Let me first out by saying I told a lot of people about 4 or 5 months ago that the graphics of this game would not be WOW quality, and they would need to upgrade there 5-6 year old emachines to run this game when it was complete.
On a note it was kinda idiotic to think that the game would be releasing in it's dull unfinished coloring scheme (that again a bunch of whining ,non computer upgrading folks are use to). I'm very glad that Mr. Grimsby put this out for all to see, and hope a bunch of people can now wake up and smell the upgrade their video card coffee.
For those of you saying that the content quality of a game will be gone due to the graphics being top notch or even dx 10 compatible at release you are talking out the side of your necks (Vanguard was a pack of lies from the beginning).
I have read somewhere (and I hope I am not breaking any NDAs here) that the beta client is locked at low settings graphics, that is why there is such difference between the official footage and the leaks. This of course does not affect animations and other stuff mentioned above, but can explain some blandness of the graphics.
It will be no contest on what MMO does better. More people can play WAR decently=more subs it s that simple. I honestly never understood why people get so worked up over graphics. I agree really bad graphics isn t great but saying WAR s are bad is odd to me. Its a fantasy world not Real Life why such a big deal? Besides i would rather play a game with friends that can t afford a super new comp.
I personally like to hold off on making "fact" statements before.. they happen.
I think it would be easier to say one might have more box sales than the other.
Just because a game will run on the computer you have does not equate to a subscription. Why? You might decide the game sucks.
The ability for a game to look very good also does not equate to bad performance. There are many well FPS games are a good example there. You can turn on all the candy and have a good looking game. Yet when you are actually fighting you turn all of that off.
Regardless... if AoC is pushing tons of polygons.. its obviously going to choke older systems.
But.. that still doesn't mean that WAR will have more subscribers. Which is why I think your statement is a tad odd.
Let's at least let the game release and see how it does.
Oh and yes I suppose I'm not exactly a fan of Mythic in recent years. I just think what I said is fairly well covered under the "common sense" clause.
*runs off* back to beta. (sorry its not a nda breach for anyone that is unaware... we can say we're in it).
It will be no contest on what MMO does better. More people can play WAR decently=more subs it s that simple. I honestly never understood why people get so worked up over graphics. I agree really bad graphics isn t great but saying WAR s are bad is odd to me. Its a fantasy world not Real Life why such a big deal? Besides i would rather play a game with friends that can t afford a super new comp.
I personally like to hold off on making "fact" statements before.. they happen.
I think it would be easier to say one might have more box sales than the other.
Just because a game will run on the computer you have does not equate to a subscription. Why? You might decide the game sucks.
The ability for a game to look very good also does not equate to bad performance. There are many well FPS games are a good example there. You can turn on all the candy and have a good looking game. Yet when you are actually fighting you turn all of that off.
Regardless... if AoC is pushing tons of polygons.. its obviously going to choke older systems.
But.. that still doesn't mean that WAR will have more subscribers. Which is why I think your statement is a tad odd.
Let's at least let the game release and see how it does.
Oh and yes I suppose I'm not exactly a fan of Mythic in recent years. I just think what I said is fairly well covered under the "common sense" clause.
*runs off* back to beta. (sorry its not a nda breach for anyone that is unaware... we can say we're in it).
Agreed to a point. I will say though it s simple if there are more computers that can run game A then game B it will be more popular just due to the fact it can be run by more people. Also both games will not be crap. That said I feel WAR will have more subs. If you think both games or 1 will tank then thats your opinion but IMO i will say that WAR will have more subs no contest. Bottom line it s a smarter business move to be more accessible to more people. I will guarentee WAR won t be crap. Won t say more but i can say i ve seen it with my own eyes
Oh my gosh, lol i just read all the posts after the one i made making the starcraft comparison and jeez...so many whiners! Heck, you dont even have to wait until the game releases, I'm sure alot of you will be in open/closed betas and figure it out for yourself. The graphics really shouldnt be an issue at all right now. period
I expect the game to launch looking how it does now and if it does then all of the WOW crowd will stay with WOW and this game willl just attract DAOC fans.
there still trying to balance the graphics i think not sure but Warhammer has been around for like 25 years so the fans it will love it will play it and beside if they bring the graphics down a bit it makes it a bigger market for them which mean more income and hopefully they will spend some of it on the game maybe even update the graphics here and there u never know till it in final
I expect the game to launch looking how it does now and if it does then all of the WOW crowd will stay with WOW and this game willl just attract DAOC fans.
A BIG AMEN to that .... let the WoW crowd stay exactly where they are -> more honor/more badges/more gear/more resi or whatever the new grind of the day is.
WoW really has it pros... PvP and it's community are certainly not one of them.
It will be no contest on what MMO does better. More people can play WAR decently=more subs it s that simple. I honestly never understood why people get so worked up over graphics. I agree really bad graphics isn t great but saying WAR s are bad is odd to me. Its a fantasy world not Real Life why such a big deal? Besides i would rather play a game with friends that can t afford a super new comp.
I personally like to hold off on making "fact" statements before.. they happen.
I think it would be easier to say one might have more box sales than the other.
Just because a game will run on the computer you have does not equate to a subscription. Why? You might decide the game sucks.
The ability for a game to look very good also does not equate to bad performance. There are many well FPS games are a good example there. You can turn on all the candy and have a good looking game. Yet when you are actually fighting you turn all of that off.
Regardless... if AoC is pushing tons of polygons.. its obviously going to choke older systems.
But.. that still doesn't mean that WAR will have more subscribers. Which is why I think your statement is a tad odd.
Let's at least let the game release and see how it does.
Oh and yes I suppose I'm not exactly a fan of Mythic in recent years. I just think what I said is fairly well covered under the "common sense" clause.
*runs off* back to beta. (sorry its not a nda breach for anyone that is unaware... we can say we're in it).
I think the point is that MMOs live and die by their launch. So it is doubtful any MMO will be launching with what is considered to be next-gen graphics until the average player has a system that can support them. These games can limit their client bases on launch day only so much before they begin jeopardizing all of their work for the sake of something that looks pretty.
My question remains; why have they showed their bad stuff instead of the good one? They've probably managed to scare away quite a lot of people already with this, and it's not likely that these will be easily won back with a simple post on the Warhammer alliance forums.
Finally! Someone that understands that MYTHIC ISN'T SHOWING THEIR BEST STUFF IN THE VIDS! I'm not sure why they're doing it, except maybe to amaze everyone prior to release when they show how great the graphics REALLY are.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I know for me, I don't care if a games got the graphics of Atari Pong...if they game is fun, then the game is fun....graphics/animations can ADD to the enjoyment...but I'm looking to play a game....the GAME is what is key.
Animations are the leather seats in an already great car.
even after all that, they shouldn't be buggy...I'm sure they'll get fixed...heck they've got mote time to fix it now.
I know for me, I don't care if a games got the graphics of Atari Pong...if they game is fun, then the game is fun....graphics/animations can ADD to the enjoyment...but I'm looking to play a game....the GAME is what is key.
Animations are the leather seats in an already great car.
even after all that, they shouldn't be buggy...I'm sure they'll get fixed...heck they've got mote time to fix it now.
Amen bro! ... god I kinda miss Pong lol
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Why cant we have good gameplay AND good graphics? It's not such a hard thing to do really. If you've got talented leads and good artists, engineers and coders. It's not just screenshots that don't look so good, both with the 'lightning engine' and without it. But video as well. Even 'official video' that shows off areas of the game looks.. frankly like it belongs in a game from 2004. Even worse in some cases. Gameplay movies they just look terrible IMHO. I don't really buy the 'it's a work in progress' argument. I'm glad they are giving it a bit of attention and acknowledge that it needs work. But other MMOGs out there have also been a work in progress graphically and have looked fantastic for years, but just have looked better an better over the development process. If your graphics engine looks 'eh' from 6 months to launch, it's not gonna look 'drool!' upon release, I'm sorry. In many terms gameplay does trump graphics. But in this day and age, graphics are almost as important to far to many people. If your graphics aren't 'top tier' you best have amazing Art Direction (ala WoW) or your in trouble.
I'll, as always, keep a 'wait and see' attitude about the game. But everything I've seen lately in 'combat videos' from graphics to animations to sound fx, it makes me realize this game needs a LOT more work, cause it's looking rather 'b quality' right now.
Why cant we have good gameplay AND good graphics?
Its quite simple really.
MMOs are games that are as good as the amount of the people playing them.
Higher graphic requirements mean less people playing.
Lower graphic requirements mean more people playing AND company tries to compensate for poor looks by GREAT gameplay.
there still trying to balance the graphics i think not sure but Warhammer has been around for like 25 years so the fans it will love it will play it and beside if they bring the graphics down a bit it makes it a bigger market for them which mean more income and hopefully they will spend some of it on the game maybe even update the graphics here and there u never know till it in final
There are a lot of Star Wars fans not playing SWG, so having a fanbase does not necessarily mean the fans will love and play the game. I agree with the rest of your post though
there still trying to balance the graphics i think not sure but Warhammer has been around for like 25 years so the fans it will love it will play it and beside if they bring the graphics down a bit it makes it a bigger market for them which mean more income and hopefully they will spend some of it on the game maybe even update the graphics here and there u never know till it in final
There are a lot of Star Wars fans not playing SWG, so having a fanbase does not necessarily mean the fans will love and play the game. I agree with the rest of your post though
yeah but SW got all jacked up at least in the war as far as i know there staying as true as possable to it but other then that your prefectly right
Anyone remember Vanguard? I played at launch and on one hand I kept saying this game looks amazing and I took dozens of screen shots. Then I had to quit because the moment another player came within 12 yards the game froze up and the FPS dropped to 16 or something just as bad. I waited 2 months and the lag was still horrific. My point is if a game looks amazing and you play in lag 24/7 then it will fail. I read a preview on AoC recently and they said it looked amazing but lag hit a bit too much. I want both games to succeed but I fear AoC is another Vanguard. If WAR runs well on 'good' graghics it will be around for years.
And having an existing fan base of millions does help.
People these days have forgotten what games are all about. Its about having fun. Not how realistic it looks like. Its a game, and games arnt supposed to look as realistic as possible. If you want to se something realistic and beautyful, go out and take a walk and watch the nature around you. Games are ment to be fun, and not realistic.
I just hope the RvR will be great. ^^ I never tried DAoC, so havnt even been in one before. But what I have heard and read from friends and people. I cant wait. =D
.......very well said!
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there, 80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters. Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior, and he will bring the others home. -Heraclitus 500BC
Animations need huge amount of work. Envrioment can be changed with few extra lighting but the animations can't - So far its some of the wors animation system I've seen in MMO released in past 2-3 years. It just looks... CRAP. Its like playing DAOC all over again with every character and mob having 3 basic animations and then some magic effect going over it. Now .. this is 2008. We want our abilites to look great when casting them. If WAR gets the animations right and they feel natural and responsive then nothing can stop the game. If they fail with this basic element then its another avarage game. It doesn't matter how the MMORPG system is - as long as the gameplay is not fun and your not feeling like your actually playing a game - then its all for nothing. And in modern games - animations is the key to succsessfull gaming.
ATleast try reading Cabe's post before repeating pointless drivel AlanOn they're aware of the issues with the very things you mentioned and you know what...they're working on it / fixed almost all the issues you keep whining about. This is why after all the game is in BETA
Lord baby Jesus is crying! STOP MAKING HIM CRY!
I read the entire article, it said nothing about the animations being crappy...with that said, stop being sch a fanboy and learn the definition of the word "animation" as opposed to the word "graphics"
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Animations need huge amount of work. Envrioment can be changed with few extra lighting but the animations can't - So far its some of the wors animation system I've seen in MMO released in past 2-3 years. It just looks... CRAP. Its like playing DAOC all over again with every character and mob having 3 basic animations and then some magic effect going over it. Now .. this is 2008. We want our abilites to look great when casting them. If WAR gets the animations right and they feel natural and responsive then nothing can stop the game. If they fail with this basic element then its another avarage game. It doesn't matter how the MMORPG system is - as long as the gameplay is not fun and your not feeling like your actually playing a game - then its all for nothing. And in modern games - animations is the key to succsessfull gaming.
ATleast try reading Cabe's post before repeating pointless drivel AlanOn they're aware of the issues with the very things you mentioned and you know what...they're working on it / fixed almost all the issues you keep whining about. This is why after all the game is in BETA
Lord baby Jesus is crying! STOP MAKING HIM CRY!
I read the entire article, it said nothing about the animations being crappy...with that said, stop being sch a fanboy and learn the definition of the word "animation" as opposed to the word "graphics"
I don't get these Animations are crappy kick people are on lately. Everyone says how great WoW's animations are but the games are not the same. WoW's Animations are like cartoon animations. Like Bugs Bunny. Alot of these other games are going for more realistic animations.
How can you honestly compare the two?
It would be like saying that Pixar's Animations are way better then any Anime. It isn't that they are way better it is what you prefer and what style you like more. I personally love western Cartoon animation in movies way more then Anime (which I don't really like) but I do like the animation style of games like LOTRO and it looks to be WAR as well more so then World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft's animations come off way to cartoonish to me.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I have read somewhere (and I hope I am not breaking any NDAs here) that the beta client is locked at low settings graphics, that is why there is such difference between the official footage and the leaks. This of course does not affect animations and other stuff mentioned above, but can explain some blandness of the graphics.
Did anyone actually read his post? If not please refer to it above and go sit back into your corner. ( I also heard somewhere that mythic has 2 clients one that the beta testers play that is with average to low graphics and a second one that they are working on and has very good graphics )
It wouldn't surprise me if they released the game without top notch graphics. There were several instances that I know of where over a thousand people participated in one RvR zone during my time in DAoC. It was laggy and rather choppy but still playable and I believe it is partly due to low graphics. I'm no expert in this area but it seems pretty logical.
RvR isn't RvR if there isn't some massive zerging from time to time and by the looks of it the capital city sieges will dwarf relic raids. I'm definitely willing to sacrifice graphical quality to get that sense of teamwork (or chaos) as a horde of players storm through the enemy gates.
Comments
Let me first out by saying I told a lot of people about 4 or 5 months ago that the graphics of this game would not be WOW quality, and they would need to upgrade there 5-6 year old emachines to run this game when it was complete.
On a note it was kinda idiotic to think that the game would be releasing in it's dull unfinished coloring scheme (that again a bunch of whining ,non computer upgrading folks are use to). I'm very glad that Mr. Grimsby put this out for all to see, and hope a bunch of people can now wake up and smell the upgrade their video card coffee.
For those of you saying that the content quality of a game will be gone due to the graphics being top notch or even dx 10 compatible at release you are talking out the side of your necks (Vanguard was a pack of lies from the beginning).
I have read somewhere (and I hope I am not breaking any NDAs here) that the beta client is locked at low settings graphics, that is why there is such difference between the official footage and the leaks. This of course does not affect animations and other stuff mentioned above, but can explain some blandness of the graphics.
Thanks for the post Cabe2323!
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I think it would be easier to say one might have more box sales than the other.
Just because a game will run on the computer you have does not equate to a subscription. Why? You might decide the game sucks.
The ability for a game to look very good also does not equate to bad performance. There are many well FPS games are a good example there. You can turn on all the candy and have a good looking game. Yet when you are actually fighting you turn all of that off.
Regardless... if AoC is pushing tons of polygons.. its obviously going to choke older systems.
But.. that still doesn't mean that WAR will have more subscribers. Which is why I think your statement is a tad odd.
Let's at least let the game release and see how it does.
Oh and yes I suppose I'm not exactly a fan of Mythic in recent years. I just think what I said is fairly well covered under the "common sense" clause.
*runs off* back to beta. (sorry its not a nda breach for anyone that is unaware... we can say we're in it).
I think it would be easier to say one might have more box sales than the other.
Just because a game will run on the computer you have does not equate to a subscription. Why? You might decide the game sucks.
The ability for a game to look very good also does not equate to bad performance. There are many well FPS games are a good example there. You can turn on all the candy and have a good looking game. Yet when you are actually fighting you turn all of that off.
Regardless... if AoC is pushing tons of polygons.. its obviously going to choke older systems.
But.. that still doesn't mean that WAR will have more subscribers. Which is why I think your statement is a tad odd.
Let's at least let the game release and see how it does.
Oh and yes I suppose I'm not exactly a fan of Mythic in recent years. I just think what I said is fairly well covered under the "common sense" clause.
*runs off* back to beta. (sorry its not a nda breach for anyone that is unaware... we can say we're in it).
Agreed to a point. I will say though it s simple if there are more computers that can run game A then game B it will be more popular just due to the fact it can be run by more people. Also both games will not be crap. That said I feel WAR will have more subs. If you think both games or 1 will tank then thats your opinion but IMO i will say that WAR will have more subs no contest. Bottom line it s a smarter business move to be more accessible to more people. I will guarentee WAR won t be crap. Won t say more but i can say i ve seen it with my own eyes
Oh my gosh, lol i just read all the posts after the one i made making the starcraft comparison and jeez...so many whiners! Heck, you dont even have to wait until the game releases, I'm sure alot of you will be in open/closed betas and figure it out for yourself. The graphics really shouldnt be an issue at all right now. period
I expect the game to launch looking how it does now and if it does then all of the WOW crowd will stay with WOW and this game willl just attract DAOC fans.
there still trying to balance the graphics i think not sure but Warhammer has been around for like 25 years so the fans it will love it will play it and beside if they bring the graphics down a bit it makes it a bigger market for them which mean more income and hopefully they will spend some of it on the game maybe even update the graphics here and there u never know till it in final
A BIG AMEN to that .... let the WoW crowd stay exactly where they are -> more honor/more badges/more gear/more resi or whatever the new grind of the day is.
WoW really has it pros... PvP and it's community are certainly not one of them.
I think it would be easier to say one might have more box sales than the other.
Just because a game will run on the computer you have does not equate to a subscription. Why? You might decide the game sucks.
The ability for a game to look very good also does not equate to bad performance. There are many well FPS games are a good example there. You can turn on all the candy and have a good looking game. Yet when you are actually fighting you turn all of that off.
Regardless... if AoC is pushing tons of polygons.. its obviously going to choke older systems.
But.. that still doesn't mean that WAR will have more subscribers. Which is why I think your statement is a tad odd.
Let's at least let the game release and see how it does.
Oh and yes I suppose I'm not exactly a fan of Mythic in recent years. I just think what I said is fairly well covered under the "common sense" clause.
*runs off* back to beta. (sorry its not a nda breach for anyone that is unaware... we can say we're in it).
I think the point is that MMOs live and die by their launch. So it is doubtful any MMO will be launching with what is considered to be next-gen graphics until the average player has a system that can support them. These games can limit their client bases on launch day only so much before they begin jeopardizing all of their work for the sake of something that looks pretty.
Games I've Played: WoW, FFXI, SWG, CoH, EVE Online
Games I'm Waiting for: WAR, Stargate Worlds
Finally! Someone that understands that MYTHIC ISN'T SHOWING THEIR BEST STUFF IN THE VIDS! I'm not sure why they're doing it, except maybe to amaze everyone prior to release when they show how great the graphics REALLY are.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I know for me, I don't care if a games got the graphics of Atari Pong...if they game is fun, then the game is fun....graphics/animations can ADD to the enjoyment...but I'm looking to play a game....the GAME is what is key.
Animations are the leather seats in an already great car.
even after all that, they shouldn't be buggy...I'm sure they'll get fixed...heck they've got mote time to fix it now.
I know for me, I don't care if a games got the graphics of Atari Pong...if they game is fun, then the game is fun....graphics/animations can ADD to the enjoyment...but I'm looking to play a game....the GAME is what is key.
Animations are the leather seats in an already great car.
even after all that, they shouldn't be buggy...I'm sure they'll get fixed...heck they've got mote time to fix it now.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
wow - I'm TYPO-Tastic!
Why cant we have good gameplay AND good graphics?
Its quite simple really.
MMOs are games that are as good as the amount of the people playing them.
Higher graphic requirements mean less people playing.
Lower graphic requirements mean more people playing AND company tries to compensate for poor looks by GREAT gameplay.
Excellent points
There are a lot of Star Wars fans not playing SWG, so having a fanbase does not necessarily mean the fans will love and play the game. I agree with the rest of your post thoughyeah but SW got all jacked up at least in the war as far as i know there staying as true as possable to it but other then that your prefectly right
Anyone remember Vanguard? I played at launch and on one hand I kept saying this game looks amazing and I took dozens of screen shots. Then I had to quit because the moment another player came within 12 yards the game froze up and the FPS dropped to 16 or something just as bad. I waited 2 months and the lag was still horrific. My point is if a game looks amazing and you play in lag 24/7 then it will fail. I read a preview on AoC recently and they said it looked amazing but lag hit a bit too much. I want both games to succeed but I fear AoC is another Vanguard. If WAR runs well on 'good' graghics it will be around for years.
And having an existing fan base of millions does help.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
ATleast try reading Cabe's post before repeating pointless drivel AlanOn they're aware of the issues with the very things you mentioned and you know what...they're working on it / fixed almost all the issues you keep whining about. This is why after all the game is in BETA
Lord baby Jesus is crying! STOP MAKING HIM CRY!
I read the entire article, it said nothing about the animations being crappy...with that said, stop being sch a fanboy and learn the definition of the word "animation" as opposed to the word "graphics"
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
ATleast try reading Cabe's post before repeating pointless drivel AlanOn they're aware of the issues with the very things you mentioned and you know what...they're working on it / fixed almost all the issues you keep whining about. This is why after all the game is in BETA
Lord baby Jesus is crying! STOP MAKING HIM CRY!
I read the entire article, it said nothing about the animations being crappy...with that said, stop being sch a fanboy and learn the definition of the word "animation" as opposed to the word "graphics"
I don't get these Animations are crappy kick people are on lately. Everyone says how great WoW's animations are but the games are not the same. WoW's Animations are like cartoon animations. Like Bugs Bunny. Alot of these other games are going for more realistic animations.How can you honestly compare the two?
It would be like saying that Pixar's Animations are way better then any Anime. It isn't that they are way better it is what you prefer and what style you like more. I personally love western Cartoon animation in movies way more then Anime (which I don't really like) but I do like the animation style of games like LOTRO and it looks to be WAR as well more so then World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft's animations come off way to cartoonish to me.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Did anyone actually read his post? If not please refer to it above and go sit back into your corner. ( I also heard somewhere that mythic has 2 clients one that the beta testers play that is with average to low graphics and a second one that they are working on and has very good graphics )
<---- Lazy
RvR isn't RvR if there isn't some massive zerging from time to time and by the looks of it the capital city sieges will dwarf relic raids. I'm definitely willing to sacrifice graphical quality to get that sense of teamwork (or chaos) as a horde of players storm through the enemy gates.