Yea here's the thing. Part of the reason you had such fond memories of eq is because it was A NEW idea and MMO's were relativly new at the time. EQ2 is alot like eq1 only the graphics are better. I dont play eq2 and my memories of eq1 are definatly much higher on the good times list than eq2... Reason... because it was new... Now there are 23849723 MMO's out there all of which are a little different than each other. EQ1 was special because MMo's were a new idea for the most part when it came out.
IMO something big will happen to MMO's in the next few years that will open it up but for now we have to deal with the literal hundreds of Crappy games that are coming out because they all want a piece of the WOW pie. They are a piece of something but it smells worse than pie. As the poster said before me ... you probably won't recognise it.
Tbh: hopefully not. Eq1 represented EVERYTHING that KEPT me away from MMOs until the later era! Harsh penalities, endless waiting for boss mob spawns asf. No thanks! Sorry for being so blunt, but thats how I feel about it.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
I think what he meant by another eq1 type game was as soon as we logged into the game we felt like we we're there, there world didn't feel bland it felt alive, there was things (repetitive but still things) to do
it reminded me of uo 3d but with levels
I personally would love to see a uo type game but in 3d...but darkfall will never be released and shadowbane was close but was flawed
I think something should be done instead of getting levels
come up with something new but eq1 sort of style that would be sweet
even in EQ2 you felt like you we're there the cities we're alive the npc's talked to you it was cool...but eq2 is boring
im rambling and im stoned and im tired sorry if this didn't make any sense
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
*CLAPS* *CLAPS*
The biggest problem i have with WOW is that it changed the business aspect of MMO's.. The bar is set much higher now on the numbers needed to be considered a success..And if theres one thing ive learned it is that i do not like the games that are made for the masses.. for example all the comments i just heard about harsh penalties and waiting on named mobs are the things i like about a game. because god forbid you have to earn something. Now i respect that others don't want to deal with that stuff but i like those elements of a game. This is why i like EvE so much .. You blow up and you dont respawn in a station with a new ship and all of your stuff in tact. Everyone wants reward without risk but in the end if you follow the thinking through what you find is that without risk is there really such a thing as reward? Special ships are nice because if your in it your risking it.. if you never lost it then everyone would have one. So if everyone has one than its not really special is it? It's a vicious circle .. Try to think things through and you'll see my point
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
Look, first I never liked WOW nor hated it, played it 3 months was bored and gone.
BUT: What WOW did GOOD and forever introduced was rewards for EVERY amount of time players have! They have things to do for a short time, for a few days and some who take VERY VERY long to accomplish. EQ1 style game meant you needed LOTSA time to even get a small new fukking dagger! WOW is neither easy nor all just instant gratification. It really isnt my kind of game, but spreading this ridiculous word is just plain wrong.
Sometimes I want a goal which takes months to accomplish, yeah, but sometimes I just want to play 1 or 2 hours, get some small new reward to feel good for the day. I dunno if WOW invented that, but I dont want to go back to Dinosaur gaming.
I loved playing solo RPGs in the 80ies, things like early Ultima or Wizardry. No journal for quests, no ingame map, I had to draw it all and had a blast. But then was then and now is now, and just because I had so much fun in 1985 with that doesnt mean I want it NOW. Why do we always want to turn back the time? Ever heard of *gasp* progress?
Yeah modern games shorten the time between logging in and starting the fun, so what? There was nothing good in the endless grind, pain and wait wait wait that those old timers were. Like car oldtimers, the only good lies in the eye of the beholder, objectively they are just old, outdated cars. So with games.
All this about earning something... sorry but thats trash. If it were an accomplishment, it would be difficult. But what is difficult in sitting and waiting for a repop for 8 hours? Any fool can do that, its not accomplishment its just a boring waste of time. ALL those so called "challanges" were nothing but timesinks! A challange where I prove my power against great odds does not necessarily need to take time. Waiting doing nothing, travelling over the same roads over and over doesnt prove AYNTHING about your skills, besides patience. Or dumbeness.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
you could just go back to EQ... I mean, its not like its gone, its still there, with a pretty big sub base too. Though the last time I played it was back in like 2000-2001 or something, classic EQ with the really HUGE interface. Man they have really upped the graphix since then.
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
Look, first I never liked WOW nor hated it, played it 3 months was bored and gone.
BUT: What WOW did GOOD and forever introduced was rewards for EVERY amount of time players have! They have things to do for a short time, for a few days and some who take VERY VERY long to accomplish. EQ1 style game meant you needed LOTSA time to even get a small new fukking dagger! WOW is neither easy nor all just instant gratification. It really isnt my kind of game, but spreading this ridiculous word is just plain wrong.
Sometimes I want a goal which takes months to accomplish, yeah, but sometimes I just want to play 1 or 2 hours, get some small new reward to feel good for the day. I dunno if WOW invented that, but I dont want to go back to Dinosaur gaming.
I loved playing solo RPGs in the 80ies, things like early Ultima or Wizardry. No journal for quests, no ingame map, I had to draw it all and had a blast. But then was then and now is now, and just because I had so much fun in 1985 with that doesnt mean I want it NOW. Why do we always want to turn back the time? Ever heard of *gasp* progress?
Yeah modern games shorten the time between logging in and starting the fun, so what? There was nothing good in the endless grind, pain and wait wait wait that those old timers were. Like car oldtimers, the only good lies in the eye of the beholder, objectively they are just old, outdated cars. So with games.
All this about earning something... sorry but thats trash. If it were an accomplishment, it would be difficult. But what is difficult in sitting and waiting for a repop for 8 hours? Any fool can do that, its not accomplishment its just a boring waste of time. ALL those so called "challanges" were nothing but timesinks! A challange where I prove my power against great odds does not necessarily need to take time. Waiting doing nothing, travelling over the same roads over and over doesnt prove AYNTHING about your skills, besides patience. Or dumbeness.
Thank you for your honest opinion.
I Disagree with every part of it.
The new games do not offer progress. Progress is not giving the player a map, progress is not puttin a icon over a quest givers head so they are easy to find, progress is not shortening the 1-top leveling from close to a year to a month or two, progress is not instant gratification.
And WoW is instant gratification. It is either incredibly easy to get anything in WoW or i am just an incredible player, and i dont think it is the latter.
Some of us dont think of DPs, meaningful travel, faction, spell components, actual seeking quest givers and yes, even camping as timesinks. We think of them as actually playing the game.
It is fine and fair that you dont want these things again, we arent asking you to play this type of game if it ever comes back. But I, and it seems quite a few others do want these things.
You all can continue to throw out the fond memories and first kiss theories all you want but it wont change the fact that some of us Actually WANT a game with the aspects of EQ again.
You are right that some people want another EQ style game and would love to play it for hours on end. It doesn't mean that current MMOs are not moving the genre forward.
I'm sorry, but few people consider spending large amounts of time waiting for something to happen or the off chance that after you killed X number of place holders that some rare named mob will spawn and drop the rare item on a loot table to be the crowning achievement of MMO design. Spending 20 hours doing the same task over and over which is no more difficult than in WoW/EQ2/Etc doing it just once for say 1 hour doesn't make EQ challenging or difficult. It simply makes it longer. Spending large quantities of time doesn't make something hard if the actions are the same.
Those days are dead as a standard in game design. There is however plenty of room for someone to make a game like that and have it attract whatever population is left from those days. A game could easily get several hundred thousand players in the size of todays MMO market. The problem is that people want 10 million and don't realize that a game of smaller size can still be successful.
I personally think the best option for a more hardcore game to return now with comercial success would be in the version of a hardcore ruleset on special servers.
This would give people the choice if they want XP loss, corpse runs, harder mobs that force you to group more, less instant transport options.. the chance to seelct hardcore servers while those that want a wow like easy game can select the normalmode servers.
So here is a question: Why is it that every time someone makes a thread like this people feel the need to come on and state that no one would play a game like EQ again. If that is the case why are these threads being made. That facts are, there are some of us that would like to play a game like EQ again. And the group is big enough to support a game, of course not WoW numbers but plenty to make a profit. Come on and say you would never play a game like EQ again if you want, but please stop telling me that i wouldnt like to.
No one is telling you that you would not want or should not play another EQ. For the most part this has been an interesting discussion since EQ was one of the early mmos that many of us here played.
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
Instant gratification? Umm have you ever work Kara? Or for that matter any of the highend raid dungeons? WoW was not the game that simplified lower level play (or instant gratification). WoW was part of a number of games that started that trend as mmos got more popular. In reality WoW offers both the casual experience and the hardcore experience. In fact it was a brilliant move on Blizzards part and their pocketbooks will confirm they made a good choice.
Level 70 cleric. High end raider for many years. Raid leader of 72-man raids, back when you needed 72 to kill the Rathe, and imo...
World of Warcraft is the true sequel to Everquest.
Who cares if everyone hates it and says things like "it's only played by kids" and "it's too easy", these are just pointless snide remarks. All the interesting people left EQ for WoW the moment it was released, and we're still playing.
WoW is simply the best MMO out there right now, and if you hate it just because everyone else loves it, that's your problem.
Most of us have jobs and families now and we don't have time for another Evergrind, thank you. The kiddies you guys speak of are the only ones who can enjoy such a game these days.
Just stop complaining and take part in the online phenomenon before your own bitterness consumes you!
But don't play as Alliance. :P
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
EQ2 had it right with shard runs and group xp penalty if a group member died.
So SOE removes both, many left and yes many new ones came to play..
They could have just had different server with different rulesets. but no they put changes on all servers.
So to any game makers out there, give us a choice, dont nerf any challenge outta the games.
EQ1 was my 1st, it was tricky, it was challenging, and yes if it was re-made I an thousands more would be there, but WOW effect means we in for same boring stuff.
SOE should learn from its own past, dont assume we all are winey kids who cant stand a death penalty.
give us server choices, try to keep the players you have aswell as get new ones.!
too many people look back at E1 with rose tinted glass. you think its so great becuase it was 1 of the first MMO's you would of played.. but that type of gameplay.. grind+grind+grind+quest+grind+grind+forced grouping+grind+grind is a dated game that no 1 realy wants to play. Games have moved on.
I still have love for the original C&C but I know that if I download that and play it I will hate it.
But if your desperate why not play EQ1.. its still alive.
People here are focusing on the bad aspects of EQ, and there were indeed many bad things in that game (mostly time sinks). These are the things that WoW improved upon.
However, there were a few things that EQ did that were superior to all MMOs nowadays IMO:
1. Factions: EQ implemented an incredibly complex and deep faction system. You had to understand at least the basics of the faction system in order to know where you could go and what you could do. This feature was key to how immersive EQ was.
2. freedom: EQ was a sandbox game. Some classes had the ability to kill a mob in several different ways, depending on certain factors (location, type of mob,etc). This was obviously an unintended feature as all MMOs nowadays steer clear from it.
3. Related to #1, unique racial towns! This is key for any MMO! WoW did this right(not as well as EQ though) EQ2 f* this up big time with only two original starting cities.
Even though I agree that WoW is the best MMO out there, and it did improve upon what previous MMO did, WoW failed to even match 2 great features that previous MMOs had:
EQ2 had it right with shard runs and group xp penalty if a group member died. So SOE removes both, many left and yes many new ones came to play.. They could have just had different server with different rulesets. but no they put changes on all servers. So to any game makers out there, give us a choice, dont nerf any challenge outta the games. EQ1 was my 1st, it was tricky, it was challenging, and yes if it was re-made I an thousands more would be there, but WOW effect means we in for same boring stuff. SOE should learn from its own past, dont assume we all are winey kids who cant stand a death penalty. give us server choices, try to keep the players you have aswell as get new ones.!
I played Ultima Online before EQ and the death penalty in that game was you lost every item you carried to anyone who cared about taking them which was almost every time. So lets not talk about watered down death penalties as if EQ1 was so hardcore. EQ2 was stupid in their design choices. Shared death penalty was terrible, because it made people suffer for the stupidity of others. For example: invite some new player to your group and they die 3 times just trying to meet up with you at the dungeon and everyone gets penalized? A hard encounter where everyone dies but you, because you played top notch and managed to save the day and you still get penalized for other peoples mistakes? It was one of the dumbest design choices I have ever seen put into an MMO. A heavily group focused game that had an incentive not to group, now there is design team brilliance.
Shard runs didn't bother me, it just meant that more people would log off earlier or just end the dungeon run after a wipe (also very common in VG). I don't mind them being gone either as I could really care less about reclearing half a dungeon just to get a chunk of xp back. It always seemed artificial to me and not some incentive to play.
The list of superior EQ classic features is really long. To add some more:
- Jumping that lowers your stamina.
- Swimming and diving and underwater content.
- Weight on items and characters that affect your speed/agility/falling damage. - Weilding a weapon lowered your stamina depending on the weapon's weight.
- Only small items are stackable.
- Lack of minimap and GPS.
- Collision detection for all characters, regardless of faction, race, etc.
- Being able to attack absolutely anyone (in red servers) or any NPC.
- Factions that actually meant something.
- Lack of public teletransports. - Severe death penalty. - Skills like Orientation and Swimming. - Weapons' size didn't escalate depending on the avatar size. - Races meant something, everyone had different habilities. - Realistic falling damage that also depended on your total weight.
Lack of mini-map makes a game good ... Right ...
Severe death penalty makes a game good ... Right ...
Weighted items ... Cause the game is SO realistic ... Right....
Old games were bad. They were primitive ... They were like that high school sweetheart that dumped you and that you still think, even though you never lived with her in the real, adult, world that she is the best thing since sliced bread.
You guys need your heads checked.
EQ was fun in the day. So was FFXI ... UO ... but those days are gone. Forever. Been replaced by far superior products.
Have a nice day.
------ Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE Currently - Bored.
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
Instant gratification? Umm have you ever work Kara? Or for that matter any of the highend raid dungeons? WoW was not the game that simplified lower level play (or instant gratification). WoW was part of a number of games that started that trend as mmos got more popular. In reality WoW offers both the casual experience and the hardcore experience. In fact it was a brilliant move on Blizzards part and their pocketbooks will confirm they made a good choice.
Well said, but to religious zealots no success will ever proof THEM anything I fear. No matter how many millions would play WOW, in their endless arrogance they claim to be oh so superior over all those 10 million people having just fun. I mean, do you see the sheer audactiy and hubris declaring WOW SO bad when its such a stunning success? They defy ALL logic and cant be talked to.
Its simple: WOW appeals many and since they feel they are so elite what appeals many can by definition only be bad, thats ALL about their logic. End of the story. Its simple, once you realized how some humans function. When I was a teenager I thought like that too, on purpose I was against everything that appealed many, and I guess its a normal stage when you are 16. For an adult its however only ridiculous.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You are right that some people want another EQ style game and would love to play it for hours on end. It doesn't mean that current MMOs are not moving the genre forward. I'm sorry, but few people consider spending large amounts of time waiting for something to happen or the off chance that after you killed X number of place holders that some rare named mob will spawn and drop the rare item on a loot table to be the crowning achievement of MMO design. Spending 20 hours doing the same task over and over which is no more difficult than in WoW/EQ2/Etc doing it just once for say 1 hour doesn't make EQ challenging or difficult. It simply makes it longer. Spending large quantities of time doesn't make something hard if the actions are the same. Those days are dead as a standard in game design. There is however plenty of room for someone to make a game like that and have it attract whatever population is left from those days. A game could easily get several hundred thousand players in the size of todays MMO market. The problem is that people want 10 million and don't realize that a game of smaller size can still be successful.
The gameplay pieces that you pick out are not the ones that most of us EQ1 fans really want back. That was just one of the many aspects of EQ1. No one thinks (I hope) that EQ1 did everything right... there is a lot that needs improvement for a real updated version of EQ1 to come out.
For instance, what you pointed out... the camping of the same creatures in the same spot, and killing and killing them until the 'named' appeared, hopefully with the rare item as a drop... is not something that we want back from EQ1. It did serve a purpose though... it made rare items RARE, and that's important. It should take more time/skill to get those rare items and those items shouldn't become commonplace (like in WoW). Ideally I'd like some new kind of mechanic that makes these items rare and the 'named' monster a tough find and kill without the endless camping.
What I like (and want back) about EQ1 was that it had a risk/reward balance, not everyone could be 'uber', it made you become a better player as you advanced levels, and it encouraged grouping (and not just grouping, but talking to a lot of other randoms in an online world). The exact 'how' it achieved all of these ideas (like in the way you mention) is not specifically what I want back.
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
*CLAPS* *CLAPS*
The biggest problem i have with WOW is that it changed the business aspect of MMO's.. The bar is set much higher now on the numbers needed to be considered a success..And if theres one thing ive learned it is that i do not like the games that are made for the masses.. for example all the comments i just heard about harsh penalties and waiting on named mobs are the things i like about a game. because god forbid you have to earn something. Now i respect that others don't want to deal with that stuff but i like those elements of a game. This is why i like EvE so much .. You blow up and you dont respawn in a station with a new ship and all of your stuff in tact. Everyone wants reward without risk but in the end if you follow the thinking through what you find is that without risk is there really such a thing as reward? Special ships are nice because if your in it your risking it.. if you never lost it then everyone would have one. So if everyone has one than its not really special is it? It's a vicious circle .. Try to think things through and you'll see my point
Well, if you definition of "to earn something" includes waiting in line for hours with nothing to do ... sure .. EQ1 is the perfect game for you.
But it is obviously not what MOST other people want. I suppose you can always go back to EQ since it is still up and running.
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
*CLAPS* *CLAPS*
The biggest problem i have with WOW is that it changed the business aspect of MMO's.. The bar is set much higher now on the numbers needed to be considered a success..And if theres one thing ive learned it is that i do not like the games that are made for the masses.. for example all the comments i just heard about harsh penalties and waiting on named mobs are the things i like about a game. because god forbid you have to earn something. Now i respect that others don't want to deal with that stuff but i like those elements of a game. This is why i like EvE so much .. You blow up and you dont respawn in a station with a new ship and all of your stuff in tact. Everyone wants reward without risk but in the end if you follow the thinking through what you find is that without risk is there really such a thing as reward? Special ships are nice because if your in it your risking it.. if you never lost it then everyone would have one. So if everyone has one than its not really special is it? It's a vicious circle .. Try to think things through and you'll see my point
Well, if you definition of "to earn something" includes waiting in line for hours with nothing to do ... sure .. EQ1 is the perfect game for you.
But it is obviously not what MOST other people want. I suppose you can always go back to EQ since it is still up and running.
MOST people have several MMORPGs to chose from, but there is not a single one that can compare to EQ classic.
And we can't go back to EQ because it was ruined some years ago after Luclin expansion, adding teleports everywhere, magical threads that told you where your corpse was, and where your teammates were, instances, maps...
Comments
Yea here's the thing. Part of the reason you had such fond memories of eq is because it was A NEW idea and MMO's were relativly new at the time. EQ2 is alot like eq1 only the graphics are better. I dont play eq2 and my memories of eq1 are definatly much higher on the good times list than eq2... Reason... because it was new... Now there are 23849723 MMO's out there all of which are a little different than each other. EQ1 was special because MMo's were a new idea for the most part when it came out.
IMO something big will happen to MMO's in the next few years that will open it up but for now we have to deal with the literal hundreds of Crappy games that are coming out because they all want a piece of the WOW pie. They are a piece of something but it smells worse than pie. As the poster said before me ... you probably won't recognise it.
Tbh: hopefully not. Eq1 represented EVERYTHING that KEPT me away from MMOs until the later era! Harsh penalities, endless waiting for boss mob spawns asf. No thanks! Sorry for being so blunt, but thats how I feel about it.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
No..... no one is willing to put the time into an MMO that you had to in EQ1. Today MMO's have to give instant gratification or they are panned by the majority of players. Thank WoW for that...
I think what he meant by another eq1 type game was as soon as we logged into the game we felt like we we're there, there world didn't feel bland it felt alive, there was things (repetitive but still things) to do
it reminded me of uo 3d but with levels
I personally would love to see a uo type game but in 3d...but darkfall will never be released and shadowbane was close but was flawed
I think something should be done instead of getting levels
come up with something new but eq1 sort of style that would be sweet
even in EQ2 you felt like you we're there the cities we're alive the npc's talked to you it was cool...but eq2 is boring
im rambling and im stoned and im tired sorry if this didn't make any sense
The biggest problem i have with WOW is that it changed the business aspect of MMO's.. The bar is set much higher now on the numbers needed to be considered a success..And if theres one thing ive learned it is that i do not like the games that are made for the masses.. for example all the comments i just heard about harsh penalties and waiting on named mobs are the things i like about a game. because god forbid you have to earn something. Now i respect that others don't want to deal with that stuff but i like those elements of a game. This is why i like EvE so much .. You blow up and you dont respawn in a station with a new ship and all of your stuff in tact. Everyone wants reward without risk but in the end if you follow the thinking through what you find is that without risk is there really such a thing as reward? Special ships are nice because if your in it your risking it.. if you never lost it then everyone would have one. So if everyone has one than its not really special is it? It's a vicious circle .. Try to think things through and you'll see my point
Look, first I never liked WOW nor hated it, played it 3 months was bored and gone.
BUT: What WOW did GOOD and forever introduced was rewards for EVERY amount of time players have! They have things to do for a short time, for a few days and some who take VERY VERY long to accomplish. EQ1 style game meant you needed LOTSA time to even get a small new fukking dagger! WOW is neither easy nor all just instant gratification. It really isnt my kind of game, but spreading this ridiculous word is just plain wrong.
Sometimes I want a goal which takes months to accomplish, yeah, but sometimes I just want to play 1 or 2 hours, get some small new reward to feel good for the day. I dunno if WOW invented that, but I dont want to go back to Dinosaur gaming.
I loved playing solo RPGs in the 80ies, things like early Ultima or Wizardry. No journal for quests, no ingame map, I had to draw it all and had a blast. But then was then and now is now, and just because I had so much fun in 1985 with that doesnt mean I want it NOW. Why do we always want to turn back the time? Ever heard of *gasp* progress?
Yeah modern games shorten the time between logging in and starting the fun, so what? There was nothing good in the endless grind, pain and wait wait wait that those old timers were. Like car oldtimers, the only good lies in the eye of the beholder, objectively they are just old, outdated cars. So with games.
All this about earning something... sorry but thats trash. If it were an accomplishment, it would be difficult. But what is difficult in sitting and waiting for a repop for 8 hours? Any fool can do that, its not accomplishment its just a boring waste of time. ALL those so called "challanges" were nothing but timesinks! A challange where I prove my power against great odds does not necessarily need to take time. Waiting doing nothing, travelling over the same roads over and over doesnt prove AYNTHING about your skills, besides patience. Or dumbeness.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
you could just go back to EQ... I mean, its not like its gone, its still there, with a pretty big sub base too. Though the last time I played it was back in like 2000-2001 or something, classic EQ with the really HUGE interface. Man they have really upped the graphix since then.
Look, first I never liked WOW nor hated it, played it 3 months was bored and gone.
BUT: What WOW did GOOD and forever introduced was rewards for EVERY amount of time players have! They have things to do for a short time, for a few days and some who take VERY VERY long to accomplish. EQ1 style game meant you needed LOTSA time to even get a small new fukking dagger! WOW is neither easy nor all just instant gratification. It really isnt my kind of game, but spreading this ridiculous word is just plain wrong.
Sometimes I want a goal which takes months to accomplish, yeah, but sometimes I just want to play 1 or 2 hours, get some small new reward to feel good for the day. I dunno if WOW invented that, but I dont want to go back to Dinosaur gaming.
I loved playing solo RPGs in the 80ies, things like early Ultima or Wizardry. No journal for quests, no ingame map, I had to draw it all and had a blast. But then was then and now is now, and just because I had so much fun in 1985 with that doesnt mean I want it NOW. Why do we always want to turn back the time? Ever heard of *gasp* progress?
Yeah modern games shorten the time between logging in and starting the fun, so what? There was nothing good in the endless grind, pain and wait wait wait that those old timers were. Like car oldtimers, the only good lies in the eye of the beholder, objectively they are just old, outdated cars. So with games.
All this about earning something... sorry but thats trash. If it were an accomplishment, it would be difficult. But what is difficult in sitting and waiting for a repop for 8 hours? Any fool can do that, its not accomplishment its just a boring waste of time. ALL those so called "challanges" were nothing but timesinks! A challange where I prove my power against great odds does not necessarily need to take time. Waiting doing nothing, travelling over the same roads over and over doesnt prove AYNTHING about your skills, besides patience. Or dumbeness.
Thank you for your honest opinion.
I Disagree with every part of it.
The new games do not offer progress. Progress is not giving the player a map, progress is not puttin a icon over a quest givers head so they are easy to find, progress is not shortening the 1-top leveling from close to a year to a month or two, progress is not instant gratification.
And WoW is instant gratification. It is either incredibly easy to get anything in WoW or i am just an incredible player, and i dont think it is the latter.
Some of us dont think of DPs, meaningful travel, faction, spell components, actual seeking quest givers and yes, even camping as timesinks. We think of them as actually playing the game.
It is fine and fair that you dont want these things again, we arent asking you to play this type of game if it ever comes back. But I, and it seems quite a few others do want these things.
You all can continue to throw out the fond memories and first kiss theories all you want but it wont change the fact that some of us Actually WANT a game with the aspects of EQ again.
You are right that some people want another EQ style game and would love to play it for hours on end. It doesn't mean that current MMOs are not moving the genre forward.
I'm sorry, but few people consider spending large amounts of time waiting for something to happen or the off chance that after you killed X number of place holders that some rare named mob will spawn and drop the rare item on a loot table to be the crowning achievement of MMO design. Spending 20 hours doing the same task over and over which is no more difficult than in WoW/EQ2/Etc doing it just once for say 1 hour doesn't make EQ challenging or difficult. It simply makes it longer. Spending large quantities of time doesn't make something hard if the actions are the same.
Those days are dead as a standard in game design. There is however plenty of room for someone to make a game like that and have it attract whatever population is left from those days. A game could easily get several hundred thousand players in the size of todays MMO market. The problem is that people want 10 million and don't realize that a game of smaller size can still be successful.
I personally think the best option for a more hardcore game to return now with comercial success would be in the version of a hardcore ruleset on special servers.
This would give people the choice if they want XP loss, corpse runs, harder mobs that force you to group more, less instant transport options.. the chance to seelct hardcore servers while those that want a wow like easy game can select the normalmode servers.
No one is telling you that you would not want or should not play another EQ. For the most part this has been an interesting discussion since EQ was one of the early mmos that many of us here played.
Instant gratification? Umm have you ever work Kara? Or for that matter any of the highend raid dungeons? WoW was not the game that simplified lower level play (or instant gratification). WoW was part of a number of games that started that trend as mmos got more popular. In reality WoW offers both the casual experience and the hardcore experience. In fact it was a brilliant move on Blizzards part and their pocketbooks will confirm they made a good choice.
Level 70 cleric. High end raider for many years. Raid leader of 72-man raids, back when you needed 72 to kill the Rathe, and imo...
World of Warcraft is the true sequel to Everquest.
Who cares if everyone hates it and says things like "it's only played by kids" and "it's too easy", these are just pointless snide remarks. All the interesting people left EQ for WoW the moment it was released, and we're still playing.
WoW is simply the best MMO out there right now, and if you hate it just because everyone else loves it, that's your problem.
Most of us have jobs and families now and we don't have time for another Evergrind, thank you. The kiddies you guys speak of are the only ones who can enjoy such a game these days.
Just stop complaining and take part in the online phenomenon before your own bitterness consumes you!
But don't play as Alliance. :P
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
EQ2 had it right with shard runs and group xp penalty if a group member died.
So SOE removes both, many left and yes many new ones came to play..
They could have just had different server with different rulesets. but no they put changes on all servers.
So to any game makers out there, give us a choice, dont nerf any challenge outta the games.
EQ1 was my 1st, it was tricky, it was challenging, and yes if it was re-made I an thousands more would be there, but WOW effect means we in for same boring stuff.
SOE should learn from its own past, dont assume we all are winey kids who cant stand a death penalty.
give us server choices, try to keep the players you have aswell as get new ones.!
too many people look back at E1 with rose tinted glass. you think its so great becuase it was 1 of the first MMO's you would of played.. but that type of gameplay.. grind+grind+grind+quest+grind+grind+forced grouping+grind+grind is a dated game that no 1 realy wants to play. Games have moved on.
I still have love for the original C&C but I know that if I download that and play it I will hate it.
But if your desperate why not play EQ1.. its still alive.
People here are focusing on the bad aspects of EQ, and there were indeed many bad things in that game (mostly time sinks). These are the things that WoW improved upon.
However, there were a few things that EQ did that were superior to all MMOs nowadays IMO:
1. Factions: EQ implemented an incredibly complex and deep faction system. You had to understand at least the basics of the faction system in order to know where you could go and what you could do. This feature was key to how immersive EQ was.
2. freedom: EQ was a sandbox game. Some classes had the ability to kill a mob in several different ways, depending on certain factors (location, type of mob,etc). This was obviously an unintended feature as all MMOs nowadays steer clear from it.
3. Related to #1, unique racial towns! This is key for any MMO! WoW did this right(not as well as EQ though) EQ2 f* this up big time with only two original starting cities.
Even though I agree that WoW is the best MMO out there, and it did improve upon what previous MMO did, WoW failed to even match 2 great features that previous MMOs had:
a) Faction system for PvE #1 above.
b) PvP from DAoC (IMO best PvP/RvR system ever implemented and best possible end game)
Shard runs didn't bother me, it just meant that more people would log off earlier or just end the dungeon run after a wipe (also very common in VG). I don't mind them being gone either as I could really care less about reclearing half a dungeon just to get a chunk of xp back. It always seemed artificial to me and not some incentive to play.
The list of superior EQ classic features is really long. To add some more:
- Jumping that lowers your stamina.
- Swimming and diving and underwater content.
- Weight on items and characters that affect your speed/agility/falling damage.
- Weilding a weapon lowered your stamina depending on the weapon's weight.
- Only small items are stackable.
- Lack of minimap and GPS.
- Collision detection for all characters, regardless of faction, race, etc.
- Being able to attack absolutely anyone (in red servers) or any NPC.
- Factions that actually meant something.
- Lack of public teletransports.
- Severe death penalty.
- Skills like Orientation and Swimming.
- Weapons' size didn't escalate depending on the avatar size.
- Races meant something, everyone had different habilities.
- Realistic falling damage that also depended on your total weight.
- Lack of instances. (edited)
It's amazing how people confuse novelty (I.e. it was your first game, your first love) and quality.
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Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
Lack of mini-map makes a game good ... Right ...
Severe death penalty makes a game good ... Right ...
Weighted items ... Cause the game is SO realistic ... Right....
Old games were bad. They were primitive ... They were like that high school sweetheart that dumped you and that you still think, even though you never lived with her in the real, adult, world that she is the best thing since sliced bread.
You guys need your heads checked.
EQ was fun in the day. So was FFXI ... UO ... but those days are gone. Forever. Been replaced by far superior products.
Have a nice day.
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Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
Instant gratification? Umm have you ever work Kara? Or for that matter any of the highend raid dungeons? WoW was not the game that simplified lower level play (or instant gratification). WoW was part of a number of games that started that trend as mmos got more popular. In reality WoW offers both the casual experience and the hardcore experience. In fact it was a brilliant move on Blizzards part and their pocketbooks will confirm they made a good choice.
Well said, but to religious zealots no success will ever proof THEM anything I fear. No matter how many millions would play WOW, in their endless arrogance they claim to be oh so superior over all those 10 million people having just fun. I mean, do you see the sheer audactiy and hubris declaring WOW SO bad when its such a stunning success? They defy ALL logic and cant be talked to.
Its simple: WOW appeals many and since they feel they are so elite what appeals many can by definition only be bad, thats ALL about their logic. End of the story. Its simple, once you realized how some humans function. When I was a teenager I thought like that too, on purpose I was against everything that appealed many, and I guess its a normal stage when you are 16. For an adult its however only ridiculous.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
For instance, what you pointed out... the camping of the same creatures in the same spot, and killing and killing them until the 'named' appeared, hopefully with the rare item as a drop... is not something that we want back from EQ1. It did serve a purpose though... it made rare items RARE, and that's important. It should take more time/skill to get those rare items and those items shouldn't become commonplace (like in WoW). Ideally I'd like some new kind of mechanic that makes these items rare and the 'named' monster a tough find and kill without the endless camping.
What I like (and want back) about EQ1 was that it had a risk/reward balance, not everyone could be 'uber', it made you become a better player as you advanced levels, and it encouraged grouping (and not just grouping, but talking to a lot of other randoms in an online world). The exact 'how' it achieved all of these ideas (like in the way you mention) is not specifically what I want back.
The biggest problem i have with WOW is that it changed the business aspect of MMO's.. The bar is set much higher now on the numbers needed to be considered a success..And if theres one thing ive learned it is that i do not like the games that are made for the masses.. for example all the comments i just heard about harsh penalties and waiting on named mobs are the things i like about a game. because god forbid you have to earn something. Now i respect that others don't want to deal with that stuff but i like those elements of a game. This is why i like EvE so much .. You blow up and you dont respawn in a station with a new ship and all of your stuff in tact. Everyone wants reward without risk but in the end if you follow the thinking through what you find is that without risk is there really such a thing as reward? Special ships are nice because if your in it your risking it.. if you never lost it then everyone would have one. So if everyone has one than its not really special is it? It's a vicious circle .. Try to think things through and you'll see my point
Well, if you definition of "to earn something" includes waiting in line for hours with nothing to do ... sure .. EQ1 is the perfect game for you.
But it is obviously not what MOST other people want. I suppose you can always go back to EQ since it is still up and running.
The biggest problem i have with WOW is that it changed the business aspect of MMO's.. The bar is set much higher now on the numbers needed to be considered a success..And if theres one thing ive learned it is that i do not like the games that are made for the masses.. for example all the comments i just heard about harsh penalties and waiting on named mobs are the things i like about a game. because god forbid you have to earn something. Now i respect that others don't want to deal with that stuff but i like those elements of a game. This is why i like EvE so much .. You blow up and you dont respawn in a station with a new ship and all of your stuff in tact. Everyone wants reward without risk but in the end if you follow the thinking through what you find is that without risk is there really such a thing as reward? Special ships are nice because if your in it your risking it.. if you never lost it then everyone would have one. So if everyone has one than its not really special is it? It's a vicious circle .. Try to think things through and you'll see my point
Well, if you definition of "to earn something" includes waiting in line for hours with nothing to do ... sure .. EQ1 is the perfect game for you.
But it is obviously not what MOST other people want. I suppose you can always go back to EQ since it is still up and running.
MOST people have several MMORPGs to chose from, but there is not a single one that can compare to EQ classic.And we can't go back to EQ because it was ruined some years ago after Luclin expansion, adding teleports everywhere, magical threads that told you where your corpse was, and where your teammates were, instances, maps...