Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
AoC Expectation Reality Check
Tron420
Member Posts: 50
I don't know if anyone has posted about this subject yet, but I have been reading a lot of concerns regarding polish and endgame content. Launch expectations on new MMOs these days seem to be a little unrealistic and I would like to address the topic. All new games are put up and compared to what WoW is _TODAY_. That is completely unreasonable and ridiculous. To illustrate my point, lets reminisce back to late 2004 / early 2005 with the launch of WoW.
Does everyone remember those days? I would suspect not. Being one of the many who started WoW at launch I have a recollection, as vague as it may be, of what it was like back then. Let me remind everyone (I hope I get these details right) what it was like. End game content consisted of Scholomance (which started as a 40 man???) and Strath. Black Rock Spire, Molten Core and Onyxia's lair were still in the works. PvP consisted exclusively of ganking with the most exciting PvP being guild vs guild when getting ready for a raid. All of these basic instances that attributed to WoW's wild success were only on the drawing board at release.
And that is just the content. Does anyone remember the stability / gameplay issues? Remember that taking the zep from Org used to drop you in the ocean instead of zoning? Remember heinous server queues? Remember the lag? I could go on, but I think I have made my point. WoW was a completely different animal back in early 2005.
Anyway, I needed to remind everyone about how much polish the "king of polish" really had back in the day. I just get so mad that the ignorance of these internet morons who compare the release polish of AoC to that of WoW which has roughly 3 years and 2 billion dollars under its belt. Apples and oranges people, apples and oranges...
Comments
We the reasonable gaming crowd hear ya.
Besides.. every single mmo comes out the same way. Why, after all these years, is anyone surprised in any way about the standard release cycle of mmos (and most other software in fact) is beyond me. Every single time you get people whining about it 'being released as beta' etc etc. Great. All software releases the same way.
Good post, and I was there at launch and from Closed Beta to Open Beta. I try to be around for every games launch and OB in the hopes that each game will add something new and fresh to our beautiful MMO genre. This is why I defend new games, and have high hopes for all contenders. We should all want all of these games to succeed otherwise there will not be any MMO's to go back to or switch between. There won't be any options.
Oh Captain Placeholder!
How I miss thee!
Yup good point, but don't be TOO harsh on them. First off, most of the people compare it to WoW in its present state because they weren't there at launch, they're still relatively new. Since it's on top right now, it's almost an unconscious reaction to compare new games to the king. Now all the old timers have a right to correct these people, but there's far too many of them out there. It's not wrong, it's just a part of life.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
IMO It is not unrealistic to ask for a polished game at launch, i can understand a lack of end-game content, but why do we have to endure month's of bugs, exploits and unstability just because "thats how WoW did it".
First of all, to realisticly challenge WoW's current hold over the MMO genre, you have to match what WoW has achieved and then beat it, why would someone move from WoW to a buggy, unstable game with no end-game content. You have to have a better product than the opposition if you want to atleast be competitive and thats why Vanguard and other games have failed.
It's not too much to ask the developer's to play test their game and get the game breaking bug's out before launch, IMO Age of Conan COULD be the penultimate example of how an MMORPG with potential will ultimately fail due to rushed launch and lack of play testing. If this happens then that is just a good thing for the genre and hopefully other game companies can learn from funcom's mistake's.
People who share your opinion are doing nothing but hurting the genre that you enjoy by endorsing half-finished, rushed to launch games.
But I think people are referring to the polish of WoW when it was released, cause Id have to say it was the most polished mmo I've played on release, game play polished not the 'queues' and such thats not game play thats one of thetechnical issue all mmos had an have.
I am confident that Funcom will get the launch right, or people will eat them alive and AO's past will come back bitting them in the ass.
Tron, I don't disagree with much.
How ever, Funcom has promised that we have in game as we speak mounted combat, pvp-mini games, 12 PvE end game instances, Player cities, crafting, battle keeps, and the list goes on. You've got to remember, Funcom recently said that there is no bar room brawling mini game (yet) and it was one of their selling points for the longest time. Who is to say that Funcom won't have any of these at launch? Who is to say that Funcom may have some yet unknown goal the server has to accomplish before retail client 40-80 stuff is unlocked? Funcom does have a history of saying one thing and providing another if you remember AO's history.
Now, I'm not saying you are wrong. A lot of what you say is spot on. Most games today are no WoW (at launch). They are much worse. LOTRO was much better than WoW at release. Who is to say where Funcom's launch will land.
I hope it is the best one todate. The thing that irks me about the entire gaming community is the MY game vs YOUR game mentality. Many of us play multiple MMOGs.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Also, WoW was unplayable for at least 3 days after launch, which is why all of us with launch accounts have those "1 day play time" x 3 sentences in our account billing history. After those 3 days they added new servers, but it was still far from bug free.
I think with every MMO, even in development, there will be unforeseen problems that occur when so many different people from so many different locations with so many different hardware setups all try to log on.
No, AoC's launch will not be perfect. What will truly matter is how long it takes them to get it to a playable state. I'm a little worried, based off of their AO history, but only time will tell.
Great post, OP. I'm sure I pretty much just repeated what everyone else said, but oh well. I'm glad to see something other than "AoC is perfect" and "AoC sux go WAR" threads
.
People sure weren't this kind to Vanguard on its release.
Nope. I don't judge new MMOs vs. current WoW. My yardstick for the state an MMO should reach before launch is exemplified by the LotRO launch.
LotRO has a lot more to it than when it launched a year ago, but when it did launch the client was in excellent shape, the servers behaved and the core launch day content and features where polished and sufficient for enjoyment of the game.
LotRO is not the game I would have liked it to be, but Turbine launched in excellent shape and has followed up with many new features and additional content in the year following launch.
If Funcom can tweak the client and servers sufficiently to keep load times under 20 seconds, greatly lessen the frequency and impact of "stalling" while loading textures and finish the necessary polish, the game MIGHT be in good shape for launch on the 20th.
The caveat is that we have no idea what the game is like beyond Tortage. That Tortage isn't currently perfect makes me worry about the state of the vast majority of the game we have no information on.
I'm not canceling my pre-order, but I'm not canceling any of my current games either.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I'll probably avoid these forums at launch as well, because I'll be playing the game. Hopefully it turns out for the better. Otherwise the flamers and haters will have a field day.
I agree though... LotRO launch should be what all MMO devs look towards, but I doubt it will happen.
It's funcom who needs the reality check!
The days of releasing crap and then patching it for 6 months to an acceptable level are OVER!
This seems like the last dev team to realise it.
It will be a very hard lesson for them to learn.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
The initial release of a mmo is almost always a mess (server crashes, etc). If I'm interested in a mmo i usually pick it up 2-3 months after release.
When it comes to AoC funcom needs to iron out the stability issues. People generally will deal with it for a few weeks max before quiting (some just in a few days). I cant stand horrible lag and crashes myself and thats why i stay away for the first few months.
I'm really hoping AoC suceeds. I have nothing agaisnt Funcom and I'm 100% sure they are working at 100% to get these issues resolved. Im hoping they don't discourage too many people if the release is a crashing mess.
Smooth sailing = smooth release
Exactly what i was thinking. If they limit the 'open beta' to level 13, even though the 'tutorial' ends at 20 and the 'real game' starts after that, it does not send a very positive signal. The early starter will only be to 20, no real game either, although it is common practice to limit early starters and that is fine with me, one could suspect that there are still problems.
One other fear i have is crafting, it starts at 40, again setting an unecessary level limit that one could view as delaying it because it is still not finished or has problems.
Part from the design issues that annoyed me in this 'open beta' (see my other thread) the game looks great and i particularly loved the dungeons and the great light/shadow effects. It does have potential and i hope as much as anyone that it will be a successful release.
Exactly what i was thinking. If they limit the 'open beta' to level 13, even though the 'tutorial' ends at 20 and the 'real game' starts after that, it does not send a very positive signal. The early starter will only be to 20, no real game either, although it is common practice to limit early starters and that is fine with me, one could suspect that there are still problems.
One other fear i have is crafting, it starts at 40, again setting an unecessary level limit that one could view as delaying it because it is still not finished or has problems.
Part from the design issues that annoyed me in this 'open beta' (see my other thread) the game looks great and i particularly loved the dungeons and the great light/shadow effects. It does have potential and i hope as much as anyone that it will be a successful release.
Great news though! They just lifted the level 20 cap on the early start. There is no cap anymore.
Although I am sad as I wanted to get my main and alt to 20 during the early release...
I remember wow buggy.
132 disconnects; 3 days to create an accound and so on.
On the other hand:; anyone remember LOTRO launch? It was polished all the way and that made a huge success...
I think a launch is an important factor for most people...some might not care, they might grind their teeth but make it through to better times, it all depends on how much they personally like the game. LoTRO had a good launch and that's a good point.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I think a launch is an important factor for most people...some might not care, they might grind their teeth but make it through to better times, it all depends on how much they personally like the game. LoTRO had a good launch and that's a good point.
Yeah it just goes to show that different people like different things. For me I could have cared less that LotRO had a smooth launch because I couldn't get past char creation. I just couldn't make a toon that I thought looked good or that I could get into so I never played.
I haven't minded the buggiest of launches though and I actually love the mayhem, panic, and mass hysteria that MMO launches create.
Thats just it-we are reaching a point where the MMO market is sorta mature. We have a sense of history, we have watched games launch, fail, succede, change over time. There is a collective memory of the industry from its infancy through to its present early teen years.
The days of games getting weeks or even months to get to a playable state are long long long gone. The days of releasing with huge amounts of content missing are long gone. One of the principal differences between now and "those days" is we are all currently playing something. A game DOES have to be as good at launch as the older games are one, two or three years out-seeing as the only way they are going to get subscripers its to entice players to leave wow/lotro/eq/eve etc.
Nobody in thier right mind will leave LOTRO or WOW for a game that is 6 months away from being fully playable. Nobody will abandon mature pvp in daoc/wow/eve for some sort of slap happy half assed as yet complete version in a new game.
The bar has risen. What was once considered tolerable is now totally unacceptable. Game companies should know this by now-the landscape is covered in the tombstones of companies and games that still think its 1999 or 2000 in terms of release quality.
If you do not release strong, if your game is totally incomplete, if you release for tommorrow's computer not today's, if you fail to deliver on most of your major promises the gaming market will not forgive you-the forums will explode, the reviews will crucify and before you know it you are absorbed by SOE where you will remain in MMO purgatory forever.
I hope AOC is a smashing success-the market needs one-badly! I hope funcom delivers. But the early signs certainly look a tad disturbing. You could delete AOC from most of these posts and replace it with Vanguard and theyd be 95% relevant. This is not a good sign.
The only game we've seen really succede in the past two years is LOTRO. Everything else has totally tanked. Of those tanked games-just about everyone-released in an incomplete state, released with major features missing and gameplay that lacked creativty, or a true focus. Release complete and with few flaws or die. I do believe that is what the market has been telling us since Vanguard started the failure cascade and fury/hellgate/tabula rasa and ptobs joined them.
I'm afraid while you reminis you about days of old you are forgetting that times change. What was good competative on the market 5 years ago is not competative today. It doesn't matter what happened in the past what you are trying to do is sell something today. If it doesn't have a compelling sales point and isn't upto the competition it will fail. Simple. When wow came out it was competing with eq and daoc mostly. eq2 came out the same time. So while those other games had there strong points what wow did was make a game that was far easier and more accessable. That was the hook for wow. They also did have a pretty good quality product.
Today any game launching needs to launch against the existing marketplace and anything is going to have to deliver quality or people will just walk away and stay with wow, eq2, or maybe even vanguard
Ha just had to put that in there...
---
Ethion
I think a launch is an important factor for most people...some might not care, they might grind their teeth but make it through to better times, it all depends on how much they personally like the game. LoTRO had a good launch and that's a good point.
Yeah it just goes to show that different people like different things. For me I could have cared less that LotRO had a smooth launch because I couldn't get past char creation. I just couldn't make a toon that I thought looked good or that I could get into so I never played.
I haven't minded the buggiest of launches though and I actually love the mayhem, panic, and mass hysteria that MMO launches create.
LOL, you basically just gave Funcom carte blanche to have a shitty launch, and you like it?
I hate to disagree.
I've been working (Yes, working.) with the MMOG World for like 5 years now and LoTRO is far from beeing a success. I could list many reasons for so, but LoTRO only had a small amount of triumph because of the Tolkien license. If you take it away from LoTRO the game is pretty much empty. There are several flaws on the game, and i've seen it listed as a failure on many websites.
The MMO market changed a lot from the release of WoW up to now, and i really think that today the most important part of a MMOG is the first impression. People won't spend like 3 months playing a game hoping that "it will get better", people want to play it NOW.
On other hand, every game is about fun. If you're having fun, then why should you care ? For me it's a little paradox that the companies have to face. Some people WILL have fun and will play your game, but if you fail to deliver what you promised, you wont get the desired number of subscribers. And that's about it. Every company is about financial results, they strive to create a good game so they can get subscribers in return. It's the same old story: You want something, they sell something, if that's good you will buy it, if not, well.. Everyone saw Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, even LoTRO to name a few. Games that promised to shake the world and did little impact on the market.
The point is: Funcom have a fun game. AoC is pretty decent at the current state. But if they fail to deliver a smooth launch, it will suffer badly from bad propaganda.
I really think, and hope sine i already did my CE pre-order hehe, that Funcom will fix the most game breaking issues before May 20th. But if not: Well, then we have 2 options. We wait till it's fixed, or we leave it for good. If you're not having fun with a game, then something is wrong with you. So, let's hope that Funcom can deliver what the market wants.
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my first language ;p
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
OP:
I agree 100% with what you've said in this post. I think people have been way too hard on AoC and other games recently released. It is entirely unrealistic to compare new games to WOW in its current state. It is unfair to any developer to be held to this standard on release. Problem is, most peoples' expectations are far too high now...
No one is ever given enough of a chance anymore to get their game up to snuff.