Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Why use an older beta client for open beta?

24

Comments

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576
    Originally posted by URMAKER

    Originally posted by JaeSwift

    Originally posted by Alan0n


    Open and close beta testers are playing exactly the same version atm.  There is no other client anywhere around.  The same bull was told to Closed beta testers (while playing lvl 1-13) and when they implemented the "latest" patch the game even got worse.  
    So no - there is no miracle patch.  This is it.



    That's bullcrap and has been proven wrong on the official forums by many closed beta testers on several occasions. http://community.ageofconan.com if you dont believe me.

    i can't find whatever post you're talking about...maybe its being bumped several pages back by all the negative threads.

    There is no post about this.  Im playing open beta - my m8 is playing closed beta.  Not the same servers but that is the only diffrence.  Thats all the diffrence.

  • URMAKERURMAKER Member UncommonPosts: 671
    Originally posted by Alan0n

    Originally posted by URMAKER

    Originally posted by JaeSwift

    Originally posted by Alan0n


    Open and close beta testers are playing exactly the same version atm.  There is no other client anywhere around.  The same bull was told to Closed beta testers (while playing lvl 1-13) and when they implemented the "latest" patch the game even got worse.  
    So no - there is no miracle patch.  This is it.



    That's bullcrap and has been proven wrong on the official forums by many closed beta testers on several occasions. http://community.ageofconan.com if you dont believe me.

    i can't find whatever post you're talking about...maybe its being bumped several pages back by all the negative threads.

    There is no post about this.  Im playing open beta - my m8 is playing closed beta.  Not the same servers but that is the only diffrence.  Thats all the diffrence.

    yea i figured as much. i've been reading  the issues most people are having and sounds like the same stuff thats going on in cb right now.

    image

  • say10say10 Member Posts: 7

    The whole way they have handled all of this seems very suspicous if you ask me. People are very innocent and take the words of big companies because they are big companies but you have to remember that the important decisions of the company i.e. releasing the game are made by accountants.



    A lot of the things they have said are quite clearly lies. You DO NOT release an old version of the client to 50,000 potential customers, certainly not a client that clearly has as many problems as the one they have released does, unless that is all you have.



    The NDA post level 13 will be in effect until the day of release. If they were genuinely confident the game is in a good state this would NOT happen. Why would you forbid testers from talking about the game raising anticipation, unless you know they would not have anything positive to say.



    The game we are told does not really 'get going' until level 20. Then why limit potential customers to the first 13 levels, surely the obvious point would be 21 i.e. just as it starts to get interesting.



    The following things are not supported in the open beta client:

    DirectX 10

    Multi-threading

    Spellweaving



    All of these are the kind of things that, going on the games current state, will simply not function come release.



    In fact not only does the game not function for many, many people but for a significant number, including my brother, it completely breaks their gfx driver install.



    The first thing you are told in sofware engineering 101 is: One tenth of all software engineering projects fail. The British NHS database system is a classic example, a ridiculous amount of money spent on something that simply does not function.



    In my opinion they have reviewed AoC and seen that after 5 years and multiple delays it is never going to be in the state they want. The solution?

    Try and keep people quiet about the state and release the most functional parts to encourage people to buy the game. Let fileplanet pay you for the right to host the paid beta and try to recuperate as much money as possible in preorders and 1st month subscriptions, basically damage limitation.



    The game has potential, the first 5 levels whilst not ground breaking are fun enough that if the entire game ran like that I might want to play it for a couple of months. The game however will fail. It will go one of two ways, they will continue the investment and try to fix the bugs a la vanguard or they will simply let the game die a la Potbs. This is a shame as it really only needed to be playable for me to continue it, but it simply isnt. It is a buggy, poorly designed, broken piece of software.

  • TraviztyTravizty Member Posts: 114

    So we have established a few things here as to what people THINK, is anyone following topics on official forums or Euro forums? Are they also sitting around bashing the game on un official forums?

    Don't confuse a players ability, with a class being Over Powered.

    -T

  • originaleggoriginalegg Member Posts: 1,099

    About time a thread like this came up, and it is nice to see most people have a clear head about it.  But of course there will always be die hard fans to defend it. 

    "OMG you moron, it is just beta, you obviously know nothing.  Release contains magic and kitten kisses that fixes all these problem obviously...."   This line will of course not be valid in about 3 weeks when it releases.

    I am hoping they can patch things quickly and have a good launch, because this genre needs a decent game.  AoC's concepts are not new enough to withstand a bad launch, so they really need to come through big time.  I swear if i hear one more person rant and rave about the combat system being so new and interesting...

    Ive been a caster in past fantasy MMOs so i was very interested in spellweaving and read the summary of it that was posted here a little while ago, but was pretty disapointed.  It is a step in the right direction though of stepping outside the box, but AoC didnt really come up with anything too amazing with it.

    Gl AoC and to those who are hardcore fans.  Nothing is better than really enjoying a game and seeing it do well, so i cant fault people who seem to like it, but for me and many others, it is just meh...and hopefully it wont be a meh game with a meh launch.

  • demrendemren Member Posts: 41
    Originally posted by say10


    The whole way they have handled all of this seems very suspicous if you ask me. People are very innocent and take the words of big companies because they are big companies but you have to remember that the important decisions of the company i.e. releasing the game are made by accountants.



    A lot of the things they have said are quite clearly lies. You DO NOT release an old version of the client to 50,000 potential customers, certainly not a client that clearly has as many problems as the one they have released does, unless that is all you have.



    The NDA post level 13 will be in effect until the day of release. If they were genuinely confident the game is in a good state this would NOT happen. Why would you forbid testers from talking about the game raising anticipation, unless you know they would not have anything positive to say.



    The game we are told does not really 'get going' until level 20. Then why limit potential customers to the first 13 levels, surely the obvious point would be 21 i.e. just as it starts to get interesting.



    The following things are not supported in the open beta client:

    DirectX 10

    Multi-threading

    Spellweaving



    All of these are the kind of things that, going on the games current state, will simply not function come release.



    In fact not only does the game not function for many, many people but for a significant number, including my brother, it completely breaks their gfx driver install.



    The first thing you are told in sofware engineering 101 is: One tenth of all software engineering projects fail. The British NHS database system is a classic example, a ridiculous amount of money spent on something that simply does not function.



    In my opinion they have reviewed AoC and seen that after 5 years and multiple delays it is never going to be in the state they want. The solution?

    Try and keep people quiet about the state and release the most functional parts to encourage people to buy the game. Let fileplanet pay you for the right to host the paid beta and try to recuperate as much money as possible in preorders and 1st month subscriptions, basically damage limitation.



    The game has potential, the first 5 levels whilst not ground breaking are fun enough that if the entire game ran like that I might want to play it for a couple of months. The game however will fail. It will go one of two ways, they will continue the investment and try to fix the bugs a la vanguard or they will simply let the game die a la Potbs. This is a shame as it really only needed to be playable for me to continue it, but it simply isnt. It is a buggy, poorly designed, broken piece of software.



    This has all happened before... Remember AO?  They did the exact same thing then too..  

  • miagisanmiagisan Member Posts: 5,156

    Solareus makes a great point here.

    www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/177041

     

    the gold version, has never been tested.

    image

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    well, I've been beta testing for some time time. seen several builds.

    I read the notes, announcements, etc, so I know what part we are testing when.

    FC will patch together a build for specific testing purposes. Happens all the time. It's happening today, in fact. The build I'm playing right now is not the same as the one I was playing yesterday. It is designed to test something different. I can tell it's an older build, becuse some features I've gotten used to aren't there, or are only partially implemented.

    FC chose the build to use for the FP stress test based on what they needed to accomplish with the first phase of the testing. They will probably use more than one build over the course of the process to test different things. Older and newer clients.

    They aren't trying to scare anyone off, and the only people who ARE scared are the people too fucking ignorant to understand what is going on, and to read the goddamn notices, dev blogs, and other information that testers might need to know.

    People think they get to play the game for free, and then bitch when they actually have to test something. They are told that they are being allowed into a "stress test", and then bitch about performance.

    Stupid.

    Either do the job you volunteered to do by joining the testing or shut up and wait for release.

     

    Edit: and to think, I was just talking to other CB testers last night about how sorry we felt for you guys being stuck with a shit client in a stress test.

    Guess you deserve it.

    image

  • originaleggoriginalegg Member Posts: 1,099

     

    Originally posted by originalegg


    About time a thread like this came up, and it is nice to see most people have a clear head about it.  But of course there will always be die hard fans to defend it. 
    "OMG you moron, it is just beta, you obviously know nothing.  Release contains magic and kitten kisses that fixes all these problem obviously...."   This line will of course not be valid in about 3 weeks when it releases.
    Originally posted by Wharg0ul
     
    They aren't trying to scare anyone off, and the only people who ARE scared are the people too fucking ignorant to understand what is going on, and to read the goddamn notices, dev blogs, and other information that testers might need to know.
     

     

    hey there champ, calm down a bit before you start calling people ****ing ignorant.  Maybe others are not as blessed as you are with superhuman technical understanding.

    Point still stands though with the fact that they release within the month, and a form of the game that is availible is having a really tough time.  Sure I can open up and accept the idea that the gold version will be better...but significantly better where none of these problems exist? sorry not happening.

    This is nothing new, it has been done before by other MMOs not ready for launch, so it isnt a surprise.  Maybe one day there will be a game that is ready for release when it releases.  Wether this client is the one we see on release DOES NOT MATTER...the fact that any version of a game that they expect to sell as a "finished product" (yes i know MMOs evolve after release) is in a state like this is unacceptable.

    edit: so i dont sound like a troll/hater...I am really pullin for this game to have a great release and be amazing.  And will keep an eye on it after release and may pick it up eventually, but there is no way I am spending my money on a game that is obviosuly not finished right now.

  • KrytycalKrytycal Member Posts: 520

    It amazes me how naive people can be.

     

    Come on guys, we're talking about Funcom here. You know, those guys who over hyped every aspect of the game, the guys who made open beta available only to those with paid subscriptions ensuring that only the most diehard followers got in, those guys who prohibit closed beta testers from talking about their above level 13 experience, who encourage these very same beta testers to talk to the public about their greatly improved early experience and additions. They are not stupid, they know the importance of marketing and how vital it is not to pull a Vanguard. Heck, they openly admitted that they knew open beta was nothing but marketing for the game. You have to be retarded to believe that Funcom would screw open beta with something as stupid as that.

    You wanna know why? These guy said it best:

    "Whyy would Funcom shoot themselves in the foot 16 days before release if they have an optimized version already? Why test bugs that are already fixed? Why stress test a client that you have already optimized? There is no logical answer to those questions which leads me to believe that these issues DO NEED testing because they are not yet optimized. ADDITIONALLY the FC reps have been asking for information on the crashes from people who post on message boards. You don’t actively seek out information for problems you have fixed. I don’t think it’s lazy programming… just standard mmorpg crap that needs to be fixed. FC cutting it close."

    Complete review here: http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=1016

     I do admit though that "but it's an older client" and "it's just the debugger" are excellent excuses for the AoC apologizers.

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

    I know it doesnl;t make sense, but it seems to be true. ask someone who tried pvp beta weekend and open beta, they say they didn't have many or any bugs in the weekend beta.

    not sure whats going on but in the pvp weekend there where fewer issues. I had a few bugs and crashes nothing too bad, it is beta after all.

    so no idea whats going on.

    My blog: image

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

     

    Originally posted by originalegg


     
    Originally posted by originalegg


    About time a thread like this came up, and it is nice to see most people have a clear head about it.  But of course there will always be die hard fans to defend it. 
    "OMG you moron, it is just beta, you obviously know nothing.  Release contains magic and kitten kisses that fixes all these problem obviously...."   This line will of course not be valid in about 3 weeks when it releases.
    Originally posted by Wharg0ul
     
    They aren't trying to scare anyone off, and the only people who ARE scared are the people too fucking ignorant to understand what is going on, and to read the goddamn notices, dev blogs, and other information that testers might need to know.
     

     

    hey there champ, calm down a bit before you start calling people ****ing ignorant.  Maybe others are not as blessed as you are with superhuman technical understanding.

    Point still stands though with the fact that they release within the month, and a form of the game that is availible is having a really tough time.  Sure I can open up and accept the idea that the gold version will be better...but significantly better where none of these problems exist? sorry not happening.

    This is nothing new, it has been done before by other MMOs not ready for launch, so it isnt a surprise.  Maybe one day there will be a game that is ready for release when it releases.  Wether this client is the one we see on release DOES NOT MATTER...the fact that any version of a game that they expect to sell as a "finished product" (yes i know MMOs evolve after release) is in a state like this is unacceptable.

    look, man...I've played 3 different builds of the game in the last few days, all of them along various stages of development.

     

    The issues we see in some of these various builds were solved weeks if not months ago.

    The version they patched me to today is missing key elements that were in the version I played yesterday, for example.

    So...how can ANY OF YOU judge the state the game is in if you've never even played the actual game, just old builds designed for focus testing?

    Answer: you can't. But that doesn't stop you, does it?

    image

  • DunrothDunroth Member Posts: 15
    Originally posted by originalegg


     
    Originally posted by originalegg


    About time a thread like this came up, and it is nice to see most people have a clear head about it.  But of course there will always be die hard fans to defend it. 
    "OMG you moron, it is just beta, you obviously know nothing.  Release contains magic and kitten kisses that fixes all these problem obviously...."   This line will of course not be valid in about 3 weeks when it releases.
    Originally posted by Wharg0ul
     
    They aren't trying to scare anyone off, and the only people who ARE scared are the people too fucking ignorant to understand what is going on, and to read the goddamn notices, dev blogs, and other information that testers might need to know.
     

     

    hey there champ, calm down a bit before you start calling people ****ing ignorant.  Maybe others are not as blessed as you are with superhuman technical understanding.

    Point still stands though with the fact that they release within the month, and a form of the game that is availible is having a really tough time.  Sure I can open up and accept the idea that the gold version will be better...but significantly better where none of these problems exist? sorry not happening.

    This is nothing new, it has been done before by other MMOs not ready for launch, so it isnt a surprise.  Maybe one day there will be a game that is ready for release when it releases.  Wether this client is the one we see on release DOES NOT MATTER...the fact that any version of a game that they expect to sell as a "finished product" (yes i know MMOs evolve after release) is in a state like this is unacceptable.

    edit: so i dont sound like a troll/hater...I am really pullin for this game to have a great release and be amazing.  And will keep an eye on it after release and may pick it up eventually, but there is no way I am spending my money on a game that is obviosuly not finished right now.


    I have to agree with this last post.  I mean just think about it for a minute. Beta is used to find bugs in the game.  But if they have some other client that is clearly more advanced, but 90% of the people don't get to see it then how are they supposed to find and squash bugs?  And if there is an all mighty and more advanced (technically speaking) client, then why are people looking for bugs in an old client if it's already outdated and improved?

    If in actuality there were a better client the only reason to have players test out the old client would be so they could find the bugs that testers supposedly found months ago. "Hey guys a bunch of testers found these bugs already, see how many you can detect before launch approaches."  And in reality that scenario would be a big waste of time and no one would go for it, especially considering they had to pay to get in.  But then again people did sign up for it.  Idk what they expect to come out of this exactly but I'm more than a bit skeptical.

    image

  • LeucentLeucent Member Posts: 2,371

    Lol this game is not going to be very stable in big sieges that anyone can see.

  • URMAKERURMAKER Member UncommonPosts: 671
    Originally posted by Consensus


    I know it doesnl;t make sense, but it seems to be true. ask someone who tried pvp beta weekend and open beta, they say they didn't have many or any bugs in the weekend beta.
    not sure whats going on but in the pvp weekend there where fewer issues. I had a few bugs and crashes nothing too bad, it is beta after all.
    so no idea whats going on.

    this reminds of an old game i used to play. it seemed every patch for however many things they fixed they broke just as many other things. so even though the builds were newer it was just as buggy or worst than the previous build.

    image

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    Originally posted by Dunroth

    Originally posted by originalegg


     
    Originally posted by originalegg


    About time a thread like this came up, and it is nice to see most people have a clear head about it.  But of course there will always be die hard fans to defend it. 
    "OMG you moron, it is just beta, you obviously know nothing.  Release contains magic and kitten kisses that fixes all these problem obviously...."   This line will of course not be valid in about 3 weeks when it releases.
    Originally posted by Wharg0ul
     
    They aren't trying to scare anyone off, and the only people who ARE scared are the people too fucking ignorant to understand what is going on, and to read the goddamn notices, dev blogs, and other information that testers might need to know.
     

     

    hey there champ, calm down a bit before you start calling people ****ing ignorant.  Maybe others are not as blessed as you are with superhuman technical understanding.

    Point still stands though with the fact that they release within the month, and a form of the game that is availible is having a really tough time.  Sure I can open up and accept the idea that the gold version will be better...but significantly better where none of these problems exist? sorry not happening.

    This is nothing new, it has been done before by other MMOs not ready for launch, so it isnt a surprise.  Maybe one day there will be a game that is ready for release when it releases.  Wether this client is the one we see on release DOES NOT MATTER...the fact that any version of a game that they expect to sell as a "finished product" (yes i know MMOs evolve after release) is in a state like this is unacceptable.

    edit: so i dont sound like a troll/hater...I am really pullin for this game to have a great release and be amazing.  And will keep an eye on it after release and may pick it up eventually, but there is no way I am spending my money on a game that is obviosuly not finished right now.


    I have to agree with this last post.  I mean just think about it for a minute. Beta is used to find bugs in the game.  But if they have some other client that is clearly more advanced, but 90% of the people don't get to see it then how are they supposed to find and squash bugs?  And if there is an all mighty and more advanced (technically speaking) client, then why are people looking for bugs in an old client if it's already outdated and improved?

    If in actuality there were a better client the only reason to have players test out the old client would be so they could find the bugs that testers supposedly found months ago. "Hey guys a bunch of testers found these bugs already, see how many you can detect before launch approaches."  And in reality that scenario would be a big waste of time and no one would go for it, especially considering they had to pay to get in.  But then again people did sign up for it.  Idk what they expect to come out of this exactly but I'm more than a bit skeptical.

    see, this is what I'm talking about. People don't pay attention.

    Does "Stress test for server stability" ring a bell at all?

    They don't need you to report bugs that have already been fixed. They need you to try to crash teh servers using a build that was PROBABLY chosen because it generates more server traffic thus increasing the stress.

    Test using heavy load, so that under optimised load there are no issues.

     

    image

  • URMAKERURMAKER Member UncommonPosts: 671

    hardware is already in place for 600k people.

    image

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    ya know what? I give up. people are too damn determined to bitch, whine, and predict doom to think about things logically or even use a bit of common sense.

    I'm done here, I have a stress test to do.

    image

  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    Originally posted by URMAKER


    hardware is already in place for 600k people.
    ok, parting shot....600k people have never logged on to that hardware. It needs to be tested and stressed to see if it will in fact put up with 600k people.

    FC is simulating a worst-case scenario so that we don't have to have a real one come launch day.

    Which of course, was posted quite a while ago when they mentioned that this would be a stress test, but no one pays attention to these things.

    image

  • originaleggoriginalegg Member Posts: 1,099

    yes, the goal is to stress test the servers.  I think most people agree with you.  The open beta is not meant for gameplay, balance, etc bugs but it is there to stress the servers.

    that being said...why on earth would you not want to stress the client that is GOING TO BE ACTUALLY PLAYED?  i admit im a computer tech donkey, but this is just common sense here.  And even if there is a legit reason, which im sure there is to some extent, they are still getting lots of bad press from this. 

    Most importantly though, my point still stands that there is 0 EXCUSE for a game this close to release to have any problems like this, on any build that they feel is recent enough to do any kind of testing on.  Unfortunatly they see it as ok, because we keep buying these unfinished games.

  • severity3severity3 Member Posts: 264
    Originally posted by Wharg0ul


     
    Originally posted by URMAKER


    hardware is already in place for 600k people.
    ok, parting shot....600k people have never logged on to that hardware. It needs to be tested and stressed to see if it will in fact put up with 600k people.

     

    FC is simulating a worst-case scenario so that we don't have to have a real one come launch day.

    Which of course, was posted quite a while ago when they mentioned that this would be a stress test, but no one pays attention to these things.

       In fairness...they called it an open beta til it started...then it suddenly BECAME a stress test.

    image

  • SlytheSlythe Member UncommonPosts: 952
    Originally posted by Wharg0ul


     
    Originally posted by URMAKER


    hardware is already in place for 600k people.
    ok, parting shot....600k people have never logged on to that hardware. It needs to be tested and stressed to see if it will in fact put up with 600k people.

     

    FC is simulating a worst-case scenario so that we don't have to have a real one come launch day.

    Which of course, was posted quite a while ago when they mentioned that this would be a stress test, but no one pays attention to these things.

    I understand what you're saying, but why are they collecting bug reports then if it's just a stress test? And why use an out-of-date build to test the servers? And why collect bug reports on an old version of the game? These are the questions I have at least.

  • BigMangoBigMango Member UncommonPosts: 1,821

     

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul
    Edit: and to think, I was just talking to other CB testers last night about how sorry we felt for you guys being stuck with a shit client in a stress test.
     

     

    Absolutely.

    I'm also sorry you guys are having problems with the open beta client, because I just tried the CB client again with a new char on the first levels (1-10) and the thing flies. I get none of the problems you guys are seeing. Instances loading screens go from 1 second for things like the Tortage Inn to 4 seconds max for the bigger instances.

    Everything runs smooth and fast. The only minor trouble I get with the current client is that it freezes on me about once per hour (requires killing the process and restarting the game), but this is one of the usual beta things that get fixed easily.

    Playing with all the settings maxed out on a C2D 6400 2.13Ghz, nvidia 8800GT, 4Gb ram, vista x64.

  • RidgelonRidgelon Member Posts: 28

    Beta's working great for me, just that the load time on screens is very long..I have a brand new pc, very high end.  Everything runs smoothly except the load screens.

  • ThachsanhThachsanh Member Posts: 331

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul



    They aren't trying to scare anyone off, and the only people who ARE scared are the people too fucking ignorant to understand what is going on, and to read the goddamn notices, dev blogs, and other information that testers might need to know.
    People think they get to play the game for free, and then bitch when they actually have to test something. They are told that they are being allowed into a "stress test", and then bitch about performance.

    Stupid.
    Either do the job you volunteered to do by joining the testing or shut up and wait for release.
     
    Edit: and to think, I was just talking to other CB testers last night about how sorry we felt for you guys being stuck with a shit client in a stress test.
    Guess you deserve it.

    Actually, the ignorant one is you. If what you describe is true, I find that very unusual that Funcom is still doing that at this stage of development. Focus testing should not still exist 2 weeks from launch. The usual practice in game development is from the time of "gone gold" to the time of launch is "crunch" time. Meaning no new features will be added to the game. The only thing developer do in this time frame is to stabilize the game and fix critical bugs. They should not still mess around with multiple code branches.

    The concept of stress test is not to test the client code. Stress test is to test the network and server infrastructure and may be server code. How they behave under load. If you say they release an old buggy version of client for stress-testing purposes, that make no sense at all. You have to take whatever PR people tell you with a grain of salt. That's their functionality, to spin the truth.

    The release version of the game that you will buy from store is actually a much older version of the game than the one we are using right now. Judging from the open beta client, it will be a huge patch right at launch day.

    Also, like I said above, after "gone gold" nothing new will be added to the game. So if they don't have DX10 and Spellweaving ready for testing right now, they will not make the launch. Well, there is still small chances that Funcom will pull something stupid and push the changes directly from internal to release. Judging from the Anarchy Online launch, that's possible. I don't know if any of you were at AO launch but it's actually went into MMORPG history as a gigantic disaster. AO was used everywhere for a long time as an example of bug infested MMO at launch.

Sign In or Register to comment.