But I only like PvE-grouping and PvE-soloing...and MMO are kinda suckling for Powerplayers who enjoys these 2 aspects only. LotRO features raiding, this is a game killer, I can't even start the game.
Guess I will have to wait for a real MMO and play offlines games until such times comes.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Im Just kidding. LOL. I know what you mean about SWG forum. P.S. People ACTUALLY record their gameplay and put it on Youtube? I tryed to watch that video above but, with that game I cant even look at it Im so sick of it. Is it that the power of invulnerability isnt working or is nerfed or something?
It was nerfed multiples times.
They nerf it at I11 again.
With Mid Hero Designer, you see that even Fiery is a better tank then an invul. But Fiery has good self healing, +100% damage, damage aura, self rez. Electric also tank about much better but is has a recovery bonus, many endurance bonuses, psi resist, dark is also about as good while having interesting twists. Now Invul give ONLY DEFENSIVE STUFF (except a meager too hit buff), and it definitely should be almost as good as rock armor...yet is is weaker then many other sets. Heck, even sonic defenders have more resists. (don't nerf the fenders, boost invul where it should be)
The game is balanced for 1 vs 1 PvP. So a controller can hold a brute. But by doing so, they screw the PvE completely. Rock has a penalty too movement, thereby they are useless in PvP, so they are balanced appropriatedly for PvE. Invul should be at about the same level for PvE, but because they move well in PvP and are dangerous there, they are nerfed to a point they are good sport for 1 vs 1 PvP, with no regards whatsoever to PvE. Heck, when a fiery set with +100% damage tank as well, there is a big problem. And the problem is not the fiery one...but the invul which is way too weak. I don't care for PvP. I care for PvE grouping.
Just to give you a FAST idea.
Willpower 1st power (a level 1 character has that) = Invul 1st power + Invul 4th Power + Invul 6th Power + psi resist + 20% hps.... I mean...it took me 3 of my 24 powers, some of which as advance as my 6th power on a pool, to have less than a level 1 willpower? Willpower has a good regen, goor recovery, good acc debuff and much more...I should outank that by MUCH, I don't regen, I don't have recovery, I don't have debuff to enemy ACC...
And invul was 1 of the sets the most nerfed since the start of the game, and they just nerf the status resistance in I11 (althought I am not sure how, I know they did cause I am stunned now and I wasn't before, and the "unlucky comment" is BS, I play too much to not have been unlucky once in the past). Invul should be the 2nd best tanking set in the game at the very least, even rock give a damage aura! Atm, only an energy brute or an ice tanker is worser. This is bad...like very bad...considering that other sets give non-defensive bonuses...heck, even rock is giving a damage aura (better then a meager too hit buff). Invul, with it toggle only, should be very close to a rock with granite and all, it is defense, defense, defense, defense again and more defense. Damn. But no, let's nerf them.
They want us to play the new set. So the new set is powerfull, they nerf some of the most popular old sets (that way they have a large chunks of players who want to play something other then their main). And later they will nerf the new set (giving you much desire to play it when you don't trust the devs anymore).
How many times do you have to be told that invul has not been nerfed. you keep claiming it has, but it has not.
you need to go back and reaad all of the patch notes for the past year and find one that says invul has been nerfed, you cant do it because it has not. give it a rest already.
the simple fact is, you had more mag stacked on you than your protection provided, it happens sometimes. But it doesn't mean that it was nerfed. but rather than going back and finding out what went wrong, you just want to cry about it and try to get everyone to give you an atta-boy. well sorry to burst your bubble yet again. you are wrong
your claims hold no water, and you need to stop spreading mis-information.
But I only like PvE-grouping and PvE-soloing...and MMO are kinda suckling for Powerplayers who enjoys these 2 aspects only. LotRO features raiding, this is a game killer, I can't even start the game.
Guess I will have to wait for a real MMO and play offlines games until such times comes.
Well then try EQ2, PvE is its best aspect I think. DDO is all about PvE Grouping. These are of course ONLY games I have played.
OOOOO Since you like CoH you might like its wanna-be red-headed step-halfbrother, the Matrix Online.
I guess Star Trek Online is dead and we all have to deal with that pain.
Lots of other games out there, ya just have to find one you like. I hate to say it but you might give the SOE station pass a try, play all there games. I think most are pretty cheap by now.
Well then try EQ2, PvE is its best aspect I think. DDO is all about PvE Grouping. These are of course ONLY games I have played.
OOOOO Since you like CoH you might like its wanna-be red-headed step-halfbrother, the Matrix Online. I guess Star Trek Online is dead and we all have to deal with that pain. Lots of other games out there, ya just have to find one you like. I hate to say it but you might give the SOE station pass a try, play all there games. I think most are pretty cheap by now.
DDO is a fast-action-reflex game, I can't follow up.
EQ2 will force me to raid as well, not acceptable. I want to GROUP and miss nothing a grouper could use.
About Invul, the set resolves around AUTO powers...it should have some of the strongest auto-powers in the game. But the fact is, 2 of these give about 11% total, and the 3rd give less then 17%....Fiery aura has only 1 auto power, it give 30% resist, rock armor give 15%, Willpower with 1 auto power give over 45% resist, other sets are around 17% resist. If a set is full of auto-powers, then it should have the BEST auto-powers, not the worst...especially the highest tiers.
Also, fiery is at the resist cap vs fire. Electric is at the resist cap vs energy. Rock has the best overall resist (about 4 times better then an invul in most resists) and is almost at toxic resist cap (invul has nothing vs toxic). Invul, doesn't have outstanding resist like a rock, and it isn't close to any resist cap. Most definitely should be at resist cap somewhere and have outstanding resist vs all, just like a rock. The set give no offensive bonus except a meager too hit buff (weaker then a damage aura, which rock does). Invul should AT LEAST be at the resist cap vs lethal and and upgrade of 20% (about 15% in the auto, 5% in unyielding) in each other resist except maybe smashing (or reverse lethal/smashing; the extra buff vs lethal could be in temporary invul)...you would still only have half the resist of a stoner, but you would also have 1 resist at the cap.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well then try EQ2, PvE is its best aspect I think. DDO is all about PvE Grouping. These are of course ONLY games I have played.
OOOOO Since you like CoH you might like its wanna-be red-headed step-halfbrother, the Matrix Online. I guess Star Trek Online is dead and we all have to deal with that pain. Lots of other games out there, ya just have to find one you like. I hate to say it but you might give the SOE station pass a try, play all there games. I think most are pretty cheap by now.
DDO is a fast-action-reflex game, I can't follow up.
EQ2 will force me to raid as well, not acceptable. I want to GROUP and miss nothing a grouper could use.
About Invul, the set resolves around AUTO powers...it should have some of the strongest auto-powers in the game. But the fact is, 2 of these give about 11% total, and the 3rd give less then 17%....Fiery aura has only 1 auto power, it give 30% resist, rock armor give 15%, Willpower with 1 auto power give over 45% resist, other sets are around 17% resist. If a set is full of auto-powers, then it should have the BEST auto-powers, not the worst...especially the highest tiers.
Also, fiery is at the resist cap vs fire. Electric is at the resist cap vs energy. Rock has the best overall resist (about 4 times better then an invul in most resists) and is almost at toxic resist cap (invul has nothing vs toxic). Invul, doesn't have outstanding resist like a rock, and it isn't close to any resist cap. Most definitely should be at resist cap somewhere and have outstanding resist vs all, just like a rock. The set give no offensive bonus except a meager too hit buff (weaker then a damage aura, which rock does). Invul should AT LEAST be at the resist cap vs lethal and and upgrade of 20% (about 15% in the auto, 5% in unyielding) in each other resist except maybe smashing (or reverse lethal/smashing; the extra buff vs lethal could be in temporary invul)...you would still only have half the resist of a stoner, but you would also have 1 resist at the cap.
About EQ2, I play it its the one that holds my attention best. IT WILL NOT FORCE YOU TO RAID. You CAN if you so choose but you can do plenty of other quests without EVER raiding, and you are not missing anything. THATS what I like about it. The FEW times I get the itch to raid, I can. Im advocating it because it is such a good game. I really think you would like it. What I hate about EQ2 is the fact that its a fantasy MMO which Im sick of. They could take EQ2 and put a star trek or Dune skin over it I would be happy beyond belief. It seems to me that it has the least bugs, but I don't pay AS CLOSE attention as you do. Im just saying if your gonna buy a new game, that one is well established and well done. MUCH MUCH better than CoH anyway lol.
Since this is a rant...let review all my angriness(fury) building, and about which points:
- Tanker does more basic damage then Brutes. I don't care how good Fury is, if you have 2 secondaries, this is lame. Divide Fury efficiency by 2 and made us start at half way if you want, or whatever, but we have to be damage dealer, naturally, this is our primary. Needing 25% fury just to get at a normal level for a primary is infuriating.
- Sonic defenders have more resists then an INVULNERABLE Brute...now...I don't ask for a nerf on the defender, but maybe, oh just maybe, a Brute should have more resists then a defender, especially a set which is solelely defensive like Invulnerability. (temporary invul give them 30...so 45%, and adds their AoE toggle for 23%, and they beat the invul brute).
- Willpower tier 1 auto power = 3 powers from the invul brute (tier 1, tier 4 and tier 6) + some psi resist + some hps...I know you want peoples to play NEW stuff, but that is no excuse to do this type of stuff.
- Purples sets force you into either going without purples...or to change how your character is developped, on it most basic points. Forcing playing is NEVER a good option.
- Electric/Electric brute mix badly, DB/Willpower mix relatively badly...why are these devs adding new powers that don't mix well? Of course players will want to play the 2 new sets.
- The buffing system is extremely painful. My complain here is minor, as I always knew that before starting so I can only blame myself for playing buffers, but still...it is not fun in anyway. You didn't bring me a ninja-change, but bad design remains bad design...at least, it wasn't imposed on me.
- IH isn't a toggle anymore.
- Willpower regen more then a regen, except for the duration of IH which isn't even activate half the time.
- STOP NERFING PLAYERS. We play to advance, to progress, to become better...I dunno which part of that is hard to understand. Remove the levels if you want to switch everything upside down. If you put levels, then you never, never, never nerf a player.
Dear sir,
<Mod edit> Electric Electric is just fine. Willpower/ Dual blades mesh just fine. Fury is also fine if you had half a clue you would never ever worry about it and praise its name.
Purple recipes do NOT force you to play a different way. You can continue to play the same ole way you always have. Tankers do NOT do more damage than brutes out the gate the damage is = and fury makes brute do more.
Since this is a rant...let review all my angriness(fury) building, and about which points:
- Tanker does more basic damage then Brutes. I don't care how good Fury is, if you have 2 secondaries, this is lame. Divide Fury efficiency by 2 and made us start at half way if you want, or whatever, but we have to be damage dealer, naturally, this is our primary. Needing 25% fury just to get at a normal level for a primary is infuriating.
- Sonic defenders have more resists then an INVULNERABLE Brute...now...I don't ask for a nerf on the defender, but maybe, oh just maybe, a Brute should have more resists then a defender, especially a set which is solelely defensive like Invulnerability. (temporary invul give them 30...so 45%, and adds their AoE toggle for 23%, and they beat the invul brute).
- Willpower tier 1 auto power = 3 powers from the invul brute (tier 1, tier 4 and tier 6) + some psi resist + some hps...I know you want peoples to play NEW stuff, but that is no excuse to do this type of stuff.
- Purples sets force you into either going without purples...or to change how your character is developped, on it most basic points. Forcing playing is NEVER a good option.
- Electric/Electric brute mix badly, DB/Willpower mix relatively badly...why are these devs adding new powers that don't mix well? Of course players will want to play the 2 new sets.
- The buffing system is extremely painful. My complain here is minor, as I always knew that before starting so I can only blame myself for playing buffers, but still...it is not fun in anyway. You didn't bring me a ninja-change, but bad design remains bad design...at least, it wasn't imposed on me.
- IH isn't a toggle anymore.
- Willpower regen more then a regen, except for the duration of IH which isn't even activate half the time.
- STOP NERFING PLAYERS. We play to advance, to progress, to become better...I dunno which part of that is hard to understand. Remove the levels if you want to switch everything upside down. If you put levels, then you never, never, never nerf a player.
Dear sir,
<Mod edit>Electric Electric is just fine. Willpower/ Dual blades mesh just fine. Fury is also fine if you had half a clue you would never ever worry about it and praise its name.
Purple recipes do NOT force you to play a different way. You can continue to play the same ole way you always have. Tankers do NOT do more damage than brutes out the gate the damage is = and fury makes brute do more.
<Mod edit>
you are incorrect about tanker damage, it is higher than brutes out the gate. Tankers have a higher base damage modifier than brutes, so you do have to build up a little fury before the damage is equal. But I do agree with everything els you said
Electric/Electric...let's be honest here for 1 moment. Electric Melee is 1 of the weakest damage output yet it help a LOT to control your enemies. Electric armor is 1 of the most offensive secondary and 1 of the weakest tanking choice...which leave you doing weaks attack better and rellying on your attacks to tank(if they are immuned to KB, you are toasted). The tallest of the dwarves is still a dwarf. Electric Melee is fine for someone who plan on tanking a lot, but with a secondary that isn't thinked to make you tank long...this is very hard and painful. Build Up from electric melee could power up your shields for 60 seconds...or Lightning Field could power up your attacks...think about a little bonus either to make you a good damage dealer...or a good tanking brute.
Dual Blade/Willpower...Dual Blade is balanced, damage-wise, for a scrapper. It is okay for a scrapper or for a stalker. But when it is applied on a brute/tanker damage template, it is incredibly subpar behind super strenght or energy melee...you realize a Brute does need 50 FURY to be even with a scrapper (not considering critical hit here)? This isn't normal...and this make it extremely subpar when compared to other melees choices.
See, a brute has the same secondary % as a Scrapper but 15% more hps or so, and much better caps defense/resist/hps-wise...but a scrapper does 50% more damage! That is throught the roof. Again, I repeat it, divide fury by 2 and start with a 33% damage bonus for all Brute, and then we have a real primary. Could also give a tiny mag 1 protection bonus since it is harder to affect someone who is furious with a fear/hold/stun/sleep.
Finally, if you want a condensed form of all the changes I would like to see, I write it on Gamespot CoV forum...and I am way too lazy to again redo it here.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
About EQ2, I play it its the one that holds my attention best. IT WILL NOT FORCE YOU TO RAID. You CAN if you so choose but you can do plenty of other quests without EVER raiding, and you are not missing anything. THATS what I like about it. The FEW times I get the itch to raid, I can. Im advocating it because it is such a good game. I really think you would like it. What I hate about EQ2 is the fact that its a fantasy MMO which Im sick of. They could take EQ2 and put a star trek or Dune skin over it I would be happy beyond belief. It seems to me that it has the least bugs, but I don't pay AS CLOSE attention as you do. Im just saying if your gonna buy a new game, that one is well established and well done. MUCH MUCH better than CoH anyway lol.
Having a weaker character is not an option. My path, at some point, force me to raid or to be weaker. Creates grouping server or whatever, but the optimal path must be throught grouping and nothing else.
If any part of my path is unfun, I won't play the game. You cannot enjoy a journey which you can't finish (not the same as a journey you never finish...but could have). The journey is what matter, and if raiding is part of that journey, I want nothing of that game. EQ2 forces raiding, just like EvE force you to PvP.
I can't even consider EQ2 or EvE seriously, my journey in those games, throught better rewards, pass throught gameplays I want nothing off. They are no possible compromise here...every rewards a grouper may want for grouping better, must be optimally obtained throught grouping. And as far as I can tell, only CoV/CoH understood that point, which remove each and every other MMO from even been considered. WAR is missing that point as well, and it really pain me, but I can't go there, only hatred, furiousness and unhappiness could possibly results from the design of WAR, and they keep thinking their PvE is appealing, to peoples who don't focus on PvE maybe (casuals don't focus on anything, this is part of the definition of a casual).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Electric/Electric...let's be honest here for 1 moment. Electric Melee is 1 of the weakest damage output yet it help a LOT to control your enemies. Electric armor is 1 of the most offensive secondary and 1 of the weakest tanking choice...which leave you doing weaks attack better and rellying on your attacks to tank(if they are immuned to KB, you are toasted). The tallest of the dwarves is still a dwarf. Electric Melee is fine for someone who plan on tanking a lot, but with a secondary that isn't thinked to make you tank long...this is very hard and painful. Build Up from electric melee could power up your shields for 60 seconds...or Lightning Field could power up your attacks...think about a little bonus either to make you a good damage dealer...or a good tanking brute.
Dual Blade/Willpower...Dual Blade is balanced, damage-wise, for a scrapper. It is okay for a scrapper or for a stalker. But when it is applied on a brute/tanker damage template, it is incredibly subpar behind super strenght or energy melee...you realize a Brute does need 50 FURY to be even with a scrapper (not considering critical hit here)? This isn't normal...and this make it extremely subpar when compared to other melees choices.
See, a brute has the same secondary % as a Scrapper but 15% more hps or so, and much better caps defense/resist/hps-wise...but a scrapper does 50% more damage! That is throught the roof. Again, I repeat it, divide fury by 2 and start with a 33% damage bonus for all Brute, and then we have a real primary. Could also give a tiny mag 1 protection bonus since it is harder to affect someone who is furious with a fear/hold/stun/sleep.
Finally, if you want a condensed form of all the changes I would like to see, I write it on Gamespot CoV forum...and I am way too lazy to again redo it here.
The point of playing a brute is that you're average with both the /defence or /resistance and also somewhat good with damage. Less resistance/defence than tanks but way more damage. More resistance/defence and better /secondaries than scrappers, but somewhat less damage (which fury fixes). Stalkers are actually super squishe and without hide would be a pointless AT.
When you pick your sets you also DON'T have to take dark/dark, elec/elec, db/wp, ss/invuln and maybe others that i'm missing because you seem to talk a lot about the actuall combinations as if they had to be the best powers to take. You can mix them up so you have what you want. If you like damage on a brute then take Super Strenght and you will rage which if you 6 slot ( and yes you have enough slots for that) then you can 3 slot it with recharge and 3 slot with 2 hit buff and have perma (although the crash effect at the end still happens.)
Electric armor isn't at all weak and is probably in the top 2 or top 3 best /secondary sets for brutes. Electric melee focuses on multiple foe damage. I can also understand you getting stunned or held once in a while (every 2 weeks maybe not) but it's not going to happen everyday and shouldn't unless it was accidentaly bugged. Only with multiple stacks of stuns will you actually get stunned and no matter what lvl if a npc hits you with a stun and stacks it enough you will get stunned because the magnitude effect doesn't change, only the duration of the power gets shorter. If fighting tsoo you can probably get stunned, but you can't compare tanks and brutes because they are 2 different archtypes made to do different things.
Also if damage is such a problem then go straight from mob to mob, taunt, and you will always or almost always have your fury above 50% because i don't see why you'd have to rest. If your secondary set doesn't have a heal (ex. /electric armor) then you can take aid pool and slot aid self with 2-3 heals 2 interrupt redux and you should be able to heal yourself without a problem. Electric armor also has high resistance to everything if slotted right and with extra slots you can put in some knockback protection IOs. Also with that said, electric melee with at least 50% fury will deal HUGE damage to many foes instead of the other standard single targets attack. With build up and lightning rod it becomes a nuke for the brute. Best part is it recharges fast. Chain induction in that set with base damage at lvl 50 is around 170. thats more than knockout blow or total focus (energy transfer is at 220ish).
As for pvp and not being able to kill a controller or blaster, dont remember which you said, then they dont have status protection at all. If you really wish to pvp make a brute with some sort of stealth power or take stealth and super speed in your build (which wont make you invisible, but only visible at close range since most controllers dont have perception. A good sneak up attack and you can have them stunned and dead unless they carry break frees.
For tanking i don't see why it should be to big of a problem for any brute other than a willpower and yes willpower does pretty much suck. It has small defence to elements, around 18% when slotted, some resistance to everything (i think around 8%) and 26% to smash/lethal. some defence to psy and resistance to psy and weak type regeneration which wont save you if large mobs constantly attack. That goes for brutes and tanks as it is bad. I run missions mostly in teams and am able to keep my fury bar around 50% and up and that beats tanks damage by a hack of a lot.
Brutes are my favorite AT and they're not by any means weak what-so-ever if you know how to build them right. If you dont like IOs then stick to SOs, but IOs have those higher percentage bonus. Each game has its ups and downs so i don't see how any game can be perfect for anyone. If you dont like either stalkers, brutes, scrappers, or tanks there are more choices to choose from than that.
I have not read this whole discussion so if i repeat something that was already said then i didn't purposely do it. Just my opinion on this subject.
Electric/electric is not something you HAVE to take. But, since they where both NEW at the same moments, and since it is the same elements, you can assume that a LOT of players will put this combo without thinking about it, especially that it is new. You find yourself with something doing very little damage and tanking extremely poorly. The /ela increase your attacks rate, your still are the tallest dwarf...not anything good. Your electric melee helps you tank better, but your an ela so you are still the tallest dwarf. The fact you get your best attack early on also make you oblivious to the fact you are a poor damage dealer. You have to make sure that the players who take something appealing like that are not shafted. This is basic comon sense, you bring 2 new powers...you make sure they mix well!
Brutes have a basic damage which is inferior to tankers. It needs an increase of 33% right off the bat, so it is 15% behind scrapper and with fury you can somewhat try to compete with critical hits (never really competing, so need to reduce fury impact as well).
Brutes are the best tanks for villains, they shouldn't be stunned ever. Unless a tanker is also stunned. Same with all other status.
And about willpower...the key thing is that with 1 power, you have better than 3 powers of an invul. Your regen is better than the regen of a regen scrapper...Rise to the Challenge with 3 opponents (even better if more) will outregen Instant Healing on a the long run, sure on the 90 seconds the regen will outregen you somewhat, but as soon as IH is down, for many minutes, you outregen him. And as you know, you needs to regen mostly when there are a LOT of peoples around. With 10 opponents, it is seriously gross. Adds the fact you have more hps...and it is clearly way too strong. Come on, HPT = Resist Energy + Resist Elements + Resist Physical + some psi resist and HPS??? That isn't fair. Willpower also debuff the enemies, which make everyone in group better!!! Don't nerf them, raise those which need a raise!
Invul has to compete with rock armor. You have 9 defensive powers and they all stack. Youhou!!! It has to be the best or near the best tanking set! Rock armor has offensive damage dealing, it doesn't even stack stuff, and it outdo you? WTF! A set which doesn't need to stack powers shouldn't be as good as a set which stack everything, since it means you save powers that you can spent elsewhere. They make invul that weak because scrappers can take it. It is definitely not fair to shaft tankers and brutes because you allow scrappers to take it. And btw, why don't the scrapper get Fiery Aura? Why can a tanker stack 2 build up and not a scrapper???? Why can a tanker take energy melee or super strenght and outdamage, in melee, a scrapper since he use fiery aura? Those are all PvE concerns they never care or address.
Anyway, I think I debate it a LOT. The devs made their choices, and apparently they are not all wise as...I am far from alone leaving by lack of proper PvE balance (each time they balance they do it for PvP and screw it even more).
You may agree with me, you may disagree, but at any rate, you can't change my ideas nor the fact that I quit because of these problems.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I don't know if this helps but nonetheless, I've played a lot of different brutes since CoV came out. And of course my favorite has been my dark/invul brute.
I've never had issues with getting stunned, its extremely rare with Unyielding and/or Unstoppable running. with dark melee these powers are much easier to maintain. The only real weaknesses are against those that drain your power that then make your powers shutoff prematurely which makes you vulnerable. or the use of Fear, which acts like a stun but is a different aspect in the game. Invul has no real defense vs. fear. also of course psionics. but just getting the right enhancements setup you can reduce all that some.
i honestly don't see any major changes to stun resistance tho.
yeah, i've been trying to hold this out for a while, but the devs totally suck in this game. I've been done with this game for a while, but i can still see that they're doing the SAME lazy ass THING to fix every problem.
Ever since the beginning, they've nerfed ATs to fix EVERY problem. They never thought to make an AT better... "Oh? Blasters too weak? Nerf scrappers!!!!"
And another thing... I don't know who the hell they think they're making happy by making "new" powersets that are exactly the same as other power sets, giving them different names, and maybe adding one power (usually not even..).
aren't masterminds the ones posi and gang built/tested as tanks? especially with BG mode.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Electric/electric is not something you HAVE to take. But, since they where both NEW at the same moments, and since it is the same elements, you can assume that a LOT of players will put this combo without thinking about it, especially that it is new. You find yourself with something doing very little damage and tanking extremely poorly. The /ela increase your attacks rate, your still are the tallest dwarf...not anything good. Your electric melee helps you tank better, but your an ela so you are still the tallest dwarf. The fact you get your best attack early on also make you oblivious to the fact you are a poor damage dealer. You have to make sure that the players who take something appealing like that are not shafted. This is basic comon sense, you bring 2 new powers...you make sure they mix well!
Brutes have a basic damage which is inferior to tankers. It needs an increase of 33% right off the bat, so it is 15% behind scrapper and with fury you can somewhat try to compete with critical hits (never really competing, so need to reduce fury impact as well).
Brutes are the best tanks for villains, they shouldn't be stunned ever. Unless a tanker is also stunned. Same with all other status.
And about willpower...the key thing is that with 1 power, you have better than 3 powers of an invul. Your regen is better than the regen of a regen scrapper...Rise to the Challenge with 3 opponents (even better if more) will outregen Instant Healing on a the long run, sure on the 90 seconds the regen will outregen you somewhat, but as soon as IH is down, for many minutes, you outregen him. And as you know, you needs to regen mostly when there are a LOT of peoples around. With 10 opponents, it is seriously gross. Adds the fact you have more hps...and it is clearly way too strong. Come on, HPT = Resist Energy + Resist Elements + Resist Physical + some psi resist and HPS??? That isn't fair. Willpower also debuff the enemies, which make everyone in group better!!! Don't nerf them, raise those which need a raise!
Invul has to compete with rock armor. You have 9 defensive powers and they all stack. Youhou!!! It has to be the best or near the best tanking set! Rock armor has offensive damage dealing, it doesn't even stack stuff, and it outdo you? WTF! A set which doesn't need to stack powers shouldn't be as good as a set which stack everything, since it means you save powers that you can spent elsewhere. They make invul that weak because scrappers can take it. It is definitely not fair to shaft tankers and brutes because you allow scrappers to take it. And btw, why don't the scrapper get Fiery Aura? Why can a tanker stack 2 build up and not a scrapper???? Why can a tanker take energy melee or super strenght and outdamage, in melee, a scrapper since he use fiery aura? Those are all PvE concerns they never care or address.
Anyway, I think I debate it a LOT. The devs made their choices, and apparently they are not all wise as...I am far from alone leaving by lack of proper PvE balance (each time they balance they do it for PvP and screw it even more).
You may agree with me, you may disagree, but at any rate, you can't change my ideas nor the fact that I quit because of these problems.
you really seem like you're comparing brute to tanker. brutes are not tankers.
and then you're comparing a tanker to a scrapper? but you're upset because brutes aren't tankers? i really have no idea what you're getting at, other than all powersets are not created equal in terrms of damage and defense. well duh.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Your comparison of brutes to tanks is flawed. Brutes are damage dealers, more like scrappers than tanks. Masterminds were intended to be the tanks on V-side, according to Castle the dev.
Castle says in a recent post on the CoH forums:
BTW, here's something I don't think has ever been publicly stated before, but is "true" -- Masterminds were meant to be the Tanker equivalents on the Villainside, not Brutes. Brutes tend to overperform compared to what the original design was, they were meant to be closer to scrappers than to tankers. That mindset has evolved quite a bit based on how players are actually playing, but that was the original idea. And, before things go south, no, we aren't planning any changes based on that. I just wanted to offer a bit of "behind the scenes" insight.
Anofalye, Your comparison of brutes to tanks is flawed. Brutes are damage dealers, more like scrappers than tanks. Masterminds were intended to be the tanks on V-side, according to Castle the dev. Castle says in a recent post on the CoH forums:
BTW, here's something I don't think has ever been publicly stated before, but is "true" -- Masterminds were meant to be the Tanker equivalents on the Villainside, not Brutes. Brutes tend to overperform compared to what the original design was, they were meant to be closer to scrappers than to tankers. That mindset has evolved quite a bit based on how players are actually playing, but that was the original idea. And, before things go south, no, we aren't planning any changes based on that. I just wanted to offer a bit of "behind the scenes" insight. boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php
EQ devs didn't intend monks to pull either. Brutes are the tanks for villains. Not MMs (they can't tank, so if the intend was to make them good tanks, LOL, it was a failure, not to mention they don't have taunt). And tankers have MORE basic damage than a brute. This is not normal. Brutes have 1 thing...a strong potential, and they are very lames and weak at start because of this potential. Resisting status effect is just something which should be normal. Apparently, the devs think otherwise.
I dunno why you guys keep resurrecting this thread. My opinion will not change. You are only making me angrier. I am a game designer myself. I know when something is wrong. Especially when it is what I played the most.
I will recap my main issues:
- Brutes does 8% less damage than a tanker, they also have merely 75% of their defense/resist and a LOT less hps, the basic damage of a tanker should be 75% of a brute, without counting fury yet in. Now that would be a primary power (and don't nerf anyone, always upgrade those which need it). Tankers have more resists, more hps, more defense, this is a triple bonus...Brute should have more basic damage, more accuracy and fury. Not even considering the fact tankers have gauntlet on top of this here.
- Fury is way to volatile, it move too fast and have too much of an impact. Brutes need more basic damage, for about the same final result (kinda as if the fury meter always start at 33% but then it is harder to developp it, so the final result is about the same).
- Brutes have the BEST potential of any AT, damage/resist/defense/hps wise, but they are freaking lamers to start, how about reducing this potential a little and start better? Why do you put a damage cap of half the usual value on 1 brute power (Lightning Rod)? This make no sense. Does your job properly.
- Brute build up is the same as a tanker, while it should be the same as a scrapper, primary for both, you already affect the basic damage, no need to affect BU, both have it as a primary.
- Brutes needs a LOT more status protection, in order to be equivalent to tankers. They are tanking for villains...and tankers already have more resists, more hps and more defense. Brutes NEEDS this extra protection. Of course a soloer or casual player would not notice how badly brutes need it. But they really need it, badly. It is not normal that a brute get stunned for holding aggro and doing his job.
- Invul is underperforming compared to Granite. It is naturally appealing to players for DESIGN reasons, all the more reason to make it a VERY good choice for tanking. 9 powers which stacks should definitely make you very close to the best if not the best set for tanking, especially that except for a tiny too hit buff, they are all on the defense/resist, no other set is even remotedly as defense-focus as this one...Rock for example is dealing damage. If elves are popular, you don't nerf them. You are the main tank all the time up to level 37, and suddenly, no more you. There is something wrong here. You don't change such basics in the middle of the game/end of the game (initially there was only 40 levels).
- Energy Melee/Super Strenght are outdamaging scrappers...give these 2 sets to scrappers ASAP. (I know Brutes want broadswords even if I don't want them).
- Elect/Ela doesn't mix that well. Most defensive damaging power with the most offensive shields. Bad, bad, bad and bad. Nobody want to be the tallest dwarf, but many will be because they trust you with these set which seem to naturally blend...
- Brutes are underperforming. I dunno who make broad statements otherwise. Brutes are popular among players, but they are, underperforming. See, a set which is popular is not automatically strong. It may denote weakness elsewhere, a desire for a precise gameplay, design reasons (who can't relate to fury?)...and so on. See, best PvP groups are heroes...and if then you must pick villains, strangely the best group are mostly made of corruptors, or exceptionnally dominators/stalkers...brutes and MMs in PvP are a joke, they are underperforming...you don't build Fury over 40% in PvP...and at 40% you are merely where you should have been at start to be in between scrappers and tankers (not even considering the critical ability of the scrappers in). CoV is underperforming (amount of players). The most popular choices may very well all be underperforming.
And there must be many other...but these are those which come naturally to my mind as extremely annoying and unfair. Again, in my long list of flaws, I am also a game designer (flash games only if you want to cheap shot me, still...).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'm sorry, but it just appears to me that you're trying to pigeon-hole brutes into the tanking role to match the playstyle of tanks and they're just not the best option for the role (which I take is the argument you're making about them underperforming; that part I understand).
Every team I've been on with an MM, we've let it tank by using the minions as cannon fodder to take alphas and draw the intial ire of the mobs. Sometimes MMs even use the mins to pull. Then the brute(s) go in. Since the minions can't hold aggro, some of the mobs turn on the brutes and the fury starts building. Dispose of that group and quickly move to the next spawn in order to keep the fury built up.
It's been very effective.
Just out of curiosity, are you still playing the game, or did you move on? And if so, what are you playing? I'm looking for another game and would appreciate any recommendations (from you, or any other players reading this thread).
I'm sorry, but it just appears to me that you're trying to pigeon-hole brutes into the tanking role to match the playstyle of tanks and they're just not the best option for the role (which I take is the argument you're making about them underperforming; that part I understand). Every team I've been on with an MM, we've let it tank by using the minions as cannon fodder to take alphas and draw the intial ire of the mobs. Sometimes MMs even use the mins to pull. Then the brute(s) go in. Since the minions can't hold aggro, some of the mobs turn on the brutes and the fury starts building. Dispose of that group and quickly move to the next spawn in order to keep the fury built up. It's been very effective. Just out of curiosity, are you still playing the game, or did you move on? And if so, what are you playing? I'm looking for another game and would appreciate any recommendations (from you, or any other players reading this thread).
the 'city of' game is way far better than it was even just a year ago.
now, you may not get the exact adventures you want (i don't think there's any dragons to go slay, and i'm not being smart-alec, i think a few out of the ordinary adventures would be great); but, you can pretty much imagine the character you want to play and create it. humanoid shaped.
i used to say i'd play COx when they finally reached a little of the potential the game had. they've gotten to that point (imo).
there's way more map types, more story arcs, just more (and better) everything.
getting back to a new issue every 3-4 months would be great; but, oh well.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Other than costumes its a crappy game with zero imagination anyway. Your better off not playing it IMO.
Your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't.
What would you like to see improved? What game do you currently play that incorperates something you really enjoy?
I see you play WoW. I've found elements of CoH in WoW. Does WoW have zero imagination? The blanket statement you feel that it's a crappy game is trolling. There are some posters who I disagree with, but at least they have their reasons, whether it's gameplay, how things have changed, or appearance. I respect those reasons. They have even chimed in saying what would have kept them playing, what changes they wanted to happen.
What you put down is childish, self centered and provides nothing to a person who is not familar to the game. I dislike the one off remarks that requires the audiance to be a mind reader. If your going to post, back up your arguments. We may not agree, but we can have a common ground.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Other than costumes its a crappy game with zero imagination anyway. Your better off not playing it IMO.
yeah, cuz all the games out there have time travel, dimensional travel, a dozen+ character classes, etc.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Even you yourself (OP) said you were Highly resistant to Mez... Not Impervious... taking 3-4 holds and still kicking is pretty good for mez protection considering squishies can't take one... What did you think you'd go through the entire game and never get mezzed? My first tank got mezzed for the first time recently... Did I lose my mind over it? No... Cuz It isn't a magic mez-b-gone power... It only makes me higly resistant to it... And fighting enough Carnies will do that to you.. And for a non tank class you can expect to get mezzed even more often. I think you're just overestimating yourself... You are not that good... You aren't some UBER brute who can never get mezzed... Get over it
Oh yeah, Jack Emmertt "Stateman" Was the nerfaholic behind CoH... He's the one behind all the crazy nerf of CoX.. Now that he's got the boot they are doing a lot less nerfing and more actual improvements which is why we got stuff like the XP smoothing.
Comments
Yeah, this is what I am doing.
But I only like PvE-grouping and PvE-soloing...and MMO are kinda suckling for Powerplayers who enjoys these 2 aspects only. LotRO features raiding, this is a game killer, I can't even start the game.
Guess I will have to wait for a real MMO and play offlines games until such times comes.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It was nerfed multiples times.
They nerf it at I11 again.
With Mid Hero Designer, you see that even Fiery is a better tank then an invul. But Fiery has good self healing, +100% damage, damage aura, self rez. Electric also tank about much better but is has a recovery bonus, many endurance bonuses, psi resist, dark is also about as good while having interesting twists. Now Invul give ONLY DEFENSIVE STUFF (except a meager too hit buff), and it definitely should be almost as good as rock armor...yet is is weaker then many other sets. Heck, even sonic defenders have more resists. (don't nerf the fenders, boost invul where it should be)
The game is balanced for 1 vs 1 PvP. So a controller can hold a brute. But by doing so, they screw the PvE completely. Rock has a penalty too movement, thereby they are useless in PvP, so they are balanced appropriatedly for PvE. Invul should be at about the same level for PvE, but because they move well in PvP and are dangerous there, they are nerfed to a point they are good sport for 1 vs 1 PvP, with no regards whatsoever to PvE. Heck, when a fiery set with +100% damage tank as well, there is a big problem. And the problem is not the fiery one...but the invul which is way too weak. I don't care for PvP. I care for PvE grouping.
Just to give you a FAST idea.
Willpower 1st power (a level 1 character has that) = Invul 1st power + Invul 4th Power + Invul 6th Power + psi resist + 20% hps.... I mean...it took me 3 of my 24 powers, some of which as advance as my 6th power on a pool, to have less than a level 1 willpower? Willpower has a good regen, goor recovery, good acc debuff and much more...I should outank that by MUCH, I don't regen, I don't have recovery, I don't have debuff to enemy ACC...
And invul was 1 of the sets the most nerfed since the start of the game, and they just nerf the status resistance in I11 (althought I am not sure how, I know they did cause I am stunned now and I wasn't before, and the "unlucky comment" is BS, I play too much to not have been unlucky once in the past). Invul should be the 2nd best tanking set in the game at the very least, even rock give a damage aura! Atm, only an energy brute or an ice tanker is worser. This is bad...like very bad...considering that other sets give non-defensive bonuses...heck, even rock is giving a damage aura (better then a meager too hit buff). Invul, with it toggle only, should be very close to a rock with granite and all, it is defense, defense, defense, defense again and more defense. Damn. But no, let's nerf them.
They want us to play the new set. So the new set is powerfull, they nerf some of the most popular old sets (that way they have a large chunks of players who want to play something other then their main). And later they will nerf the new set (giving you much desire to play it when you don't trust the devs anymore).
How many times do you have to be told that invul has not been nerfed. you keep claiming it has, but it has not.
you need to go back and reaad all of the patch notes for the past year and find one that says invul has been nerfed, you cant do it because it has not. give it a rest already.
the simple fact is, you had more mag stacked on you than your protection provided, it happens sometimes. But it doesn't mean that it was nerfed. but rather than going back and finding out what went wrong, you just want to cry about it and try to get everyone to give you an atta-boy. well sorry to burst your bubble yet again. you are wrong
your claims hold no water, and you need to stop spreading mis-information.
OOOOO Since you like CoH you might like its wanna-be red-headed step-halfbrother, the Matrix Online.
I guess Star Trek Online is dead and we all have to deal with that pain.
Lots of other games out there, ya just have to find one you like. I hate to say it but you might give the SOE station pass a try, play all there games. I think most are pretty cheap by now.
DDO is a fast-action-reflex game, I can't follow up.
EQ2 will force me to raid as well, not acceptable. I want to GROUP and miss nothing a grouper could use.
About Invul, the set resolves around AUTO powers...it should have some of the strongest auto-powers in the game. But the fact is, 2 of these give about 11% total, and the 3rd give less then 17%....Fiery aura has only 1 auto power, it give 30% resist, rock armor give 15%, Willpower with 1 auto power give over 45% resist, other sets are around 17% resist. If a set is full of auto-powers, then it should have the BEST auto-powers, not the worst...especially the highest tiers.
Also, fiery is at the resist cap vs fire. Electric is at the resist cap vs energy. Rock has the best overall resist (about 4 times better then an invul in most resists) and is almost at toxic resist cap (invul has nothing vs toxic). Invul, doesn't have outstanding resist like a rock, and it isn't close to any resist cap. Most definitely should be at resist cap somewhere and have outstanding resist vs all, just like a rock. The set give no offensive bonus except a meager too hit buff (weaker then a damage aura, which rock does). Invul should AT LEAST be at the resist cap vs lethal and and upgrade of 20% (about 15% in the auto, 5% in unyielding) in each other resist except maybe smashing (or reverse lethal/smashing; the extra buff vs lethal could be in temporary invul)...you would still only have half the resist of a stoner, but you would also have 1 resist at the cap.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
DDO is a fast-action-reflex game, I can't follow up.
EQ2 will force me to raid as well, not acceptable. I want to GROUP and miss nothing a grouper could use.
About Invul, the set resolves around AUTO powers...it should have some of the strongest auto-powers in the game. But the fact is, 2 of these give about 11% total, and the 3rd give less then 17%....Fiery aura has only 1 auto power, it give 30% resist, rock armor give 15%, Willpower with 1 auto power give over 45% resist, other sets are around 17% resist. If a set is full of auto-powers, then it should have the BEST auto-powers, not the worst...especially the highest tiers.
Also, fiery is at the resist cap vs fire. Electric is at the resist cap vs energy. Rock has the best overall resist (about 4 times better then an invul in most resists) and is almost at toxic resist cap (invul has nothing vs toxic). Invul, doesn't have outstanding resist like a rock, and it isn't close to any resist cap. Most definitely should be at resist cap somewhere and have outstanding resist vs all, just like a rock. The set give no offensive bonus except a meager too hit buff (weaker then a damage aura, which rock does). Invul should AT LEAST be at the resist cap vs lethal and and upgrade of 20% (about 15% in the auto, 5% in unyielding) in each other resist except maybe smashing (or reverse lethal/smashing; the extra buff vs lethal could be in temporary invul)...you would still only have half the resist of a stoner, but you would also have 1 resist at the cap.
About EQ2, I play it its the one that holds my attention best. IT WILL NOT FORCE YOU TO RAID. You CAN if you so choose but you can do plenty of other quests without EVER raiding, and you are not missing anything. THATS what I like about it. The FEW times I get the itch to raid, I can. Im advocating it because it is such a good game. I really think you would like it. What I hate about EQ2 is the fact that its a fantasy MMO which Im sick of. They could take EQ2 and put a star trek or Dune skin over it I would be happy beyond belief. It seems to me that it has the least bugs, but I don't pay AS CLOSE attention as you do. Im just saying if your gonna buy a new game, that one is well established and well done. MUCH MUCH better than CoH anyway lol.
This is incorrect. You are either uninformed or intentionally being untruthful.
<Mod edit> Electric Electric is just fine. Willpower/ Dual blades mesh just fine.
Fury is also fine if you had half a clue you would never ever worry about it and praise its name.
Purple recipes do NOT force you to play a different way. You can continue to play the same ole way you always have.
Tankers do NOT do more damage than brutes out the gate the damage is = and fury makes brute do more.
<Mod edit>
Electric/Electric...let's be honest here for 1 moment. Electric Melee is 1 of the weakest damage output yet it help a LOT to control your enemies. Electric armor is 1 of the most offensive secondary and 1 of the weakest tanking choice...which leave you doing weaks attack better and rellying on your attacks to tank(if they are immuned to KB, you are toasted). The tallest of the dwarves is still a dwarf. Electric Melee is fine for someone who plan on tanking a lot, but with a secondary that isn't thinked to make you tank long...this is very hard and painful. Build Up from electric melee could power up your shields for 60 seconds...or Lightning Field could power up your attacks...think about a little bonus either to make you a good damage dealer...or a good tanking brute.
Dual Blade/Willpower...Dual Blade is balanced, damage-wise, for a scrapper. It is okay for a scrapper or for a stalker. But when it is applied on a brute/tanker damage template, it is incredibly subpar behind super strenght or energy melee...you realize a Brute does need 50 FURY to be even with a scrapper (not considering critical hit here)? This isn't normal...and this make it extremely subpar when compared to other melees choices.
See, a brute has the same secondary % as a Scrapper but 15% more hps or so, and much better caps defense/resist/hps-wise...but a scrapper does 50% more damage! That is throught the roof. Again, I repeat it, divide fury by 2 and start with a 33% damage bonus for all Brute, and then we have a real primary. Could also give a tiny mag 1 protection bonus since it is harder to affect someone who is furious with a fear/hold/stun/sleep.
Finally, if you want a condensed form of all the changes I would like to see, I write it on Gamespot CoV forum...and I am way too lazy to again redo it here.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Having a weaker character is not an option. My path, at some point, force me to raid or to be weaker. Creates grouping server or whatever, but the optimal path must be throught grouping and nothing else.
If any part of my path is unfun, I won't play the game. You cannot enjoy a journey which you can't finish (not the same as a journey you never finish...but could have). The journey is what matter, and if raiding is part of that journey, I want nothing of that game. EQ2 forces raiding, just like EvE force you to PvP.
I can't even consider EQ2 or EvE seriously, my journey in those games, throught better rewards, pass throught gameplays I want nothing off. They are no possible compromise here...every rewards a grouper may want for grouping better, must be optimally obtained throught grouping. And as far as I can tell, only CoV/CoH understood that point, which remove each and every other MMO from even been considered. WAR is missing that point as well, and it really pain me, but I can't go there, only hatred, furiousness and unhappiness could possibly results from the design of WAR, and they keep thinking their PvE is appealing, to peoples who don't focus on PvE maybe (casuals don't focus on anything, this is part of the definition of a casual).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The point of playing a brute is that you're average with both the /defence or /resistance and also somewhat good with damage. Less resistance/defence than tanks but way more damage. More resistance/defence and better /secondaries than scrappers, but somewhat less damage (which fury fixes). Stalkers are actually super squishe and without hide would be a pointless AT.
When you pick your sets you also DON'T have to take dark/dark, elec/elec, db/wp, ss/invuln and maybe others that i'm missing because you seem to talk a lot about the actuall combinations as if they had to be the best powers to take. You can mix them up so you have what you want. If you like damage on a brute then take Super Strenght and you will rage which if you 6 slot ( and yes you have enough slots for that) then you can 3 slot it with recharge and 3 slot with 2 hit buff and have perma (although the crash effect at the end still happens.)
Electric armor isn't at all weak and is probably in the top 2 or top 3 best /secondary sets for brutes. Electric melee focuses on multiple foe damage. I can also understand you getting stunned or held once in a while (every 2 weeks maybe not) but it's not going to happen everyday and shouldn't unless it was accidentaly bugged. Only with multiple stacks of stuns will you actually get stunned and no matter what lvl if a npc hits you with a stun and stacks it enough you will get stunned because the magnitude effect doesn't change, only the duration of the power gets shorter. If fighting tsoo you can probably get stunned, but you can't compare tanks and brutes because they are 2 different archtypes made to do different things.
Also if damage is such a problem then go straight from mob to mob, taunt, and you will always or almost always have your fury above 50% because i don't see why you'd have to rest. If your secondary set doesn't have a heal (ex. /electric armor) then you can take aid pool and slot aid self with 2-3 heals 2 interrupt redux and you should be able to heal yourself without a problem. Electric armor also has high resistance to everything if slotted right and with extra slots you can put in some knockback protection IOs. Also with that said, electric melee with at least 50% fury will deal HUGE damage to many foes instead of the other standard single targets attack. With build up and lightning rod it becomes a nuke for the brute. Best part is it recharges fast. Chain induction in that set with base damage at lvl 50 is around 170. thats more than knockout blow or total focus (energy transfer is at 220ish).
As for pvp and not being able to kill a controller or blaster, dont remember which you said, then they dont have status protection at all. If you really wish to pvp make a brute with some sort of stealth power or take stealth and super speed in your build (which wont make you invisible, but only visible at close range since most controllers dont have perception. A good sneak up attack and you can have them stunned and dead unless they carry break frees.
For tanking i don't see why it should be to big of a problem for any brute other than a willpower and yes willpower does pretty much suck. It has small defence to elements, around 18% when slotted, some resistance to everything (i think around 8%) and 26% to smash/lethal. some defence to psy and resistance to psy and weak type regeneration which wont save you if large mobs constantly attack. That goes for brutes and tanks as it is bad. I run missions mostly in teams and am able to keep my fury bar around 50% and up and that beats tanks damage by a hack of a lot.
Brutes are my favorite AT and they're not by any means weak what-so-ever if you know how to build them right. If you dont like IOs then stick to SOs, but IOs have those higher percentage bonus. Each game has its ups and downs so i don't see how any game can be perfect for anyone. If you dont like either stalkers, brutes, scrappers, or tanks there are more choices to choose from than that.
I have not read this whole discussion so if i repeat something that was already said then i didn't purposely do it. Just my opinion on this subject.
Electric/electric is not something you HAVE to take. But, since they where both NEW at the same moments, and since it is the same elements, you can assume that a LOT of players will put this combo without thinking about it, especially that it is new. You find yourself with something doing very little damage and tanking extremely poorly. The /ela increase your attacks rate, your still are the tallest dwarf...not anything good. Your electric melee helps you tank better, but your an ela so you are still the tallest dwarf. The fact you get your best attack early on also make you oblivious to the fact you are a poor damage dealer. You have to make sure that the players who take something appealing like that are not shafted. This is basic comon sense, you bring 2 new powers...you make sure they mix well!
Brutes have a basic damage which is inferior to tankers. It needs an increase of 33% right off the bat, so it is 15% behind scrapper and with fury you can somewhat try to compete with critical hits (never really competing, so need to reduce fury impact as well).
Brutes are the best tanks for villains, they shouldn't be stunned ever. Unless a tanker is also stunned. Same with all other status.
And about willpower...the key thing is that with 1 power, you have better than 3 powers of an invul. Your regen is better than the regen of a regen scrapper...Rise to the Challenge with 3 opponents (even better if more) will outregen Instant Healing on a the long run, sure on the 90 seconds the regen will outregen you somewhat, but as soon as IH is down, for many minutes, you outregen him. And as you know, you needs to regen mostly when there are a LOT of peoples around. With 10 opponents, it is seriously gross. Adds the fact you have more hps...and it is clearly way too strong. Come on, HPT = Resist Energy + Resist Elements + Resist Physical + some psi resist and HPS??? That isn't fair. Willpower also debuff the enemies, which make everyone in group better!!! Don't nerf them, raise those which need a raise!
Invul has to compete with rock armor. You have 9 defensive powers and they all stack. Youhou!!! It has to be the best or near the best tanking set! Rock armor has offensive damage dealing, it doesn't even stack stuff, and it outdo you? WTF! A set which doesn't need to stack powers shouldn't be as good as a set which stack everything, since it means you save powers that you can spent elsewhere. They make invul that weak because scrappers can take it. It is definitely not fair to shaft tankers and brutes because you allow scrappers to take it. And btw, why don't the scrapper get Fiery Aura? Why can a tanker stack 2 build up and not a scrapper???? Why can a tanker take energy melee or super strenght and outdamage, in melee, a scrapper since he use fiery aura? Those are all PvE concerns they never care or address.
Anyway, I think I debate it a LOT. The devs made their choices, and apparently they are not all wise as...I am far from alone leaving by lack of proper PvE balance (each time they balance they do it for PvP and screw it even more).
You may agree with me, you may disagree, but at any rate, you can't change my ideas nor the fact that I quit because of these problems.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I don't know if this helps but nonetheless, I've played a lot of different brutes since CoV came out. And of course my favorite has been my dark/invul brute.
I've never had issues with getting stunned, its extremely rare with Unyielding and/or Unstoppable running. with dark melee these powers are much easier to maintain. The only real weaknesses are against those that drain your power that then make your powers shutoff prematurely which makes you vulnerable. or the use of Fear, which acts like a stun but is a different aspect in the game. Invul has no real defense vs. fear. also of course psionics. but just getting the right enhancements setup you can reduce all that some.
i honestly don't see any major changes to stun resistance tho.
Ever since the beginning, they've nerfed ATs to fix EVERY problem. They never thought to make an AT better... "Oh? Blasters too weak? Nerf scrappers!!!!"
And another thing... I don't know who the hell they think they're making happy by making "new" powersets that are exactly the same as other power sets, giving them different names, and maybe adding one power (usually not even..).
Conclusion: CoX devs are lazy
aren't masterminds the ones posi and gang built/tested as tanks? especially with BG mode.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
you really seem like you're comparing brute to tanker. brutes are not tankers.
and then you're comparing a tanker to a scrapper? but you're upset because brutes aren't tankers? i really have no idea what you're getting at, other than all powersets are not created equal in terrms of damage and defense. well duh.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Anofalye,
Your comparison of brutes to tanks is flawed. Brutes are damage dealers, more like scrappers than tanks. Masterminds were intended to be the tanks on V-side, according to Castle the dev.
Castle says in a recent post on the CoH forums:
BTW, here's something I don't think has ever been publicly stated before, but is "true" -- Masterminds were meant to be the Tanker equivalents on the Villainside, not Brutes. Brutes tend to overperform compared to what the original design was, they were meant to be closer to scrappers than to tankers. That mindset has evolved quite a bit based on how players are actually playing, but that was the original idea. And, before things go south, no, we aren't planning any changes based on that. I just wanted to offer a bit of "behind the scenes" insight.
boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php
EQ devs didn't intend monks to pull either. Brutes are the tanks for villains. Not MMs (they can't tank, so if the intend was to make them good tanks, LOL, it was a failure, not to mention they don't have taunt). And tankers have MORE basic damage than a brute.
This is not normal. Brutes have 1 thing...a strong potential, and they are very lames and weak at start because of this potential. Resisting status effect is just something which should be normal. Apparently, the devs think otherwise.
I dunno why you guys keep resurrecting this thread. My opinion will not change. You are only making me angrier. I am a game designer myself. I know when something is wrong. Especially when it is what I played the most.
I will recap my main issues:
- Brutes does 8% less damage than a tanker, they also have merely 75% of their defense/resist and a LOT less hps, the basic damage of a tanker should be 75% of a brute, without counting fury yet in. Now that would be a primary power (and don't nerf anyone, always upgrade those which need it). Tankers have more resists, more hps, more defense, this is a triple bonus...Brute should have more basic damage, more accuracy and fury. Not even considering the fact tankers have gauntlet on top of this here.
- Fury is way to volatile, it move too fast and have too much of an impact. Brutes need more basic damage, for about the same final result (kinda as if the fury meter always start at 33% but then it is harder to developp it, so the final result is about the same).
- Brutes have the BEST potential of any AT, damage/resist/defense/hps wise, but they are freaking lamers to start, how about reducing this potential a little and start better? Why do you put a damage cap of half the usual value on 1 brute power (Lightning Rod)? This make no sense. Does your job properly.
- Brute build up is the same as a tanker, while it should be the same as a scrapper, primary for both, you already affect the basic damage, no need to affect BU, both have it as a primary.
- Brutes needs a LOT more status protection, in order to be equivalent to tankers. They are tanking for villains...and tankers already have more resists, more hps and more defense. Brutes NEEDS this extra protection. Of course a soloer or casual player would not notice how badly brutes need it. But they really need it, badly. It is not normal that a brute get stunned for holding aggro and doing his job.
- Invul is underperforming compared to Granite. It is naturally appealing to players for DESIGN reasons, all the more reason to make it a VERY good choice for tanking. 9 powers which stacks should definitely make you very close to the best if not the best set for tanking, especially that except for a tiny too hit buff, they are all on the defense/resist, no other set is even remotedly as defense-focus as this one...Rock for example is dealing damage. If elves are popular, you don't nerf them. You are the main tank all the time up to level 37, and suddenly, no more you. There is something wrong here. You don't change such basics in the middle of the game/end of the game (initially there was only 40 levels).
- Energy Melee/Super Strenght are outdamaging scrappers...give these 2 sets to scrappers ASAP. (I know Brutes want broadswords even if I don't want them).
- Elect/Ela doesn't mix that well. Most defensive damaging power with the most offensive shields. Bad, bad, bad and bad. Nobody want to be the tallest dwarf, but many will be because they trust you with these set which seem to naturally blend...
- Brutes are underperforming. I dunno who make broad statements otherwise. Brutes are popular among players, but they are, underperforming. See, a set which is popular is not automatically strong. It may denote weakness elsewhere, a desire for a precise gameplay, design reasons (who can't relate to fury?)...and so on. See, best PvP groups are heroes...and if then you must pick villains, strangely the best group are mostly made of corruptors, or exceptionnally dominators/stalkers...brutes and MMs in PvP are a joke, they are underperforming...you don't build Fury over 40% in PvP...and at 40% you are merely where you should have been at start to be in between scrappers and tankers (not even considering the critical ability of the scrappers in). CoV is underperforming (amount of players). The most popular choices may very well all be underperforming.
And there must be many other...but these are those which come naturally to my mind as extremely annoying and unfair. Again, in my long list of flaws, I am also a game designer (flash games only if you want to cheap shot me, still...).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'm sorry, but it just appears to me that you're trying to pigeon-hole brutes into the tanking role to match the playstyle of tanks and they're just not the best option for the role (which I take is the argument you're making about them underperforming; that part I understand).
Every team I've been on with an MM, we've let it tank by using the minions as cannon fodder to take alphas and draw the intial ire of the mobs. Sometimes MMs even use the mins to pull. Then the brute(s) go in. Since the minions can't hold aggro, some of the mobs turn on the brutes and the fury starts building. Dispose of that group and quickly move to the next spawn in order to keep the fury built up.
It's been very effective.
Just out of curiosity, are you still playing the game, or did you move on? And if so, what are you playing? I'm looking for another game and would appreciate any recommendations (from you, or any other players reading this thread).
the 'city of' game is way far better than it was even just a year ago.
now, you may not get the exact adventures you want (i don't think there's any dragons to go slay, and i'm not being smart-alec, i think a few out of the ordinary adventures would be great); but, you can pretty much imagine the character you want to play and create it. humanoid shaped.
i used to say i'd play COx when they finally reached a little of the potential the game had. they've gotten to that point (imo).
there's way more map types, more story arcs, just more (and better) everything.
getting back to a new issue every 3-4 months would be great; but, oh well.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Other than costumes its a crappy game with zero imagination anyway. Your better off not playing it IMO.
WoWFusion - Kitame - [F]Troll - Shaman - Level 70 - 0/44/17 - [DW]Enhancement - <Allys Nightmare>
Your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't.
What would you like to see improved? What game do you currently play that incorperates something you really enjoy?
I see you play WoW. I've found elements of CoH in WoW. Does WoW have zero imagination? The blanket statement you feel that it's a crappy game is trolling. There are some posters who I disagree with, but at least they have their reasons, whether it's gameplay, how things have changed, or appearance. I respect those reasons. They have even chimed in saying what would have kept them playing, what changes they wanted to happen.
What you put down is childish, self centered and provides nothing to a person who is not familar to the game. I dislike the one off remarks that requires the audiance to be a mind reader. If your going to post, back up your arguments. We may not agree, but we can have a common ground.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
yeah, cuz all the games out there have time travel, dimensional travel, a dozen+ character classes, etc.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Even you yourself (OP) said you were Highly resistant to Mez... Not Impervious... taking 3-4 holds and still kicking is pretty good for mez protection considering squishies can't take one... What did you think you'd go through the entire game and never get mezzed? My first tank got mezzed for the first time recently... Did I lose my mind over it? No... Cuz It isn't a magic mez-b-gone power... It only makes me higly resistant to it... And fighting enough Carnies will do that to you.. And for a non tank class you can expect to get mezzed even more often. I think you're just overestimating yourself... You are not that good... You aren't some UBER brute who can never get mezzed... Get over it
Oh yeah, Jack Emmertt "Stateman" Was the nerfaholic behind CoH... He's the one behind all the crazy nerf of CoX.. Now that he's got the boot they are doing a lot less nerfing and more actual improvements which is why we got stuff like the XP smoothing.