1. In any mmorpg you are not forced to level, you can soley be a crafter if you want but why would anybody want to do that? Yay lets play a game where all we do is make things! Both my aging father and my wife would disagree. Even I would, if the crafting and gathering were placed in a fun way. I actually became obsessively involved in Harvest Moon games for a moment...and all those are can be summed up with "crafting games". My father plays Perfect World right now...and most days actually does little more than fly around harvesting lumber and ore and herbs for the sake of building more armor and weapons. Some people REALLY enjoy crafting...they like creating their own personalized piece of the game world. 2. Houses appearing in the world is a nice feature but an uneccessary one that causes a lot of problems. The only reason it was okay in SWG was because that game had tons of empty areas with no monsters and just a barren nothingness. Housing is more than just a nice feature. Its hands off content. Seriously...if you could add 80-100 hours of game play to a person by doing little more than adding a few models to a game, wouldn't you do it? Adding content which decorates houses takes far less time than raiding to develop...and many people WILL spend that time to get it. Look at Animal Crossing...a whole game devoted to nothing BUT decorating a house. Smash success! I, myself, spent easily half a year playing that game...and ALL I did was farm for new furniture. Think about how that applies to housing in an MMO real quick. 3. Although having no levels would be a good idea, it would eventually feel purposeless if you have been playing an mmo for a few years and your character doesn't really advance compared to noobs besides gear. The problem here is not that there is no advancement...its that you have been programmed by these junk games to ONLY view advancement in terms of levels. There are a plethora of things which can be seen as advancements to your character...and many of them are used across the sea of MMO's. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by naming them all off, I'm sure that once you read this and think on it for a moment...you'll remember several yourself. I believe that most of THIS statement is due to you having a knee-jerk reaction to the poster you were speaking to. 4. Whats wrong with Decay/Wear out system. Every mmorpg needs a consequence system or else death would be meaningless. Its a lot better and not as harsh as exp loss. It also adds somewhat of a small immersion in the game. There is nothing wrong with such systems as they are used in games which reflect a similar sense of realism to the PRODUCTION of said weapons and armor. If the only way to regain your "Uber Sword of the 9 gods" is to raid for 12 hours again...then a wearing system is junk. Its taking the "carrot on a stick" system used by these games and slamming it into your face over and over by stealing back the very items they made you spend obscene amounts of time earning to begin with. Now...in a true production system, wear and tear contributes to an existing economy and imposes boundaries to PvP. It crafts a form of strategy to the mix...allowing things like attrition to take place. Nostalgia is a confusing thing. Peoples minds tend to only remeber the good things when they feel nostalgia and ignore all the bad aspects of what they are feeling the nostalgia towards. Games like WoW/EQ2 are far from being linear. For example you can do 25 man raid content, 10 man raid content, arenas, battlegrounds, daily quest, faction quests, crafting if you want and etc.. And by the way every single mmorpg or game in general eventually gets repetitive after playing it multiple times. Nothing lasts forever.
Post it notes last forever. Oh, and City of Heros character creation system being fun enough to warrant a re-sub ever so often is pretty "forever" too. Nostalgia is a pretty big problem for the genre as a whole...because we keep looking back on the systems invented by EQ and pretending like we actually enjoyed it.
Ohhh, I guess I never understood the meaning of sandbox, cause if you mean the only thing to do is fight pirates, mine rocks, and build stuff, i guess all games are sandbox
1. In any mmorpg you are not forced to level, you can soley be a crafter if you want but why would anybody want to do that? Yay lets play a game where all we do is make things! Both my aging father and my wife would disagree. Even I would, if the crafting and gathering were placed in a fun way. I actually became obsessively involved in Harvest Moon games for a moment...and all those are can be summed up with "crafting games". My father plays Perfect World right now...and most days actually does little more than fly around harvesting lumber and ore and herbs for the sake of building more armor and weapons. Some people REALLY enjoy crafting...they like creating their own personalized piece of the game world. 2. Houses appearing in the world is a nice feature but an uneccessary one that causes a lot of problems. The only reason it was okay in SWG was because that game had tons of empty areas with no monsters and just a barren nothingness. Housing is more than just a nice feature. Its hands off content. Seriously...if you could add 80-100 hours of game play to a person by doing little more than adding a few models to a game, wouldn't you do it? Adding content which decorates houses takes far less time than raiding to develop...and many people WILL spend that time to get it. Look at Animal Crossing...a whole game devoted to nothing BUT decorating a house. Smash success! I, myself, spent easily half a year playing that game...and ALL I did was farm for new furniture. Think about how that applies to housing in an MMO real quick. 3. Although having no levels would be a good idea, it would eventually feel purposeless if you have been playing an mmo for a few years and your character doesn't really advance compared to noobs besides gear. The problem here is not that there is no advancement...its that you have been programmed by these junk games to ONLY view advancement in terms of levels. There are a plethora of things which can be seen as advancements to your character...and many of them are used across the sea of MMO's. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by naming them all off, I'm sure that once you read this and think on it for a moment...you'll remember several yourself. I believe that most of THIS statement is due to you having a knee-jerk reaction to the poster you were speaking to. 4. Whats wrong with Decay/Wear out system. Every mmorpg needs a consequence system or else death would be meaningless. Its a lot better and not as harsh as exp loss. It also adds somewhat of a small immersion in the game. There is nothing wrong with such systems as they are used in games which reflect a similar sense of realism to the PRODUCTION of said weapons and armor. If the only way to regain your "Uber Sword of the 9 gods" is to raid for 12 hours again...then a wearing system is junk. Its taking the "carrot on a stick" system used by these games and slamming it into your face over and over by stealing back the very items they made you spend obscene amounts of time earning to begin with. Now...in a true production system, wear and tear contributes to an existing economy and imposes boundaries to PvP. It crafts a form of strategy to the mix...allowing things like attrition to take place. Nostalgia is a confusing thing. Peoples minds tend to only remeber the good things when they feel nostalgia and ignore all the bad aspects of what they are feeling the nostalgia towards. Games like WoW/EQ2 are far from being linear. For example you can do 25 man raid content, 10 man raid content, arenas, battlegrounds, daily quest, faction quests, crafting if you want and etc.. And by the way every single mmorpg or game in general eventually gets repetitive after playing it multiple times. Nothing lasts forever.
Post it notes last forever. Oh, and City of Heros character creation system being fun enough to warrant a re-sub ever so often is pretty "forever" too. Nostalgia is a pretty big problem for the genre as a whole...because we keep looking back on the systems invented by EQ and pretending like we actually enjoyed it.
The days of the gear progression system are dead.
These are in response to your responses:
1. Those games you listed soley concetrate on simulating crafting/working, mmorpgs focus on multiple aspects. Like I said before you can craft soley if you want but you will only get a small portion of the game and in my personal opinion id rather do everything the game has to offer.
2. Real time Housing isn't something that is simply added to a game. It is very complicated and can mess with the game world. So far the only games to implement them have a lot of empty spaces/worlds. Instanced housing is a great edition but Real time Housing brings so many problems that I personally think its not worth it. (And I personally found Animal Crossing incredibly boring)
(For 1. and 2., singleplayer games can't really be compared to mmos)
3. Almost every mmorpg has a leveling system or maybe disguised as a ranking system. Heck even a lot of single player rpgs have them because they keep you hooked. Why do you think even most online FPS are recently adding rank levels, because they keep you wanting more. Im not saying levels are necessary but the OP makes them sound like a bad thing.
4. I am a bit confused on what you are saying for this one but what I mean by decay is just paying a repair bill and I think that adds some immersion.
At least the devs at Funcom never forgot that they were making a game.
Because lots of companies thought they could make a quick buck in the MMO market by producing gigantic visual chat servers that they hoped their subscribers would somehow turn into a game.
See Shadowbane and Acheron's call 2 and Lineage 2 and EQ2 for example.
So many companies try to take a quick road, build servers, build pretty graphics, and bam, insta-game right? NO. Glorified chat server is what (and one that takes up a lot more system resources than IRC :P)
The bottom line is this: Funcom aimed to create a story-driven world that would pay homage to Robert Howard's Conan short stories; to put US into those stories and let us live that adventure. And they meant to make a game first and foremost, both immersive and fun. (WoW actually did this too, if you need a success to compare it against). And frankly, the fact that it's an online world should come secondary to making sure the game is F U N. Because if it isn't, nobody is going to stick around to make a "community".
So, since the original poster is enjoying his "ride," I'd say he's in fact having fun, and therefore the game is exactly what it should be. (which is good)
edit: Lineage 2 is really only successful because Korean players seem to have way lower standards than the rest of us have regarding our games.
Levels are extremely bad for MMO's. They limit your gameplay immensely.
For starters, levels predetermine combat thanks to the Damage Multiplier system.
It works like this...
same lvl mob = no penalty on your damage output nor any bonus to damage received
mob +5 levels above you = x amount damage reduction by you and x amount bonus damage received.
mob -5 levels below you = x amount of bonus added to you and x amount of bonus reduced.
So in other words, gear and skill dont really matter in a level based system. The end result is predetermined. Unless your asleep, you will always beat mobs x number of levels below you and you will always lose to mobs x number of levels above you. The game is fixed !
Skill based games dont work like this. In a skill based game there are ways to overcome that previously unbeatable mob. Gear really can make a difference as well as skill attributes and other minor means to improve your avatar. The unbeatable mob isnt going to do bonus damage to you because he's x number of levels above you. He will hit the same no matter. You however can improve yourself enough to kill the unkillable.
level based games will always be inferior to skill based sandbox MMO's
Yknow what? At least the devs at Funcom never forgot that they were making a game. Because lots of companies thought they could make a quick buck in the MMO market by producing gigantic visual chat servers that they hoped their subscribers would somehow turn into a game. See Shadowbane and Acheron's call 2 and Lineage 2 and EQ2 for example. So many companies try to take a quick road, build servers, build pretty graphics, and bam, insta-game right? NO. Glorified chat server is what (and one that takes up a lot more system resources than IRC :P) The bottom line is this: Funcom aimed to create a story-driven world that would pay homage to Robert Howard's Conan short stories; to put US into those stories and let us live that adventure. And they meant to make a game first and foremost, both immersive and fun. (WoW actually did this too, if you need a success to compare it against). And frankly, the fact that it's an online world should come secondary to making sure the game is F U N. Because if it isn't, nobody is going to stick around to make a "community". So, since the original poster is enjoying his "ride," I'd say he's in fact having fun, and therefore the game is exactly what it should be. (which is good) edit: Lineage 2 is really only successful because Korean players seem to have way lower standards than the rest of us have regarding our games.
in other words, funcom wrote a book. books can only be read so many times before they get boring. Wouldnt it have been better if Funcom had created a Virtual World (sandbox MMO) where we could write our own books ?
Yknow what? At least the devs at Funcom never forgot that they were making a game. Because lots of companies thought they could make a quick buck in the MMO market by producing gigantic visual chat servers that they hoped their subscribers would somehow turn into a game. See Shadowbane and Acheron's call 2 and Lineage 2 and EQ2 for example. So many companies try to take a quick road, build servers, build pretty graphics, and bam, insta-game right? NO. Glorified chat server is what (and one that takes up a lot more system resources than IRC :P) The bottom line is this: Funcom aimed to create a story-driven world that would pay homage to Robert Howard's Conan short stories; to put US into those stories and let us live that adventure. And they meant to make a game first and foremost, both immersive and fun. (WoW actually did this too, if you need a success to compare it against). And frankly, the fact that it's an online world should come secondary to making sure the game is F U N. Because if it isn't, nobody is going to stick around to make a "community". So, since the original poster is enjoying his "ride," I'd say he's in fact having fun, and therefore the game is exactly what it should be. (which is good) edit: Lineage 2 is really only successful because Korean players seem to have way lower standards than the rest of us have regarding our games.
in other words, funcom wrote a book. books can only be read so many times before they get boring. Wouldnt it have been better if Funcom had created a Virtual World (sandbox MMO) where we could write our own books ?
Certainly. And they can hire you to take care of the whole sandbox thing for them I'm sure. Anyway, as with WoW, the book ends and the personal story begins with the endgame (which I will quickly agree can also become boring)
But let me put it to you this way... if something is skill based, then I grind my skills up to max, at which point I am... well... maxed
Then what? Well, then we start fighting big monsters in raids and... collecting loot... and... wait, that sounds like end game WoW... Which also becomes boring.
In fact, if you want to take it to its furthest extreme, EVERYTHING becomes boring with time. Damn human need for novelty. Alas.
edit: and personally, I've always felt that a Game and a Virtual World were two distinct and separate things... and if a company aims to make one or the other, well then that's what they do. Perhaps we need to clamor for a Virtual World to be made for us... /shrug
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
all of your items have a durability rating. Even in today's linear games they have this durability rating. Brand new items like a sword for example will have a rating of 100 / 100.
Now in a linear MMO, if you use that sword and it goes down to 0 / 100, you go and repair it. Now its back to 100 / 100
In a sandbox MMO with decay, you allow a sword to reach 0 / 100, its destroyed. The item will need to be replaced. You can repair items like say the sword is 50 / 100. Once you make a repair, the durability will go down. It might now be 95 / 95. And the next time you repair it, 90 / 90. Eventually the item will reach 0 / 0 and again you will need to replace that sword.
replacing items is the cornerstone of a player run economy. If you dont need to ever buy a shield, sword, or helmet ever again how will a crafter get repeat business ?
I cant even believe I had to explain that but this just proves my point. That the millions of players WoW brought into the MMO market dont realize there are other types of MMO's out there.
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Yknow what? At least the devs at Funcom never forgot that they were making a game. Because lots of companies thought they could make a quick buck in the MMO market by producing gigantic visual chat servers that they hoped their subscribers would somehow turn into a game. See Shadowbane and Acheron's call 2 and Lineage 2 and EQ2 for example. So many companies try to take a quick road, build servers, build pretty graphics, and bam, insta-game right? NO. Glorified chat server is what (and one that takes up a lot more system resources than IRC :P) The bottom line is this: Funcom aimed to create a story-driven world that would pay homage to Robert Howard's Conan short stories; to put US into those stories and let us live that adventure. And they meant to make a game first and foremost, both immersive and fun. (WoW actually did this too, if you need a success to compare it against). And frankly, the fact that it's an online world should come secondary to making sure the game is F U N. Because if it isn't, nobody is going to stick around to make a "community". So, since the original poster is enjoying his "ride," I'd say he's in fact having fun, and therefore the game is exactly what it should be. (which is good) edit: Lineage 2 is really only successful because Korean players seem to have way lower standards than the rest of us have regarding our games.
in other words, funcom wrote a book. books can only be read so many times before they get boring. Wouldnt it have been better if Funcom had created a Virtual World (sandbox MMO) where we could write our own books ?
Certainly. And they can hire you to take care of the whole sandbox thing for them I'm sure. Anyway, as with WoW, the book ends and the personal story begins with the endgame (which I will quickly agree can also become boring)
But let me put it to you this way... if something is skill based, then I grind my skills up to max, at which point I am... well... maxed
Then what? Well, then we start fighting big monsters in raids and... collecting loot... and... wait, that sounds like end game WoW... Which also becomes boring.
In fact, if you want to take it to its furthest extreme, EVERYTHING becomes boring with time. Damn human need for novelty. Alas.
edit: and personally, I've always felt that a Game and a Virtual World were two distinct and separate things... and if a company aims to make one or the other, well then that's what they do. Perhaps we need to clamor for a Virtual World to be made for us... /shrug
a sandbox MMO is basically a virtual world (depending on the game). Google Richard Vogel or Ralph Koster, theyre big advocates of virtual worlds / MMO's
Star Wars Galaxies certainly was in essence a virtual world. You could live our your game life as a simple Miner, never having touched a pistol before. Or you could do tattoos for a living. I know players that ran a Taxi service once they added vehicles that could hold multiple players. And of course they had the combat types.
Skill based games dont really have caps like level based ones do. There is no tier 6 armor for sandbox toons. Depending on the game, you could literally improve forever your ability...there is no cap in some cases. EVE is a prime example of this.
WoW's success really did some damage to the movement for virtual world MMO's (sandboxes). SOE quickly revamped Star Wars Galaxies into a linear wow clone (after wow's success) which broke the hearts of those people that were literally living in that game.
When I hear of a new MMO coming, I dont hope I can get to do some cool quests and reach the lvl cap, snoozefest ! When they announced Star Trek the first thing I thought was "man I hope I can play a ferengi merchant or maybe a romulan spy or maybe i could work as a terraforming scientist" of course the game (before it was scrapped) wasnt going to give me any of those possibilities because it was heading down the Linear road sigh. My options would have been 6 classes with quests and levels...forget about living in the universe and doing my own thing.
Thats why I referred to AoC and other linear games as Amusement Parks. They are fun but there are better options for MMO's.
Wouldnt it be preferrable if Age of Conan was a living / breathing world ? Youd still have the option to lop some heads off but hey maybe your wife would like to play a dancing girl wench. Or maybe you'd like to try your hand as a thief ? How about a merc or run your own business ? Maybe even build your own dam city ! This is what sandbox allows for, freedom and possibilities. Linear is nothing compared to sandbox
MMO with a nice story and lots of fun quests to do like EQ2 is just what I need. Since I just want to have fun and be entertained for a few hours in an evening. As for a sandbox experience. I get that in real life. It's called life in the big city. You should try it sometime. It can be scary as hell at first, but once you get the hang of it the rewards are great.
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
you can speculate and stress about what could have happened, or you can stop and enjoy *this* moment too.
on a side note, mmo's are persistant worlds, which means they expand, just like your mind! if popularity dies down they can always release more linear content. sand box is great, but scripted games have potencial for more intricacies.
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
thanks for the post in support ! You got me rethinking of trying EVE again (i played it once for about a week 2 yrs ago).
SWG will always be a painful reminder as long as developers refuse to make us another virtual sandbox world. I often think about my old shop and the events held like weddings, pvp contests with prizes, it was a real-life community and I miss it
MMO with a nice story and lots of fun quests to do like EQ2 is just what I need. Since I just want to have fun and be entertained for a few hours in an evening. As for a sandbox experience. I get that in real life. It's called life in the big city. You should try it sometime. It can be scary as hell at first, but once you get the hang of it the rewards are great.
virtual worlds have endless possibilities. Its a chance to do things that you cant do in the real world. And despite the recent trend, I believe they remain the future of gaming.
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
Nice way to sound like a complete tool, to even a person who loves sandbox style games. Even with my love of pre-cu, and how much i did enjoy the few months i had of EvE, sandbox games are in no way or form more "Elite" as you seem to be describing them as level based games. By comments like "most of you will never realize" who do you think you are honestly?
Yes its true in SWG, i had a 8 hour stay inside a cantina where i just talked and listened to the music and had fun. Singing jeepers creepers to the tune of an in game song.
Yes its true in SWG i built a city, I stood from the top of a hill and looked down on it and it was wonderful and my creation. I raised a good amount of people only to see it crumble a month later by someone elses doing, standing atop the same mountain with no city below.
Yes it was the most real world experiance i had of another world that "I" created, by having my own weapons i made and armor i crafted.
But then at the same time you have a game like WoW
Were I went into the deadmines for the first time, and after i got out, i thought "Man that was a "Real" adventure", like nothing i had ever seen before.
Or the time i went to Tarren mill with my guild and watched a group of 25 horde come up from the road at us full bore and we charged into battle giving me the feeling i was in a smaller versiuon of braveheart.
Yes once i tricked my asshole guild leader into thinking that the whole guild was against her and that she was going to loose of all friends, leading to the demise of my guild of months and causing her to quit the game.
Yes there is other things out there, but you can enjoy both equally, just dont burn yourself out by playing a game style you dont like for months at a time.
A Sand Box mmo is EvE online but i dont understand how this poster said that AOC isnt sandbox where
u can actualy take land and build your cities and pvp? I mean even in EvE tehere are zones that npc will defend and will kill you if u try to kill another player. You can take space in 0.0 security too I cant think of any mmo thats pure sandbox I mean the only mmo thats still in the making that sound like total sandbox is Darkfall but that might be vapor ware .
I agree in that the point is missed.. What we see is what ALL MMO's are and will be... We must enjoy that ride while we can, because the next time it may not be as fun.. All I know is right now AoC feels like a brand new Porsche... Until it ages...and then I will be driving a clunker... Good points indeed
Not so. All MMOs are not linear. Its just a recent trend brought on by the success of WoW. Now mainstream MMOs like to focus on boring repetative quests and item based content. The best MMOs were the earlier ones with experimentation in various designs, and the most sought after, the sandbox. Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, and SWG were great sandbox games. We'll return to the trend someday hopefully, but MMOs are too mainstream right now, and developers like going the boring safe route and make games like AoC that are virtually the same game that released last year with better graphics.
AoC is not a sandbox. Its heavily instanced and regulated. The PvP zone is an instanced branch where you need permission to attack eachother and the numbers are hard capped. Player cities are nothing new, they've been around since 2001 and are also separate from most of the content.
Again, on level advancement vs skill/gear advancement.
Look, I've played games that were very skill based (EVE, anyone? Others as well). In everey one, no matter how varied your potential is, there's always 5-6 major paths that everyone steers into. These essentially become classes. Ditto with weapon/armour sets. Certain sets become fotm, and then all that veriety gets funnelled down into a couple small groupings. It's classes by another name.
And challenge in battle? It's the same thing. Sure at x level I know I can take down x mob....but I ALSO know with x skillsets/gearsets I can take down X mob. One thing is the same as another, just worded different.
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
Nice way to sound like a complete tool, to even a person who loves sandbox style games. Even with my love of pre-cu, and how much i did enjoy the few months i had of EvE, sandbox games are in no way or form more "Elite" as you seem to be describing them as level based games. By comments like "most of you will never realize" who do you think you are honestly?
Yes its true in SWG, i had a 8 hour stay inside a cantina where i just talked and listened to the music and had fun. Singing jeepers creepers to the tune of an in game song.
Yes its true in SWG i built a city, I stood from the top of a hill and looked down on it and it was wonderful and my creation. I raised a good amount of people only to see it crumble a month later by someone elses doing, standing atop the same mountain with no city below.
Yes it was the most real world experiance i had of another world that "I" created, by having my own weapons i made and armor i crafted.
But then at the same time you have a game like WoW
Were I went into the deadmines for the first time, and after i got out, i thought "Man that was a "Real" adventure", like nothing i had ever seen before.
Or the time i went to Tarren mill with my guild and watched a group of 25 horde come up from the road at us full bore and we charged into battle giving me the feeling i was in a smaller versiuon of braveheart.
Yes once i tricked my asshole guild leader into thinking that the whole guild was against her and that she was going to loose of all friends, leading to the demise of my guild of months and causing her to quit the game.
Yes there is other things out there, but you can enjoy both equally, just dont burn yourself out by playing a game style you dont like for months at a time.
-Jive
To answer your first question: I think I'm a person with quite a bit of MMO experience who knows what he likes in a game. If you don't feel the same way, please feel free to share your feelings without name calling. Another reason I enjoyed SWG and EVE, the targeted audience was above 12 years of age.
You seemed to answer your own question about why I feel sandbox games are elite, or else you obviously don't understand the point of most of these posts. You enjoyed the deadmines your FIRST TIME through. You probably had fun runs 2-5 as well. What about number 6? You probably enjoyed run number 15 because it was much different than the previous 14, right? Wrong. If you enjoyed running the same instance, over and over (which is the basis for the game - involving end-game PvE content) then you really do indeed belong in WoW and should not try to dabble in another.
By the way, if you think you're good at tricking people, EVE online is the game for you. Aside from pirating, there are a lot of people who make a fortune off getting into corps, gaining trust, then walking away with the bank. The beautiful thing about this, it is not only allowed but encouraged to keep people on their toes. If such a thing happened in WoW, 50 people would petition, a GM would investigate, and the guild would be returned their gold and told "to be careful." It reminds me of a mother/child relationship.
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
thanks for the post in support ! You got me rethinking of trying EVE again (i played it once for about a week 2 yrs ago).
SWG will always be a painful reminder as long as developers refuse to make us another virtual sandbox world. I often think about my old shop and the events held like weddings, pvp contests with prizes, it was a real-life community and I miss it
The things people did, it encouraged creativity, cleverness, and teamwork to accomplish some of the player ran events. Games like WoW and AoC sadly don't even allow someone to think outside the box. I remember going back after a few months of the NGE for a day to check my friend's list. It was a sad sight to see my once large and active list, show everyone I knew as "offline" and I knew that mean't they were gone.
I too tried EVE awhile back and thought I would enjoy the game but realized how much time had to be invested in training the skills before you could really experience the game so I stopped playing, but kepting training. I guess the money invested and time spent is paying off, now that I'm enjoying getting past the simple beginnings.
Comments
I agree with the OP , they are dumbing down MMORPGS and turning them into single player RPG's
Which is fine in you like single player RPG'S
Post it notes last forever. Oh, and City of Heros character creation system being fun enough to warrant a re-sub ever so often is pretty "forever" too. Nostalgia is a pretty big problem for the genre as a whole...because we keep looking back on the systems invented by EQ and pretending like we actually enjoyed it.
The days of the gear progression system are dead.
Ohhh, I guess I never understood the meaning of sandbox, cause if you mean the only thing to do is fight pirates, mine rocks, and build stuff, i guess all games are sandbox
Post it notes last forever. Oh, and City of Heros character creation system being fun enough to warrant a re-sub ever so often is pretty "forever" too. Nostalgia is a pretty big problem for the genre as a whole...because we keep looking back on the systems invented by EQ and pretending like we actually enjoyed it.
The days of the gear progression system are dead.
These are in response to your responses:
1. Those games you listed soley concetrate on simulating crafting/working, mmorpgs focus on multiple aspects. Like I said before you can craft soley if you want but you will only get a small portion of the game and in my personal opinion id rather do everything the game has to offer.
2. Real time Housing isn't something that is simply added to a game. It is very complicated and can mess with the game world. So far the only games to implement them have a lot of empty spaces/worlds. Instanced housing is a great edition but Real time Housing brings so many problems that I personally think its not worth it. (And I personally found Animal Crossing incredibly boring)
(For 1. and 2., singleplayer games can't really be compared to mmos)
3. Almost every mmorpg has a leveling system or maybe disguised as a ranking system. Heck even a lot of single player rpgs have them because they keep you hooked. Why do you think even most online FPS are recently adding rank levels, because they keep you wanting more. Im not saying levels are necessary but the OP makes them sound like a bad thing.
4. I am a bit confused on what you are saying for this one but what I mean by decay is just paying a repair bill and I think that adds some immersion.
Yknow what?
At least the devs at Funcom never forgot that they were making a game.
Because lots of companies thought they could make a quick buck in the MMO market by producing gigantic visual chat servers that they hoped their subscribers would somehow turn into a game.
See Shadowbane and Acheron's call 2 and Lineage 2 and EQ2 for example.
So many companies try to take a quick road, build servers, build pretty graphics, and bam, insta-game right? NO. Glorified chat server is what (and one that takes up a lot more system resources than IRC :P)
The bottom line is this: Funcom aimed to create a story-driven world that would pay homage to Robert Howard's Conan short stories; to put US into those stories and let us live that adventure. And they meant to make a game first and foremost, both immersive and fun. (WoW actually did this too, if you need a success to compare it against). And frankly, the fact that it's an online world should come secondary to making sure the game is F U N. Because if it isn't, nobody is going to stick around to make a "community".
So, since the original poster is enjoying his "ride," I'd say he's in fact having fun, and therefore the game is exactly what it should be. (which is good)
edit: Lineage 2 is really only successful because Korean players seem to have way lower standards than the rest of us have regarding our games.
Levels are extremely bad for MMO's. They limit your gameplay immensely.
For starters, levels predetermine combat thanks to the Damage Multiplier system.
It works like this...
So in other words, gear and skill dont really matter in a level based system. The end result is predetermined. Unless your asleep, you will always beat mobs x number of levels below you and you will always lose to mobs x number of levels above you. The game is fixed !
Skill based games dont work like this. In a skill based game there are ways to overcome that previously unbeatable mob. Gear really can make a difference as well as skill attributes and other minor means to improve your avatar. The unbeatable mob isnt going to do bonus damage to you because he's x number of levels above you. He will hit the same no matter. You however can improve yourself enough to kill the unkillable.
level based games will always be inferior to skill based sandbox MMO's
in other words, funcom wrote a book. books can only be read so many times before they get boring. Wouldnt it have been better if Funcom had created a Virtual World (sandbox MMO) where we could write our own books ?
so is "skill based" now synonymous with "sandbox"?
Just trying to get my Jargon straight
in other words, funcom wrote a book. books can only be read so many times before they get boring. Wouldnt it have been better if Funcom had created a Virtual World (sandbox MMO) where we could write our own books ?
Certainly. And they can hire you to take care of the whole sandbox thing for them I'm sure. Anyway, as with WoW, the book ends and the personal story begins with the endgame (which I will quickly agree can also become boring)
But let me put it to you this way... if something is skill based, then I grind my skills up to max, at which point I am... well... maxed
Then what? Well, then we start fighting big monsters in raids and... collecting loot... and... wait, that sounds like end game WoW... Which also becomes boring.
In fact, if you want to take it to its furthest extreme, EVERYTHING becomes boring with time. Damn human need for novelty. Alas.
edit: and personally, I've always felt that a Game and a Virtual World were two distinct and separate things... and if a company aims to make one or the other, well then that's what they do. Perhaps we need to clamor for a Virtual World to be made for us... /shrug
You need to quit worrying about the future and enjoy the moment!!! you will never be happy if you dont enjoy the moment!!!!!!!!!! This is the key to life!!!! and no im not high!!!!!!
to the person that was confused about "decay"
Decay means simply this...
all of your items have a durability rating. Even in today's linear games they have this durability rating. Brand new items like a sword for example will have a rating of 100 / 100.
Now in a linear MMO, if you use that sword and it goes down to 0 / 100, you go and repair it. Now its back to 100 / 100
In a sandbox MMO with decay, you allow a sword to reach 0 / 100, its destroyed. The item will need to be replaced. You can repair items like say the sword is 50 / 100. Once you make a repair, the durability will go down. It might now be 95 / 95. And the next time you repair it, 90 / 90. Eventually the item will reach 0 / 0 and again you will need to replace that sword.
replacing items is the cornerstone of a player run economy. If you dont need to ever buy a shield, sword, or helmet ever again how will a crafter get repeat business ?
I cant even believe I had to explain that but this just proves my point. That the millions of players WoW brought into the MMO market dont realize there are other types of MMO's out there.
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
in other words, funcom wrote a book. books can only be read so many times before they get boring. Wouldnt it have been better if Funcom had created a Virtual World (sandbox MMO) where we could write our own books ?
Certainly. And they can hire you to take care of the whole sandbox thing for them I'm sure. Anyway, as with WoW, the book ends and the personal story begins with the endgame (which I will quickly agree can also become boring)
But let me put it to you this way... if something is skill based, then I grind my skills up to max, at which point I am... well... maxed
Then what? Well, then we start fighting big monsters in raids and... collecting loot... and... wait, that sounds like end game WoW... Which also becomes boring.
In fact, if you want to take it to its furthest extreme, EVERYTHING becomes boring with time. Damn human need for novelty. Alas.
edit: and personally, I've always felt that a Game and a Virtual World were two distinct and separate things... and if a company aims to make one or the other, well then that's what they do. Perhaps we need to clamor for a Virtual World to be made for us... /shrug
a sandbox MMO is basically a virtual world (depending on the game). Google Richard Vogel or Ralph Koster, theyre big advocates of virtual worlds / MMO's
Star Wars Galaxies certainly was in essence a virtual world. You could live our your game life as a simple Miner, never having touched a pistol before. Or you could do tattoos for a living. I know players that ran a Taxi service once they added vehicles that could hold multiple players. And of course they had the combat types.
Skill based games dont really have caps like level based ones do. There is no tier 6 armor for sandbox toons. Depending on the game, you could literally improve forever your ability...there is no cap in some cases. EVE is a prime example of this.
WoW's success really did some damage to the movement for virtual world MMO's (sandboxes). SOE quickly revamped Star Wars Galaxies into a linear wow clone (after wow's success) which broke the hearts of those people that were literally living in that game.
When I hear of a new MMO coming, I dont hope I can get to do some cool quests and reach the lvl cap, snoozefest ! When they announced Star Trek the first thing I thought was "man I hope I can play a ferengi merchant or maybe a romulan spy or maybe i could work as a terraforming scientist" of course the game (before it was scrapped) wasnt going to give me any of those possibilities because it was heading down the Linear road sigh. My options would have been 6 classes with quests and levels...forget about living in the universe and doing my own thing.
Thats why I referred to AoC and other linear games as Amusement Parks. They are fun but there are better options for MMO's.
Wouldnt it be preferrable if Age of Conan was a living / breathing world ? Youd still have the option to lop some heads off but hey maybe your wife would like to play a dancing girl wench. Or maybe you'd like to try your hand as a thief ? How about a merc or run your own business ? Maybe even build your own dam city ! This is what sandbox allows for, freedom and possibilities. Linear is nothing compared to sandbox
MMO with a nice story and lots of fun quests to do like EQ2 is just what I need. Since I just want to have fun and be entertained for a few hours in an evening. As for a sandbox experience. I get that in real life. It's called life in the big city. You should try it sometime. It can be scary as hell at first, but once you get the hang of it the rewards are great.
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
you can speculate and stress about what could have happened, or you can stop and enjoy *this* moment too.
on a side note, mmo's are persistant worlds, which means they expand, just like your mind! if popularity dies down they can always release more linear content. sand box is great, but scripted games have potencial for more intricacies.
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
thanks for the post in support ! You got me rethinking of trying EVE again (i played it once for about a week 2 yrs ago).
SWG will always be a painful reminder as long as developers refuse to make us another virtual sandbox world. I often think about my old shop and the events held like weddings, pvp contests with prizes, it was a real-life community and I miss it
virtual worlds have endless possibilities. Its a chance to do things that you cant do in the real world. And despite the recent trend, I believe they remain the future of gaming.
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
Nice way to sound like a complete tool, to even a person who loves sandbox style games. Even with my love of pre-cu, and how much i did enjoy the few months i had of EvE, sandbox games are in no way or form more "Elite" as you seem to be describing them as level based games. By comments like "most of you will never realize" who do you think you are honestly?
Yes its true in SWG, i had a 8 hour stay inside a cantina where i just talked and listened to the music and had fun. Singing jeepers creepers to the tune of an in game song.
Yes its true in SWG i built a city, I stood from the top of a hill and looked down on it and it was wonderful and my creation. I raised a good amount of people only to see it crumble a month later by someone elses doing, standing atop the same mountain with no city below.
Yes it was the most real world experiance i had of another world that "I" created, by having my own weapons i made and armor i crafted.
But then at the same time you have a game like WoW
Were I went into the deadmines for the first time, and after i got out, i thought "Man that was a "Real" adventure", like nothing i had ever seen before.
Or the time i went to Tarren mill with my guild and watched a group of 25 horde come up from the road at us full bore and we charged into battle giving me the feeling i was in a smaller versiuon of braveheart.
Yes once i tricked my asshole guild leader into thinking that the whole guild was against her and that she was going to loose of all friends, leading to the demise of my guild of months and causing her to quit the game.
Yes there is other things out there, but you can enjoy both equally, just dont burn yourself out by playing a game style you dont like for months at a time.
-Jive
A Sand Box mmo is EvE online but i dont understand how this poster said that AOC isnt sandbox where
u can actualy take land and build your cities and pvp? I mean even in EvE tehere are zones that npc will defend and will kill you if u try to kill another player. You can take space in 0.0 security too I cant think of any mmo thats pure sandbox I mean the only mmo thats still in the making that sound like total sandbox is Darkfall but that might be vapor ware .
Not so. All MMOs are not linear. Its just a recent trend brought on by the success of WoW. Now mainstream MMOs like to focus on boring repetative quests and item based content. The best MMOs were the earlier ones with experimentation in various designs, and the most sought after, the sandbox. Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, and SWG were great sandbox games. We'll return to the trend someday hopefully, but MMOs are too mainstream right now, and developers like going the boring safe route and make games like AoC that are virtually the same game that released last year with better graphics.
AoC is not a sandbox. Its heavily instanced and regulated. The PvP zone is an instanced branch where you need permission to attack eachother and the numbers are hard capped. Player cities are nothing new, they've been around since 2001 and are also separate from most of the content.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Again, on level advancement vs skill/gear advancement.
Look, I've played games that were very skill based (EVE, anyone? Others as well). In everey one, no matter how varied your potential is, there's always 5-6 major paths that everyone steers into. These essentially become classes. Ditto with weapon/armour sets. Certain sets become fotm, and then all that veriety gets funnelled down into a couple small groupings. It's classes by another name.
And challenge in battle? It's the same thing. Sure at x level I know I can take down x mob....but I ALSO know with x skillsets/gearsets I can take down X mob. One thing is the same as another, just worded different.
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
Nice way to sound like a complete tool, to even a person who loves sandbox style games. Even with my love of pre-cu, and how much i did enjoy the few months i had of EvE, sandbox games are in no way or form more "Elite" as you seem to be describing them as level based games. By comments like "most of you will never realize" who do you think you are honestly?
Yes its true in SWG, i had a 8 hour stay inside a cantina where i just talked and listened to the music and had fun. Singing jeepers creepers to the tune of an in game song.
Yes its true in SWG i built a city, I stood from the top of a hill and looked down on it and it was wonderful and my creation. I raised a good amount of people only to see it crumble a month later by someone elses doing, standing atop the same mountain with no city below.
Yes it was the most real world experiance i had of another world that "I" created, by having my own weapons i made and armor i crafted.
But then at the same time you have a game like WoW
Were I went into the deadmines for the first time, and after i got out, i thought "Man that was a "Real" adventure", like nothing i had ever seen before.
Or the time i went to Tarren mill with my guild and watched a group of 25 horde come up from the road at us full bore and we charged into battle giving me the feeling i was in a smaller versiuon of braveheart.
Yes once i tricked my asshole guild leader into thinking that the whole guild was against her and that she was going to loose of all friends, leading to the demise of my guild of months and causing her to quit the game.
Yes there is other things out there, but you can enjoy both equally, just dont burn yourself out by playing a game style you dont like for months at a time.
-Jive
To answer your first question: I think I'm a person with quite a bit of MMO experience who knows what he likes in a game. If you don't feel the same way, please feel free to share your feelings without name calling. Another reason I enjoyed SWG and EVE, the targeted audience was above 12 years of age.You seemed to answer your own question about why I feel sandbox games are elite, or else you obviously don't understand the point of most of these posts. You enjoyed the deadmines your FIRST TIME through. You probably had fun runs 2-5 as well. What about number 6? You probably enjoyed run number 15 because it was much different than the previous 14, right? Wrong. If you enjoyed running the same instance, over and over (which is the basis for the game - involving end-game PvE content) then you really do indeed belong in WoW and should not try to dabble in another.
By the way, if you think you're good at tricking people, EVE online is the game for you. Aside from pirating, there are a lot of people who make a fortune off getting into corps, gaining trust, then walking away with the bank. The beautiful thing about this, it is not only allowed but encouraged to keep people on their toes. If such a thing happened in WoW, 50 people would petition, a GM would investigate, and the guild would be returned their gold and told "to be careful." It reminds me of a mother/child relationship.
I am enjoying the game (or moment as you stated). However that moment will quickly be over since its a linear game. Had Funcom made it sandbox style, I might be around to enjoy the "moment" for years and years
Thank you for your attempt to explain to these people that another type of MMO does indeed exist. Not having an NPC standing there telling these people what to do, I don't know how they would survive to enjoy themselves. Age of Conan was hailed as some to be the game that would kill WoW. Fifteen minutes into the game I found myself crying. Crying I was laughing so hard at these people (myself included) that put their faith into this.....below par game (sadly WoW has established itself as the par). I feel screwed, but alas... I will take some of the above advice and continue playing before writing a complete novel about how bad the game is.
I've recently started playing EVE and while their time-based progression system isn't very newbie friendly, for veteran players I can certainly see why it is appealing and I am playing the game because it appears EVE cares more about their veteran community than attracting a new audience. The game is appealing because you can choose to have missions given to you or you can choose to go about your own way of making ISK.
WoW was a good game. I don't believe any linear MMO will ever compete with WoW as long as Blizzard doesn't screw it up. WoW seems to have everything pretty close to perfect for those that enjoy that gamestyle (which I did for over a year). After going through my third character however, I realized I was replaying months and months of my life all to simply change my class - something I can do in a sandbox MMOsin weeks, days, or even hours.
Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU and even a little post-CU) was the ideal example of a sandbox game. I knew a guy who played the game for 2 years and guess how many mobs he killed in his entire time playing? ZERO. Most of you can't even fathom the idea of being able to spend hours a day tending harvesters, factories, and your shops, stocking them with armor, weapons, food, buildings, and more and enjoying it. The idea of obtaining a special weapon and not having it last forever, most of you would've quit right there. I got excited about Conan's player cities until I read further. Even player cities, something that sounds like a perfect "build it how you want to build it" have huge restrictions on location placement of buildings.
I played SWG from a few months after release until the day the NGE was released. What is sad is the state that SOE released and left the game in. Lie after lie, change after change, I watched the life get sucked out of that game. I know most of you are sick of the SWG sob stories (myself included) so I will save that for the Refugee forum.
It is terrible but most of you will never even realize that there... is... another...
thanks for the post in support ! You got me rethinking of trying EVE again (i played it once for about a week 2 yrs ago).
SWG will always be a painful reminder as long as developers refuse to make us another virtual sandbox world. I often think about my old shop and the events held like weddings, pvp contests with prizes, it was a real-life community and I miss it
The things people did, it encouraged creativity, cleverness, and teamwork to accomplish some of the player ran events. Games like WoW and AoC sadly don't even allow someone to think outside the box. I remember going back after a few months of the NGE for a day to check my friend's list. It was a sad sight to see my once large and active list, show everyone I knew as "offline" and I knew that mean't they were gone.
I too tried EVE awhile back and thought I would enjoy the game but realized how much time had to be invested in training the skills before you could really experience the game so I stopped playing, but kepting training. I guess the money invested and time spent is paying off, now that I'm enjoying getting past the simple beginnings.
How did you get into EA? And you already played through so many times that you feel the need to throw up? Wow, you're fast.