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A more honest EULA for SWG would have read like this:
ArcAngel3
Member Posts: 2,931
We reserve the right to sell you items in an expansion and then disable them (RotW).
We reserve the right to take features offline at any time, say that they will be restored when improved, and then never restore them (force ranking system).
We reserve the right to delete months or years worth of quest progress (jedi village and trials).
We reserve the right to delete any or all professions that you have spent weeks or months mastering (pick one of the 20 + professions deleted).
We reserve the right to market things in an expansion that we know we are going to render useless right after we receive your money for them (ToOW followed by NGE).
If we give refunds for the above expansion, we reserve the right to keep any money you paid for subscription time, even though you couldn't actually play the expansion without purchasing the time.
We reserve the right to tell you things about our plans for the game that we know are not true, and take your money under false pretenses (ToOW).
We reserve the right to remove all user access to virtual pets for a 2 year period (NGE).
If you complain about being mistreated, we reserve the right to silence you and remove you from our forums.
We reserve the right to make your profession meaningless anytime we choose (NGE).
We reserve the right to make any or all goods crafted (or purchased) by you useless at anytime (combat upgrade and NGE).
We reserve the right to make your equipment unuseable by you at any time (armour certification).
We reserve the right to charge you a premium fee, in advance, for gameplay that will be broken by our patches (pick one, but the NGE was the best example).
We reserve the right to reward you with ingame items for your loyalty, and then take them away (ADKs).
We reserve the right to promise specific bug fixes, and then not follow through (collision detection).
We reserve the right to tell you we are fast tracking server mergers, and then not follow through (self-explanatory).
If you agree to these terms, click "accept."
What the EULA actually says is that they reserve the right to update and enhance the game. I don't think update or enhance means what they think it means.
Comments
"Vaseline not included."
Nice.
'All rights reserved'
Account has been stolen, why would someone want to steal my account?
sounds about right.
Actualy this isn't much different then the original EULA and i for one would not want to see a EULA change into something like this, tho i can apriciatte the humor of it, it's far from how i would like to see future EULA's.
So sorry this doesn't read as a more honost EULA for SWG but pure a sarcastic way of showing their current EULA towards SWG as it stands now. Hope you might make a attemped into a more serious one Arc.
I appreciate the humor in it and in a way it's not far from the truth of what it really is/did. Defiantly an eye opener to any EULA and how far is too far.
SOE setting the standards of suck, we break it so you don't have to.
Sounds like a better tagline/company model/slogan.
I was a closed beta tester for SWG and then a full time player for the first two years until the fiasco known as the CU and then the bigger fiasco known as the NGE. I immediately canceled both my accounts once the NGE hit.
OP that was hilarious and was spot on to what could be described as the day 200,000 vets screamed out in horror and were suddenly silenced (well till we started posting on forums around the internet).
Yes, and i was pissed too when it happened, and yeah i woudnt mind seeing pre NGE crap swg back,
but i also accept reality that its NEVER going to happen, so crying about it years after it happened is totally pointless and waste of time.
And this stupidity about blaming SOE alone has gone too long, if you do some research you will find out LucasArts was atleast 50% as guilty about it than SOE was.
And if you get so freaked over due game, even if good game that was actually different from usual crap until they tried to turn it to new wow, you seriously need to think your priorities again.
It's just a place for us to vent, we don't hurt anyone else or bite when they enter. Just let us be. Priorities or not, no life or not, it's not going to change my views on how it should have/how it didn't work out.
I have a life if that is what you are trying to hint at and I do things outside and I have tried other MMOs but this is a haven where I can reflect on my memories and vent my hatred.
It's like wolves howling in the moon light, you ignore it...or I guess shoot em if you can without getting mauled by the other ones heh.
Anyway everyones priorities is different and what you think isn't important may be. Please try to be more open-minded on the tragedy that has bestowed us. Take care.
Wow, can't hit the quote button huh.Another person telling someone else their priorities. What gives you that right?
By the way, we already know that LucasArts was half responsible, we are not stupid.
Wow, ever heard theres other browsers than internet explorer and not all crap is compatible with them? Hate to use freaking IE just for this.
Yes, you can continue crying about NGE for next 1000 years if you want to, even start a cult if you want to.. bwaaah! NGE, Soe puhleeeeze bring it baaaccckkk! doesnt matter computers they used at the day dont even exist anymore in year 3000!
But I'd rather do something else than waste my time crying about something that will never happen. Things do get old you know? Even if the miracle would happen and they would actually manage to bring pre-nge stuff back then what? You get buggy version of SWG thats been massively outdated compared to anything released nowdays, and the fact is, like it or not, those new players who joined AFTER NGE would be equally pissed than we were the day , which would be another BAD business move from SOE. Unless they would run two versions of SWG, splitting its resources to two different developement teams.
So unlikely thats going to happen. If you want something like old SWG then pray that some of new developers decide to pick the concept up and do something similiar but with today's standards.
Another person telling someone else their priorities. What gives you that right?
By the way, we already know that LucasArts was half responsible, we are not stupid.
Wow, ever heard theres other browsers than internet explorer and not all crap is compatible with them? Hate to use freaking IE just for this.
What makes you think I am using IE? I have not use IE for the last couple years. I currently use Firefox as it is currently the best browser around.
Press the reply button after you find something constructive to say instead of nitpicking about every minor detail.
Press the reply button after you find something constructive to say instead of nitpicking about every minor detail.
I think you could take your own advice also.
I think you're getting my point on this one Reklaw
. My list shows what SOE apparently really meant when they said in their EULA that they reserved the right to update and enhance the game over time.
If SOE had spelled all of this out clearly in their EULA (which all did happen by the way), would anyone in their right mind have ever clicked the accept button?
In summary, if they can use words like "update" and "enhance" to cover all of the actions I've listed, somewhere there's a big problem.
To address the expected "get over it, you'll never get your game back" posts:
I don't want any particular game back. I got over losing the online community experience that was SWG some time ago in fact. So, what have I moved on to? Doing something about EULAs in general or how they are applied to MMO development.
SWG provides an excellent example of just how far a company will stretch a EULA to justify outrageous decisions and actions.
In my mind, either EULAs like SOE's need to change (no matter what game they are for), or the way they are interpreted and applied needs to be much better defined and possibly regulated.
There is a collaborative effort ongoing to develop more "user" friendly EULAs. I'd love to be a part of that solution. In this thread, however, I'm highlighting a problem that badly needs to be addressed.
And, as some people have noticed, I chose satire as a vehicle for making my point
.
Another person telling someone else their priorities. What gives you that right?
By the way, we already know that LucasArts was half responsible, we are not stupid.
Wow, ever heard theres other browsers than internet explorer and not all crap is compatible with them? Hate to use freaking IE just for this.
Yes, you can continue crying about NGE for next 1000 years if you want to, even start a cult if you want to.. bwaaah! NGE, Soe puhleeeeze bring it baaaccckkk! doesnt matter computers they used at the day dont even exist anymore in year 3000!
But I'd rather do something else than waste my time crying about something that will never happen. Things do get old you know? Even if the miracle would happen and they would actually manage to bring pre-nge stuff back then what? You get buggy version of SWG thats been massively outdated compared to anything released nowdays, and the fact is, like it or not, those new players who joined AFTER NGE would be equally pissed than we were the day , which would be another BAD business move from SOE. Unless they would run two versions of SWG, splitting its resources to two different developement teams.
So unlikely thats going to happen. If you want something like old SWG then pray that some of new developers decide to pick the concept up and do something similiar but with today's standards.
What exactly you mean ? i see you baawaah moaning and bitching like a litle girl baaawaaahh at the vets right now.
Everything pre NGE > current crapware.
Yep this more honest EULA need to be stickied to give people a picture what is meant by $OE if they use the term "change" or "enhance".
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Another person telling someone else their priorities. What gives you that right?
By the way, we already know that LucasArts was half responsible, we are not stupid.
Wow, ever heard theres other browsers than internet explorer and not all crap is compatible with them? Hate to use freaking IE just for this.
Yes, you can continue crying about NGE for next 1000 years if you want to, even start a cult if you want to.. bwaaah! NGE, Soe puhleeeeze bring it baaaccckkk! doesnt matter computers they used at the day dont even exist anymore in year 3000!
But I'd rather do something else than waste my time crying about something that will never happen. Things do get old you know? Even if the miracle would happen and they would actually manage to bring pre-nge stuff back then what? You get buggy version of SWG thats been massively outdated compared to anything released nowdays, and the fact is, like it or not, those new players who joined AFTER NGE would be equally pissed than we were the day , which would be another BAD business move from SOE. Unless they would run two versions of SWG, splitting its resources to two different developement teams.
So unlikely thats going to happen. If you want something like old SWG then pray that some of new developers decide to pick the concept up and do something similiar but with today's standards.
What exactly you mean ? i see you baawaah moaning and bitching like a litle girl baaawaaahh at the vets right now.
Everything pre NGE > current crapware.
Yep this more honest EULA need to be stickied to give people a picture what is meant by $OE if they use the term "change" or "enhance".
Pointless to argue with fanbois who keep using $OE. Its like speaking to wall, so I'm not even going to try.
And I for one particularily appreciate humor to make your point.
Good job!
And I for one particularily appreciate humor to make your point.
Good job!
The mindbending use of SWGs EULA is testament to SOEs sifty ability to decieve the players.Sad thing is every paragraph of this honest EULA has been proofed as real and happend during the "game changes" and "enhancing".
Why you need to frame it as Satire ? my answer is because noone expects $OE to be honest to their customer in the EULA so a honest EULA has to result in being satire and $OE 's EULA a joke noone should accept at this point.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Your post is both thought provoking and original. Nobody has ever suggested moving on before. Do you, perhaps, have a newsletter I could subscribe to?
Another person telling someone else their priorities. What gives you that right?
By the way, we already know that LucasArts was half responsible, we are not stupid.
Wow, ever heard theres other browsers than internet explorer and not all crap is compatible with them? Hate to use freaking IE just for this.
Yes, you can continue crying about NGE for next 1000 years if you want to, even start a cult if you want to.. bwaaah! NGE, Soe puhleeeeze bring it baaaccckkk! doesnt matter computers they used at the day dont even exist anymore in year 3000!
But I'd rather do something else than waste my time crying about something that will never happen. Things do get old you know? Even if the miracle would happen and they would actually manage to bring pre-nge stuff back then what? You get buggy version of SWG thats been massively outdated compared to anything released nowdays, and the fact is, like it or not, those new players who joined AFTER NGE would be equally pissed than we were the day , which would be another BAD business move from SOE. Unless they would run two versions of SWG, splitting its resources to two different developement teams.
So unlikely thats going to happen. If you want something like old SWG then pray that some of new developers decide to pick the concept up and do something similiar but with today's standards.
If you don't like what you are reading here, perhaps this forum, or internet forums in general, are not for you.
If it disturbs you enough so you have to flame people, this certainly isn't the right forum for you.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Classic!
Worst part about it is that it is all true. Point by point.
Sometimes humor has bite. GJ!
Wow, can't hit the quote button huh.Another person telling someone else their priorities. What gives you that right?
By the way, we already know that LucasArts was half responsible, we are not stupid.
Wow, ever heard theres other browsers than internet explorer and not all crap is compatible with them? Hate to use freaking IE just for this.
Yes, you can continue crying about NGE for next 1000 years if you want to, even start a cult if you want to.. bwaaah! NGE, Soe puhleeeeze bring it baaaccckkk! doesnt matter computers they used at the day dont even exist anymore in year 3000!
But I'd rather do something else than waste my time crying about something that will never happen. Things do get old you know? Even if the miracle would happen and they would actually manage to bring pre-nge stuff back then what? You get buggy version of SWG thats been massively outdated compared to anything released nowdays, and the fact is, like it or not, those new players who joined AFTER NGE would be equally pissed than we were the day , which would be another BAD business move from SOE. Unless they would run two versions of SWG, splitting its resources to two different developement teams.
So unlikely thats going to happen. If you want something like old SWG then pray that some of new developers decide to pick the concept up and do something similiar but with today's standards.
What exactly you mean ? i see you baawaah moaning and bitching like a litle girl baaawaaahh at the vets right now.
Everything pre NGE > current crapware.
Yep this more honest EULA need to be stickied to give people a picture what is meant by $OE if they use the term "change" or "enhance".
I like the sticky idea, especially for people thinking about clicking the "I accept" button for the first time. They really ought to know how SOE interprets "update" and "enhance."
In fact, the word "change" in this portion of their EULA would even be more honest. Update and enhance suggests additions, fixes, improved performance etc.. In all of the things I've listed, there were no additions in content, no fixes or performance improvements.
In fact, a lot of things were removed rather than fixed. Heck even things that worked were removed. More bugs were introduced, even to core systems that previously worked, and performance went down--partly due to the bugs, and partly due to the combat speed related lag.
Really, the most accurate terminology, and therefore the most honest, would be words like "delete, break, disable,or render obsolete."
Yes I believe an honest EULA would read something like this: "We reserve the right to, delete, break, disable or render obsolete any aspect of the game, anytime we like, at our sole discretion. This includes core game mechanics, professions, skills, animations, virutal pets, crafted goods, reward items, quest progress and/or veteran rewards. Furthermore we reserve the right to use our forums to provide you with misleading information about development plans for the game."
Also, regarding some of the "get over it" posts. I got over the loss of an enjoyable experience with a great online community. To my knowledge, however, SOE hasn't changed its EULA, or its position on how it has applied it to the game. Getting over something requires that the something is in fact "over." This EULA issue remains unresolved. Furthermore, the changes I made reference to have happened time and again over the history of the game. They are not limited to one specific event that anyone could "get over." They indicate a pattern of behaviour that has gone unchecked for far too long.
Someone may rightly point out that the MMO consumer market has punished this behaviour and that this will keep it in check. I think this is partially true. However, there is, even today, likely some poor uninformed soul in the world that is unaware of SWG's history, and is about to click the I accept button without any real idea of what he or she is getting into. I guess I'm not okay with that.
The language of any EULA should be an accurate reflection of the company's policies and actions. Currently this is not the case with SWG. Using terms like "update" or "enhance" to justify SOE's decisions is in itself blatantly misleading. People really should know this.
Challenging SOE's EULA.