bronks ... theres some truth in what you say .. there have been few good space tv shows stargate startrek ,battlestar galacitca,space above and beyond are the the only ones that spring to mind other than firefly . to be honest although i enjoyed it i can see why it was nt a success . the wild west in space theme was a bit hoaky and would ve put a lot of people off . but i did nt only mention tv show franchises that are more popular theres a huge amount of vastly more realised worlds in literature and film that would make great mmos , far better than a faliure of a tv series .
narnia , harry potter , terminator , aliens preditor , shannara , dc or marvel universe and dune all immediatly spring to mind as well as countless video games .
re battlestar galactica .. it may be over but it ll live on in the prequal series called caprica
As a self proclaimed Browncoat, I'd want to see this MMO become a success. The hitch, as others have pointed out, is that movie and TV based Ip's seem to fall short of gamers expectations.
The reasons for this, seems to be, that the big/small screen Ip franchise initialy brings in the gamers but the lack of a 'true to lore' storyline and/or intuititve game mechanics shows them the exits. This leads to the Ip based MMO's decline, in client numbers. Gamers want to experience the Ip's lore and have fun doing it, not have fun in a game loosely based on their favorite Ip's.
The line in the article; ...producing a “good Firefly game” as opposed to a “good game about Firefly”, is exactly the issue when it comes to consumer loyalty in franchise based games. It's fine to expect your chance at meeting a few of the Ip's stars, in game, and get your toons screenie oportunity with them. But, when faced with sketchy game mechanics or complete breaks in a franchise's established lore, your core clients lose interest, in the MMO.
In SWG, the game mechanics worked and the franchise was well established but the breaks in the lore were overwhelming. Although, you could see how the Reb. and Imp. players may infrequently need to do business with one another but this was never meant to be constantly or without serious consequences.
The fact that they, as players who have chosen sides between warring factions, could live together in the same player cities, was a break in immersion and established lore. Same can be said about Jedi and prospective jedi everywhere you turned.
The reason that SP games, based on major Ip's, tend to be better received when compared to MMO's is the immersion factor. ie- Your playing Spiderman in the spidy game.
In an MMO, there's a real need to stay within the lore's boundaries, more often than not, all the way through. In this, the upcomming AoC MMO, has a real opportunity to do just that, as it's a straight forward lore. Conan is the man and as a player when your in doubt, you stab it to death. Keep it dark, sensual and brutal and your Ip will keep it's core player-base.
As for Firefly's proposed ground/space mechanics, it seems like a winning combo., but I feel that it will end up competing with STO and/or a new SW:O, directly, as I can see them using the exact same formula.
Again, a 'true to lore', current graphically styled game, that's setup to run smoothly for it's client side, ingame, mechanics is not only the key to success, it's nothing more than the 'foundation' of tomorrow's MMO's.
I'd still welcome the Ip's release but I feel that it's facing serious sci-fi competition, in the near future, and that the formula, if handled improperly, would be called out as nothing more than a type of a re-skin clone MMO.
I want more movie and TV based MMO's but I want them to be the best game that they can be. If the 'foundation' isn't, always, a main focus or it's ingnored completely, in a new MMO, than forget making it and save the venture capital for ground breaking, yet, unknown lore type games. Let them be the high risk testing bed for future MMO's and leave the established Ip's fan-base intact.
In short, do it right or don't bother. Take stock of the 'foundation' and limit your overall risk and don't release a title during a saturated market, unless you can deliver something extraordinary to the consumer. Other than this, goodluck and see you at launch.
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
As for a Firefly game? I think a subscription based mmo might be wrong. Something along the likes of mission-based playing (like Guild Wars) could probably work. If not a GW-style game then something massively single player like Enlight Interactive's X-Universe of games would work pretty good and make gamers feel like they were involved in something similar to an MMO.
unless there is more than one Enlight Interactive Thats actually egosoft's X-universe games (Enlight Interactive is a publisher)
I can see FireFly working as a stand alone but not as a MMO for the reasons already stated. For the game to have any hope at all Joss has to be involved, it was his vision and creativity that made FireFly what it was.
funnily enough i ve just read an artical with joss whedon about firefly and rumours of a sequal to serenity .he has described it as wishfull thinking on the fans part . i think this really also applys equally to it as an mmo . sorry browncoats time to move , theres plenty on interesting new shows coming to interest you . this ones in the cult camp like space above and beyond and land of the giants . i dare say it ll carry on in some form over the years . maybe a single player game would work and if thats successful and after a few single player titles following it and maybe an expanded universe in literature as well then maybe just maybe an mmo would work . at present other than its relativly small but loyal fanbase it would lose out to the likes of stargate and a new star wars mmo
I really loved the Firefly universe, although I probably don't qualify as Browncoat. I really enjoyed the Tabletop RPG, but I don't think you could easily transfer such an openhand experience into something programmed. Too many balance and programming issues I suppose.
The Firefly Universe is the perfect setting for a space MMO. However, licensed MMO's are too restricted to work properly. SWG was a fine game when it first launched. The combat was ok, but the world was teaming with life and excitement. However, as everyone knows Fan Pressure and Player Jedi destroyed what could have been a great MMO.
Since then Sci Fi MMO's are basically treated as if they had lepracy. The last thing the world needs is another Sci Fi MMO going belly up due to a strong oppinionated fan base. On the otherside of the coin are the nay sayers that will point out that Firefly was a commercial failure and therefore a bad property for a game...
What would be cool and possibly crazy successful would be a Firefly MMO... without the actual pain of the Firefly license
Back, to waitting on a real space MMO... god SWG was close... but SOE is absolutely awesome at taking the best MMO's and running them into the ground.
I'd definately try a Firefly MMO if it came out. Certainately has potential, but would really need Whedon himself involved to make sure it lived up to fans' expectations.
There is a real lack of scifi type MMO's out there, so something liket his could really draw a respectable size player base.
IIRC, Joss isn't actually involved in the design process of the Firefly MMO. Multiverse obtained the licence from Fox and thats about the limit of concrete information that Multiverse have given out regarding this MMO. Also, I believe it wasn't Joss who wanted the original show cancelled, it was Fox who decided to close it even before the first series had finished being filmed.
Like I said before, I think there IS enough flexibility and holes in the current lore foundation to build upon. However, it would take someone like Joss himself to visualise the complexities of a lore filled universe in order to make it "feel" authentic and, dare I say the word, immersive.
As the OP points out, the best way to deal with something like this would be to keep things simple. Establish a core set of design principles:
Initially have it set as a "space" based game to limit the need for extensive development of varied terrain that is required on "ground" based games.
Allow players to move about on ships and space stations.
Perhaps have a small number of regional market areas to allow import and export of goods between those regions.
Keep the distances between the regions fairly large (but not too large to make space travel as tedious as MS Flight Sim 2008).
Keep stuff like crafting interaction minimal (no need for complex crafting from the start)
Keep ships in the most part expensive to act as a good money sink. Perhaps have lower priced fairly attainable flying "sheds" with small cargo space to very high priced cargo haulers and fighter type craft.
Include plenty of "consumable" items to also act as money sinks. E.g fuel for the ship, food and drink which is automatically consumed during the duration on your ship, ammo for weaponry.
Allow factions for both pvp based areas and pve (including an NPC based faction that players cannot play).
But most importantly, weave a VERY good lore foundation based on the series, movies and books. A lore foundation that is easy to pick up (for those non-series loving MMO players) to involving known scenarios, characters and factions that are found in the books etc.
If done correctly, such an MMO could actually help to increase the popularity of the firefly franchise overall to the point whereby possibilities open up.
But all this is based on an assumption that the development team actually know what they are doing in terms of technology, writing MMO's AND the firefly universe. It's a tall order, that much is for sure.
IIRC, Joss isn't actually involved in the design process of the Firefly MMO. Multiverse obtained the licence from Fox and thats about the limit of concrete information that Multiverse have given out regarding this MMO. Also, I believe it wasn't Joss who wanted the original show cancelled, it was Fox who decided to close it even before the first series had finished being filmed. Like I said before, I think there IS enough flexibility and holes in the current lore foundation to build upon. However, it would take someone like Joss himself to visualise the complexities of a lore filled universe in order to make it "feel" authentic and, dare I say the word, immersive. As the OP points out, the best way to deal with something like this would be to keep things simple. Establish a core set of design principles. Keep stuff like crafting interaction minimal (no need for complex crafting from the start), regional markets perhaps, ships that range from lower priced flying "sheds" to high priced cargo haulers and fighter type craft. But most importantly, weave a VERY good lore foundation based on the series, movies and books. A lore foundation that is easy to pick up (for those non-series loving MMO players) to involving known scenarios, characters and factions that are found in the books etc. If done correctly, such an MMO could actually help to increase the popularity of the firefly franchise overall to the point whereby possibilities open up. But all this is based on an assumption that the development team actually know what they are doing in terms of technology, writing MMO's AND the firefly universe. It's a tall order, that much is for sure.
I think that there is more to the Firefly world than people are acklowleding (though at least one person mentioned it).
What is attractive about Firefly is essentially the character roster and their interaction. That and the thick layer of humor.
I really don't see how the characters can be integrated in an mmo and maintain what actually makes the firefly world interesting. It's the characters. Otherwise the world is "ok".
If they were to make a Firelfy MMO it would essentially boil down to players running around a world/universe that could essentially be any sci-fi universe, doing mundane quests and essentially running into the firefly characters as npc's.
I just don't see the appeal. AFter a while players will realize that that they are not getting a Firefly experience.
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I think that there is more to the Firefly world than people are acklowleding (though at least one person mentioned it). What is attractive about Firefly is essentially the character roster and their interaction. That and the thick layer of humor. I really don't see how the characters can be integrated in an mmo and maintain what actually makes the firefly world interesting. It's the characters. Otherwise the world is "ok". If they were to make a Firelfy MMO it would essentially boil down to players running around a world/universe that could essentially be any sci-fi universe, doing mundane quests and essentially running into the firefly characters as npc's. I just don't see the appeal. AFter a while players will realize that that they are not getting a Firefly experience.
The same could be said about SWG when it was released (and I'm referring to pre-NGE). Yes being a Jedi is good as an ultimate goal, but not everyone wanted to be Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader. There were enough character foundations to build upon to appeal to a wide variety of people. There was a wide variety and choice of avenues to explore, character wise, to allow people to develop their characters how they liked and break away from the character moulds previously set in the films.
Likewise, not everyone wants to be a clone of Captain Mal. I've not read the Firefly novels, but I bet they include character foundations that aren't found in the series.
My point is that a Firefly based MMO does not have to be JUST about the characters inside Serenity in order for people to get the "Firefly experience". As you say, theres more to the 'verse than that. Yes the "Cappy" and his crew play a major part in the series, but so did Luke Skywalker in Star Wars, however not everyone wanted to be him in SWG.
Its all about how the game is presented and designed. Fill it with enough lore and choices and you may be surprised. However, make it into a game SOLELY about the crew of Serenity and you stifle peoples chances and being individual in their gameplay. It starts to look "too" linear. Then you've moved away from a possible good MMO foundation and made it into a single player game who's solely purpose is to promote sales of DVD's etc.
One thing that even the long-time MMO developers are STILL trying to wrap their heads around is one simple fact: A good MMO has lots and lots of variety and choices. Stifle the range of choices and your game becomes mediocre. SOE found out the hardway when they removed the amount of flexibility in SWG. Yes, on paper, having an MMO strictly adhere to ONLY the lore found in the films might sound like a sure fire money winner. But only on paper. It stops being a "persistent and evolving world" and starts to just be an advert for the films. But MMO's cost too much to just be a means of promoting the Firefly DVD's, an interactive advert that people dabble in from time to time. In order for an MMO to work, it needs a persisently large enough playerbase otherwise it's viewed as being dead and lifeless. And in order to attract a decently sized audience, the developers have to offer a truely evolving universe which makes the player feel like they are part of it, inside it. Not just watching it as if it was a film. Unfortunately, development on this scale costs a lot of money and a HELL of a lot of time. Something which investors in MMO's don't appreciate and thus demand that the product be released as quickly as possible.
Hi all, first off I would love to see and play a Firefly mmorpg, but I gotta wonder why multi verse just didn't try and get Marc Millers TRAVELLERtm and just use that, It's pretty much what firefly is and has been around as long as d&d 1st ed. just a thought, still will be looking forward to see what they do with firefly.
This series would have done so well if network execs would have just advertised it more. Heck, I didn't even know it was on televsion at the time it was airing. I didn't even know about the film, Serenity, until I happened to catch it on HBO a couple of weeks ago. Hands down, simply one of the best sci-fi films I've ever seen. I became totally engrossed in every character and when I can afford it, will be buying the film and the series on DVD. I would like to see something done with this series and not see it fade into oblivion (like what unfortunately happened to Babylon 5).
I knew it was being advertised but thought it as some whimpy social space program. It wasn't until I saw the TV ads for Serenity that I got hooked.
I'm a dice throwing Traveller player and was immediately drawn to Serenity because of the many adventures I had been on in the RPG Traveller. Much of the las 64 posts address issues that the game designers could draw upon from Traveller. Not that I'm a programmer, but a late freind of mine and I would spend hours thinking through how he would program that game. It has much the same feel as Firefly just in a much larger and well organized universe.
Myself, I would play even if it were crap. For that matter, if I had the cash I would fund it at a loss because all games live on with each new player and returning player. While it may not be successful right from the start it may be in time.
Maybe Babylon 5 did fade but it lasted five years and several made-for-TV movies. Firefly was good, but I'd rather see a B5 MMO even though it has been years since anything new aired. It simply is THE definitive example of fantastic Sci-Fi (all kudos aside to Dr. Who of course).
i could simply care less about the "ground game", any lawyer or dumbass suit dev wannabe can make an mmo with decent graphics. what they will need are content and story writers that know the particular storyline and wont cave to dumbass suits devs or lawyers.
as for the article using eve as an "example" for the space side, this would kill it for me. using the graphics sure, that would be outstanding, anything else from eve needs to go to the trash, we dont need a nother disney land space ride on rails. if "they" want a good space sim, then surely, kick ass graphics,zero lag, newtonian physics for space flight and weapons. we dont need missiles or lasers or guns to shoot through other objects, avatars or ships, or track through other objects like eve, thats crap. what you need is simplicity and semi realism both, easily done.
eve space combat is so dumbed down as to make it laughable. (eve purists may rant all they want, warp in, fire torpedos, missiles, lasers, they go through anything to hit the intended target, nuff said, dumbed down combat.)
last timed i check flying behind something would cause loss of track or cause whatever weapon that was fired to hit whatever when track was lost, but then with all the make it simple minded generation devs thinking inside their dixie cups i shouldnt wonder why.
and i wonder how they would implement the reavers........................................? (no big leap of the imagination there)
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
What a useless article. No new insights at all. I've heard all of this from various forum posts before and I'm not even watching the Firefly MMO. I was hoping for some more info on Multiverse. At any rate, don't expect much from a Firefly MMO as anyone who's tried out Multiverse will tell you. I seriously doubt even the engine will ever be finished, as lag and bugtastic a mess it is now, and I would actually bet money on whether or not they've even started production on a Firefly game.
I think the black/white comment about Star Wars was because that setting you're either "good" or "evil" .. period. There is no gray side of the Force in Star Wars.
Firefly there were many shades of gray, no character was Pure Good or Pure Evil... well maybe the Reavers...
The problem with developing such an MMO is preconception. You're developing into a well understood universe. This can work - look at Lord of the Rings Online: There's a world that has been fleshed out to the n-th degree over decades by fans, and then these ideas have been consolidated by a single developer team down to a playable game. But with Firefly there hasn't been the years of development in fleshing out the universe and all its nuance. I think it would be easy to overengineer this game - to dedicate time to building the things we saw in the film or series to a degree that we would recognise them, but forget that people play games based on such preconceived universes in order to explore the aspects of the universe that they haven't yet seen; they want to take the part of the universe that most resonated with them when they saw the film, say, and see into that apects history and find out more about its role in that world. Going back to the LotRO example, this is pretty easy since players have preconceptions about the game play universe - they have an idea of what to expect if they head down into a deep mine under a snow capped mountain range and therefore a game designer is able to simply generate a new "ancient drawven society". People will accept it because they expect it. In Firefly we have no such expectations - we land on a planet and the first thing we see is a horse tied up outside a saloon. So do we assume it's a "western" style world, or do we remember that in the series they also had quad-bikes and laser canons. I think each person who visits the world will come expecting their own preconceived view of the world is how it will be done, and then be disappointed when its not. I think this is the danger of taking on a concept based on what is essentially a small time show.
The model iteself sounds good on paper. In theory, Multiverse is a great concept. The company handles all the fiddly bits of your business model - the servers, the account management, the update deployments, and so on. This leaves a developer more time to work on the important parts of a game, namely the gameplay. The web site has been touting many up and coming games and provides tools and software kits for developers to try out their plaform. But other than demo games and beta products, where are the fully featured, fully populated, fully finished worlds? Is Firefly being developed for an untested and unused polatform? Going with Multiverse seems to be a big gamble for a game like this, since there's no proven track record on an existing game on the things that can make or break it, such as a well managed support ticketing system, thorough and safe account billing, well managed real-world sale items (if that is your model; and it does seem to be the growth area), server load management, and so on.
Firefly's engines may fire but this is no guarentee that it will get them off the ground.
Forum signatures are stupid and annoying. I've turned mine off.
The problem with developing such an MMO is preconception. You're developing into a well understood universe. This can work - look at Lord of the Rings Online: There's a world that has been fleshed out to the n-th degree over decades by fans, and then these ideas have been consolidated by a single developer team down to a playable game. But with Firefly there hasn't been the years of development in fleshing out the universe and all its nuance. I think it would be easy to overengineer this game - to dedicate time to building the things we saw in the film or series to a degree that we would recognise them, but forget that people play games based on such preconceived universes in order to explore the aspects of the universe that they haven't yet seen; they want to take the part of the universe that most resonated with them when they saw the film, say, and see into that apects history and find out more about its role in that world. Going back to the LotRO example, this is pretty easy since players have preconceptions about the game play universe - they have an idea of what to expect if they head down into a deep mine under a snow capped mountain range and therefore a game designer is able to simply generate a new "ancient drawven society". People will accept it because they expect it. In Firefly we have no such expectations - we land on a planet and the first thing we see is a horse tied up outside a saloon. So do we assume it's a "western" style world, or do we remember that in the series they also had quad-bikes and laser canons. I think each person who visits the world will come expecting their own preconceived view of the world is how it will be done, and then be disappointed when its not. I think this is the danger of taking on a concept based on what is essentially a small time show. The model iteself sounds good on paper. In theory, Multiverse is a great concept. The company handles all the fiddly bits of your business model - the servers, the account management, the update deployments, and so on. This leaves a developer more time to work on the important parts of a game, namely the gameplay. The web site has been touting many up and coming games and provides tools and software kits for developers to try out their plaform. But other than demo games and beta products, where are the fully featured, fully populated, fully finished worlds? Is Firefly being developed for an untested and unused polatform? Going with Multiverse seems to be a big gamble for a game like this, since there's no proven track record on an existing game on the things that can make or break it, such as a well managed support ticketing system, thorough and safe account billing, well managed real-world sale items (if that is your model; and it does seem to be the growth area), server load management, and so on. Firefly's engines may fire but this is no guarentee that it will get them off the ground.
A very balanced viewpoint and one that I agree with. Firefly might just have enough lore / background to entice people in but at the same time have enough "holes" in the lore and background to allow developers to "flesh" out the 'verse.
Its a big gamble. But if the developers give out enough lore information to fill those holes which were never touched on in the series / films / books etc and yet still manage to keep the exist lore / background intact, then it could work a lot better than taking a fully fledged fleshed out IP such as Star Wars.
Basically using Firefly as an MMO background is taking the best of both worlds from a completely fresh background or taking a completely fleshed out IP. On the other hand, it can backfire. Its just a matter of how the developers handle it.
The real challenge is to create a setting without any background, although Firefly has a TV show and a movie (perhaps novels, stories?). This is not so popular setting and that's why I wish the developers luck!
To ride a horse after you go out from a spaceship is a little weird, but sounds funny to me.
BTW, I think that there is no gray side anywhere in the literature, movies, games or real life. There is no good and evil, only point of view.
In SciFi its possible to go from ahigh tech environment to a low tech or even a low tech availibility environment. While it may seem funny to you, its not that uncommon.
In my own role playing days that was actually a great way of coning the locals out of precious items or to coerce cooporation from locals. funny or not I think it enevitable that cross tech encounters would occur. The challenge will be in developing the context of that encounter.
To be a naysayer here, I don't think it's a good idea. I'm a huge fan of the series as well as the movie. And quite frankly, though one could argue that world was not so fleshed out as to allow a game to capitalize on adding "new territory", it just doesn't have enough appeal to weather development costs and then to garner the subs. Let Firefly be the successful yet not so "commercially" successful hit that it is.
But I wanne be a reaver!
And tie you to my spaceship's exterieur!... alife!
The real challenge is to create a setting without any background, although Firefly has a TV show and a movie (perhaps novels, stories?). This is not so popular setting and that's why I wish the developers luck! To ride a horse after you go out from a spaceship is a little weird, but sounds funny to me. BTW, I think that there is no gray side anywhere in the literature, movies, games or real life. There is no good and evil, only point of view.
Its been awhile since I watched the series, I don't recall them riding horses out of the ship, even at all. Sure there's quad bikes and the "Mule" transporter (hovercraft thing in the film).
Perhaps we should watch the series again.........i certainly feel like a "Firefly / Serenity" night coming on hehe.
With regards to popularity, some would argue that Fox didn't give the series enough advertisement time which lead to the feeling that its not popular.
Given that it was Fox's idea to cancel the show about half way through the series, it explains why the series didn't get much coverage at the time. Had Fox felt otherwise, no doubt it would have gotten a much bigger advertisement budget and air time like Heroes.
But I digress, its a big undertaking to make a game which covers both land and space based action. It still think it requires a LOT of design time and background development, otherwise it will be a waste.
Comments
bronks ... theres some truth in what you say .. there have been few good space tv shows stargate startrek ,battlestar galacitca,space above and beyond are the the only ones that spring to mind other than firefly . to be honest although i enjoyed it i can see why it was nt a success . the wild west in space theme was a bit hoaky and would ve put a lot of people off . but i did nt only mention tv show franchises that are more popular theres a huge amount of vastly more realised worlds in literature and film that would make great mmos , far better than a faliure of a tv series .
narnia , harry potter , terminator , aliens preditor , shannara , dc or marvel universe and dune all immediatly spring to mind as well as countless video games .
re battlestar galactica .. it may be over but it ll live on in the prequal series called caprica
As a self proclaimed Browncoat, I'd want to see this MMO become a success. The hitch, as others have pointed out, is that movie and TV based Ip's seem to fall short of gamers expectations.
The reasons for this, seems to be, that the big/small screen Ip franchise initialy brings in the gamers but the lack of a 'true to lore' storyline and/or intuititve game mechanics shows them the exits. This leads to the Ip based MMO's decline, in client numbers. Gamers want to experience the Ip's lore and have fun doing it, not have fun in a game loosely based on their favorite Ip's.
The line in the article; ...producing a “good Firefly game” as opposed to a “good game about Firefly”, is exactly the issue when it comes to consumer loyalty in franchise based games. It's fine to expect your chance at meeting a few of the Ip's stars, in game, and get your toons screenie oportunity with them. But, when faced with sketchy game mechanics or complete breaks in a franchise's established lore, your core clients lose interest, in the MMO.
In SWG, the game mechanics worked and the franchise was well established but the breaks in the lore were overwhelming. Although, you could see how the Reb. and Imp. players may infrequently need to do business with one another but this was never meant to be constantly or without serious consequences.
The fact that they, as players who have chosen sides between warring factions, could live together in the same player cities, was a break in immersion and established lore. Same can be said about Jedi and prospective jedi everywhere you turned.
The reason that SP games, based on major Ip's, tend to be better received when compared to MMO's is the immersion factor. ie- Your playing Spiderman in the spidy game.
In an MMO, there's a real need to stay within the lore's boundaries, more often than not, all the way through. In this, the upcomming AoC MMO, has a real opportunity to do just that, as it's a straight forward lore. Conan is the man and as a player when your in doubt, you stab it to death. Keep it dark, sensual and brutal and your Ip will keep it's core player-base.
As for Firefly's proposed ground/space mechanics, it seems like a winning combo., but I feel that it will end up competing with STO and/or a new SW:O, directly, as I can see them using the exact same formula.
Again, a 'true to lore', current graphically styled game, that's setup to run smoothly for it's client side, ingame, mechanics is not only the key to success, it's nothing more than the 'foundation' of tomorrow's MMO's.
I'd still welcome the Ip's release but I feel that it's facing serious sci-fi competition, in the near future, and that the formula, if handled improperly, would be called out as nothing more than a type of a re-skin clone MMO.
I want more movie and TV based MMO's but I want them to be the best game that they can be. If the 'foundation' isn't, always, a main focus or it's ingnored completely, in a new MMO, than forget making it and save the venture capital for ground breaking, yet, unknown lore type games. Let them be the high risk testing bed for future MMO's and leave the established Ip's fan-base intact.
In short, do it right or don't bother. Take stock of the 'foundation' and limit your overall risk and don't release a title during a saturated market, unless you can deliver something extraordinary to the consumer. Other than this, goodluck and see you at launch.
* Life is not black or white, it's shades of grey. But, at it's best/worst, it hints at 32bit color. -Me (a.k.a. RuthlessTimes)
* I do not need to know how to make a better game than you. I just need to know how to cancel my subscription. -Antarious(a slight misquote but the sentiment remains)
unless there is more than one Enlight Interactive Thats actually egosoft's X-universe games (Enlight Interactive is a publisher)
I can see FireFly working as a stand alone but not as a MMO for the reasons already stated. For the game to have any hope at all Joss has to be involved, it was his vision and creativity that made FireFly what it was.
funnily enough i ve just read an artical with joss whedon about firefly and rumours of a sequal to serenity .he has described it as wishfull thinking on the fans part . i think this really also applys equally to it as an mmo . sorry browncoats time to move , theres plenty on interesting new shows coming to interest you . this ones in the cult camp like space above and beyond and land of the giants . i dare say it ll carry on in some form over the years . maybe a single player game would work and if thats successful and after a few single player titles following it and maybe an expanded universe in literature as well then maybe just maybe an mmo would work . at present other than its relativly small but loyal fanbase it would lose out to the likes of stargate and a new star wars mmo
there just isnt enough interest at present
I really loved the Firefly universe, although I probably don't qualify as Browncoat. I really enjoyed the Tabletop RPG, but I don't think you could easily transfer such an openhand experience into something programmed. Too many balance and programming issues I suppose.
The Firefly Universe is the perfect setting for a space MMO. However, licensed MMO's are too restricted to work properly. SWG was a fine game when it first launched. The combat was ok, but the world was teaming with life and excitement. However, as everyone knows Fan Pressure and Player Jedi destroyed what could have been a great MMO.
Since then Sci Fi MMO's are basically treated as if they had lepracy. The last thing the world needs is another Sci Fi MMO going belly up due to a strong oppinionated fan base. On the otherside of the coin are the nay sayers that will point out that Firefly was a commercial failure and therefore a bad property for a game...
What would be cool and possibly crazy successful would be a Firefly MMO... without the actual pain of the Firefly license
Back, to waitting on a real space MMO... god SWG was close... but SOE is absolutely awesome at taking the best MMO's and running them into the ground.
I'd definately try a Firefly MMO if it came out. Certainately has potential, but would really need Whedon himself involved to make sure it lived up to fans' expectations.
There is a real lack of scifi type MMO's out there, so something liket his could really draw a respectable size player base.
IIRC, Joss isn't actually involved in the design process of the Firefly MMO. Multiverse obtained the licence from Fox and thats about the limit of concrete information that Multiverse have given out regarding this MMO. Also, I believe it wasn't Joss who wanted the original show cancelled, it was Fox who decided to close it even before the first series had finished being filmed.
Like I said before, I think there IS enough flexibility and holes in the current lore foundation to build upon. However, it would take someone like Joss himself to visualise the complexities of a lore filled universe in order to make it "feel" authentic and, dare I say the word, immersive.
As the OP points out, the best way to deal with something like this would be to keep things simple. Establish a core set of design principles:
If done correctly, such an MMO could actually help to increase the popularity of the firefly franchise overall to the point whereby possibilities open up.
But all this is based on an assumption that the development team actually know what they are doing in terms of technology, writing MMO's AND the firefly universe. It's a tall order, that much is for sure.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I think that there is more to the Firefly world than people are acklowleding (though at least one person mentioned it).
What is attractive about Firefly is essentially the character roster and their interaction. That and the thick layer of humor.
I really don't see how the characters can be integrated in an mmo and maintain what actually makes the firefly world interesting. It's the characters. Otherwise the world is "ok".
If they were to make a Firelfy MMO it would essentially boil down to players running around a world/universe that could essentially be any sci-fi universe, doing mundane quests and essentially running into the firefly characters as npc's.
I just don't see the appeal. AFter a while players will realize that that they are not getting a Firefly experience.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The same could be said about SWG when it was released (and I'm referring to pre-NGE). Yes being a Jedi is good as an ultimate goal, but not everyone wanted to be Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader. There were enough character foundations to build upon to appeal to a wide variety of people. There was a wide variety and choice of avenues to explore, character wise, to allow people to develop their characters how they liked and break away from the character moulds previously set in the films.
Likewise, not everyone wants to be a clone of Captain Mal. I've not read the Firefly novels, but I bet they include character foundations that aren't found in the series.
My point is that a Firefly based MMO does not have to be JUST about the characters inside Serenity in order for people to get the "Firefly experience". As you say, theres more to the 'verse than that. Yes the "Cappy" and his crew play a major part in the series, but so did Luke Skywalker in Star Wars, however not everyone wanted to be him in SWG.
Its all about how the game is presented and designed. Fill it with enough lore and choices and you may be surprised. However, make it into a game SOLELY about the crew of Serenity and you stifle peoples chances and being individual in their gameplay. It starts to look "too" linear. Then you've moved away from a possible good MMO foundation and made it into a single player game who's solely purpose is to promote sales of DVD's etc.
One thing that even the long-time MMO developers are STILL trying to wrap their heads around is one simple fact: A good MMO has lots and lots of variety and choices. Stifle the range of choices and your game becomes mediocre. SOE found out the hardway when they removed the amount of flexibility in SWG. Yes, on paper, having an MMO strictly adhere to ONLY the lore found in the films might sound like a sure fire money winner. But only on paper. It stops being a "persistent and evolving world" and starts to just be an advert for the films. But MMO's cost too much to just be a means of promoting the Firefly DVD's, an interactive advert that people dabble in from time to time. In order for an MMO to work, it needs a persisently large enough playerbase otherwise it's viewed as being dead and lifeless. And in order to attract a decently sized audience, the developers have to offer a truely evolving universe which makes the player feel like they are part of it, inside it. Not just watching it as if it was a film. Unfortunately, development on this scale costs a lot of money and a HELL of a lot of time. Something which investors in MMO's don't appreciate and thus demand that the product be released as quickly as possible.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
This series would have done so well if network execs would have just advertised it more. Heck, I didn't even know it was on televsion at the time it was airing. I didn't even know about the film, Serenity, until I happened to catch it on HBO a couple of weeks ago. Hands down, simply one of the best sci-fi films I've ever seen. I became totally engrossed in every character and when I can afford it, will be buying the film and the series on DVD. I would like to see something done with this series and not see it fade into oblivion (like what unfortunately happened to Babylon 5).
Currently playing: No MMOs. They all suck.
I knew it was being advertised but thought it as some whimpy social space program. It wasn't until I saw the TV ads for Serenity that I got hooked.
I'm a dice throwing Traveller player and was immediately drawn to Serenity because of the many adventures I had been on in the RPG Traveller. Much of the las 64 posts address issues that the game designers could draw upon from Traveller. Not that I'm a programmer, but a late freind of mine and I would spend hours thinking through how he would program that game. It has much the same feel as Firefly just in a much larger and well organized universe.
Myself, I would play even if it were crap. For that matter, if I had the cash I would fund it at a loss because all games live on with each new player and returning player. While it may not be successful right from the start it may be in time.
Maybe Babylon 5 did fade but it lasted five years and several made-for-TV movies. Firefly was good, but I'd rather see a B5 MMO even though it has been years since anything new aired. It simply is THE definitive example of fantastic Sci-Fi (all kudos aside to Dr. Who of course).
...."and so it begins."
i could simply care less about the "ground game", any lawyer or dumbass suit dev wannabe can make an mmo with decent graphics. what they will need are content and story writers that know the particular storyline and wont cave to dumbass suits devs or lawyers.
as for the article using eve as an "example" for the space side, this would kill it for me. using the graphics sure, that would be outstanding, anything else from eve needs to go to the trash, we dont need a nother disney land space ride on rails. if "they" want a good space sim, then surely, kick ass graphics,zero lag, newtonian physics for space flight and weapons. we dont need missiles or lasers or guns to shoot through other objects, avatars or ships, or track through other objects like eve, thats crap. what you need is simplicity and semi realism both, easily done.
eve space combat is so dumbed down as to make it laughable. (eve purists may rant all they want, warp in, fire torpedos, missiles, lasers, they go through anything to hit the intended target, nuff said, dumbed down combat.)
last timed i check flying behind something would cause loss of track or cause whatever weapon that was fired to hit whatever when track was lost, but then with all the make it simple minded generation devs thinking inside their dixie cups i shouldnt wonder why.
and i wonder how they would implement the reavers........................................? (no big leap of the imagination there)
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What a useless article. No new insights at all. I've heard all of this from various forum posts before and I'm not even watching the Firefly MMO. I was hoping for some more info on Multiverse. At any rate, don't expect much from a Firefly MMO as anyone who's tried out Multiverse will tell you. I seriously doubt even the engine will ever be finished, as lag and bugtastic a mess it is now, and I would actually bet money on whether or not they've even started production on a Firefly game.
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"Firefly is a geometrically more complex beast. Star Wars was a much more black-and-white universe than Firefly."
Is this some kind of a joke?
The technology of Tau makes us strong!
I think the black/white comment about Star Wars was because that setting you're either "good" or "evil" .. period. There is no gray side of the Force in Star Wars.
Firefly there were many shades of gray, no character was Pure Good or Pure Evil... well maybe the Reavers...
The problem with developing such an MMO is preconception. You're developing into a well understood universe. This can work - look at Lord of the Rings Online: There's a world that has been fleshed out to the n-th degree over decades by fans, and then these ideas have been consolidated by a single developer team down to a playable game. But with Firefly there hasn't been the years of development in fleshing out the universe and all its nuance. I think it would be easy to overengineer this game - to dedicate time to building the things we saw in the film or series to a degree that we would recognise them, but forget that people play games based on such preconceived universes in order to explore the aspects of the universe that they haven't yet seen; they want to take the part of the universe that most resonated with them when they saw the film, say, and see into that apects history and find out more about its role in that world. Going back to the LotRO example, this is pretty easy since players have preconceptions about the game play universe - they have an idea of what to expect if they head down into a deep mine under a snow capped mountain range and therefore a game designer is able to simply generate a new "ancient drawven society". People will accept it because they expect it. In Firefly we have no such expectations - we land on a planet and the first thing we see is a horse tied up outside a saloon. So do we assume it's a "western" style world, or do we remember that in the series they also had quad-bikes and laser canons. I think each person who visits the world will come expecting their own preconceived view of the world is how it will be done, and then be disappointed when its not. I think this is the danger of taking on a concept based on what is essentially a small time show.
The model iteself sounds good on paper. In theory, Multiverse is a great concept. The company handles all the fiddly bits of your business model - the servers, the account management, the update deployments, and so on. This leaves a developer more time to work on the important parts of a game, namely the gameplay. The web site has been touting many up and coming games and provides tools and software kits for developers to try out their plaform. But other than demo games and beta products, where are the fully featured, fully populated, fully finished worlds? Is Firefly being developed for an untested and unused polatform? Going with Multiverse seems to be a big gamble for a game like this, since there's no proven track record on an existing game on the things that can make or break it, such as a well managed support ticketing system, thorough and safe account billing, well managed real-world sale items (if that is your model; and it does seem to be the growth area), server load management, and so on.
Firefly's engines may fire but this is no guarentee that it will get them off the ground.
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A very balanced viewpoint and one that I agree with. Firefly might just have enough lore / background to entice people in but at the same time have enough "holes" in the lore and background to allow developers to "flesh" out the 'verse.
Its a big gamble. But if the developers give out enough lore information to fill those holes which were never touched on in the series / films / books etc and yet still manage to keep the exist lore / background intact, then it could work a lot better than taking a fully fledged fleshed out IP such as Star Wars.
Basically using Firefly as an MMO background is taking the best of both worlds from a completely fresh background or taking a completely fleshed out IP. On the other hand, it can backfire. Its just a matter of how the developers handle it.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
The real challenge is to create a setting without any background, although Firefly has a TV show and a movie (perhaps novels, stories?). This is not so popular setting and that's why I wish the developers luck!
To ride a horse after you go out from a spaceship is a little weird, but sounds funny to me.
BTW, I think that there is no gray side anywhere in the literature, movies, games or real life. There is no good and evil, only point of view.
The technology of Tau makes us strong!
In SciFi its possible to go from ahigh tech environment to a low tech or even a low tech availibility environment. While it may seem funny to you, its not that uncommon.
In my own role playing days that was actually a great way of coning the locals out of precious items or to coerce cooporation from locals. funny or not I think it enevitable that cross tech encounters would occur. The challenge will be in developing the context of that encounter.
And tie you to my spaceship's exterieur!... alife!
You never let me do anything fun!
Its been awhile since I watched the series, I don't recall them riding horses out of the ship, even at all. Sure there's quad bikes and the "Mule" transporter (hovercraft thing in the film).
Perhaps we should watch the series again.........i certainly feel like a "Firefly / Serenity" night coming on hehe.
With regards to popularity, some would argue that Fox didn't give the series enough advertisement time which lead to the feeling that its not popular.
Given that it was Fox's idea to cancel the show about half way through the series, it explains why the series didn't get much coverage at the time. Had Fox felt otherwise, no doubt it would have gotten a much bigger advertisement budget and air time like Heroes.
But I digress, its a big undertaking to make a game which covers both land and space based action. It still think it requires a LOT of design time and background development, otherwise it will be a waste.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's