I've described to buddies and on the official forums how the Pre-NGE / Pre-CU SWG was in regards to gameplay, crafting, and the economy.
The veteran MMORPGers already were familiar with what the old SWG could do. Heck, it was done before
But the main point of interest were the newer MMO players, alot of whom had WoW as their first MMO (or WoW then went LotRO). I described in long detail how the skillpoint system worked, how you could come up with how your character plays, not some cookie-cutter class that dominates MMORPGs and even single-player console / PC RPGs.
The second point of interest was how crafting and the economy worked. I had many people shocked at the fact that the best gear was crafted in the Old SWG. Loot drops were there but rare (hello Pikeman!). Quest rewards were simply credits and / or Faction Points (if applicable). And players made the game economy move with their crafted items, transactions between combat players and crafters, etc. Alot of people were having trouble seeing how this was possible and how a game functioned without l337 loot drops and rewards
But it was being done, until a specific point in SWG's history.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The current MMO I play is LotRO. I've described to buddies and on the official forums how the Pre-NGE / Pre-CU SWG was in regards to gameplay, crafting, and the economy. The veteran MMORPGers already were familiar with what the old SWG could do. Heck, it was done before But the main point of interest were the newer MMO players, alot of whom had WoW as their first MMO (or WoW then went LotRO). I described in long detail how the skillpoint system worked, how you could come up with how your character plays, not some cookie-cutter class that dominates MMORPGs and even single-player console / PC RPGs. The second point of interest was how crafting and the economy worked. I had many people shocked at the fact that the best gear was crafted in the Old SWG. Loot drops were there but rare (hello Pikeman!). Quest rewards were simply credits and / or Faction Points (if applicable). And players made the game economy move with their crafted items, transactions between combat players and crafters, etc. Alot of people were having trouble seeing how this was possible and how a game functioned without l337 loot drops and rewards But it was being done, until a specific point in SWG's history.
My experience too, it happens i meet people in other MMO who don't was knowing about SWG. If i talk especially about the way of crafting and entertaining they can't believe something like that existed in MMO and whats harder to believe why it got destroyed..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Entertainers were an aspect of the old SWG that I always forget to mention in my posts there in LotRO (sorry!).
Players were surprised that some in SWG were completely, totally dedicated to crafting and the business aspect of the game with their MAIN character, sometimes their only character, without a single ounce of combat ability thrown in.
If they were surprised by that, I'm sure they'd hold me in disbelief if I told them that SWG had players do the same thing with Entertainers... instruments, dancing, etc., and the socializing. And not even try to lift a blaster for playing.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Originally posted by Warmaker Entertainers were an aspect of the old SWG that I always forget to mention in my posts there in LotRO (sorry!). Players were surprised that some in SWG were completely, totally dedicated to crafting and the business aspect of the game with their MAIN character, sometimes their only character, without a single ounce of combat ability thrown in. If they were surprised by that, I'm sure they'd hold me in disbelief if I told them that SWG had players do the same thing with Entertainers... instruments, dancing, etc., and the socializing. And not even try to lift a blaster for playing.
and then there were just as many who hybridized -- who specialized in one aspect of entertaining like dancing, and mastered one combat skill like Teras Kasi.
Such characters couldn't really compete one-on-one as duelists in PvP, but could enjoy large scale PvP with everyone, and do much of the PvE content, with the right buffs. They could gather resources for crafters, fight against the opposite faction for points, and otherwise enjoy a game not to be found anywhere -- a game where you could be anything in a great big world, where YOUR desire dictated your gameplay, not some copycat game designer.
It really makes you wonder where would SWG be if it got the polish it deserved instead of being imploded.
It had the IP / Star Wars name, and that name is the sole reason why the NGE SWG hasn't died yet.
It would have an Old School MMO gameplay that almost no other MMO has: The Skillpoint / Template System.
It would have one of the deepest crafting / resource systems that I've seen in an MMO.
It would have JTL to bring space into SWG.
All potential down the drain.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Originally posted by Warmaker It really makes you wonder where would SWG be if it got the polish it deserved instead of being imploded. It had the IP / Star Wars name, and that name is the sole reason why the NGE SWG hasn't died yet. It would have an Old School MMO gameplay that almost no other MMO has: The Skillpoint / Template System. It would have one of the deepest crafting / resource systems that I've seen in an MMO. It would have JTL to bring space into SWG. All potential down the drain.
I am extremely certain that had they just managed the game properly, and had put the effort and budget into fixing what was broken, adding content and events regularly, and generally managed the asset properly, SWG would have been the first MMO to break one million subscribers.
The fact is, Smedley blew the management of his gold mine from day one, and when the time came for an assessment, he attempted the shift blame first to koster, claiming the complicated design made the game too difficult to balance. This led first to the CU. Then when that didn't work he blamed the competition, WoW, since that was another convenient excuse.
Then, when copying WoW, which was done, as they did/do everything, in a shabby way and on the cheap, he found his last refuge in blaming the customers. That is where they are now.
A mix of chronic mismanagement and blameshifting under the CYA principle led to taking the game with the greatest potential in the history of MMOs into the greatest disaster in online gaming. Very sad, but pretty easy to see in retrospect.
It really makes you wonder where would SWG be if it got the polish it deserved instead of being imploded.
It had the IP / Star Wars name, and that name is the sole reason why the NGE SWG hasn't died yet.
It would have an Old School MMO gameplay that almost no other MMO has: The Skillpoint / Template System.
It would have one of the deepest crafting / resource systems that I've seen in an MMO.
It would have JTL to bring space into SWG.
All potential down the drain.
I am extremely certain that had they just managed the game properly, and had put the effort and budget into fixing what was broken, adding content and events regularly, and generally managed the asset properly, SWG would have been the first MMO to break one million subscribers.
The fact is, Smedley blew the management of his gold mine from day one, and when the time came for an assessment, he attempted the shift blame first to koster, claiming the complicated design made the game too difficult to balance. This led first to the CU. Then when that didn't work he blamed the competition, WoW, since that was another convenient excuse.
Then, when copying WoW, which was done, as they did/do everything, in a shabby way and on the cheap, he found his last refuge in blaming the customers. That is where they are now.
A mix of chronic mismanagement and blameshifting under the CYA principle led to taking the game with the greatest potential in the history of MMOs into the greatest disaster in online gaming. Very sad, but pretty easy to see in retrospect.
I liked it when Raph said that looking back at SWG he should of had more content and completed the design tools before release. SWG was released way to early and was released incomplete. But the amount of freedom of the game and the skill system was amazing. I do miss it very much. Yavin And Endor are still my favorite planets from a graphics point of view. So yes I think they were ahead of their time but also miscalculated the performance of the SWG engine and should of not released with so many bugs. I wish space, mounts, player cities, and vehicles would have been ready for release. I doubt that the NGE would of happened. Which is still a broken mess.
Pre-CU really was amazing. The problem was the game had many problems/things not completed when it was released.
Think how good it would have been today if they had just fixed those problems instead of scrapping the old girl.
I loved the skills, I loved the little tips of the hat to Star Wars Lore. The crafting aspect was AMAZING.
Combat needed some work. Contrary to what others suggest, I think balance was a PROBLEM, I was often in a group of 3-4 who would have Krayt kill stolen by a Powered Rifleman/Doctor.
Buffs were terrible (lol of course they are worse now)
I hated the "legendary" loot drops that gave ridiculous damage to mind poison etc.
I read a google scholar paper where a guy did his whole economics final paper on the economy of SWG--- and it was great...
Blizzard may have killed the sandbox forever, but it is not their fault. Oh how I wish patience would have won out over greed in a) pushing the game out early and b) in "fixing" the game by scrapping the game to make it more WOW-esque.
Were they ahead of their time? YES
The problem is it might be many many many years before you see another one like it with the same promotion efforts.
I'm shocked no one yet has copied the entire resource/crafting system of SWG. That IMO has been one of the really outstanding aspects of SWG.
Amen to this. I started out as a weaponsmith oh so long ago. I had so much fun setting up that business and then working to maintain/advertise and watching it grow. I think this is the one thing from SWG that was the most original and best implemented ideas.
Originally posted by HastorHadron Pre-CU really was amazing. The problem was the game had many problems/things not completed when it was released. Think how good it would have been today if they had just fixed those problems instead of scrapping the old girl.
I loved the skills, I loved the little tips of the hat to Star Wars Lore. The crafting aspect was AMAZING. Combat needed some work. Contrary to what others suggest, I think balance was a PROBLEM, I was often in a group of 3-4 who would have Krayt kill stolen by a Powered Rifleman/Doctor. Buffs were terrible (lol of course they are worse now) I hated the "legendary" loot drops that gave ridiculous damage to mind poison etc. I read a google scholar paper where a guy did his whole economics final paper on the economy of SWG--- and it was great... Blizzard may have killed the sandbox forever, but it is not their fault. Oh how I wish patience would have won out over greed in a) pushing the game out early and b) in "fixing" the game by scrapping the game to make it more WOW-esque. Were they ahead of their time? YES The problem is it might be many many many years before you see another one like it with the same promotion efforts.
Once again I have to mention here that there is another myth people have bought into. A subtle distinction must be made. The game was NOT "pushed out too early."
It was LATE, very late, Smedley having blown two deadlines in getting the game ready. He did not commit the resources necessary to finish the project on time, and as such, the game was never made ready.
saying the game was released TOO EARLY shifts blame a bit away from the man who broke his promises and, once again, tried to get away with doing things on the cheap, in the sloppy way he seems to do everything.
The game was released TOO LATE, and it still was an unfinished project. Once more a catastrophic failure of management.
I still remember those SWG gaming mag and online site reviews back in Summer of 2003. They ripped it apart due to the bugs and lack of content. As far as content or a game aspect that everyone crucified SWG for: No space flight or combat in a Star Wars game!
I bought the Collector's Edition on release but my computer couldn't run it at all with any sort of decency. It was a slideshow, so I had to stop playing. I missed out on the experience of "being there" for the start of an MMO. I still recall a player Rodian coming up to me and greeting me, but I couldn't reply in time before my computer had a heart attack and stopped
I had a new rig in the beginning of 2004 and that's when I went full speed into SWG. Speeders were relatively new since they weren't there in the beginning of SWG (from what I was told). I didn't do any corpse runs since it wasn't there anymore. Space wasn't there, since JTL was almost a year away. But I still had tremendous fun exploring the numerous, different worlds, learning the Skillpoint / Template system (and loving it), and all that, despite the lack of content and space.
Random memorable experience: Standing around, waiting at Bestine's Starport. My newbie ass was there next to someone. He had a Spraystick equipped, and I thought it was a damn lightsaber. I sent a /tell to him, "Is that a lightsaber? Are you a Jedi?"
He probably thought: "LOL! Stupid noob!"
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Pre-CU really was amazing. The problem was the game had many problems/things not completed when it was released.
Think how good it would have been today if they had just fixed those problems instead of scrapping the old girl.
I loved the skills, I loved the little tips of the hat to Star Wars Lore. The crafting aspect was AMAZING.
Combat needed some work. Contrary to what others suggest, I think balance was a PROBLEM, I was often in a group of 3-4 who would have Krayt kill stolen by a Powered Rifleman/Doctor.
Buffs were terrible (lol of course they are worse now)
I hated the "legendary" loot drops that gave ridiculous damage to mind poison etc.
I read a google scholar paper where a guy did his whole economics final paper on the economy of SWG--- and it was great...
Blizzard may have killed the sandbox forever, but it is not their fault. Oh how I wish patience would have won out over greed in a) pushing the game out early and b) in "fixing" the game by scrapping the game to make it more WOW-esque.
Were they ahead of their time? YES
The problem is it might be many many many years before you see another one like it with the same promotion efforts.
Once again I have to mention here that there is another myth people have bought into. A subtle distinction must be made. The game was NOT "pushed out too early."
It was LATE, very late, Smedley having blown two deadlines in getting the game ready. He did not commit the resources necessary to finish the project on time, and as such, the game was never made ready.
saying the game was released TOO EARLY shifts blame a bit away from the man who broke his promises and, once again, tried to get away with doing things on the cheap, in the sloppy way he seems to do everything.
The game was released TOO LATE, and it still was an unfinished project. Once more a catastrophic failure of management.
Good point, how about saying the game was not ready at release?
It had the worst of a lot of stuff too, in some regards it was complete and utter shit. I'd like to see what Raph could do now with lots of backing and a big IP but I don't think that's ever going to happen.
Like?
Seriously...
lmao are you kidding?
Take off those rose tinted specs and think back, it's not hard.
No one is going to say that the pre-CU SWG was perfect. In fact it did have several problems. To me the most apparent was the lag that was in high population areas. Much of that was caused from my point of view from a old, out dated PC. But the very fact that I could play SWG on such an old system was in itself a trubute. The thing that set pre-CU was its flexable and customizable game play. It was hard to find two players with the same character template at the same time. Even after you completed your current template, you could clear it all out and start over with a completely different one. In essence one could make a new character class to play. Then there was the crafting and player controled economy. It was a elegent and sophisticated system that I think few have been able to copy must less improve on. Add to that a helpful, mature and productive player base.
The main problem was most likely that SWG was rushed out before it was a polished, completed product. A lesson that Turbine picked up on with their LOTRO MMO. Those problems could have been easily fixed with the income that SWG was generating and staff that was available. SWG biggest weakness was not in the game itself but in those who controlled the purse strings. The growing number of subscibers and the income generated by WOW caused those in either SOE or LA (or both) to want to get a piece of WOW's action. Rather than taking the slow and steady course of fixing the known bugs and adding on quality content, they decided on the quick and easy path of destroying the framework of an innovative game system and replacing it with the "iconic" CU then the knuckle dragging NGE. In essence they fixed the flawed and cracked china teapot with a sledgehammer. The result was the exact opposite of what was intended. Subscribers left in droves, few new subscribers signed up and the amount of income nose-dived. SWG is now an industry example of what NOT to do with an MMO. The potential of SWG was never realized, and will never be known for sure. It's a same too....it would have been glooorious!!
Originally posted by HastorHadron Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by HastorHadron Pre-CU really was amazing. The problem was the game had many problems/things not completed when it was released. Think how good it would have been today if they had just fixed those problems instead of scrapping the old girl.
I loved the skills, I loved the little tips of the hat to Star Wars Lore. The crafting aspect was AMAZING. Combat needed some work. Contrary to what others suggest, I think balance was a PROBLEM, I was often in a group of 3-4 who would have Krayt kill stolen by a Powered Rifleman/Doctor. Buffs were terrible (lol of course they are worse now) I hated the "legendary" loot drops that gave ridiculous damage to mind poison etc. I read a google scholar paper where a guy did his whole economics final paper on the economy of SWG--- and it was great... Blizzard may have killed the sandbox forever, but it is not their fault. Oh how I wish patience would have won out over greed in a) pushing the game out early and b) in "fixing" the game by scrapping the game to make it more WOW-esque. Were they ahead of their time? YES The problem is it might be many many many years before you see another one like it with the same promotion efforts.
Once again I have to mention here that there is another myth people have bought into. A subtle distinction must be made. The game was NOT "pushed out too early."
It was LATE, very late, Smedley having blown two deadlines in getting the game ready. He did not commit the resources necessary to finish the project on time, and as such, the game was never made ready. saying the game was released TOO EARLY shifts blame a bit away from the man who broke his promises and, once again, tried to get away with doing things on the cheap, in the sloppy way he seems to do everything. The game was released TOO LATE, and it still was an unfinished project. Once more a catastrophic failure of management. Good point, how about saying the game was not ready at release? Yup, that's much better. It's like a kid whose paper is two weeks late, then when he hands it in, it's only halfway done.
It had the worst of a lot of stuff too, in some regards it was complete and utter shit. I'd like to see what Raph could do now with lots of backing and a big IP but I don't think that's ever going to happen.
Like?
Seriously...
lmao are you kidding?
Take off those rose tinted specs and think back, it's not hard.
No I'm not kidding, it was your statement...
I don't think SWG had the WORST of anything...
It had bugs, it had problems, but that was part of it being SWG... I loved the sandbox, the UNbalanced professions... people who wanted to power level could... people who wanted to kill worrts and loot hide could, people who wanted to make weapons could, people who wanted to just Rez people at the graveyard could, people who wanted to Buff at Theed, could...
It was about a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game in which you were immersed and living out a life as ana vatar in a generated game world, where you could live a life you chose... your actions, crafting, and decisions had effects and outcomes on the game world... the whole point was to LIVE in a star wars universe as you saw fit...
MMO's these days seem to be about leveling, grinding, questing, looting, raiding and MAXXING out your character...
When can we go back to logging into a world and just sitting at a ranger camp shooting the breeze and living there and doing what we wanted... soon I hope... SWGe**.com
Wow to be honest with you, I couldn't put that into better words. I miss the immerse world of SWG. I played on Shadowfire and it had a great roleplaying environment. WOW did at the beginning but it fisseled out. Even today, I think of when I first started SWG, compared to WOW and they had everything you could ask for in an MMO. Ya its a lot more difficult with the class system, it took me a long time to figure that out. They also got more then just "combat/healer" professions. The Musician/and dancer class really helped set not only a good buffing class, but a reason for socializing. I loved being a dancer it was the most fun ive ever had in an MMO. I wish more MMO's would involve more of a social atmosphere then simply end gear and a grind fest to be the best fighter there is. That's not everbody's goal.
BTW, bonfires at a campground were the BEST! Late night parties near Theed Also the fact that you could visit all the planets. Very fun. Played SWG up until the expansion, then they just ruined it for me.
[size=8]PLAYED: TSO, SWG, WOW, EQ2, Vanguard, FFXII, AOC, AION, Guild Wars, Second Life
It had something for everyone, it had options. The guild chat was so diverse with people chating about everything ranging from the billion different combinations of character setups to how the city should look to general screwing off in the cantina. Wrapped around this was a true free market economy and a seriously cool crafting system.
Now I play in the post WoW era and the focus is always...Quest, Loot, Raid...Ninja looters...Levels..some minor varient of the 8 classes someone tried..PvP in a box..
Its now like those 'choose your own adventure' books that we read as teenagers where you read a page and at the end were 2 options...Go to page 12 if you kill the troll..Go to page 14 if you feed the troll.
Yea...Ralph was before his time, but his time seems to be now. Enjoyed the vision of the future though.
Raph and his team were very ahead of their time. In my opinion SWG Pre-CU (even Pre-NGE) was the best MMO that has ever been developed. No game even comes close to the experience that was SWG. In the old days of SWG I actually felt like I was living, breathing, and eating Star Wars.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Regarding the lack of "things to do", I felt like the Galactic Civil War chapters were compelling enough to get the ball rolling in the right direction. It added the foundation of the game's timeframe and storyline for the community to participate in. I thought it was so immersive to have sliced weapons and spice on hand to meet up with a hunting group on Dathomir, and having to hide the illegal goods in my droids... sweating bullets that one of the Stormtroopers was going to bust me along the way for the infraction. Nothing I've tried has had anywhere near that level of immersion.
Raph and his team were very ahead of their time. In my opinion SWG Pre-CU (even Pre-NGE) was the best MMO that has ever been developed. No game even comes close to the experience that was SWG. In the old days of SWG I actually felt like I was living, breathing, and eating Star Wars.
Why hasnt/didnt SWG get the mythical WOW sub numbers?
This isnt a troll post either but c'mon lets have a little discussion on why if as you all claim koster and co where so far ahead of the game did the game go tits up?
And lets not have an SOE bashing here,we all know what they're like so i ask again why didnt the game hit the number it should have? (and i'll say it again it should still be the number 1 MMO on the market even now)
I have read the posts and to miss SWG to answer the last poster to this list. Its more of you have to be in to star Wars and such and some people didn't like that game thats normal we all like that. On the number of people playing i agree there should of been more.
I have read the posts and to miss SWG to answer the last poster to this list. Its more of you have to be in to star Wars and such and some people didn't like that game thats normal we all like that. On the number of people playing i agree there should of been more.
I played the old girl far too much back in the day (as most people here did ) but there must have been something in the game that did'nt attract the "mainstream" of gamers that flooded into the genre with the coming of WOW.
And thats really what i'm asking..why didnt the game live up to its expectations?
Comments
The current MMO I play is LotRO.
I've described to buddies and on the official forums how the Pre-NGE / Pre-CU SWG was in regards to gameplay, crafting, and the economy.
The veteran MMORPGers already were familiar with what the old SWG could do. Heck, it was done before
But the main point of interest were the newer MMO players, alot of whom had WoW as their first MMO (or WoW then went LotRO). I described in long detail how the skillpoint system worked, how you could come up with how your character plays, not some cookie-cutter class that dominates MMORPGs and even single-player console / PC RPGs.
The second point of interest was how crafting and the economy worked. I had many people shocked at the fact that the best gear was crafted in the Old SWG. Loot drops were there but rare (hello Pikeman!). Quest rewards were simply credits and / or Faction Points (if applicable). And players made the game economy move with their crafted items, transactions between combat players and crafters, etc. Alot of people were having trouble seeing how this was possible and how a game functioned without l337 loot drops and rewards
But it was being done, until a specific point in SWG's history.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
My experience too, it happens i meet people in other MMO who don't was knowing about SWG. If i talk especially about the way of crafting and entertaining they can't believe something like that existed in MMO and whats harder to believe why it got destroyed..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Entertainers were an aspect of the old SWG that I always forget to mention in my posts there in LotRO (sorry!).
Players were surprised that some in SWG were completely, totally dedicated to crafting and the business aspect of the game with their MAIN character, sometimes their only character, without a single ounce of combat ability thrown in.
If they were surprised by that, I'm sure they'd hold me in disbelief if I told them that SWG had players do the same thing with Entertainers... instruments, dancing, etc., and the socializing. And not even try to lift a blaster for playing.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
and then there were just as many who hybridized -- who specialized in one aspect of entertaining like dancing, and mastered one combat skill like Teras Kasi.
Such characters couldn't really compete one-on-one as duelists in PvP, but could enjoy large scale PvP with everyone, and do much of the PvE content, with the right buffs. They could gather resources for crafters, fight against the opposite faction for points, and otherwise enjoy a game not to be found anywhere -- a game where you could be anything in a great big world, where YOUR desire dictated your gameplay, not some copycat game designer.
fishermage.blogspot.com
It really makes you wonder where would SWG be if it got the polish it deserved instead of being imploded.
It had the IP / Star Wars name, and that name is the sole reason why the NGE SWG hasn't died yet.
It would have an Old School MMO gameplay that almost no other MMO has: The Skillpoint / Template System.
It would have one of the deepest crafting / resource systems that I've seen in an MMO.
It would have JTL to bring space into SWG.
All potential down the drain.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The fact is, Smedley blew the management of his gold mine from day one, and when the time came for an assessment, he attempted the shift blame first to koster, claiming the complicated design made the game too difficult to balance. This led first to the CU. Then when that didn't work he blamed the competition, WoW, since that was another convenient excuse.
Then, when copying WoW, which was done, as they did/do everything, in a shabby way and on the cheap, he found his last refuge in blaming the customers. That is where they are now.
A mix of chronic mismanagement and blameshifting under the CYA principle led to taking the game with the greatest potential in the history of MMOs into the greatest disaster in online gaming. Very sad, but pretty easy to see in retrospect.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The fact is, Smedley blew the management of his gold mine from day one, and when the time came for an assessment, he attempted the shift blame first to koster, claiming the complicated design made the game too difficult to balance. This led first to the CU. Then when that didn't work he blamed the competition, WoW, since that was another convenient excuse.
Then, when copying WoW, which was done, as they did/do everything, in a shabby way and on the cheap, he found his last refuge in blaming the customers. That is where they are now.
A mix of chronic mismanagement and blameshifting under the CYA principle led to taking the game with the greatest potential in the history of MMOs into the greatest disaster in online gaming. Very sad, but pretty easy to see in retrospect.
An excellent summary in my opinion.
I liked it when Raph said that looking back at SWG he should of had more content and completed the design tools before release. SWG was released way to early and was released incomplete. But the amount of freedom of the game and the skill system was amazing. I do miss it very much. Yavin And Endor are still my favorite planets from a graphics point of view. So yes I think they were ahead of their time but also miscalculated the performance of the SWG engine and should of not released with so many bugs. I wish space, mounts, player cities, and vehicles would have been ready for release. I doubt that the NGE would of happened. Which is still a broken mess.
Pre-CU really was amazing. The problem was the game had many problems/things not completed when it was released.
Think how good it would have been today if they had just fixed those problems instead of scrapping the old girl.
I loved the skills, I loved the little tips of the hat to Star Wars Lore. The crafting aspect was AMAZING.
Combat needed some work. Contrary to what others suggest, I think balance was a PROBLEM, I was often in a group of 3-4 who would have Krayt kill stolen by a Powered Rifleman/Doctor.
Buffs were terrible (lol of course they are worse now)
I hated the "legendary" loot drops that gave ridiculous damage to mind poison etc.
I read a google scholar paper where a guy did his whole economics final paper on the economy of SWG--- and it was great...
Blizzard may have killed the sandbox forever, but it is not their fault. Oh how I wish patience would have won out over greed in a) pushing the game out early and b) in "fixing" the game by scrapping the game to make it more WOW-esque.
Were they ahead of their time? YES
The problem is it might be many many many years before you see another one like it with the same promotion efforts.
Amen to this. I started out as a weaponsmith oh so long ago. I had so much fun setting up that business and then working to maintain/advertise and watching it grow. I think this is the one thing from SWG that was the most original and best implemented ideas.
It was LATE, very late, Smedley having blown two deadlines in getting the game ready. He did not commit the resources necessary to finish the project on time, and as such, the game was never made ready.
saying the game was released TOO EARLY shifts blame a bit away from the man who broke his promises and, once again, tried to get away with doing things on the cheap, in the sloppy way he seems to do everything.
The game was released TOO LATE, and it still was an unfinished project. Once more a catastrophic failure of management.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I still remember those SWG gaming mag and online site reviews back in Summer of 2003. They ripped it apart due to the bugs and lack of content. As far as content or a game aspect that everyone crucified SWG for: No space flight or combat in a Star Wars game!
I bought the Collector's Edition on release but my computer couldn't run it at all with any sort of decency. It was a slideshow, so I had to stop playing. I missed out on the experience of "being there" for the start of an MMO. I still recall a player Rodian coming up to me and greeting me, but I couldn't reply in time before my computer had a heart attack and stopped
I had a new rig in the beginning of 2004 and that's when I went full speed into SWG. Speeders were relatively new since they weren't there in the beginning of SWG (from what I was told). I didn't do any corpse runs since it wasn't there anymore. Space wasn't there, since JTL was almost a year away. But I still had tremendous fun exploring the numerous, different worlds, learning the Skillpoint / Template system (and loving it), and all that, despite the lack of content and space.
Random memorable experience: Standing around, waiting at Bestine's Starport. My newbie ass was there next to someone. He had a Spraystick equipped, and I thought it was a damn lightsaber. I sent a /tell to him, "Is that a lightsaber? Are you a Jedi?"
He probably thought: "LOL! Stupid noob!"
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
It was LATE, very late, Smedley having blown two deadlines in getting the game ready. He did not commit the resources necessary to finish the project on time, and as such, the game was never made ready.
saying the game was released TOO EARLY shifts blame a bit away from the man who broke his promises and, once again, tried to get away with doing things on the cheap, in the sloppy way he seems to do everything.
The game was released TOO LATE, and it still was an unfinished project. Once more a catastrophic failure of management.
Good point, how about saying the game was not ready at release?
Like?Seriously...
lmao are you kidding?
Take off those rose tinted specs and think back, it's not hard.
No one is going to say that the pre-CU SWG was perfect. In fact it did have several problems. To me the most apparent was the lag that was in high population areas. Much of that was caused from my point of view from a old, out dated PC. But the very fact that I could play SWG on such an old system was in itself a trubute. The thing that set pre-CU was its flexable and customizable game play. It was hard to find two players with the same character template at the same time. Even after you completed your current template, you could clear it all out and start over with a completely different one. In essence one could make a new character class to play. Then there was the crafting and player controled economy. It was a elegent and sophisticated system that I think few have been able to copy must less improve on. Add to that a helpful, mature and productive player base.
The main problem was most likely that SWG was rushed out before it was a polished, completed product. A lesson that Turbine picked up on with their LOTRO MMO. Those problems could have been easily fixed with the income that SWG was generating and staff that was available. SWG biggest weakness was not in the game itself but in those who controlled the purse strings. The growing number of subscibers and the income generated by WOW caused those in either SOE or LA (or both) to want to get a piece of WOW's action. Rather than taking the slow and steady course of fixing the known bugs and adding on quality content, they decided on the quick and easy path of destroying the framework of an innovative game system and replacing it with the "iconic" CU then the knuckle dragging NGE. In essence they fixed the flawed and cracked china teapot with a sledgehammer. The result was the exact opposite of what was intended. Subscribers left in droves, few new subscribers signed up and the amount of income nose-dived. SWG is now an industry example of what NOT to do with an MMO. The potential of SWG was never realized, and will never be known for sure. It's a same too....it would have been glooorious!!
It was LATE, very late, Smedley having blown two deadlines in getting the game ready. He did not commit the resources necessary to finish the project on time, and as such, the game was never made ready.
saying the game was released TOO EARLY shifts blame a bit away from the man who broke his promises and, once again, tried to get away with doing things on the cheap, in the sloppy way he seems to do everything.
The game was released TOO LATE, and it still was an unfinished project. Once more a catastrophic failure of management.
Good point, how about saying the game was not ready at release?
Yup, that's much better. It's like a kid whose paper is two weeks late, then when he hands it in, it's only halfway done.
The paper's still late, it's also not ready.
I just refuse to cover for Smedley in any manner.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I could rebuild SWG- release a classic server.
I fully support the idea of a classic server, but even then I think we will never see the full potential of the game.
Like?Seriously...
lmao are you kidding?
Take off those rose tinted specs and think back, it's not hard.
No I'm not kidding, it was your statement...
I don't think SWG had the WORST of anything...
It had bugs, it had problems, but that was part of it being SWG... I loved the sandbox, the UNbalanced professions... people who wanted to power level could... people who wanted to kill worrts and loot hide could, people who wanted to make weapons could, people who wanted to just Rez people at the graveyard could, people who wanted to Buff at Theed, could...
It was about a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game in which you were immersed and living out a life as ana vatar in a generated game world, where you could live a life you chose... your actions, crafting, and decisions had effects and outcomes on the game world... the whole point was to LIVE in a star wars universe as you saw fit...
MMO's these days seem to be about leveling, grinding, questing, looting, raiding and MAXXING out your character...
When can we go back to logging into a world and just sitting at a ranger camp shooting the breeze and living there and doing what we wanted... soon I hope... SWGe**.com
Wow to be honest with you, I couldn't put that into better words. I miss the immerse world of SWG. I played on Shadowfire and it had a great roleplaying environment. WOW did at the beginning but it fisseled out. Even today, I think of when I first started SWG, compared to WOW and they had everything you could ask for in an MMO. Ya its a lot more difficult with the class system, it took me a long time to figure that out. They also got more then just "combat/healer" professions. The Musician/and dancer class really helped set not only a good buffing class, but a reason for socializing. I loved being a dancer it was the most fun ive ever had in an MMO. I wish more MMO's would involve more of a social atmosphere then simply end gear and a grind fest to be the best fighter there is. That's not everbody's goal.
BTW, bonfires at a campground were the BEST! Late night parties near Theed
Also the fact that you could visit all the planets. Very fun. Played SWG up until the expansion, then they just ruined it for me.
[size=8]PLAYED: TSO, SWG, WOW, EQ2, Vanguard, FFXII, AOC, AION, Guild Wars, Second Life
Waiting: SWTOR, FFXIV
God I miss old SWG
...
It had something for everyone, it had options. The guild chat was so diverse with people chating about everything ranging from the billion different combinations of character setups to how the city should look to general screwing off in the cantina. Wrapped around this was a true free market economy and a seriously cool crafting system.
Now I play in the post WoW era and the focus is always...Quest, Loot, Raid...Ninja looters...Levels..some minor varient of the 8 classes someone tried..PvP in a box..
Its now like those 'choose your own adventure' books that we read as teenagers where you read a page and at the end were 2 options...Go to page 12 if you kill the troll..Go to page 14 if you feed the troll.
Yea...Ralph was before his time, but his time seems to be now. Enjoyed the vision of the future though.
Raph and his team were very ahead of their time. In my opinion SWG Pre-CU (even Pre-NGE) was the best MMO that has ever been developed. No game even comes close to the experience that was SWG. In the old days of SWG I actually felt like I was living, breathing, and eating Star Wars.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Regarding the lack of "things to do", I felt like the Galactic Civil War chapters were compelling enough to get the ball rolling in the right direction. It added the foundation of the game's timeframe and storyline for the community to participate in. I thought it was so immersive to have sliced weapons and spice on hand to meet up with a hunting group on Dathomir, and having to hide the illegal goods in my droids... sweating bullets that one of the Stormtroopers was going to bust me along the way for the infraction. Nothing I've tried has had anywhere near that level of immersion.
^ True Story
In the interest of balance i ask this
Why hasnt/didnt SWG get the mythical WOW sub numbers?
This isnt a troll post either but c'mon lets have a little discussion on why if as you all claim koster and co where so far ahead of the game did the game go tits up?
And lets not have an SOE bashing here,we all know what they're like so i ask again why didnt the game hit the number it should have? (and i'll say it again it should still be the number 1 MMO on the market even now)
I have read the posts and to miss SWG to answer the last poster to this list. Its more of you have to be in to star Wars and such and some people didn't like that game thats normal we all like that. On the number of people playing i agree there should of been more.
And thats really what i'm asking..why didnt the game live up to its expectations?