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Developers out of touch with today's gamers?
Battleskar
Member Posts: 341
Hello! mmorpg community! I have been hangin out a little bit reading some of the posts here today and is it me or does it just seem like the game companies just do not have a feel for what us gamers really want in a game. I myself love the sci-fi genre,and have yet to find a game in this genre that I really enjoyed. Eve online had some appeal but to me it was still missing the element of freedome to leave a ship or land on a planet and be able to fully explore a strange new place. Star Wars Galaxies in its Pre-Cu form was real close to possibly being the greatest game ever created ,but it still lacked and felt incomplete. If SWG would have not been rushed to the sales floor,and would have been released with the space game and with ground vehicles at launch it could have been the wow of mmos today. I personally want games that really make me feel like I am the charactor I am playing. I want to log in and feel like I am in some distant world and actually feel like I am there (Saga Of Ryzom did a nice Job in this dept.). If any developers happen to read this psot not all gamers want a game like wow,we want a variety of games ,and not a bunch of clones. I played SWG until they started screwing with the combat system. I loved the game for what it was.I played wow and liked it fine for what it was. Corporations like SOE should let the games be influenced by the customers who play them and not the executives that have no clue. I think WoW is such a success is the fact for the most part the core game is basically the same as it was when it released. Anyway a long post but I felt compelled to post my opinion. To all my fellow gamers have fun in whatever game you play:P
Comments
I think the bigger problem in the gaming industry is how narrowly representative the developers are. Most get jobs by being friends with people already in the industry. Having a close-nit grouping like this obviously would show a selective taste.
I disagree.
The developers may be out of touch with a small group of hardcore gamers (no matter how you define it). However, the fact that the MMORPG market has expanded to ~17M subscribers (with WOW leading the charge) shows that developers are certainly not out of touch with the market/consumers.
Even if they were "in-touch" ... meaning knowing all your concerns and issues, they may choose to IGNORE you and go for the biggest market. I would not blame them for doing that because if I am making a game, I would like it to have a larger audience (more people enjoying my game) and a larger financial success.
Having said all that, there are quite a few upcoming sci-fi MMOs (Stargate Worlds, for example) that you may like.
I agree with you on the fact of the money making side of things ,but thr reason wow did so well imo is it released at the perfect time, swg players were pissed off ,EQ2 did not have a good launch,players were getting tired of older games like age of cona,ac2 was not doing well ,and the list goes on. Another reason wow did so well was because Blizzard had a history of polished games and a large warcraft following. That does not mean the game was That Good. WoW is a clone of what we have already had and was just more polished than any we have seen. Now how many out of the alleged 10 million are not from the U.S. ,and how many are gold farming employees?
If I were to make a game I wouldn't give two S@$%s what this community would want. Hardcore MMOers(gamers, or anything) ruin games and dominate the ways that players can contact the developers(a slim minority of the constituency to boot).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
We see this all the time:
New game announced with revolutionary new features, and great new ideas.
Game comes out, and has none of those things.
Why? Because it had to be out by a certain deadline, and so these features were cut. Or the producers were afraid that it would deviate too far from mainstream, and not attract that WoW demographic.
Just for once I would like to see a game released which realized the vision of it's developers, without being hampered by corporate penny pinchers.
Moderation results in mediocrity.
Sorry, can't vote in your poll as it is skewed a bit.
I think more to the point, you are saying that game companies are not in touch with what YOU want.
That's all fine.
But personally I don't want a virtual world that I have to live in. I want a game. At the moment the game Aion seem very close to what I want, but we'll see. I'm also more interested in fantasy games. Apparently there are a lot of people who feel the same way.
And who says games are not influenced by the customers who play them? Corporations make products that people will buy. If people didn't buy them they would make something else. Clearly there is money to be made in the games that are currently out.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
the only real people that are out of touch are the ones making the big decisions.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Sorry, can't vote in your poll as it is skewed a bit.
I think more to the point, you are saying that game companies are not in touch with what YOU want.
That's all fine.
But personally I don't want a virtual world that I have to live in. I want a game. At the moment the game Aion seem very close to what I want, but we'll see. I'm also more interested in fantasy games. Apparently there are a lot of people who feel the same way.
And who says games are not influenced by the customers who play them? Corporations make products that people will buy. If people didn't buy them they would make something else. Clearly there is money to be made in the games that are currently out.
So all restaurants should become McDonald's because that's what sells, so obviously that's what everyone wants, except for the few outsiders, and they don't matter anyway....
I'd say it's more than certain groups of gamers (most likely a lot of people on this board) are out of touch with what the vast majority of gamers want and actively pay $14.99 a month for. Developers pretty much do as our money asks them to.
I would say that some developers listen too much.
Everyone complains about how WoWs PvP is solely focused on the Arena now but it was the players that led WoWs direction to this.
Back in the old days when it was South Shore vs Tarren Mill people complained that questing in the zone was near impossible because of the lag from 100+ people fighting. Also, the strain of those battles was too much for some servers and it would cause crashes frequently.
So, Blizzard focused the PvP on the instanced Battlegrounds and things were fine for a while. But then people started complaining again. They complained that PvP was reliant on grouping with a bunch of morons and long queue times.
Well, Blizzard implemented the Arena which was small team PvP and again it was fine for a while. People are complaining once again, now they want world PvP back. And, guess what, theres a world PvP zone in WotLK.
It's a viscious cycle that the players are too stupid to see and Blizzard cant do anything about.
Catering to every fickle whim the players have will only end poorly for the developer and the players in the end.
At least in the WOW case, the players do have the choice of arena & BGs, which do not affect the world in averse ways.
I think it is great to have choices of the kind of PvP in WOW.
Not just devs, most peoples are out of touch with "today's gamers".
Devs, last time I check, don't have 3 arms, eating hamsters and green skin, nor are they living on Mars...so Devs qualify as "most peoples".
MMORPG.com is definitely out of touch with today's gamers as well, lost in a megalomaniac epic PvP gankfest. But I still like this website, as everyone, including today's gamers, would post here. (Today gamers would not have a posts count in the many K or even more...and wouldn't even bother talking in a thread like here)
As to myself, I try to open my mind and tolerate as many different peoples as I could, never knowing if they are "today's gamers" or not. I can't tolerate raiders or PvPers/gankers, but they definitely don't represent today's gamers. No idea if I would fit happily with today's gamers, althought I sure hope so. Even if I would most likely be abusing their game in a way or another, it could be a positive abuse if the devs are bright (positive for the game, the majority and for me as a player, as these are not necessarily exclusive).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Developers are NOT out of touch with gamers today.
As long as people pay $15/month for the garbage companies put out today they are very much in touch with how to make money off of them.
People are actually paying to play games like Vanguard, SWG (NGE aweful version), MxO, PoBS, Lineage, Tabula Rasa (somehow), CoH/CoV (which has almost NO depth, and other stinkfests.
10 million people pay to play WoW... That's amazing to me. WoW at least offers a polished and stable game to play, the others I've listed with the exception of CoH/CoV are so bugged and empty they are barely more than single player RPGs with a few other players scattered in a bugged virtual world.
AoC and Warhammer are really just offering the same cooke-cutter elementary gameplay all the others do, with new skins. They are bringing no innovation to the gaming world.
EVE is the only game right now that offers something different. I didn't even like EVE that much but I do appreciate the fact that it isn't a cookie-cutter linear pile of junk like the others.
Tecmo Bowl.
Live with it or walk away, but hold you contempt to yourself, as you are no bigger or smaller in statue to any of the other people around.
The problem is, they're really only in touch with one particular type of gamer and they have no interest in pursuing anyone else. It's like saying "People like to drink Coke, therefore everyone should just make derivative copies of Coke." Doing that, you miss out on people who want to drink Dr. Pepper or Mountain Dew.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Visually different perhaps but when you really sit down and look at it, it's not all that great. You have 5000 cookie-cutter solar systems you can fly through, all with d4 space stations and d6 planets and/or moons, each with 2d4 asteroid belts where you can collect generic ores so you can upgrade your ship... oh wait, you can't really upgrade your ship, you just have to keep buying new ones. That's what the whole economy is built on after all, people having to buy new ships. The biggest problem, at least for me, is the fact that you *ARE* your ship, no matter what care you put into your avatar at the beginning, you can't get out of your ship and do anything. It's really pointless to have all the planets and moons because they're just eye candy, you can't land on any of them or do anything or build anything of your own. All of the space stations are the same, just generic places to land and switch out parts and process ore.
There's nothing really all that different or exciting about it.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Sorry, can't vote in your poll as it is skewed a bit.
I think more to the point, you are saying that game companies are not in touch with what YOU want.
That's all fine.
But personally I don't want a virtual world that I have to live in. I want a game. At the moment the game Aion seem very close to what I want, but we'll see. I'm also more interested in fantasy games. Apparently there are a lot of people who feel the same way.
And who says games are not influenced by the customers who play them? Corporations make products that people will buy. If people didn't buy them they would make something else. Clearly there is money to be made in the games that are currently out.
So all restaurants should become McDonald's because that's what sells, so obviously that's what everyone wants, except for the few outsiders, and they don't matter anyway....
Or conversly more inline with the poll, all McDonald's should become something else because that is not what a few people want.....Not saying I agree in principle, more choices is always better, allows more people to enjoy themselves, however your argument holds no water.
Live with it or walk away, but hold you contempt to yourself, as you are no bigger or smaller in statue to any of the other people around.
Because you are so defensive in regards to my post you fail to see my point, I'll assist you in that...
As long as people are willing to pay for games that developers currently offer (even the truly poorly developed ones) then they are very much in touch with how to make money off of the customers.
Obviously you fall in that category. I'm not better than anyone else but there is a sheep mentality when it comes to online games. People pay to play because they seem to accept the fact that games offer the same thing, really nothing new.
As long as people are willing to pay monthly for garbage they can expect garbage to be developed.
Tecmo Bowl.
If you look at metacritics.com, lots of MMOs get high review scores. So are the reviewers sheep too?
Or is everyone a sheep except you?
It's no secret that since MMO's have come out of the "geek" age and into the mainstream, MMO development has overwhelmingly become about making the almighty dollar in the fastest way possible. The developers will do whatever it takes to get the most income into their coffers. If that means pumping out WoW clone after WoW clone, that's what they will do. Apparently it works, because people keep laying down their money for these games, which tells other developers to keep doing the same thing.
Think about it if it were YOUR money that you had to spend for the development of a game. You have to take every dime out of every account you own, mortgage your house, and sell your dog to raise the money to develop a new MMO. Would you want to create a game that you really enjoy, but only about 20,000 other people would like, or would you want a game that was pretty boring to you, but 5 million people would like to play? This is a difference of recouping the money from your initial investment and breaking even in 3 years, or 1 month.
What would you do? If you chose the "getting money the fastest way possible" option, you get a gold star and you are now a successful game developer.
IMO, once WOW dies down we'll really see what the "market" wants. All of the new MMO players that WOW brought in will be looking for a new MMO and I'd be willing to be that many of them won't stick around for a clone of the game they just got tired of...
To me, the "Make a WoW foundation" is a dying breed, but is being replaced with the GW field. Free-to-play is becoming a bigger market, especially when you make more money after-market (Some F2Ps use premium pricing plans, ie to get goooood items you pay), but, like the P2P market, you get a lot of bunk.
What would be the best MMO? One that does give plenty of player choice, more varied races (ie real 3D characters like centaurs and nagas), a decent story, good real-time combat (ala PSO), and the ability to choose PVE or PVP (via servers if needed). I'll be waiting while a good MMO comes around.
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
The developers know that they are out of touch. They are activily seeking input to make their games better. They want to give the players what they want.
I know this because the company I work for is doing a study to find out what the player wants.
They have just started collecting basic information from players in order to form a panel to give the developer feedback. Once the panel is in place, future studies will be conducted for your opinions on more specific things.
Anyway - if you want a chance to tell them what you think - sign up -
http://www.webopinions.org/studies/c59/80234/default.asp
This is just the qualifier for more things to come.
Unfortunately, unless they do a real survey, they won't get anything. Instead of making a qualifying remark of playing a mainstream MMORPG (I got disqualified because I play Fiesta), just ask what I want. Would I be willing to pay for a good MMO? Yes. Am I going to just to answer a survey? No.
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
I think they listen too much to the gamers. As with a lot of things whoever cries the loudest gets the attention and the game turns into a bloated unbalanced mess.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!