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Do dungeons need to have an objective?
Zindaihas
Member UncommonPosts: 3,662
By objective, I mean some sort of conclusion...a goal if you will. Should there be a boss mob at the end sitting in a throne room with all kinds of nice stuff or maybe some vital piece to solving a major quest? Or is it enough to simply create a "sandbox" dungeon, a place where you can go in and explore, pick up some experience and maybe acquire a few items along the way?
I think it creates a greater sense of anticipation when you know there is something to strive for. You may not be able to get there with each attempt, but at least you know it's there.
Comments
I like the way DAoC did their dungeons before the whole instancing crap. You could go in there and see people exp'ing along side of you. It would not lock out all the others and they were free to come and go they pleased. There was various rooms in the furthest depths where you could find named mobs that would drop nice stuff.
It lent itself to the whole open world with tons of people around. If you happened to catch a bit of bad luck and die, you'd be able to ask around and see if anybody was around that could rez you. It made it feel like a nice community.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
I always liked something surprising at the end of a dungeon.. A reward is always nice, but it could also have an interesting quest piece at the end. Perhaps once you complete the dungeon, you and your group are given a special quest to complete. Or mabye you are given an interesting treasure map, which will lead to an interesting treasure, but it will be a challenge.
It should be mixed up though. One time it's a monster at the end, the next it's an interesting quest. Too many monsters at the end of a dungeon can become a little dull.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
I'm of the opinion that a dungeon should have multiple goals, but I'm one of those crazy loonies who thinks that a dungeon should serve some sort of purpose beyond an EXP treadmill.
Creatures should live inside of the dungeon, sure, but they should have their own little goals and what have you. Brain storm! ...
* Guards should be posted at certain locations. Different guards for different locations (some do this)
* Some monsters should have a kitchen, and runners should go between the kitchen and the sloppy cave that monsters consider to be a mess hall.
* There should be "sleeping rooms" or dens that can be slaughtered or snuck past
* There should be "practice rooms" / drill rooms for the more intelligent monsters.
* There should be minor treasure rooms, such as in the dens, all the way up to the Master's room.
* The Master, if there is one, should make rounds rather than being a static creature that sits in - or spawns in - the "throne room" only.
* Some monsters could have "sacred places", like a glowing lake, churches, or whatever is appropriate for them.
The dens and practice rooms should not be static, nor should the amount of monsters / mobs in each.
The solo and lower level players that attack the "yard trash" and the mobs directly inside of the dungeon could be referred to by the monsters as "part of the steady assualt that they make against us". Or however the monsters would say something like this.
It's an absolute waste of space to have mobs standing around in rooms waiting to be slaughtered, and it's a waste of grey matter to have only one meaningful goal inside of a dungeon.
* There could be plans to steal
* Plans to plant to disrupt a possible assault, "or whatever it is they're planning"
* Poison to sneak into their food supply (either outside or inside of the dungeon, with exp & rewards received appropriate to the challenge)
* A runner may need to be "captured", charmed, and his memories altered to turn a would-be monster meeting into a monster slaughter - the (solo) player move in and loots the remains. To make it challenging, the solo player is put into a dialogue with the monster (ala Bioware games) where they must implant the altered memories. Give suggestions that are too unrealistic and you break your charm and must defeat the creature.
* Said monster meeting could be ambushed and slaughtered by players, but this draws a lot of attention (and loot!) to the players
Ya know, there are just so many things that CAN be done with a dungeon other than "beat boss mob, loot random uber item/s".
...but hey, you game designers, you just keep right on filling your treadmills up with "kill 10 shamans" and "collect 10 tails", you unimaginative fops.
edit: Oh, and while I'm dreaming of a good mmo, I might as well request that they stop relying so much on instancing. I want a MMO, not something that feels like an Unreal Tournament map. Thanks much.
BItter? Me? Yes, I suppose so.
It looks like you've been wanting to vent on this subject for a long time, Mysk. Some interesting points. I agree with the idea of having multiple objectives in a dungeon. Spread the layout over a huge area and let groups fan out in several directions. I know I always felt like there was a lot more options to pick from when there were many named mobs and lots of rare drops.
i didnt read anything but the title of the thread.
my opinion.... i hate mindless dungeons like in lineage2, requiem, archlord. requiem dungeons sure is instance and some quest tell you to go kill particular mobs in dungeon.... but nothing special... the dungeon in requiem are plain... after u kill particular mob for quest... u can go ahead and leave dungeon. if you continue to go deep inside the dungeon... it is dead end nothingness.
i like dungeons in Mabinogi.... boss at the end of dungeon. and Mabinogi got the greatest combat.
Do you know how happy I would be to play a game with content like this? God I'd be over the bloody moon at the endless options. stealth classes and invis spells would have a real purpose beside that one free hit on a monster...
i hate that games now don't even have AI for thier monsters... they could do so much better just by giving the monsters a small set life goals..
I myself am truely tired of the one way to do this dungeon and it's totaly instanced.. it's boring.
I also miss the DAoC non-instanced dungeons, they felt much more like a MMO then current trends.
Ketsum
There was a really really popular idea which I didn't quite understand on the WoW forums once, regarding a 'super-dungeon'. I'm not sure if the appeal of that was to have a dungeon with many more people in it, or simply a dungeon where you can't see it all in a day. Was interesting anyway.
I know I'd like to see dungeons with no end boss. Maybe instead of only allowing 1 group per instance maybe cap it at certain amount of people depending on the size of the dungeon.
I do think there should be 2 kinds of dungeons, 1 being that there is an objective from say a story arch with a goal at the end which should be hard to obtain or at least challenging to the corresponding lvl of the quest line to the cave run with some type of decent reward upon completion. and then there should be yer generic cave filled with either faction mobs, and or resource/component farming mobs with no real goal in it except maybe a few extra hard roaming nameds wandering around that will drop a rare resource or component for something to craft.
The first type of dungeon would most likel;y be instanced upon taking the quest, and I have always been a fan of farming dungeons be open for everyone to fight over and be non instanced and contested.
playing eq2 and two worlds