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Death Penalty
ProfRed
Member UncommonPosts: 3,495
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30408
I like it, but I wish it was harsher. I'd love to see items and gold drop too.
Comments
Interesting,I do like it but likeprofred said maybe a little harsher would have been better,That was 1 of the things I liked about VG were your items etc also dropped.
I wonder how it works in an instanced dungeon though?
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
I hope that the game remains true to the casual player base. Once upon a time I was younger and had more free time, now I have limited play time. I could do without the timesinks introduced for players with tons of free time, if the game was made to be played by casuals just like me.
Remains to be seen.
Btw, the stats hit remains to be decided for retail.
I wouldn't mind a death system like Asherons Call I had.
You lost an item and your stats were lowered for a period of time or until you fought it off in PvE.
Stings a bit but not to much but not to little because you don't want to loose to many items
Maybe they could do it so if you died in PvE in a group your groupmembers had the oppertunity to pick up your item for you but in PvP it would drop to the ground for your nemesis to pick it up.A nice little extra reward in PvP but nothing that would cripple you because items would go back and forth in PvP.
___________________________________________
Here is the DP quote.
"This is something we’re still messing with in beta at the moment, so these words should not be held as Gospel truth, but as a statement of where we are now. At the moment, there are no corpse runs, but once you return to the land of the living at a resurrection point, there is a debuff (stat hits) for dying. This debuff can be taken away by running back to where you died, finding your tombstone, and clicking on it. This works the same in PvP, so it would only be a few minutes before you’re back in the fray. However, the death penalty can be quite significant. If one guy has a huge death penalty and the other does not, the guy with the death penalty will probably lose the fight (all things being equal, of course). - Kalanthes"
This is extremely similar to Asherons Calls death penalty, however, instead of burning it off with exp, it takes time or recovering your gravestone.
Im not sure if anyone remembers what 15% Vitae was really like, but this penalty can be EXTREMELY harsh, especially in a pvp environment when you cant get to your gravestone... you could be in for a rather harsh time till it drops.
I too would prefer it being on an exp burned event as long as people are worth exp for pvp it would be fine, however, if not, this isnt to bad. Definitely more harsh than wow.
Stupid! Sigh...I keep hoping for FFA death looting but oh well. Maybe they can make one server that is noncarebear. A FFA pvp with FFA looting.
A player dies, all their equipment drop (or at least their backpack). PVP with new games has become pointless. UO was good and so was shadowbane.
You cant have a full looting system with a game that is built for grinding items. Neither UO or Shadowbane were like that. They were more of your sims sword and magic style with generic items. People didn't run around in full plate suits of Invulnerability, nor were they PvP'ing with a Katana of Vanquishing. UO and SB were crafter based and only that kind of game would work.
I would sure be pissed if I grinded for months and months to complete a set of armor, only to get killed somewhere and lose it on in seconds. We all love some sort of realism in our games, just not that much.
One can only hope that Darkfall or Mortal Online ever get their act together and actually make another game like early UO.
Personaly I hope they continue to design the mechanics of the game as hardcore as they make it look. I am not big on magic items (even though thats the direction most MMORPGs have gone) and think that if they made it like the old UO system it would be alot more fun. You can go to the extent of lobbing a guys head off but you can't loot his body? Cmon.. Atleast give us a "hardcore" server so people have the option. This is some what of a contraversal issue amongst gamers but it is because there are obviously a number of us out there that want this type of looting system, the only thing is we get 1 game out of 50 that offers it. I realize there will always be people that do not want to take part in that sort of game play, which is why they can offer pve, pvp, rp pvp, hardcore pvp.
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
Im all for a hardcore loot server, the problem is, if items are extremely powerful like Eq, EQ2, WoW, etc etc... then we run into a big problem.
If items are like UO (at release, not now) then its acceptable.
Items more or less make the call on whether we can have full loot or not.
Im not in beta so not sure about items, but it will probably be more like EQ,EQ2, and WoW... so as folks have said, spending 3 weeks on getting "Sword of Doom" only to lose it when you get ganked by 6 people wont be so much fun.
Granted you can make items no drop and such to bypass that... but then whats the point in full loot if items are "blessed".
I doubt AoC will rework the game specifically for a hardcore pvp server, as thats more or less what it would require (assuming of course items have many +'s)
I wouldn't hold your breath Xasapis, its been my experience in the past if a game offers a housing system and or a player based town system, its not going to be a casual gamer system. It usualy requires hours and hours to achieve these sorts of things (and rightfuly so). Thats not to say anyone can't log in a play when they have time, you can do that in any game, you may just find it hard to get yourself a piece of real estate if your not going to invest the time needed.
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
ill speak in terms of wow for a comparison in death penalty.It would be great if you 'drop money when u were dieing ,lets say 50silver per death,or even you would have a chance 1% to drop an item of your inventory.Corpse running or lowering stats its just silly.You need to give both the attacker and the defender a good motivation.Attacker and prolly the winner,will have his decent loot awarded and the defender prolly the looser,will have its 'penalties' . It would work great imo
From what I have read so far, I haven't seen any magic items other then socketing gems to enhance a piece of gear. Yeah I doubt they would rework the game for hardcore pvp but it could be something they have on the back burner that they're not mentioning at this time.
Heres hoping!
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
Items and money come and go but I think the worst death penalty is a exp hit. In Lineage2 you can grind for 2 or 3 hours then die once and its all gone.. lol thats the worst. If the game isn't going to follow suit with regards to all the other MMORPGs out there and base they're loot around high powered magic items, leaving us to use the finest crafted items in all the land, I say let the craftables drop. I mean take into consideration the objective of the game, its war. Anyone that read the old Conan comics from the 70's (which is what the game is based on) knows they were not for the faint of heart, nor should the game be.
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
From what I have read so far, I haven't seen any magic items other then socketing gems to enhance a piece of gear. Yeah I doubt they would rework the game for hardcore pvp but it could be something they have on the back burner that they're not mentioning at this time.
Heres hoping!
Apparently you haven't read much at all. There are supposed to be hundreds of sets throughout the 80 levels. There are 8 raid dungeons that are set up in a step by step progression, just like WoW. If you don't think AoC is going to be gear based, then you are fooling yourself. Full looting will never work in AoC. Sorry.
/on
Nope, that's still carebear. You die and you get away with just losing your items? Pfft.The player who PKed you should be given the option to kill your character for good (permadeath) or to keep your character as his pet.
Then your character will be displayed as PlayerName<PlayerKillerName's Pet>. You can only train pet skills as long as you're someone's pet. You get to challenge your master once a week, without any armour and only pet skills active. If you beat him, you'll be set free (back to player skills and not attackable by PlayerKillerName for 1 hour).
You cannot play a new character on any server while one of your characters is a pet.
Pets *will* fetch their master's slippers when asked to and *will* purr when they're patted.
Pets cannot fall to their death.
/off
Anyway, I think the death penalty on AOC is just fine. Any penalty that gives you a noticeable enough disadvantage so as to make you think twice and not be totally reckless should be good enough.
AoC has said from the start that their combat system is deigned to favor the skilled player over the geared player (although gear as always will play a roll). But when pvp turns into a numbers game, it only favors the firts few grp's that go on the ganking spree.
I'm not against a harsh DP of Players dropping loot of some sort, but ALL their equipment is too much.. 1 death at mid-max lvl and you have less equipment than you did at lvl 1 unless you have lived long enough to maybe aquire 2 sets of gear and keep 1 in the bank.. but you would keep losing your first set along the way making a back-up set almost impossible to aquire.
also full looting would almost have to be solely in a world pvp enviroment (which is the pvp i prefer) but you wouldn't leave town without a grp, which means alot of ppl would never experience most of the game because the grp is gonna want to lvl and as human nature goes once the best route from 1 - 80 is found those would be the only visited places.. pretty much destroying all exploration.
With all the "something for nothing" kiddies coming up in the MMO world now, and the lack of things past such as the "Black Lists" and honor in beating someone 1 on 1... and the new found "ZOMG U got Pwnt by me and 6 of my 1337 sauce buddies and now we have your 6 months worth of gear" Full looting is a bad idea and doubt many games will try it or implement it.. and if they do give it it's own server i highly doubt the population would be high enough to justify keeping it.
Well I disagree there.
Full loot isnt a problem. Loot itself is the problem.
If crafted loot is the highest tier gear, then we are fine with full loot.
If there is an epic raiding system like wow's with multiple tiers of uber loot, then full loot is an issue.
So whether full loot works or not is completely dependent on the types of gear.
In order to have full loot you need two things:
If those two are not present, forget about full looting, it will make more harm than good to a game.
AoC was not designed for full loot due to point 2.
Lineage 2 was not designed for full loot due to point 1.
EVE is designed for full loot due to no points present.
From what I have read so far, I haven't seen any magic items other then socketing gems to enhance a piece of gear. Yeah I doubt they would rework the game for hardcore pvp but it could be something they have on the back burner that they're not mentioning at this time.
Heres hoping!
Apparently you haven't read much at all. There are supposed to be hundreds of sets throughout the 80 levels. There are 8 raid dungeons that are set up in a step by step progression, just like WoW. If you don't think AoC is going to be gear based, then you are fooling yourself. Full looting will never work in AoC. Sorry.
Thanks for the apology, I wasn't aware you had the final say on what will work and what won't
Maybe they should let the community vote via the official website, it would be interesting to see what kind of numbers show up and for which type of looting system. (Just a thought)
Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.
-T
Yup, it sure would be nice to see full looting again. After all this time I still play good old UO, it's the only game I keep going back to. Unfortunately, now adays everyone wants the world handed to them on a platter with no risk and uber rewards. It looks like AoC is just a different theme stamped with the massive multi-player online cookie cutter.
Meh.
Sooo since this game is NOT going to have ridiculous death penalties you don't have to waste any more time writing how good the old games had it. Here's an idea for all the 'hardcore' weenies out there - go play UO, EQ, Shadowbane or whatever game meets your criteria for ewber hardcore instead of complaining about a game that's not meeting your idea of perfection. Why aren't you playing them?? Naked corpse runs still not hardcore enough for you?
It's like you use some small part of the game to pump up your own self esteem. Get over yourself and go find a game that fits your style. Sheesh. What a bunch of whiners.
You "Hard-Core" people are going to have to learn economics one day. There is little to no money in making a game that is FFA Loot. If you make something and it only caters to a small % of people all you've done is screwed yourself over. Sucks to be you. Dont just complain when someone eles does something you dont like. If you dont like it, dont buy it, that'll show em. But you'll probly buy it and then b*tch becouse it doesn't have this or it doesn't have that.
If I killed someone, why would I want their equipment, it obviously didn't help them any. I'd take the money though.
UO did very well at release, but it was the only game at the time I'm sure you will say.
Shadowbane did horrible, however, that had nothing to do with FFA, more due to horrible UI and character controls not to mention bugs.
Then there is EvE the only game made pre-2004 that is still growing.
So exactly where do you get your facts that FFA isnt profitable? 2 out of 3 games that had it were extremely profitable.
Give 1 server with FFA full loot and let it roam wont hurt would it, it would actuelly increase the amount of subs since the hardcore players want some lov'n