lot like yours. Only more interesting because it involves robots.

TaskyZZ · July 2004

It just depends on your definition and use of the word successful.

Does it say most subscribers ever?

Most money made ever?

What criteria are they using?

Alistair · July 2004

Numbers that SWG has surpassed EQ on individual accounts? Last I heard, SWG was WAY behind EQ...SWG would be pushed more if it was SOE's best seller.

Also numbers that FFXI has passed EQ, please? Last I heard, they were at just over half, and that was shortly after the PS2 release (this included japanese players). I could be wrong about both, but I haven't seen proof of these so I won't take it for truth until I see proof.

The original Lineage had just over 1 million people worldwide at its peak...no where near the millions you have mentioned. Did it beat EQ in overall numbers? Yes. Did it beat EQ in North Am and European accounts? No where near. It's a totally different type of game, and a game like EQ isn't successful in Asia, period. They're too fast paced for American games, the only reason Lineage did so well was the high level caps and then unique PvP aspects. Also, from the standpoint they take, EQ IS the most successful. While Lineage has seen declining numbers since the second wave of MMO's was introduced, EQ has had close to the same consumer turnover since about its 1 year mark.

EQ wasn't very buggy upon release. One of the biggest reasons SWG was so buggy is because fans WANTED it released and were sick of waiting. That's usually the #1 reason games are buggy upon release. Although the powers that be have become greedy, there still a major fault in the customer base for having little or no patience.

AHH! Run away from the monster! He's going to eat us!

Socializer 80% Explorer 73% Achiever 33% Killer 13%

aidan · July 2004

hrm, I couldn't find the link after a quick search, but I specifically remember FFXI topping 500K users (US + Japanese). And that was just before/just after the ps2 release so it may have gone up/down from there. I stopped playing and so stopped following it.

Also, I seem to remember an article mentioning the SWG had hit the 500K mark as well. And an article stating that EQ never hit 500K and has been waffling between 400-450K for several years.

I just fail to see the hype behind EQ2. After SWG, and planetside, I have little faith in SOE and a straight-forward bland-looking MMO like that just doesnt appeal very much.

Maybe I'll pick up the open beta and see if it's any good.

My story's a lot like yours. Only more interesting because it involves robots.

Maxxx · July 2004

Originally posted by Alistair

EQ wasn't very buggy upon release. One of the biggest reasons SWG was so buggy is because fans WANTED it released and were sick of waiting. That's usually the #1 reason games are buggy upon release. Although the powers that be have become greedy, there still a major fault in the customer base for having little or no patience.

umm SOE rushed the game... the FANS didn't want it released. because it was way to buggy
Get the facts right.

Maxxxi - Frostfell - Asherons Call 2

Cthulhuvong · July 2004

Originally posted by Maxxx

Originally posted by Alistair

EQ wasn't very buggy upon release. One of the biggest reasons SWG was so buggy is because fans WANTED it released and were sick of waiting. That's usually the #1 reason games are buggy upon release. Although the powers that be have become greedy, there still a major fault in the customer base for having little or no patience.

umm SOE rushed the game... the FANS didn't want it released. because it was way to buggy
Get the facts right.

Maxxxi - Frostfell - Asherons Call 2

Acctually, the fans and SOE management wanted it out, Beta testers and the Devs wanted to hold it for another 3 months and fix the bugs. Now we still slide when we sit

This link will show you the subscription numbers for a bunch of MMOs. It shows that FF XI did pass the 500k mark already. It doesn't have Lineage because he says its hard to find any numbers for asian MMOs that claim to have over a million users.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html

__________________________________
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server)

Games Tried:
Everquest (not a power gamer)
Earth and Beyond (kinda fun, kinda boring)
Planetside (rather play Counter-Strike)
Lineage 2 (see Everquest above, plus too many PKers and Bots)
Guild Wars [E3 trial] (Not too bad from what I saw, nothing very new though)
Eve Online (somewhat fun, somewhat repetetive)

bry223 · July 2004

Originally posted by aidan
I'm unsure why SOE and a lot of Everquest fans keep proclaiming the first game to be "the most successful MMORPG in the world!" (it says this on the box at Best Buy)
Quite simply...that's a lie. If Everquest 2 lives up to the hype and is as successful as 1 and, blah blah, same stuff you've all heard...then it'll 3rd or 4th most successful. (Also, if it's as buggy as SWG on release, god save us all)
It seems as though SOE forgot about their own game, SWG, which passed everquests highest total several months ago. They also failed to notice that FFXI is waaaay past them. The BIGGEST blindspot however is a tiny little game in Korea called Lineage. I think several million paying customers far outshines the success of under half a million people, wouldn't you say?
Also, how buggy was EQ when it was released? (I never played, wasn't interested) I'm just looking to see what SOE's track record is like.My story's a lot like yours. Only more interesting because it involves robots.

SWG isnt anywhere near EQ. FFXI does have a bigger subscription base then EQ, but then again the game is HUGE in Japan where most of its subscribers reside, and its available on 2 platforms, the PC & PS2.

Now I ask you this, out of all those games you mentioned, wich one has the biggest userbase in N America and Eruope? I'll give you a hint, it starts with the letter "E".

Coldmeat · July 2004

Asian MMO numbers are hard to gauge since frequently the games are played in cybercafes, unlike NA, where everyone has their own comp, and acct.

I think comparing user numbers between EQ which has been around 5 or so years, as opposed to FFXI, or SWG which have been around only a year or two is a faulty comparison. And taking EQ's numbers at the 1 or 2 year mark is also going to be flawed, as there are more people playing MMO's now than there was back then. Regardless of who has bigger numbers, or this,whatever else all the fanbois love to argue over, Everquest was a groundbraking game when it came out, and the sheer number of copycats, and the fact that it's still very popular today, no matter how much people bitch, and say it sucks, is a fine testament to just how successfull it is.

Now whether or not that popularity will transfer to EQ2 is an interesting question. I don't think it will, frankly. For many of the 'old school' MMO people, Everquest was their first MMO, and certainly their first 3d one. I think alot of people remember the reaction they had when they first played EQ, and think that EQ2 will recapture that. Maybe I'm just jaded, but of all the MMOs I've played since EQ, none have ever recaptured that... awe that I felt when I first played EQ.

-------
I was never what you wanted, I could never never please.
I swallowed all our sorrow in the midst of my disease.
All my fortunes, all my gains, all the battles I have won...
Now collapsing like the rain, I stand alone, your only son...

Take some solace in these words, take notice of this place.
Hollow whispers that they are, like the wind upon my face.
Sing softly in my ear and look at me with wonder.
I will try to ease your fear as the darkness pulls you under.

Unknown · July 2004

Originally posted by aidan
I'm unsure why SOE and a lot of Everquest fans keep proclaiming the first game to be "the most successful MMORPG in the world!" (it says this on the box at Best Buy)

Re-read what you posted. EQ is the FIRST GAME to be the most successful MMORPG in the world. This is 100% T-R-U-E. UO came out before EQ. UO had roughly 200,000 accounts before its experimental PvP feature almost killed it. EQ passed the 200k mark thus become the most successful MMORPG. AC has at most had 100,000 accounts. Lineage is another, very, unique story. Lineage for a long time was the ONLY MMORPG Koreans could play. Plus Korea leads the world in terms of computer access to the masses because of "PC Bangs". Anyone in Korea who is poor, a student, on a tight budget, now has access to a high end computer, 24hrs a day. With many major games already uploaded. That is why Lineage is another story.

Quite simply...that's a lie. If Everquest 2 lives up to the hype and is as successful as 1 and, blah blah, same stuff you've all heard...then it'll 3rd or 4th most successful. (Also, if it's as buggy as SWG on release, god save us all)

Hype is hype. To quote a famous Political Rap Group - "Don't Believe the Hype!!!". EQ, SWG, EQ2 are all made by the same parent company. Thus it does not matter which one is "tops" or more successful than the other. ALL EQ2 has to do is get 100,000 accounts and it will have met the industry standard for being a success. EQ, and SWG have met the industry standard of a successful MMORPG, and thus both are successes.

BTW, SWG was playable at release. It had bugs yes, but it was 80% playable. Compare to AO, AC2, WW2Online which had far, far, worse releases than SWG. AO was 95% unplayable during its first months of release. Unplayable!

It seems as though SOE forgot about their own game, SWG, which passed everquests highest total several months ago. They also failed to notice that FFXI is waaaay past them. The BIGGEST blindspot however is a tiny little game in Korea called Lineage. I think several million paying customers far outshines the success of under half a million people, wouldn't you say?

Again, you need to do your homework:

1. SWG, EQ, EQ2, are all owned by the same parent company. EQ has roughly 400,000 accounts. SWG I know now claims to have 500,000 accounts. Realistically SWG actually has a solid 200,000 to 300,000 accounts. LucasArts/SONY is being too liberal with SWG's numbers. Either way, BOTH EQ and SWG are successful, and runaway successes. Both under the exact same company.

2. FFXI does NOT have millions of accounts. FFXI counts the number of characters. FFXI has roughly 200,000 to 300,000 accounts. It IS a success. Even a runaway success. EQ allows each player to make a solid 8 characters per server. EQ has over 20+ servers. Now imagine if EQ also counted the number of characters each player has? Next, FFXI forces players to make mules. 30% to 50% of all the player characters in FFXI are m-u-l-e-s to store items.

3. The skinny on Lineage:

- Lineage is a very, old game, with outdated graphics. Simular to UO meets AC. Korea for a long time (even now) is a country with an Isolationist policy. The Korean goverment, and country has a very Anti-American feeling and mood. Which is still present. Ask any American who is/was/has been stationed in Korea. American soldiers are discouraged from leaving their bases. Thus very few American games, companies, products, are allowed to be sold to the masses in Korea. And even if they were allowed to be sold, if they start to be ultra-successful, not good in the eyes of the goverment.

- Korea as a country leads the entire world in having computer access to the masses. They have what translate into the English language what are PC Bangs. Huge, monster, buildings the size of city blocks filled with hundreds, and hundreds, of computers. Open 24hours a day. Anyone who does not have a computer, cannot afford a computer, has no space at home for a computer, can use a decent computer, (they've been modernizing now), to even a high-level computer. With every major game already uploaded. There are CD Key cracks so customers do not even have to buy most of the games.

So you have an isolationist minded country. That is anti-American. With computer access available to the masses. Of course any MMORPG game made by a Korean company will succeed. Lineage exists in a semi-vacume market. Add the fact EQ, and just about every major MMORPG has never taken the Asian market seriously. No aggresive advertising, etc. Last, Lineage has tried to market their game to Europe, and America, to the "western market." Lineage has each time miserably failed. Because generally, Lineage is a worse game overall than EQ, AC, UO, and all the modern MMORPGs. There is nothing special about Lineage. Nothing unique that Lineage has that is revolutionary, that other MMORPGs do not have. The PvP features it has were in UO before Lineage had them. The reason they still work in Lineage and no longer work in UO, is because of Asian culutre differences vs mostly American culture differences. (Look up the case of a Lineage player who got killed in real life by a guild in Lineage.)

It is like saying Japanese rice farmers are sooo successful. LOL! They are not successful! They sell their rice in a vacume market. Since rice from America is over-regulated, and sometimes even not allowed to be sold in Japan.

BTW, many newer Korean immigrants to America are starting to open PC Bangs in America. There is a HUGE one in New York City, in Queens. It has over 800 computers. Very few Americans know about it. You either have to know an Asian, or be Asian, to get word about them, where they are, etc... There is also one on 32nd street in Manhattan. Between Broadway, and 5th Ave. It is on the 5th floor and is almost 24hours, it closes at 2 AM. Many gamers from the Tri-State area (NJ, PA, CT, as well as Mass, VT, NH, and upstate NY) come to the PC Bangs in NYC to play. They have Lan parties, etc...

There is a famous one on Astor Place in lower Manhattan. It was the site for the USA World Cybor Games. The best American gamers played for thousands of dollars in cash. The best of the best went on to Korea to play vs the best gamers in the entire world for even bigger prizes.

Also, how buggy was EQ when it was released? (I never played, wasn't interested) I'm just looking to see what SOE's track record is like.

My story's a lot like yours. Only more interesting because it involves robots.

EQ has a different DEV team than SWG. Different than EQ2. Whatever track record EQ has that is good or bad, has little to do with SWG, or EQ2, or PS, or any other SONY online game. Unless at the official site they list the exact SAME names working on EQ and on any other game.

Based on what veteran EQ players have posted, and said to me, EQ had a nice release. It was roughly 90% to 95% playable. Sooo many players signed up for EQ that the internet went down in the San Diego, CA area for awhile. EQ almost instantly got 50,000 accounts after releasing. Within 1 year after release it was headed for 100,000 accounts. And still kept growing. If EQ had been too buggy to play there is no way it would have kept so many players, and kept growing.

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aidan · July 2004

hrm. I just feel like you missed my point xplororor.

I wasn't arguing which game was better/worse/etc. The box didn't claim to be the "best, most well-rounded, longest-running MMO", it claimed the "most successful MMO in the world." And that's what bothered me. It wasn't. And isn't.

You're numbers on FFXI are wrong. 1) one of the other guys posted a link to back me up, It's over 500K ACCOUNTS. 2) You've never played FFXI, counting characters works because they make you pay for every single character you make. (I very much disliked that part...)

How does a company like NCSoft that hits pay-dirt in Korea because they knew what/how to create/market their game disqualify them?

Oh well, I'm just not an EQ fan. Is there any specific reason why I should bother looking at EQ2? I just don't think it's going to be worth the $50. None of the videos I've seen for it have looked intriguing in the least. I'll admit I haven't perused their website hardly at all, so I know almost nothing about it. Personally I'm excited about WoW If there is a company that I have absolute faith in, it's Blizzard.

I still can't believe the guy who in his review said that WoW was going to "be like every other game Blizzard's ever released, a buggy piece of crap." Hehe, that's one of the most blatantly untrue statements I've ever heard...er, read.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My story's a lot like yours. Only more interesting because it involves robots.

Techpriest · August 2004

They keep saying it because it is true, hands down.

Look at the chart again. Look at the EQ line, now color in all the area below it. Every game disappears but three. Look at FFXI and color it in, while taller, it is pretty thin and can't compare to the block of color EQ has. PlanetSide is longer, but not very tall. Look at UO, while not a bad hill, it still is much smaller then the area EQ occupies.

I am sure EQ will not hold the title for long with the new games coming out and the games that are multi-platform having so many members, but right now nothing can beat EQ for total memberships billed.

Lineage is not the same kind of game. How can you compare everyone that has ever played Lineage, with people with a current account on EQ, or any other game? There are people dead and burried that Lineage counts as "account holders" still. Lineage will always grow and can't possibly shrink, even if everyone stops playing simply by the way they count.

Kunarick · August 2004

Originally posted by aidan

hrm, I couldn't find the link after a quick search, but I specifically remember FFXI topping 500K users (US + Japanese). And that was just before/just after the ps2 release so it may have gone up/down from there. I stopped playing and so stopped following it.
Also, I seem to remember an article mentioning the SWG had hit the 500K mark as well. And an article stating that EQ never hit 500K and has been waffling between 400-450K for several years.
I just fail to see the hype behind EQ2. After SWG, and planetside, I have little faith in SOE and a straight-forward bland-looking MMO like that just doesnt appeal very much.
Maybe I'll pick up the open beta and see if it's any good.

My story's a lot like yours. Only more interesting because it involves robots.

I just wanted to reply to this one, i haven't read any posts inbetween this one and my post, so i'm sorry if this has been said. But Eq1 had the most amount of subcribers EVER!!! They have had around 2 million subcribers, and the top they were at at one time is probly around 800k or so.

-----------------------------
The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!!

Bildgerat · August 2004

You're numbers on FFXI are wrong. 1) one of the other guys posted a link to back me up, It's over 500K ACCOUNTS. 2) You've never played FFXI,counting characters works because they make you pay for every single character you make. (I very much disliked that part...)

WOW that is one way to make your numbers increase and therefor have what looks like higher account numbers, I have over 15 charactors on EQ and only pay for one account, to count every charactor is not fair as if they did that and all the people that have 1- 20 charactors on EQ would skyrocket their numbers and have played from beta and This game is one of the best ever put out, when it was released it was the best MMORPS ever and its first year subscriptions proved that.

Bildgerat LiL'Pirate

diegofrgc · August 2004

Also numbers that FFXI has passed EQ, please? Last I heard, they were at just over half, and that was shortly after the PS2 release (this included japanese players). I could be wrong about both, but I haven't seen proof of these so I won't take it for truth until I see proof.

Lol! FFXI has more users than EQ, everyone knows that!!!!

EQ is loosing players dramatically since Fall 03

BTW SOE is a lier (true)

Say no to the monopoly!

jk

PS= DAoC took about 100k of EQ and UO players

Unknown · August 2004

Originally posted by aidan
hrm. I just feel like you missed my point xplororor.

I wasn't arguing which game was better/worse/etc. The box didn't claim to be the "best, most well-rounded, longest-running MMO", it claimed the "most successful MMO in the world." And that's what bothered me. It wasn't. And isn't.

   I told you why EQ can claim its success. The only example you can list to "challenge" EQ's claim is FFXI. I then went into specific, numerical detail, why FFXI is a very unique case.

You're numbers on FFXI are wrong. 1) one of the other guys posted a link to back me up, It's over 500K ACCOUNTS.

   - Again, FFXI counts the number of characters, not the number of players. There are no accounts with many characters per account like in other MMORPGs. What if EQ also counted the number of characters a player has?

- FFXI has limited storage. Players are forced to make mule characters. TONS of mule characters. The longer a player plays FFXI, the more mules they are forced to make. Then factor in regular multiple characters a player will make to try out other races/professions/classes etc... etc... Thus FFXI has roughly 200,000 to 300,000 individuale players. It is still a hit, successful MMORPG.

2) You've never played FFXI,

No I have not. Nor am I intrested at the moment. Maybe after I try EQ2 then I might check it out. BUT I can still find out information on it from current players of FFXI who post about it. And the fact is...... FFXI counts each character. Unlike EQ which does not count each character. BTW, have you ever played EQ?

counting characters works because they make you pay for every single character you make. (I very much disliked that part...)

No it does not. FFXI says they have over 1 million players. They do not. They have roughly 200,000 to 300,000 players who are forced to make mules the longer they play.

The game itself is out of Korea. Korea is a land where the goverment has an isolationist attituded. And a very Anti-American attitude. Very little chance for FFXI to face any competition.

Korea also has cheap, easy, 24hour computer access to more of the population, than any other country in the entire world. PC Bangs baby!

How does a company like NCSoft that hits pay-dirt in Korea because they knew what/how to create/market their game disqualify them?

   *sigh* NC Soft did not hit paydirt. They did not "market" their game the same way Japanese rice companies do not have to "market" their rice. FFXI exist in a semi-vacume in Korea. The Korean goverment, and Korean culture itself, is very Anti-American, and also has an isolationist politcial view towards "outsiders". In Korea NC Soft does not have to compeate vs Variant, Funcom, Turbine, EA, or any other non-Korean game company.... because other non-Korean game companies are not allowed to compeate.

Need more proof? The fact that FFXI has failed miserably when it TWICE was marketed to Europe and America. Vs the competition in an open market FFXI is a failure.

Oh well, I'm just not an EQ fan. Is there any specific reason why I should bother looking at EQ2? I just don't think it's going to be worth the $50. None of the videos I've seen for it have looked intriguing in the least. I'll admit I haven't perused their website hardly at all, so I know almost nothing about it. Personally I'm excited about WoW If there is a company that I have absolute faith in, it's Blizzard.

   If you are a true gamer you will check out WoW for yourself. You will also check out EQ2 for yourself. Do not go by what I say, or anyone else says. Wait for both games to get released, and actually play them and see if they meet your personal playstyle. BTW I am also a fan of Blizzard and intend to check out WoW when it gets released. I also had fun in EQ so I will also check out EQ2 when it gets released.

I still can't believe the guy who in his review said that WoW was going to "be like every other game Blizzard's ever released, a buggy piece of crap."   Hehe, that's one of the most blatantly untrue statements I've ever heard...er, read.

It is all hype. No one can comment on WoW, EQ2, GW, or any game not yet released in its completed form. All everyone is doing now is speculationg, and hyping, and more hyping. I don't believe anything anyone is writting about WoW, EQ2, GW, or any game that is not released yet. Take everything everyone is saying "with a grain of salt" as the popular saying goes. Play the games yourself and see for yourself if you like them, what you like in them, what you yourself dislike in them..... etc.

Back to the main subject. EQ compeats in a world wide market. EQ does NOT exist in a vacume. FFXI exists in a vacume, compeats vs no competition in Korea. It also counts each character, while EQ does NOT count each character. BOTH games are successful. Play whichever one you like. Do not worry about EQ's claim as being the most successful MMORPG in the world if you are having fun playing FFXI.

=========================
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More games:
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EVE Online !!!
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DAoC (coming soon)
---------------------------

hercules · August 2004

Originally posted by aidan

I'm unsure why SOE and a lot of Everquest fans keep proclaiming the first game to be "the most successful MMORPG in the world!" (it says this on the box at Best Buy)
Quite simply...that's a lie. If Everquest 2 lives up to the hype and is as successful as 1 and, blah blah, same stuff you've all heard...then it'll 3rd or 4th most successful. (Also, if it's as buggy as SWG on release, god save us all)
It seems as though SOE forgot about their own game, SWG, which passed everquests highest total several months ago. They also failed to notice that FFXI is waaaay past them. The BIGGEST blindspot however is a tiny little game in Korea called Lineage. I think several million paying customers far outshines the success of under half a million people, wouldn't you say?
Also, how buggy was EQ when it was released? (I never played, wasn't interested) I'm just looking to see what SOE's track record is like.

My story's a lot like yours. Only more interesting because it involves robots.

Well SWG never passed the 300,000 mark according to last surveys done.

However,you are right lineage and FFXI has more accounts then everquest worldwide.

I think even lineage 2 has passed the 600,000 mark.

So its certainly not the most popular mmorpg in the world.

But it might be the most popular mmorpg in NA/europe.However,the asain market is really really huge and most likely bigger then the NA/europe market for mmorpg.And lineage is like a cult there thus it should hold the title for most popular mmorpg in the world.

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