i have to agree i really hope no wow players joins into AoC
Keep dreaming, you really think the kids don't love blood and boobs?
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I don't think WoW will die anytime in the next 15 years. Look at UO and how far it had come. WoW is more than 45 times the size of UO player base wise and UO is still alive and kicking it.
WoW will have a slow painless death. NO mmo will kill it, eventually over time it will just lose subscriptions. I don't know if any other MMO in history will do what WoW did. I want to think that some new game will, but I'm not even sure if Blizzard can out-do themselves with this game.
We all hate on WoW, but it comes down to one thing. The more people that play a game, the more that complain/love. So just be happy that WoW happened, it saved the MMO genre, whether you like it or not.
WoW didnt save the mmo genre, it opened it up for alot of non-mmo players. MMO's is a niche gamestyle, but WoW put that style into the mainstream. I do agree that WoW will only be killed by time, or maybe if Blizzard severly screw up their expansion, but that scenario is highly unlikely. The only other way to beat WoW off the throne is to make another mmo almost the same as WoW, cause you'll need mass appeal to outsell WoW. And the masses want predictability and easy gameplay.
We all cry for original gameplay and new thinking, but the sad truth is that the few devs that try to do that will either be shot down early by idiot posters/reviewers(see the Requiem CB trolling thread around here as one example) and bad press or the game just wont sell. Bought Psychonauts off Steam a few days ago. Ok, it a platformer, but its one of the most original platformers I've ever played. Its ahead of its time even today and the funny thing is, the game just didnt sell. So, the lesson learned is that originality dont sell. Just look at all those crappy sport games EA pukes out on the market each year. FIFA and Madden is the same game each year just with better graphics and sound, but they still sell in the millions.
I play WoW. Actively, as well. I'll agree, it is a poor game when you compare it to, say...Pre-NGE SWG...as so many of us do. But I've never found a match...ever. Not within RP standards, or gameplay standards. I joined WoW in hopes of finding a replacement for the previously stated game.. And even though I did not, I still stay. Why? Even with all of the idiots, the spam that, suddenly, became an issue, all of the dying RP giving way to PvP and raiding, and all of that, I've still yet to play a game where it was as enjoyable. In WoW, I can spend every single questing moment alone, and still do well. I can only quest, never speak to another person, and still have fun. I can raid, if I so wish, if I'd like to stay up to gear standards. And, mostly, I still find active RP, something which I've looked for in Lotr, CoX, even EvE, and did not find nearly as easily..or, really, at all.
I get to play and level, my way, I still can RP, fairly actively, and I can enjoy the Warcraft world, even if there is not much room for true..choice, as far as the gameplay and game world goes. So...I've settled, let's say. I've taken the Club-Footed Duck over the Beautiful Swan, of gaming, basically, because that Swan is long dead. I'll never have my Zabrak Swordmaster back, and I've accepted that. Really, when you think about, it is not that WoW is bad...it's just not what you really want to play. All we can do is -hope- the next great "SWG" comes out; That fabled sandbox...and pray Sony stays the hell away from it...
I sincerely hope that the majority of WoW´s fanbase don´t start AoC..
I am gonna have to agree with you, I have two mmo accounts right now (Lord of the Rings Online - Lifetime founder and World of Warcraft - montlhy). When I am playing WoW I usually do it solo with all the channels turned off ( I do not belong to a guild). That game has the most immature and that is being nice.
But, we shall see what happens when AoC comes out because of the fatalities and the gratuitous nudity that will be there I am sure it will attract a plethora or morons.
It is impossible to attract worst morons than in WoW, really, you can trust me. I played few mmorpgs but WoW community is unique. Morons, kids, sponger system in looting, I can talk about technical side too but we are talking about people so lets stick to topic. I really wish to all WoW players (oki, most of them) endless fun, new expansions, new epix, new raids. I wish to you guys all the best but please, do not play other games, kkthxbye.
I truely hope for a game that uses my brain to think and to create and to explore and to imagine being in such a place.. to battle the unseen forces and to make a destiny for my friends and myself. to feel as though i have accomplished something by helping create a community.. to me that is gaming as it used to be... not how many kills ive gotten or the same gear someone else has or same items in my home or guild house... I hope some of you feel this way as i do Kwosh aka player of many games but rarely finding a true MMORPG
There are games like this only they are not MMO's. They are single player adventure games like Myst. Unfortunately there are no multiplayer games like this that I know of and the reason is painfully obvious...it's only a mystery for the very first person to solve the problem. If you were to try to make a game like this a multiplayer game, as soon as someone figured out the solution to a puzzle, the solution would be all over the place for everyone to see. Forums, in game chat, game guides, fan sites etc. would all have the solutions to every puzzle and isn't this pretty much what we have now with quests? The only reason games like Myst work is because they are single player games so there is no one to ask how to complete the quest within the game. You have to solve it by yourself. And even still people go outside the game and find out the solutions anyway.
And you know what? These games don't sell. Blizzard has just recognized the fact that most people really don't care that much about the journey, they just want to get to the prize at the end. So why try to make it all that tough to find the answer since most people aren't going to actually go thru the trouble of trying to find out the answer anway, they are just gonna look it up on thottbot or ask someone who's already completed the quest. What's the point of trying to make it some kind of mystery when very few people will actually take the time to try to solve that mystery? So instead they give us quests that don't take very much thought, but instead they take time. It takes time to complete the quest even if you know exactly what to do, so even if someone tells you go to X and kill 10 Y, you STILL have to go to X and kill 10 Y. It doesn't matter that you know what to do, you still have to take the time to do it. It's not that Blizzard can't come up with more difficult quests like they do in Myst or other adventure games, it's just they know that's not really what most people want and even if they did make the quests like this, people would just find out what to do from someone else and do it. There really wouldn't be any big mystery anymore than there's any mystery in trying to find out where X is so you can kill 10 Y's.
Just look at all those crappy sport games EA pukes out on the market each year. FIFA and Madden is the same game each year just with better graphics and sound, but they still sell in the millions.
Actually I can't even say the graphics or sound have changed much lately, it's just the names and numbers on the uniforms that change and still they sell millions. And people call WoW unoriginal.
I believe the reason for WoW's success is that the competition sucks. None of the other MMOs on the market, now and in the near future, with the exception of EVE would have any success whatsoever without the draw of the player being a powerful elf wizard and blowing up face.
All other MMOs count on the fact that the player wants to flee real life and feel like a powerful hero in a virtual world, and is willing to ignore all the enormous problems with other games. Needless to say, in WoW you can feel like a powerful hero (trinket-POM-pyro-BOOMMM!!) and it doesn't have nearly as many enormous problems.
Graphics: WoW has an old graphics engine with low-poly models. The engine can't handle more detail, because when you use the graphics macros available on the net to crank up the graphical quality, you better have a €250 graphics card and it still doesn't look amazing. But it manages to create a world worth exploring with its unique art style. (The sky changing between zones really sets the mood)
As opposed to the engines of competing games, which either strive to beat Crysis or something and as a result don't work right (AoC) or are low quality as well but without the style that makes WoW (WAR).
Gameplay: WoW is far from perfect. Remember the WoW ads with a party fighting a dragon, with in bold letters 'No thanks, I'd rather kill rats'. Killing rats is exactly what you get, though. From a game-theory perspective, 'imbalances by design' like the racial tradeskill bonuses are a sign of bad game design.
It has the addiction factor working for it, though. 'Just one more quest'. Same thing that got people farming the cow level a thousand times in Diablo 2 hoping for that Windforce to drop or because it would push them up to level 93. And then why not keep playing to level 94?
The competition requires you to spam LFG LFG LFG PLZZZZZ HELP I BEG YOU LET ME INTO A GROUP ILL BEAR YOUR BABIES GOD PLEEEEASE in chat for ages, and then god forbid you have to quit out 10 minutes later. The group instances in WoW are not mandatory to progress through the game, and you can avoid grouping up entirely if you are only concerned about character level. (Items are something else, of course; by the time you care about items, you're already long hooked)
Also, the competition looks so uninteresting and has so few surprises that there is no reason to push on. In WoW, the next area has a great new look, lots of tourist traps and screenshot-worthy vistas, you may find cute items like shrink potions or broken IWIN buttons, and if you keep playing for a while, you get to visit an alien planet. In any other game, the next area is exactly the same as the previous with a different tile colour.
Creativity: You get to make your own UI mods and create your very own talent builds! Of course, people still download the 'most popular' mods and copy the 'best' builds verbatim, but it gives them the illusion of being that unique snowflake, as if anyone cared.
Personally, I appreciate the fact that I can have the faint illusion of treading upon unexplored ground when I try a single target control build with both Impact and that cold freeze talent... which of course doesn't work, but hell, I tried. I was unique. I lived!
Success breeds success: Blizzard sells well because it is Blizzard and they stand for quality, which ensures that their next title has a huge budget and will have equally high production values. People looking for 'a RPG with multiplayer' have the choice between the supreme blockbuster WoW and... well... some other games that aren't nearly as successful.
If you buy one of said other games, you are the odd man out, and you may be labelled a geek by your friends because you play Everquest or Istaria or Archlol instead of an actually popular game which real people play.
Accidental anticompetitiveness: WoW is the proverbial last clipper in the age of steam in terms of gameplay, but its initial success managed to slow down evolution quite nicely by spawning a round of copycat clones and then crushing them. Imagine what WAR could have been without WoW.
People have ADD: It is a fact of player psychology that people want their skills to be universally applicable. Why is it that map variety is not such a strong selling point of first-person shooters (two words: DE Dust), and in fact, if there is a wealth of gametypes then people cluster to the same few maps anyway (two words: ONS Torlan)? Why is it that DOTA is still successful despite offering all of 1 map?
WoW's skill rotations and trancelike repetitiveness of fireball-fireball-frostbolt-frostbolt-frost nova! BANG WOOT LOL UR FROZEN-back up-frostbolt-FINISH HIM!-spam all instants keeps people playing, because they can get really good at following this skill order and it makes them feel powerful, especially the frost nova. If they set up a macro to automate add sheeping, it makes them feel even better. You don't have to think or improvise and you won't be faced with impossible situations, as long as you follow your trusted comfy cuddly button order, which takes the role of that beloved teddy bear you used to fall asleep with when you were a kid 2 years ago.
And it was you who came up with this order! (Either all by yourself by coming to the enlightened realisation that fireball has a longer range than frostbolt, or by having master googling skillz) You succeeded at the game! And in 10 levels, you can get your blizzard AoE farm build going! Woo!
And so people play on, seeking to face ever tougher ch... I mean, monsters with an ever higher level number until they too can walk tall and proud with A'dal in Shattrath and tell newbies on the forum that 'lol stfu level 41 noob rofl'. And perhaps even get into a guild and study scripted boss encounters where the boss spams AE every 30 seconds to the millisecond and your role is to stand exactly 21 yards away and hit the fireball button whenever your little red bar on Omen dips more than xyz points below the tank's.
°°°
I'm perhaps a bit cynical, but sadly, I'm currently trying to figure out how to solo 2 enemies at once with my level 21 mage without polymorph. I'm doomed. If anyone finds this bottle, stay away from Lofoten when the tide turns, or woe betide thee.
as long as blizzard keeps adding on new armors with lightning bolts, or fancy fireball gemmed in shoulders... people will stay on wow for weeks/months to get those items. blizz knew they were on top of mmorpg chart and they had the perfect way to keep themselves there.
Alien attack definatley. One day they'll be sat their in their little/big pods, and while playing wow get so pissed off with some level 70 badass copse camping them, they'll get their little lasers out and....pow, byebye world of warcraft.
The Secret World Beta Weekend Screenshots and Review at Bird Eats Worm!
Comments
Keep dreaming, you really think the kids don't love blood and boobs?
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
WoW didnt save the mmo genre, it opened it up for alot of non-mmo players. MMO's is a niche gamestyle, but WoW put that style into the mainstream. I do agree that WoW will only be killed by time, or maybe if Blizzard severly screw up their expansion, but that scenario is highly unlikely. The only other way to beat WoW off the throne is to make another mmo almost the same as WoW, cause you'll need mass appeal to outsell WoW. And the masses want predictability and easy gameplay.
We all cry for original gameplay and new thinking, but the sad truth is that the few devs that try to do that will either be shot down early by idiot posters/reviewers(see the Requiem CB trolling thread around here as one example) and bad press or the game just wont sell. Bought Psychonauts off Steam a few days ago. Ok, it a platformer, but its one of the most original platformers I've ever played. Its ahead of its time even today and the funny thing is, the game just didnt sell. So, the lesson learned is that originality dont sell. Just look at all those crappy sport games EA pukes out on the market each year. FIFA and Madden is the same game each year just with better graphics and sound, but they still sell in the millions.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
the only logical choice is that another mmo will do it. itll be a long time tho. the other choices are dumb..
The only thing that can defeat WoW is the sequal also made by Blizzard
i said it once and ill say it again, wow will die when the 10 million (or however many now) people who play it die.
I play WoW. Actively, as well. I'll agree, it is a poor game when you compare it to, say...Pre-NGE SWG...as so many of us do. But I've never found a match...ever. Not within RP standards, or gameplay standards. I joined WoW in hopes of finding a replacement for the previously stated game.. And even though I did not, I still stay. Why? Even with all of the idiots, the spam that, suddenly, became an issue, all of the dying RP giving way to PvP and raiding, and all of that, I've still yet to play a game where it was as enjoyable. In WoW, I can spend every single questing moment alone, and still do well. I can only quest, never speak to another person, and still have fun. I can raid, if I so wish, if I'd like to stay up to gear standards. And, mostly, I still find active RP, something which I've looked for in Lotr, CoX, even EvE, and did not find nearly as easily..or, really, at all.
I get to play and level, my way, I still can RP, fairly actively, and I can enjoy the Warcraft world, even if there is not much room for true..choice, as far as the gameplay and game world goes. So...I've settled, let's say. I've taken the Club-Footed Duck over the Beautiful Swan, of gaming, basically, because that Swan is long dead. I'll never have my Zabrak Swordmaster back, and I've accepted that. Really, when you think about, it is not that WoW is bad...it's just not what you really want to play. All we can do is -hope- the next great "SWG" comes out; That fabled sandbox...and pray Sony stays the hell away from it...
Age of Conan will do very very well but it wont kill WoW
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
I sincerely hope that the majority of WoW´s fanbase don´t start AoC..
I am gonna have to agree with you, I have two mmo accounts right now (Lord of the Rings Online - Lifetime founder and World of Warcraft - montlhy). When I am playing WoW I usually do it solo with all the channels turned off ( I do not belong to a guild). That game has the most immature and that is being nice.But, we shall see what happens when AoC comes out because of the fatalities and the gratuitous nudity that will be there I am sure it will attract a plethora or morons.
It is impossible to attract worst morons than in WoW, really, you can trust me. I played few mmorpgs but WoW community is unique. Morons, kids, sponger system in looting, I can talk about technical side too but we are talking about people so lets stick to topic. I really wish to all WoW players (oki, most of them) endless fun, new expansions, new epix, new raids. I wish to you guys all the best but please, do not play other games, kkthxbye.
If you really want to know what will kill it is Blizzard's own WoW killer... the infamous "Project: Hydra"!!!!
They will kill one of their own projects by themselves!!
No other MMO will kill WoW. Blizzard was the only developer smart enough to break the cardinal rule of MMORPGs.
Instead of trying to make some esoteric virtual world simulator that only the hardcore can advance in Blizzard did just the oppsite.
Blizzard made a fun video game that everyone can enjoy.
as long as weakminded people roam the earth, so shall WOW survive.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
Blizzard games Kill other Blizzard games.
[quote=lionexx]Playing:CoD4,daoc,NWN2,Supcom,Diablo 2, Xbox 360,Value games, GW, games.
Retired:DAoC,AC2,SWG,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW, I have played every MMO that has ever come out.[/quote]
Where's the muds? ;-) e.g Avalonia, Medivia, Wheel of Time, Valhalla etc..
Oh and yeah, I find that as long as there will come expansions for wow, it won't end.
And you know what? These games don't sell. Blizzard has just recognized the fact that most people really don't care that much about the journey, they just want to get to the prize at the end. So why try to make it all that tough to find the answer since most people aren't going to actually go thru the trouble of trying to find out the answer anway, they are just gonna look it up on thottbot or ask someone who's already completed the quest. What's the point of trying to make it some kind of mystery when very few people will actually take the time to try to solve that mystery? So instead they give us quests that don't take very much thought, but instead they take time. It takes time to complete the quest even if you know exactly what to do, so even if someone tells you go to X and kill 10 Y, you STILL have to go to X and kill 10 Y. It doesn't matter that you know what to do, you still have to take the time to do it. It's not that Blizzard can't come up with more difficult quests like they do in Myst or other adventure games, it's just they know that's not really what most people want and even if they did make the quests like this, people would just find out what to do from someone else and do it. There really wouldn't be any big mystery anymore than there's any mystery in trying to find out where X is so you can kill 10 Y's.
Actually I can't even say the graphics or sound have changed much lately, it's just the names and numbers on the uniforms that change and still they sell millions. And people call WoW unoriginal.
i believe that the thing that could kill WoW is blizzards next mmo...
I believe the reason for WoW's success is that the competition sucks. None of the other MMOs on the market, now and in the near future, with the exception of EVE would have any success whatsoever without the draw of the player being a powerful elf wizard and blowing up face.
All other MMOs count on the fact that the player wants to flee real life and feel like a powerful hero in a virtual world, and is willing to ignore all the enormous problems with other games. Needless to say, in WoW you can feel like a powerful hero (trinket-POM-pyro-BOOMMM!!) and it doesn't have nearly as many enormous problems.
Graphics: WoW has an old graphics engine with low-poly models. The engine can't handle more detail, because when you use the graphics macros available on the net to crank up the graphical quality, you better have a €250 graphics card and it still doesn't look amazing. But it manages to create a world worth exploring with its unique art style. (The sky changing between zones really sets the mood)
As opposed to the engines of competing games, which either strive to beat Crysis or something and as a result don't work right (AoC) or are low quality as well but without the style that makes WoW (WAR).
Gameplay: WoW is far from perfect. Remember the WoW ads with a party fighting a dragon, with in bold letters 'No thanks, I'd rather kill rats'. Killing rats is exactly what you get, though. From a game-theory perspective, 'imbalances by design' like the racial tradeskill bonuses are a sign of bad game design.
It has the addiction factor working for it, though. 'Just one more quest'. Same thing that got people farming the cow level a thousand times in Diablo 2 hoping for that Windforce to drop or because it would push them up to level 93. And then why not keep playing to level 94?
The competition requires you to spam LFG LFG LFG PLZZZZZ HELP I BEG YOU LET ME INTO A GROUP ILL BEAR YOUR BABIES GOD PLEEEEASE in chat for ages, and then god forbid you have to quit out 10 minutes later. The group instances in WoW are not mandatory to progress through the game, and you can avoid grouping up entirely if you are only concerned about character level. (Items are something else, of course; by the time you care about items, you're already long hooked)
Also, the competition looks so uninteresting and has so few surprises that there is no reason to push on. In WoW, the next area has a great new look, lots of tourist traps and screenshot-worthy vistas, you may find cute items like shrink potions or broken IWIN buttons, and if you keep playing for a while, you get to visit an alien planet. In any other game, the next area is exactly the same as the previous with a different tile colour.
Creativity: You get to make your own UI mods and create your very own talent builds! Of course, people still download the 'most popular' mods and copy the 'best' builds verbatim, but it gives them the illusion of being that unique snowflake, as if anyone cared.
Personally, I appreciate the fact that I can have the faint illusion of treading upon unexplored ground when I try a single target control build with both Impact and that cold freeze talent... which of course doesn't work, but hell, I tried. I was unique. I lived!
Success breeds success: Blizzard sells well because it is Blizzard and they stand for quality, which ensures that their next title has a huge budget and will have equally high production values. People looking for 'a RPG with multiplayer' have the choice between the supreme blockbuster WoW and... well... some other games that aren't nearly as successful.
If you buy one of said other games, you are the odd man out, and you may be labelled a geek by your friends because you play Everquest or Istaria or Archlol instead of an actually popular game which real people play.
Accidental anticompetitiveness: WoW is the proverbial last clipper in the age of steam in terms of gameplay, but its initial success managed to slow down evolution quite nicely by spawning a round of copycat clones and then crushing them. Imagine what WAR could have been without WoW.
People have ADD: It is a fact of player psychology that people want their skills to be universally applicable. Why is it that map variety is not such a strong selling point of first-person shooters (two words: DE Dust), and in fact, if there is a wealth of gametypes then people cluster to the same few maps anyway (two words: ONS Torlan)? Why is it that DOTA is still successful despite offering all of 1 map?
WoW's skill rotations and trancelike repetitiveness of fireball-fireball-frostbolt-frostbolt-frost nova! BANG WOOT LOL UR FROZEN-back up-frostbolt-FINISH HIM!-spam all instants keeps people playing, because they can get really good at following this skill order and it makes them feel powerful, especially the frost nova. If they set up a macro to automate add sheeping, it makes them feel even better. You don't have to think or improvise and you won't be faced with impossible situations, as long as you follow your trusted comfy cuddly button order, which takes the role of that beloved teddy bear you used to fall asleep with when you were a kid 2 years ago.
And it was you who came up with this order! (Either all by yourself by coming to the enlightened realisation that fireball has a longer range than frostbolt, or by having master googling skillz) You succeeded at the game! And in 10 levels, you can get your blizzard AoE farm build going! Woo!
And so people play on, seeking to face ever tougher ch... I mean, monsters with an ever higher level number until they too can walk tall and proud with A'dal in Shattrath and tell newbies on the forum that 'lol stfu level 41 noob rofl'. And perhaps even get into a guild and study scripted boss encounters where the boss spams AE every 30 seconds to the millisecond and your role is to stand exactly 21 yards away and hit the fireball button whenever your little red bar on Omen dips more than xyz points below the tank's.
°°°
I'm perhaps a bit cynical, but sadly, I'm currently trying to figure out how to solo 2 enemies at once with my level 21 mage without polymorph. I'm doomed. If anyone finds this bottle, stay away from Lofoten when the tide turns, or woe betide thee.
Yes yes, we get it. You love WoW. But you know what. I love being the odd man out, and not one of the media controlled sheeps.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Blizzards own game, Diablo Online which will be released in the summer of 2011 will put the nail in WoWs coffin.
That or the blasts from several nuclear explosions in the year 2012 from north korea and or china will totally put a dent in the WoW player base.
Alien attack definatley. One day they'll be sat their in their little/big pods, and while playing wow get so pissed off with some level 70 badass copse camping them, they'll get their little lasers out and....pow, byebye world of warcraft.
The Secret World Beta Weekend Screenshots and Review at Bird Eats Worm!