Uh, no it's not. If one does believe in God and follows the idea of a God then "yes" that god is the one who dictates the rightness and wrongess of a situation based upon the teachings. Whether it's the Queran (sp?) or Bible, or what you you. The faith dictates right and wrong and it is up to the follower to try to live their life accordingly. If one doesn't believe in a God then they will most likely have adopted certain moral followings based upon some teachings when they were young, society, laws, or what have you.
I dont need to go mutch further then the "conventional cliche" to show it's not that way.
Quoting Hitler:
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator [...]"
You know who Hitler was... right?
This kind of behaviour could be seen in any age, in any country, any person, all the way back to the crusades or the inquisition.
But, i wont discuss more religion. From personal experience i know religious people hardly ever change ideas on their beliefs, no matter how mutch we can prove them wrong.
Also, who am i to say i know more then others?
You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.
Unless you think i said that religious people ARE immoral , i have no idea why you would say the above.
I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.
Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.
You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.
Unless you think i said that religious people ARE immoral , i have no idea why you would say the above.
I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.
Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.
Oh sorry I think I misunderstood you, I thought that you meant that ethics and religion weren't linked in anyway which I disagreed with. However I now seem to get what you're saying (that being religious doesn't effect whether someone does good things or bad things). I understand what you're saying, and though i do think that you get a mixture of people on either side, I do think that religion does seem to allow people to justify immoral things - this is probably why there is more religious people in prisons than in the average population.
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.
Unless you think i said that religious people ARE immoral , i have no idea why you would say the above.
I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.
Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.
Although i understand what you mean, the right/wrong thing IS a direct reflection of what you believe (religiously). It's in the doctrine that is tought to you evry sunday (or whichever day one goes to church).
You can be seriously chastised by the church and community if you don't follow what they say...because, and this is the kicker, right and wrong are totally subjective. THEY decide what's right or what's wrong, they decide what's good ro bad. Logic is thrown out the window in lieu of their boxed in views of how they should act.
But again, you're right about the general good/right, you may be religious and still have your own view on right and wrong. With all the different religions out there, you'd think there'd be more joy in the world...but alas, tolerance isn't a part of their teaching (not to those of different faith anyway).
I would also like to point out that if a religious person did something which people would generally see as immoral, it is often because of/motivated/justified by their religion. If an atheist does something immoral, it isn't because of his atheism that he did the immoral action.
Gath you may also want to look up Godwin's Law
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I would also like to point out that if a religious person did something which people would generally see as immoral, it is often because of/motivated/justified by their religion. If an atheist does something immoral, it isn't because of his atheism that he did the immoral action.
Gath you may also want to look up Godwin's Law "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Hihi, so true... that's why i stated it was cliche
I actually tryed to find on the net something about a "scandal" i read about involving preists, some time back, but i dont remember where i read it, and google gave nothing
hehe it's awesome and so true. I love the way that it's laid out like a law of physics or something on wiki.
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
What bothers me the most is that its becoming even evident in everyday real world situations for me. Being that I am transgendered (yet I haven't even transitioned to full time, let alone make myself look female...) I get the same sort of flack that I do online now in the offline real world. Granted, I am have a minority that a great majority either find strange or possibly 'dangerous'/etc/blah-biggotry-here, but even years ago when I attempted to transition no one tried to be as vulgar now back then. What made then (the past) more different than today? Perhaps, there is something different in the past that did make a greater difference in attitude of people, but I suspect it's more to do with the fact that these same people weren't commonly online nor had the gall while online (back then) to assert their true feelings and vulgar attitudes. In essence, the online sphere of life is becoming a 'breeding'/training ground for this vulgarity (potentially dangerous to my person being of a significantly small, but visible minority) for which there doesn't seem to be much of a mechanism to stem the progression of it offline as there is online (the old ban hammer doesn't extend to the real world beyond maybe a .44 Magnum pistol).
-- Brede
So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
People are losing their fear of mankind and so they no longer respect man. We have learned to fear violence to the point where we are afraid to use violence when it is required. The life lessons we learned in the school yard are no longer being taught. People are moving away from the morals of religon without adopting the morals that logic and reason provide.
It's really this, minus the last thing about religion. There used to be a time where if a guy talked crap to your mom in front of you, you could deck him and not be brought to charges. People need that fear that if you say something really offensive, you'll get a black eye for it.
nethervoid - Est. '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1 20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
What bothers me the most is that its becoming even evident in everyday real world situations for me. Being that I am transgendered (yet I haven't even transitioned to full time, let alone make myself look female...) I get the same sort of flack that I do online now in the offline real world. Granted, I am have a minority that a great majority either find strange or possibly 'dangerous'/etc/blah-biggotry-here, but even years ago when I attempted to transition no one tried to be as vulgar now back then. What made then (the past) more different than today? Perhaps, there is something different in the past that did make a greater difference in attitude of people, but I suspect it's more to do with the fact that these same people weren't commonly online nor had the gall while online (back then) to assert their true feelings and vulgar attitudes. In essence, the online sphere of life is becoming a 'breeding'/training ground for this vulgarity (potentially dangerous to my person being of a significantly small, but visible minority) for which there doesn't seem to be much of a mechanism to stem the progression of it offline as there is online (the old ban hammer doesn't extend to the real world beyond maybe a .44 Magnum pistol).
-- Brede
So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Briansho, I think you made a bit of a jump there. This post is about vulgarity on an MMO and Forums. This is a completely separate topic then the effect violence in games and music has on people. Big difference between content on a game and pre-recroded music vs real people in real time being "vulgar" to eachother.
I understand you have an opinion you want to express, but could you at least try to do it without attacking the person?
Peoples action online does have an effect on real life. Take something like online slang. Online slang is very common in the online community, especially MMO's. A friend of mine has been playing online games for about 5 years now and on occasion I catch him saying things like "woot" or "Lawl" irl. I have heard this kind of slang used by others in the outside world.
The point is consistent use of language online can lead to its ease of use irl. This applies to vulgarity as well.
Now I'm not saying the Vulgarity will turn others vulgar and I don't believe thats what the OP meant. Its that someone who is regularly vulgar online, past what they would normally do irl, could lead to that person to be more at ease being vulgar irl. Obviously this is just conjecture on my part.
Having said this I do not believe the Vulgarity in MMO's and forums is that much to worry about(in my experience it is possible to find a good community in any online game), but to completely dismiss it as a non issue is naive.
Its a fact that some form of "Vulgarity" namely hate speech can and does lead to real violence.
Have you seen the news report about the kid that was so teased through myspace by kids from his school / community that he killed himself?
What bothers me the most is that its becoming even evident in everyday real world situations for me. Being that I am transgendered (yet I haven't even transitioned to full time, let alone make myself look female...) I get the same sort of flack that I do online now in the offline real world. Granted, I am have a minority that a great majority either find strange or possibly 'dangerous'/etc/blah-biggotry-here, but even years ago when I attempted to transition no one tried to be as vulgar now back then. What made then (the past) more different than today? Perhaps, there is something different in the past that did make a greater difference in attitude of people, but I suspect it's more to do with the fact that these same people weren't commonly online nor had the gall while online (back then) to assert their true feelings and vulgar attitudes. In essence, the online sphere of life is becoming a 'breeding'/training ground for this vulgarity (potentially dangerous to my person being of a significantly small, but visible minority) for which there doesn't seem to be much of a mechanism to stem the progression of it offline as there is online (the old ban hammer doesn't extend to the real world beyond maybe a .44 Magnum pistol).
-- Brede
So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Briansho, I think you made a bit of a jump there. This post is about vulgarity on an MMO and Forums. This is a completely separate topic then the effect violence in games and music has on people. Big difference between content on a game and pre-recroded music vs real people in real time being "vulgar" to eachother.
I understand you have an opinion you want to express, but could you at least try to do it without attacking the person?
Peoples action online does have an effect on real life. Take something like online slang. Online slang is very common in the online community, especially MMO's. A friend of mine has been playing online games for about 5 years now and on occasion I catch him saying things like "woot" or "Lawl" irl. I have heard this kind of slang used by others in the outside world.
The point is consistent use of language online can lead to its ease of use irl. This applies to vulgarity as well.
Now I'm not saying the Vulgarity will turn others vulgar and I don't believe thats what the OP meant. Its that someone who is regularly vulgar online, past what they would normally do irl, could lead to that person to be more at ease being vulgar irl. Obviously this is just conjecture on my part.
Having said this I do not believe the Vulgarity in MMO's and forums is that much to worry about(in my experience it is possible to find a good community in any online game), but to completely dismiss it as a non issue is naive.
Its a fact that some form of "Vulgarity" namely hate speech can and does lead to real violence.
Have you seen the news report about the kid that was so teased through myspace by kids from his school / community that he killed himself?
I said what I said because of the tone of the post.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I'm going to assume that you're just talking about profanity in general. I can't really say how much this has risen in regards to gaming since widespread voice over IP technology didn't really take off until around fiver years ago or so. Before that, we had people who would type shit in the chat of certain FPS games, but they usually got shotgunned into giblets while typing out their insults.
As for the broader subject of profanity... I'll leave that in the hands of professional public speakers:
For those of you that don't want watch all of that, let me sum up in my own words. I can call someone a dick or I can call them a pretentious, pontificating, egocentric moron. The former example expresses the general feeling that I have for a person while the latter gets down to the specifics. Which would you rather be called?
BTW, there isn't a single thing that you come in contact with or experience that isn't defined or sorted by language. Those that wish to prohibit your speech, want to inhibit your ability to organize your very thoughts.
Originally posted by Sovrath Well first off, I'm sorry that you are having this experience. However, this is nothing new. It is my guess that you are pretty young and not very life experienced? Or perhaps come from a rather rural area to think that this is getting worse and worse? When you have lived longer you will realize it has always been this way. The internet just brings it to you faster.
Neither. I'm 27 and live in Wichita. Wichita may not be Atlanta or KC in size, but it is still a city (400k+ and rising despite the economic recession finally hitting us here). As for it always this way: it's partly true due to that humans are never born with a perfect knowledge of how to act, thus we have to experiment, sometimes such experimentation leads to bad ends. But my point is that fundamentally we're seeing an increase due to factors not largely due to the Internet, rather the Internet is the 'amplifier' of the inevitable trend toward savagery (due to other factors which I believe we're finally beginning to see...).
Originally posted by Briansho So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Did I assert as such or did I assert that the nature of the Internet made people vulgar? Vulgarity does not always lead to violence, but it often emboldens those who are always ready to crack someone's head for any old reason, especially if his/her audience is his 'friends' that egg him on.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe I'm going to assume that you're just talking about profanity in general. I can't really say how much this has risen in regards to gaming since widespread voice over IP technology didn't really take off until around fiver years ago or so. Before that, we had people who would type shit in the chat of certain FPS games, but they usually got shotgunned into giblets while typing out their insults. As for the broader subject of profanity... I'll leave that in the hands of professional public speakers: Profanity part 1 Profanity part 2 Profanity part 3 For those of you that don't want watch all of that, let me sum up in my own words. I can call someone a dick or I can call them a pretentious, pontificating, egocentric moron. The former example expresses the general feeling that I have for a person while the latter gets down to the specifics. Which would you rather be called? BTW, there isn't a single thing that you come in contact with or experience that isn't defined or sorted by language. Those that wish to prohibit your speech, want to inhibit your ability to organize your very thoughts.
Not at all, man. You're quite way off. Fart jokes, puns about genitals or the lack thereof, and the like are not my problem. My problem is the guy who goes and makes it his 'business' in regards to my personal life and threatens my person, especially in real life or even online. And that problem has hardly a thing to do with spouting off four lettered or greater words. Simply put, the truest vulgarity is the kind that winds up with someone trying to blunt your face. The rest is simple immature posturing.
I'm going to assume that you're just talking about profanity in general. I can't really say how much this has risen in regards to gaming since widespread voice over IP technology didn't really take off until around fiver years ago or so. Before that, we had people who would type shit in the chat of certain FPS games, but they usually got shotgunned into giblets while typing out their insults.
As for the broader subject of profanity... I'll leave that in the hands of professional public speakers:
For those of you that don't want watch all of that, let me sum up in my own words. I can call someone a dick or I can call them a pretentious, pontificating, egocentric moron. The former example expresses the general feeling that I have for a person while the latter gets down to the specifics. Which would you rather be called?
BTW, there isn't a single thing that you come in contact with or experience that isn't defined or sorted by language. Those that wish to prohibit your speech, want to inhibit your ability to organize your very thoughts.
Not at all, man. You're quite way off. Fart jokes, puns about genitals or the lack thereof, and the like are not my problem. My problem is the guy who goes and makes it his 'business' in regards to my personal life and threatens my person, especially in real life or even online. And that problem has hardly a thing to do with spouting off four lettered or greater words. Simply put, the truest vulgarity is the kind that winds up with someone trying to blunt your face. The rest is simple immature posturing.
-- Brede
Well then we're talking about two different things. And I don't think the internet had very much to do with what you're talking about. I think that the escalation in attitude has several contributing factors, the media only being one.
The media is a big part of it though. The public, as a unit, becomes immune to certain types of stimulation which causes advertisers, entertainers, news reporters, etc., to become more extreme and shocking in order to grab the publics attention. Oddly, there's been a kind of pushme-pullyou effect with the media. While news reporting has gone more negative and confrontational, movies and TV went through a long dry spell where genuine shocks were few and far between. Thus all the hub-bub surrounding gore flicks like Hostel and Saw.
The other contributing factor is just the sheer volume of people that are living in close proximity to one another. Urban areas have had steady population increases over the last 30 years or so, and that leads to a greater sense of detachment from the people directly around you. I also think that on an instinctive level, we know that the population is just to large and, deep inside, we are acting on the natural need to cull the herd so to speak.
I also think that this may be the back swing of a very long historical trend. During the middle ages, murder wasn't even considered a crime provided that a noble wasn't killed illegally. The murder rate is estimated to be much higher until sometime around 1650 or so. To give you an idea of how violent that time was, butter knives came into being because edged weapons had to be banned at the social functions of royalty. Any stray comment or insult would result in a blood bath if everyone was allowed to carry their dagger into a banquet. And yes, EVERYONE during that time period carried AT LEAST a dagger.
Then again, it may be the direct result of a society that refuses to punish children, expose them to the possibility of failure, or even allow them to experience even the mildest of injury (kids need helmets and pads just to take a leak nowadays). Social morals are the end product of thousands of years of both corporal and capital violence. Take negative re-enforcement away for a generation or two and you get a social regression. See Neitzsche's "On the Genealogy of Morality" for a better understanding of what I'm getting at.
I think the case is behind the computer, behind the console, behind the walls, people want to be not only something they arn't they want to speak their mind in a safe setting without them to have harm to themselves, in trouble, etc. I have had more white people call me a "ni**er" online than anything and I only had got my actual hands on one (long story). Some say it just to say it and others say it to try to piss you off, but they would never do that stuff on the street. Why? Afraid. Now a lot of people throw profanity around in MMO's but don't actually say the things they type in real life. I mean, it's not only by what I say, but I mean look at this topic. Whatever I would say is probabily has already been said about it.
So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Did I assert as such or did I assert that the nature of the Internet made people vulgar? Vulgarity does not always lead to violence, but it often emboldens those who are always ready to crack someone's head for any old reason, especially if his/her audience is his 'friends' that egg him on.
Project much?
-- Brede
Some people interpret things they read different than others.
Have you ever tried calling Loveline?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by Briansho Some people interpret things they read different than others.
People interpret foreign languages, unless english isn't your first language I don't expect the sort of response you presented, which is more or less an attempt to redefine what I stated. *shrugs*
Have you ever tried calling Loveline?
Is there a point in calling a pop-psychologist with a crappy comedian for a co-host?
People learn to relate to one another from family. Most kids don't have a mother and a father in the same household, and for many of those that do, the parents have abdicated their parental responsibilities to be friends with their children.
A lot of kids learn how to relate to others from their peers and from watching media, instead of from their parents.
I think socially we are in a state of decline. At my work I see extremely dysfunctional people having 4+ kids. Heroine addicts..prostitutes..alcholics...methamphetamine...criminals...they are all procreating and many of them with 3 or more different partners. The kids of these people have little chance at a decent life, and many will no doubt go on to spread the dysfunction to other generations. Meanwhile, most of my college educated friends have one child or maybe two...some have none.
Yeah, we are in a state of decline. Socially. Economically. Morally. Intellectually.
I didn't mean for my comment to become a debate about religion - I simply meant that as people move away from religion they are not seeking new moral codes that are found with logic and reason; they have abandoned morality in favor of one rule: What will society allow me to get away with?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Neither. I'm 27 and live in Wichita. Wichita may not be Atlanta or KC in size, but it is still a city (400k+ and rising despite the economic recession finally hitting us here).
The value of the dollar against the euro... ouch! Means Americans have lost about a quarter of their wealth. At least it means you get cheaper mmo subscriptions out there :P
wouldn't be surprised if the nature of the society is based a lot on the wealth of the country or area.
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
Comments
Quoting Hitler:
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator [...]"
You know who Hitler was... right?
This kind of behaviour could be seen in any age, in any country, any person, all the way back to the crusades or the inquisition.
But, i wont discuss more religion. From personal experience i know religious people hardly ever change ideas on their beliefs, no matter how mutch we can prove them wrong.
Also, who am i to say i know more then others?
You origionaly said that religion and morality had nothing to do with eachother, and with that quote you seem to imply that they do and are therefore contradicting yourself.
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.
Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.
_________________
Senhores da Guerra
I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.
Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.
Oh sorry I think I misunderstood you, I thought that you meant that ethics and religion weren't linked in anyway which I disagreed with. However I now seem to get what you're saying (that being religious doesn't effect whether someone does good things or bad things). I understand what you're saying, and though i do think that you get a mixture of people on either side, I do think that religion does seem to allow people to justify immoral things - this is probably why there is more religious people in prisons than in the average population.
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I trying to say that a person being religious (lets assume they all belive in God) has nothing to do with right/wrong. You will find bad people that are religious, and you will find atheist peope that only do good.
Good/Bad - Right/Wrong has nothing to do with religion.
Although i understand what you mean, the right/wrong thing IS a direct reflection of what you believe (religiously). It's in the doctrine that is tought to you evry sunday (or whichever day one goes to church).You can be seriously chastised by the church and community if you don't follow what they say...because, and this is the kicker, right and wrong are totally subjective. THEY decide what's right or what's wrong, they decide what's good ro bad. Logic is thrown out the window in lieu of their boxed in views of how they should act.
But again, you're right about the general good/right, you may be religious and still have your own view on right and wrong. With all the different religions out there, you'd think there'd be more joy in the world...but alas, tolerance isn't a part of their teaching (not to those of different faith anyway).
I would also like to point out that if a religious person did something which people would generally see as immoral, it is often because of/motivated/justified by their religion. If an atheist does something immoral, it isn't because of his atheism that he did the immoral action.
Gath you may also want to look up Godwin's Law
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I actually tryed to find on the net something about a "scandal" i read about involving preists, some time back, but i dont remember where i read it, and google gave nothing
_________________
Senhores da Guerra
hehe it's awesome and so true. I love the way that it's laid out like a law of physics or something on wiki.
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
It's really this, minus the last thing about religion. There used to be a time where if a guy talked crap to your mom in front of you, you could deck him and not be brought to charges. People need that fear that if you say something really offensive, you'll get a black eye for it.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Briansho, I think you made a bit of a jump there. This post is about vulgarity on an MMO and Forums. This is a completely separate topic then the effect violence in games and music has on people. Big difference between content on a game and pre-recroded music vs real people in real time being "vulgar" to eachother.
I understand you have an opinion you want to express, but could you at least try to do it without attacking the person?
Peoples action online does have an effect on real life. Take something like online slang. Online slang is very common in the online community, especially MMO's. A friend of mine has been playing online games for about 5 years now and on occasion I catch him saying things like "woot" or "Lawl" irl. I have heard this kind of slang used by others in the outside world.
The point is consistent use of language online can lead to its ease of use irl. This applies to vulgarity as well.
Now I'm not saying the Vulgarity will turn others vulgar and I don't believe thats what the OP meant. Its that someone who is regularly vulgar online, past what they would normally do irl, could lead to that person to be more at ease being vulgar irl. Obviously this is just conjecture on my part.
Having said this I do not believe the Vulgarity in MMO's and forums is that much to worry about(in my experience it is possible to find a good community in any online game), but to completely dismiss it as a non issue is naive.
Its a fact that some form of "Vulgarity" namely hate speech can and does lead to real violence.
Have you seen the news report about the kid that was so teased through myspace by kids from his school / community that he killed himself?
So games like Grand Theft Auto and music like Marilyn Manson are creating killers as well? It sounds like you have a lot of bottled up rage/emotion. Have you thought about seeking counseling?
Briansho, I think you made a bit of a jump there. This post is about vulgarity on an MMO and Forums. This is a completely separate topic then the effect violence in games and music has on people. Big difference between content on a game and pre-recroded music vs real people in real time being "vulgar" to eachother.
I understand you have an opinion you want to express, but could you at least try to do it without attacking the person?
Peoples action online does have an effect on real life. Take something like online slang. Online slang is very common in the online community, especially MMO's. A friend of mine has been playing online games for about 5 years now and on occasion I catch him saying things like "woot" or "Lawl" irl. I have heard this kind of slang used by others in the outside world.
The point is consistent use of language online can lead to its ease of use irl. This applies to vulgarity as well.
Now I'm not saying the Vulgarity will turn others vulgar and I don't believe thats what the OP meant. Its that someone who is regularly vulgar online, past what they would normally do irl, could lead to that person to be more at ease being vulgar irl. Obviously this is just conjecture on my part.
Having said this I do not believe the Vulgarity in MMO's and forums is that much to worry about(in my experience it is possible to find a good community in any online game), but to completely dismiss it as a non issue is naive.
Its a fact that some form of "Vulgarity" namely hate speech can and does lead to real violence.
Have you seen the news report about the kid that was so teased through myspace by kids from his school / community that he killed himself?
I said what I said because of the tone of the post.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I'm going to assume that you're just talking about profanity in general. I can't really say how much this has risen in regards to gaming since widespread voice over IP technology didn't really take off until around fiver years ago or so. Before that, we had people who would type shit in the chat of certain FPS games, but they usually got shotgunned into giblets while typing out their insults.
As for the broader subject of profanity... I'll leave that in the hands of professional public speakers:
Profanity part 1
Profanity part 2
Profanity part 3
For those of you that don't want watch all of that, let me sum up in my own words. I can call someone a dick or I can call them a pretentious, pontificating, egocentric moron. The former example expresses the general feeling that I have for a person while the latter gets down to the specifics. Which would you rather be called?
BTW, there isn't a single thing that you come in contact with or experience that isn't defined or sorted by language. Those that wish to prohibit your speech, want to inhibit your ability to organize your very thoughts.
-- Brede
Did I assert as such or did I assert that the nature of the Internet made people vulgar? Vulgarity does not always lead to violence, but it often emboldens those who are always ready to crack someone's head for any old reason, especially if his/her audience is his 'friends' that egg him on.
Project much?
-- Brede
Not at all, man. You're quite way off. Fart jokes, puns about genitals or the lack thereof, and the like are not my problem. My problem is the guy who goes and makes it his 'business' in regards to my personal life and threatens my person, especially in real life or even online. And that problem has hardly a thing to do with spouting off four lettered or greater words. Simply put, the truest vulgarity is the kind that winds up with someone trying to blunt your face. The rest is simple immature posturing.
-- Brede
Not at all, man. You're quite way off. Fart jokes, puns about genitals or the lack thereof, and the like are not my problem. My problem is the guy who goes and makes it his 'business' in regards to my personal life and threatens my person, especially in real life or even online. And that problem has hardly a thing to do with spouting off four lettered or greater words. Simply put, the truest vulgarity is the kind that winds up with someone trying to blunt your face. The rest is simple immature posturing.
-- Brede
Well then we're talking about two different things. And I don't think the internet had very much to do with what you're talking about. I think that the escalation in attitude has several contributing factors, the media only being one.
The media is a big part of it though. The public, as a unit, becomes immune to certain types of stimulation which causes advertisers, entertainers, news reporters, etc., to become more extreme and shocking in order to grab the publics attention. Oddly, there's been a kind of pushme-pullyou effect with the media. While news reporting has gone more negative and confrontational, movies and TV went through a long dry spell where genuine shocks were few and far between. Thus all the hub-bub surrounding gore flicks like Hostel and Saw.
The other contributing factor is just the sheer volume of people that are living in close proximity to one another. Urban areas have had steady population increases over the last 30 years or so, and that leads to a greater sense of detachment from the people directly around you. I also think that on an instinctive level, we know that the population is just to large and, deep inside, we are acting on the natural need to cull the herd so to speak.
I also think that this may be the back swing of a very long historical trend. During the middle ages, murder wasn't even considered a crime provided that a noble wasn't killed illegally. The murder rate is estimated to be much higher until sometime around 1650 or so. To give you an idea of how violent that time was, butter knives came into being because edged weapons had to be banned at the social functions of royalty. Any stray comment or insult would result in a blood bath if everyone was allowed to carry their dagger into a banquet. And yes, EVERYONE during that time period carried AT LEAST a dagger.
Then again, it may be the direct result of a society that refuses to punish children, expose them to the possibility of failure, or even allow them to experience even the mildest of injury (kids need helmets and pads just to take a leak nowadays). Social morals are the end product of thousands of years of both corporal and capital violence. Take negative re-enforcement away for a generation or two and you get a social regression. See Neitzsche's "On the Genealogy of Morality" for a better understanding of what I'm getting at.
I think the case is behind the computer, behind the console, behind the walls, people want to be not only something they arn't they want to speak their mind in a safe setting without them to have harm to themselves, in trouble, etc. I have had more white people call me a "ni**er" online than anything and I only had got my actual hands on one (long story). Some say it just to say it and others say it to try to piss you off, but they would never do that stuff on the street. Why? Afraid. Now a lot of people throw profanity around in MMO's but don't actually say the things they type in real life. I mean, it's not only by what I say, but I mean look at this topic. Whatever I would say is probabily has already been said about it.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
Did I assert as such or did I assert that the nature of the Internet made people vulgar? Vulgarity does not always lead to violence, but it often emboldens those who are always ready to crack someone's head for any old reason, especially if his/her audience is his 'friends' that egg him on.
Project much?
-- Brede
Some people interpret things they read different than others.
Have you ever tried calling Loveline?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Is there a point in calling a pop-psychologist with a crappy comedian for a co-host?
-- Brede
/lick Brede
People learn to relate to one another from family. Most kids don't have a mother and a father in the same household, and for many of those that do, the parents have abdicated their parental responsibilities to be friends with their children.
A lot of kids learn how to relate to others from their peers and from watching media, instead of from their parents.
I think socially we are in a state of decline. At my work I see extremely dysfunctional people having 4+ kids. Heroine addicts..prostitutes..alcholics...methamphetamine...criminals...they are all procreating and many of them with 3 or more different partners. The kids of these people have little chance at a decent life, and many will no doubt go on to spread the dysfunction to other generations. Meanwhile, most of my college educated friends have one child or maybe two...some have none.
Yeah, we are in a state of decline. Socially. Economically. Morally. Intellectually.
I didn't mean for my comment to become a debate about religion - I simply meant that as people move away from religion they are not seeking new moral codes that are found with logic and reason; they have abandoned morality in favor of one rule: What will society allow me to get away with?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
wouldn't be surprised if the nature of the society is based a lot on the wealth of the country or area.
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.