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Fighting or Other Activities In MMORPG?
JoeyNipps
Member Posts: 186
Considering ONLY an MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role play game), I would like to see how many WANT the game to entail ONLY (or at least primarily) fighting oriented activities (mobs, pcs, pvp, etc. - all are fighting) vs wanting "other" activities that are NOT directly related to fighting. Please do NOT think ONLY of current games, but think about what you really would like to play day after day - month after month. Further, there might be some good discussion possible for those who enjoy discussing what "could" be in an MMORPG.
I will start. For me, fighting is good - I enjoy it. However, for me, the most IMPORTANT aspect of an MMORPG is the "RP" portion. Without many possible things to do in an MMORPG, I find that role play is severely restricted. Further (and perhaps more importantly) I find that with only fighting to do - the game (regardless of how well it is made) become tedious and boring. Life would be boring with only one thing to do (for me at least) - and so any MMORPG quickly becomes boring for me with only fighting to do.
Thus, I would like to see crafting (done well) - personally I found the crafting in UO the very best there has been (it could be improved I think however). But, again, this is where most people stop - crafting alone is not enough to keep me amused. I would like to see all sorts of activities in game - hopefully well done and NOT OOG in content - but in game so that each would further the overall immersiveness, fun and role playability of the game in total.
Thoughts?
If all else in life fails you, buy a vowel.
If all else in life fails you, buy a vowel.
Comments
Personally I would prefer a lot more exploring/searching types of activities with some fighting in the mix. I would really like to play in a world where there are a LOT of secrets, unique places to visit, and tasks to acomplish that involve little or no fighting.
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Played: AC1, DAoC, E&B, SWG
Tested: AC1, AC2, DAoC, Eve, Planetside, Rubies, Lineage 2, MU Online
More activities in an MMo are great, but my biggest problem with the games is that if one person finds a secret place, or how to craft a valuable item, it then becomes common knowledge to everyone on the internet. Don't get me wrong, I think info should be spread about good things in-game, but between characters, not on the net. That takes away the feeling of community, as well as a reason to be social.
I know not everyone plays these games to be social, so no offense. This is just the way i see it. More communities should be built in-game, not outside.
I like a bit of fighting but some games are really lacking in other activities. Look at RYL, there is nothing to do mut fight. SWG is the only real game at the moment with other activities, such as driving (i liked that touch), building and owning a house and many more. I wish to see more games make it possible to own your own house and be able to drive something, all that running is boring.
So overall I want to see some more non-combat orientated things in games.
If your having a hard time.
Take a grapefruit, make some lemonade, Then sit back and wonder how you made lemonade out of a grapefruit.
I would definitely like to see a lot more sides to MMORPGs, with lots more things to do. Combat can be one way to advance your character in one direction, but there should be other activities and paths you can take, that don't all include combat, but some of which could include a mixture of different skills and requirements.
So what are the different main lines activities could follow:
- Combat
- Social Player to Player interaction (prompted with roleplaying oppertunities, guilds etc.)
- Crafting
- Questing
- Exploring
- World interaction (I mean socializing with NPCs, learning lore etc.)
Any others?
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MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
HHHmmmm a MMORPG that is almost no fighting.... Sounds like a sims game that adds street fighting. You don't like something some one said hit the pick a fight quick key... Or NPC that run around trying to pick fights. Hours and hours of walking through pretty landscapes looking for a needle in a hay stack or trying to figure out some impossible formula can be fun but tedious.
Game would end up looking like a base ball brawl (all pushing no punching)
Kill Kill Kill....... Build build build.... Group Kill Kill Kill... and some quest for a nice artifact if i get bored of killing and building... that's all I'm asking for.... Not miles and miles of landscapes.
There are plenty of Sims based games out there if your tired of fighting things
A game should have a mix of both, fighting and peaceful activities. I'd love a game that would mix the fighting of City of Heroes with the crafting of A Tale in the Dessert.
More importantly, fighting and crafting should be completely seperated. Not crafting based on resources that can only be gathered by killing things.
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The only game I have really enjoyed is Earth and Beyond. A tale in the Desert was a close second (lack of players caused me to quit). Tried Rubies of Evertide, Linage, Dark age of Camelot, and Anarchy Online. Liked none of them.
I would be interested in other activities if they are fun or are simply worth it.
Mostly people seem to be thinking of crafting activities could include muc more e.g.(Reginal polics, (Inter)National Trading) with carvans/shiping Outposts, MMORPG oylmics or other forms of skill competion, duties or responiblities) just some random things for example.
As for crafting upto know I was always rather disappointed even games that focused on crafting like Horzions and mostly 1 dimension acccountant sort of inspiring content.
At this point i come back to my retry sentence: "I would be interested in other activities if they are fun or are simply worth it." For me these activities fail in both categories mostly prity soon.
Note: I have been first to craft top notch stuff in a MMORPG and TOP crafter in other MMORPGs so my opion is not based on general disinterest.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
Combat will probably always be a weightier in mainstream MMORPGs, but there should always be other things to do. In Asheron's Call 1, the relativley wide range of clothes available meant that when I didn't feel like hunting, I could travel from place to place, purchasing myself wierd and wonderful garments, and picking up small gifts for friends.
I really enjoy combat, but there are so many other possibilties in MMORPGs. Previously, games have often applied other systems fairly halfheartedly. That isn't good enough, because what really makes a game feel fun and immersive, is a world full of depth. Random items, that were just put in for a joke. Small easter egg type hidden secrets. Amusing monster actions that only occur in very specific circumstances. I remember in AC1 running out on the plains past some virindi (spirity ghost like monsters, wearing death shrouds and evil masks, and wielding sickles.) As I past them, suddenly a sound clip of the little boy in the 6th sense played, "I see dead people!". Things like that make you smile and enjoy and appreciate what the devs have done.
As an alternative to straight combat (though combat could be involved or even a requirement in some cases) how would you, as a player, feel about holding down a paying job in game? Now ideas like this flit around from time to time, and often are dismissed by people saying "I play MMORPGs to get away from the drag of real life! I dont want to have to worry about turning up to work on time when I am trying to relax at home!". Well this would be by no means compulsary within the game. But as you traveled around, and met NPCs, shop keepers, guardsmen, herders, you might find that some felt like they wanted to retire soon, but didn't have anyone to pass ownership to, or they might just need some help on protecting a caravan whilst it crossed the desert. A guardsmen might ask you to fill in for him so he could go home early for him and his wife's anniversary. An employer might just be looking for an extra pair of hands. The rewards from these jobs would obviously be a payment, sometimes if you did an extraspecially good job they might also give you a little present. The NPC would like you more, you might gain some invisible faction.
The idea would be that slowly, NPC salesmen and workers would fade out a little, as they are replaced by PCs trying to earn a living.
Your quality of work might have repercussions on the world - if you told a farmer you would guard his livestock from wolves, and you just went away or logged off, then the farmer might go out of business due to all of his produce being lost. The market in the next town might find a severe shortage of mutton because the farmer wasn't able to sell any to the market retailers. If a guardsman of a small hamlet entrusted you with the job of keeping lookout, and you failed to fulfil your duty, then a passing group of orcs might seize the oppertunity and invade, destroying part of the town, unless they are stopped. If you failed to do your job, you would be sacked, and replaced by an NPC who would carry out the job until another player was hired.
It wouldnt be intended as a chore, the jobs would not be challenging, though they would be involving. Im not sure how long they would take to carry out, it wouldn't require a huge amount of time, because you don't want to pin a player down and make them do something they dont want to.
So, do you think any of this could work? Would it be a good idea? Would you enjoy having this extra activity you can perform when you arent hunting?
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MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
Personally I find that the Social and Role-Playing aspects of the game are the most important, as well as a lot of possibilities for creating the character that you want. If I for example want a short skinny human blacksmith, I want to be able to create just that.
Also I would like that the games that have multiple servers have at least one Official RP-enforced server. Of course, they can't put out too many resources on paying Game Masters for walking around and kicking people that don't role-play, but at least Role-Players would know what server to go to and if a Game Master happens to overhear somebody speaking 1337 or OOC (Out of Character) then he could temporarily kick him, or if he heard him speaking very obscenely or for example making racist statements (well, I guess making racist statements counts as very obscene), then he could banhim from that server.
Just my two cents.
Which reminds me of Pseudochat systems (Chat bot) some of the better ones have been said to fool people.
If you wana fun and chat with an toaster have look at Chatterbox List I have been thinking of feeding one for afk fun. Maybe one day I realy do that rofl.
sorry i am off topic
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
Eve is full of non combat orientated activities. I am a mostly non combat player, and there is too much for me to do as it is without adding loads of combat. I am glad someone finaly made a game where combat was not the only measure of the game, where level grinding was done away with, and where the player base controls most of the economy and politics.
knowledge developed by the player is what makes for real skill in eve, only achiebvable by putting time into playing, or into forming relationships with other players or by reading all the faq and forum postings. True you can train your skills for years witout playing, but you wont have a clue what to do with the skills once learned. one can not build capital without playing, and one can not advance without playing. the skills are tools to be used, not the be all and end all of the game, there is no leveling in eve. goals and the achieving of those goals is set by the player themselves.
other activities are trading, agent missions, refining, researching, corp building, alliance building, racing, exploring and player missions. once shiva hits base buidling (ala RTS) will be an additional non combat activity.
It's a sad situation for me. I hate fighting, but i'm addicted to it. My old characters in UO sucked, but I always fought. And lost the majority of the times. It was sad. But there was nothing else to do it seemed. You could fight monsters and get little loot, or you could fight. There was always the option of joining a guild. That was cool because you could hang out with friends. But it was hard to find a guild with members on as often as you were.
P.S. This is my 600th post!
If you like UO, you should check out SWG. It is unofficially UO2. The same lead programmer made both games. Crafting in SWG took everything from UO and made it even better. Right now SWG has the best crafting feature out of every MMORPG. SWG also has the absolute most non-combat professions and activities out of any MMORPG ever made, or planned to be made. Also the most ways to join the player economy without having to engage in combat.
AO also has many unique non-combat features. Like buffing, in order to buff to get a buff. The most unique buffing system out of any MMORPG. AO used to allow players to level up to highest level without having to engage in battle. Now one can still gain experience without battling, but in order to "ding" or go from the end of one level to the start of the next level, one must kill at least 1 monster. AO also has many intresting shapeshifting features, the best atmospheric flight features. One can experience these engaging in very little combat (like mission blitzing aka doing like Indiana Jones did - run past the enemies, grab the treasure, and get out alive.)
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
EVE Online !!!
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http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
That quote is going right up there with "you could play as a human or an indian," and "i'd only buy it if it was free." You're the third person on the growing list of classic MMORPG.com slogans!
I don't mean to offend you or anything, but I seriously burst out laughing when I read that. "Socializing" with an "NPC" is like flirting with an ATM. My ATM has several predetermined responses to questions it issues to me, and based on which order I go through those questions, the thing will spit out other predetermined lines or maybe an item (money). That's EXACTLY what an NPC does in any of the existing MMORPGs. You don't argue with toasters, do you? Ever found a true companion in an old calculator? Try asking a vending machine what it thinks of the weather. These are real life's NPCs.
Reversing that logic, NPCs are an MMORPG's ATMs, toasters, calculators, and vending machines. In that light, you're never "socializing" with an NPC. All of this goes towards my philosophy that MMORPGs need to abandon NPCs entirely, making the world completely created, controlled, and contested by players. I've used this analogy before, but it still rings true: Someone asks "where am I going to buy a helmet if there are no NPC vendors?" Well, in most games, it's hard to elbow your way up to the NPC vendor, because he's usually surrounded by a dozen players all standing around, shouting, "Helmets for sale!"
That attack was a little uncalled for. I think I can remedy what I meant very simply, by just adding apostrophes. This is a new version of that statement, and hopefully now it should read how I intended it.
- World interaction (I mean 'socializing' with NPCs, learning lore etc.)
I didn't mean it at all in the way that you so quickly decided I did, I feel it is a shame that AI is not at the level at which an interaction with an NPC can be a little deeper. When I used the word socialize I did not think that anyone would possibly consider that I thought that player to NPC interaction was particularly stimulating.
Originally posted by rentantilus
you're never "socializing" with an NPC
I totally agree, and I hope you can understand that I was using the word socializing in a mock sense. What I really mean is that communicating with the information each NPC holds, doing sort of mini quest tasks, gaining faction and that sort of thing. See my later post for the 'NPC replacement scheme for kind of an idea of what I think NPCs could be used for.
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MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
-------------------------------------------
MMORPGs: Treadmills that make you fatter.
www.silkyvenom.com <-- a good site for Vanguard information
As a side note, I hate the use of "I don't mean to" because it always turns out that you are going to what you don't mean to anyway, example:
I don't mean to brag but (proceed to brag)
I don't mean to hurt your feelings but (proceed to hurt feelings)
anyway off topic and ignorable
have a nice day
I want the game to run like a D&D session end of story. Anything less is pure hack n slash. ANy game that erequires you to stand in a field and slaughter snakes or gerbils for days on end involves 0 RP.
They should have dynamic event systems spawning quests that can be taken and done (only once mind you) where the focus of those quests is not 'killing 99 orcs'
Jeonsa - Korean video games for Foreigners
My opinion is that if I want hack'n'slash, i'll just load up any ole console style rpg. But, that's not to say that I dont want the option of getting some hack'n'slash in an mmorpg. My problem with most of the mmorpg's I play these days is that the only real way to get any experience is by slashing mobs
I think SWG got the mix just right really with each profession gaining XP based on using their skills, although would look funny watching someone trying to dance a rancor to death
I just find that most games that implement a crafting system dont really make any use of the system. Sure you can craft items, great, sell em, great. But if you're not really benefiting in any way appart from cash from using those skills then why bother?
// Carl
Currently Playing : anything to keep me occupied until EQ2 comes out
// Carl
Currently Playing : EQ2 of course