Question to Dev's: Why the 20 level linear tutorial?

pencilrick · May 2008

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.

I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.

Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.

But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.

Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.

Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.

There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.

(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

Rayx0r · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

Ya I think the storyline kicks ass.

curious, why do you keep refering it to a tutorial? its a story arch, not a tutorial.

felsoule79 · May 2008

I second that, I honestly just don't find this game fun. The graphics are awesome, but this game doesn't do it for me....

pencilrick · May 2008

I guess I want to make my own story through my own choices and their consequences, rather than play some pre-scripted part in a play.

Keep in mind, the idea of being a former slave on a pirate island is great. But having to following the linear quest of freeing the girl, escorting the girl, getting the key, unlocking the gate, etc..., all in a set order and all with preset dialogue feels constrained to me.

Might it have been better just to plop us on the isle and let us take it from there?

jiveturkey12 · May 2008

Originally posted by felsoule79

I second that, I honestly just don't find this game fun. The graphics are awesome, but this game doesn't do it for me....

Thats too bad,

Back to AoC for me.

-Jive

fantaros · May 2008

Originally posted by Rayx0r

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

Ya I think the storyline kicks ass.

curious, why do you keep refering it to a tutorial? its a story arch, not a tutorial.

That's what the devs called it. Tutorial. At one point they said that after go through it with your main u could skip it when rolling alts. Dunno if that made it to launch though

Wharg0ul · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
The linearity of 5-19 is nothing like the first 5 levels, which is a true "tutorial". Give it a few levels, and actually learn the combat...the "always win" situation is about to change drastically for you.
Read some of the combat guides....the sooner you learn how it works, the less frustrated you will be by having your ass handed to you over and over again.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
Check your UI settings. You can turn auto-facing off, etc.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)
Again, levels 1-5 are the true tutorial. That is where the real linear gameplay lies...you will find it to be common in many MMOs.
5-19 are a kind of "graduated learning curve". This is when you are beginning to discover what your class can do, and how to do it. It also leads you into the combat system slowly.
Night time is a single-player story, which helps develop your character.
Day time is a traditional MMO, with quests, instances, other people, vendors, etc.
Once you leave the island (19 or 20, depending on how far you want to push it), you will be ready for the challenges that will face you in greater Hyboria.
Be GLAD they don't just toss you into the world to be maimed mercilessly.

pencilrick · May 2008

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
The linearity of 5-19 is nothing like the first 5 levels, which is a true "tutorial". Give it a few levels, and actually learn the combat...the "always win" situation is about to change drastically for you.
Read some of the combat guides....the sooner you learn how it works, the less frustrated you will be by having your ass handed to you over and over again.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
Check your UI settings. You can turn auto-facing off, etc.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)
Again, levels 1-5 are the true tutorial. That is where the real linear gameplay lies...you will find it to be common in many MMOs.
5-19 are a kind of "graduated learning curve". This is when you are beginning to discover what your class can do, and how to do it. It also leads you into the combat system slowly.
Night time is a single-player story, which helps develop your character.
Day time is a traditional MMO, with quests, instances, other people, vendors, etc.
Once you leave the island (19 or 20, depending on how far you want to push it), you will be ready for the challenges that will face you in greater Hyboria.
Be GLAD they don't just toss you into the world to be maimed mercilessly.

Thanks for the pointers, I'll give it a try, at least past level 20.

Rictis · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

I have played several characters now 10-20, and I will be the first to tell you, that if you think spamming the keys is going to get you kills later you are grossly mistaken. At level 5 sure, you can spam keys early on, but later on 7+ you start seeing the need to perform combo's in good order to perform as much damage as possible. People need to stop posting these types of posts without actually playing farther then the stupid beach where you first land. By the time you get to Tortage your level 5. And you do not have to participate in the night time quests to get to 20 if you dont want to. To leave the island you need to do the quests because it is part of the story and eventually you can leave. But you can play in the day time with everyone else. The only time you get an actual tutorial btw is the first few minutes on the beach the rest of the game is actually a quest after quest type of gaming learning curve.

Rayx0r · May 2008

Originally posted by fantaros

Originally posted by Rayx0r

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

Ya I think the storyline kicks ass.

curious, why do you keep refering it to a tutorial? its a story arch, not a tutorial.

That's what the devs called it. Tutorial. At one point they said that after go through it with your main u could skip it when rolling alts. Dunno if that made it to launch though

Oh I see. the initial tutorial on the island when you land? (I thought he was talking about the first 20 levels and the story arch in tortage) That takes all of like 20 minutes to complete. I guess it is sort of a pain but most MMOs have this.

I think after you hit level 20 on your first toon, your alts get to skip this.

Nadia · May 2008

I posted Funcom commentary earlier regarding this but here's some added info

www.tentonhammer.com/node/21905

Q: Previously you mentioned that you will allow us to skip levels 1-20. It’s not in beta. Will you allow this in release?

Gaute: We will have the opportunity to skip 1-5 most likely; not 1-20. What we’ve done is we’ve opened the world up and let you leave Tortage instead, as I’ve told you earlier today.

Q: So skip 1-5 and leave Tortage after that?

Gaute: Yeah, you can leave Tortage, but there won’t be any low-level content outside of the hub in Tortage. You do not have to do the Destiny Quest over again. You don’t have to do the Destiny Quest, following the path during night. There is low-level non-quest content.

Evan: I can also add something really quick. The reason that we originally allowed the skipping of 1-20 was that long, long ago you didn’t pick your class, you didn’t pick your specialized class until you became level 20. So you were just a mage, and when you got to level 20 you picked “I’m going to be a Demonologist,” but that’s been changed. So we’re choosing our class earlier in the game. That has allowed us to introduce new class abilities starting at level 5 instead of level 20.

Gaute: Even at level 1.

Evan: Yeah, even at level 1 you get a few startup things. Because we’re introducing that right away now, there’s really not the need to skip. The main reason we wanted to allow people to skip is to get into their class after they’ve played it once.

killagoose · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

I'm sorry but if you dont have the patience to wait out a low 20 levels, then the MMO genre is not for you...

LoboMau · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

If you dont like the this type of game with a rich storyline and just want to level, and level, and level go play some asian MMO! And give me your CD Key!!!

Wogg · May 2008

I heard a lot of good things about the first 20 levels and the quests it had tbh.

pencilrick · May 2008

Originally posted by killagoose

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

I'm sorry but if you dont have the patience to wait out a low 20 levels, then the MMO genre is not for you...

I've been playing MMO's for a long time and I will tell you that if you find a game that takes 20 levels before it starts to become fun, then maybe it's not for anyone.

I'll wager that within a year, that 20 level tutorial will be sharply curtailed, just like the tutorial in EQ2. Tutorials are not fun and they certainly are not immersive, and most importantly, are not needed.

pencilrick · May 2008

Originally posted by LoboMau

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

If you dont like the this type of game with a rich storyline and just want to level, and level, and level go play some asian MMO! And give me your CD Key!!!

I love a good storyline, but that doesn't mean I need to be handed a script and to have invisible barriers on either side of the path I walk down, forcing me to go into one direction.

All they have to do with the starting situation in this game is leave you on the beach after the shipwreck and let you take it from there. Being an ex-slave washed ashore on a pirate island is a great starting scenario. But let the players play their characters instead of forcing them into some quest story line.

Housam · May 2008

the game is based on a book...like lotro..it has to have some sort of story....

Rictis · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

Originally posted by killagoose

Originally posted by pencilrick

I went out and bought the game today, loaded it, was very impressed with the manual and the graphics. I knew it had a long in-game tutorial, so I will not pretend to be blindsided, but I will say that for the type of gamer I am, a linear in-game tutorial is a great annoyance, and this one in particular.
I am only level 5 or so in the game, but have not enjoyed any of it. The combat is "spam the keys, always win", the NPC quest dialogue, that must be endured to advance in the tutorial, is not very fun, and the whole thing feels like it's on railroad tracks. Now there may be a big free world after level 20, but I'm wondering whether I have the patience wait it out.
Also, I dislike character models that face at an oblique angle. I'm used to shoulders, feet and face pointing forward. Don't mind the 45 degree stance in combat, but in normal movement it's distracting and annoying. And the character being whipped around to face attackers even though you want to face the other direction is an annoyance as well. Thought that stuff died with EQ2.
But anyway, my main question to the devs is why design something into the game that is not enjoyed? Noobs are not so incompetent as to require 20 levels of tutorial, and experienced gamers are not so patient as to want to bother with that, especially if it's a linear design.
Why would you design such a big negative into what could be a better game? Surely someone in your company opposed going this route.
Your overly lengthy, linear tutorial will drive some players away. It will. Your tutorial is a barrier to enjoyable gameplay. If you want to write scripts, then maybe a career in Hollywood would be preferable to one in game design.
There are better ways to educate new players on how the game plays.
(Also, for those of you who say I should not judge a game until I'm past level 20 or something, I say that a game should grab a player within the first few levels. The first impression is most important.)

I'm sorry but if you dont have the patience to wait out a low 20 levels, then the MMO genre is not for you...

I've been playing MMO's for a long time and I will tell you that if you find a game that takes 20 levels before it starts to become fun, then maybe it's not for anyone.

I'll wager that within a year, that 20 level tutorial will be sharply curtailed, just like the tutorial in EQ2. Tutorials are not fun and they certainly are not immersive, and most importantly, are not needed.

Orly? Not needed you say? I am sorry but, if having a low level tutorial on a new type of combat system saves my group at level 20+ from some idiot causing us to wipe, then I say Tutorials all around. Most people tend to throw themselves in the game (I am guilty as well) and not pay attention to the true mechanics of the game. And then later on you have people that are playing with others who are just spamming keys and think they are contributing. No thank you, do the tutorial at least once, when its done an option should appear to turn it off, but all games imho should have tutorials for all those that arent hardcore gamers. And since you arent a hardcore gamer either I suggest you strap on your seatbelt and learn to play.

sisseflikker · May 2008

So i have to play the first 20 levels alone, no grouping or anything, no pvp. If that is the case this game is not for me.

Wharg0ul · May 2008

well, you caould also skip the night-time quests, level off the regular quests and grinding, and then find the smuggler at lvl 19/20 to leave the Island.

Wharg0ul · May 2008

Originally posted by sisseflikker

So i have to play the first 20 levels alone, no grouping or anything, no pvp. If that is the case this game is not for me.

no, no, no. Look around..this has been answered COUNTLESS times.

1-5, solo beach tutorial.

5-19, devided intop day and night. Night quests are solo story quests designed to build your character's story. Day quests are in the "regular" mmo world, with everyone else. Group, explore, solo, quest, grind, whatever.

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Question to Dev's: Why the 20 level linear tutorial?

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Question to Dev's: Why the 20 level linear tutorial?

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