The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.
I disagree with you on several points of this. You seem to state the PreCU was bug ridden garbage only playable because it had star wars attached to it. You know, its kinda funny that way. All the arguments I hear about the RETURN of the PreCU have little if anything to do with Star Wars. Its about system mechanics that were far more inovative than 90% of the drek out there now. It was about professions that truly meant something to players. It was about the society that we built with the tools we were given.
Did we bitch and moan about bugs? Yepper. What did we say about them? Fix them. Did we say kill off the majority of the professions, the game mechanics and inflict upon us a mess of new bugs? Nope. No mmo in the world is ever going to repeat such an epic attempt at failure to listen to their playerbase mainly due to Sony's catastrophic intended errors.
And as for your guild slowly dropping off - I agree. It was a trickle du to SOE not fixing bugs and not adding content. However, its been an exodus on the scale of a river since they implemented the craptastic NGE.
The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.
The CU did not "make the game the way it should have been". I'll grant you that it fixed a few things that didn't work so well, but it broke far more than it fixed. Making the game narrower and more shallow (a policy continued with a vengence in NGE) was no improvement. A complete overhaul was unnecessary and counterproductive, since most of the major issues could have been fixed with much smaller changes. Inserting levels and setting them up to utterly dominate the combat equation was horrific; it instantly put many players at a severe disadvantage. Also, it effectively removed a lot of what limited content there was because anything more than a handful of levels above or below you became either worthless or lethal.
And that was just the combat side of things. Entertainers were gutted to near-worthlessness by removing most of their in-game purpose. Crafting was severely dumbed-down. A "good low-level weapon" became an oxymoron. Food buffs became pretty pointless, many having the same effects and the ability to mix-n-match mostly gone. Medical crafting was devastated, and a good chunk of the organics-supply economy with it. Many players quit over that, and at least one website devoted to SWG medical crafting died as soon as CU went live.
Should current and former player respect one another? I think so. Former players lost their game and community. Current players are afraid to lose theirs. That's common ground for me. What I don't respect is the poor management of the StarWars Galaxies game and player communities by the parent companies. Destroying something that one target audience was invested in, then building something out of the wreckage and offering it to another target audience was an extremely divisive management strategy. It has had the exact result that a clear thinking management team would have predicted.
I am both and I am actualy tired of being slammed as a vet who decided to return to the game and actualy found it fun. That's what this post is about.
"ummax likes dummed down games better"
"ummax is not a vet because they play the game now"
'ummax must work for soe"
"ummax is an idiot"
I'm kinda tired of hearing it from people who go to the other forum from the vet forum with the same tired arguments over and over again. That and the demands for proof. So as I said before that game is gone. I liked it yes, but I like the present one too possibly even better to be honest as I find more and more content and things to do when I dont want to pvp. I actualy experience far less bugs then I did back then. Many people complain of rubber banding even those I am playing with and I hate to say it I think its associated to their ISP and not sony because well I dont rubber band. I remember I used to /sit on the floor in the med center (i was a combat medic trying to level up) and one minute I would be on one end of the med center and another minute I will visibly slide across the floor to the other end of the room. That stuff is gone. I hate that this was brought to this subforum as I try to stay out of here to be honest lol its like going into a den of wolves at times so I rarely post in this forum and have said like 2 things in this forum. Anyhow to me its over I truly don't understand how you can become embroiled in the fabric of a game to mourn its loss for three years and twist every single thing to your point of view even if it is in fact the opposite. Here is the bottom line if I have made a generalization its a generalization about vets using this forum not about vets "in general" because I play with many vets and I am a vet. My generalization is this. There is a small fraction of the SWG community that has become somehow married to the old version of the game and well the divorce was long over. I dont know how else to say it, but yeah I have come to a conclusion about vets who use this forum and it is that they can't let go. Not all vets are like that in fact I would say most are NOT like that. Only the ones that use this forum and continually post about "then and now" and how much better it was after such a long time. As I said I dont think either version is better then the other and if any version is better its possibly the present one. In the end though it does not matter one Iota its just a game and if you dont like it after 3 years its time to pick up another one or get a different hobby. Model plains or cars or play darts or something.. I dunno /shrugs
I don't think you're an idiot, so let me just put that out there for starters. I also respect your choice to play SWG. A few of my good friends also still play it. Anytime SOE fixes, restores or adds something, I'm happy for these friends of mine. I'd be happier if a really polished StarWars MMO was offerend by a highly reputable service provider, but that's another post.
I suppose some people may talk about issues because they haven't let go of the game and/or communty. Grief looks different for people, and sometimes takes longer for some than others. In my experience, however, many people have let go of the game. They post to correct what they see as revisions of history that deny their experience. I plan to respond to one of those shortly, as a matter of fact.
People have lots of reasons to post from wanting to hold SOE and LA to a higher standard, to wanting to warn people about how players have been treated by them. I can understand that and sometimes share those motivations. If SOE and LA promised to make fixing collision detection a priority, which they did, and it's still not fixed, which it isn't, well I think consumer's have a right to know that. If Smed promised to fast track server mergers, which he did, and they haven't happened, again people have a right to know. If SOE took sub fees from people for the ToOW, which they did, and then borked the expansion and kept the sub fees, once again, people have a right to know. The message here is, if you deal with SOE and LA in this game, this is what we experienced, and you may be treated the same way. We'd like to spare you some suffering if possible.
In all of these instance, I think people have "let go" of the game so to speak. What they may have grabbed onto is a desire for a higher standard of service in this MMO and a desire to spare people a lot of frustration and disappointment.
Scoreboard. PreCU: 200,000+ NGE: Under 50,000 (I had my coffee and felt generous). From these numbers, many conclusions can be drawn and further questions raised. One of which is that if PreCU was so bad, laggy and unplayable - how could that many people keep playing it? And next question, if it was that unplayable - how could I have kept playing it?
The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.
This post reminds me so much of Julio's claims that people were so upset about the NGE because people are simply resistant to change, even if it's for the better. People's general resistance to change is completely irrelelvant to the NGE, and here's why:
People were upset not because of change, but because they were knowlingly misled. They were just promised revamps for a number of professions, and new creatures on a new planet to tame. They purchased an expansion and many purchased additional subscription time to play it. Immediately after the payment for the expansion was accepted, the revamped professions were ALL deleted, as was the profession that could tame the creatures. People weren't upset about change in general, they were upset that they just paid for something and then had it deleted out from under them. They were more upset when they found out that this plan had been in the works for some time, and yet SOE and LA both chose not to inform people until after they took people's cash. This was simply outrageous. If you add to that the negating of all progress on unlocking jedi, the removal of pets, and the breaking of all core game systems, including chat, movement and combat, you'll get a much more accurate picture of why people were truly upset.
To say that people were upset because they don't like change, ignores all of the real reasons for their outrage. It's an attempt to revise history in such a way that all contact with reality must be abandoned.
The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.
The CU did not "make the game the way it should have been". I'll grant you that it fixed a few things that didn't work so well, but it broke far more than it fixed. Making the game narrower and more shallow (a policy continued with a vengence in NGE) was no improvement. A complete overhaul was unnecessary and counterproductive, since most of the major issues could have been fixed with much smaller changes. Inserting levels and setting them up to utterly dominate the combat equation was horrific; it instantly put many players at a severe disadvantage. Also, it effectively removed a lot of what limited content there was because anything more than a handful of levels above or below you became either worthless or lethal.
And that was just the combat side of things. Entertainers were gutted to near-worthlessness by removing most of their in-game purpose. Crafting was severely dumbed-down. A "good low-level weapon" became an oxymoron. Food buffs became pretty pointless, many having the same effects and the ability to mix-n-match mostly gone. Medical crafting was devastated, and a good chunk of the organics-supply economy with it. Many players quit over that, and at least one website devoted to SWG medical crafting died as soon as CU went live.
And here you have a good summary of the actual reasons people were upset about the CU. Not to mention the testing process during which SOE ignored feedback from most of the players pointing out all of these negative impacts as well as all of the new bugs that were being introduced.
In fact, people were asking for change, and working collaboratively with devs to fix the bugs and issues of the original game format. It appeared as though all of this collaborative work towards positive change was flushed down the crapper when some management people decided to copy an competitior's product, copy it quickly, and copy it poorly.
If the positive changes being worked on would have been implemented, then yes you would have seen some people uncomfortable with change in general, but you would have seen many more who appreciated a better functioning game. SOE and LA abandoned this course quite intentionally, and you've seen the impact their decisions have had. People aren't going to sit silently and allow you to deny reality in an attempt to justify SOE and LA's horrible management of their game and treatment of their players.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Originally posted by boognish75 Originally posted by kefkah Scoreboard. PreCU: 200,000+ NGE: Under 50,000 (I had my coffee and felt generous). From these numbers, many conclusions can be drawn and further questions raised. One of which is that if PreCU was so bad, laggy and unplayable - how could that many people keep playing it? And next question, if it was that unplayable - how could I have kept playing it?
The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge. This post reminds me so much of Julio's claims that people were so upset about the NGE because people are simply resistant to change, even if it's for the better. People's general resistance to change is completely irrelelvant to the NGE, and here's why: People were upset not because of change, but because they were knowlingly misled. They were just promised revamps for a number of professions, and new creatures on a new planet to tame. They purchased an expansion and many purchased additional subscription time to play it. Immediately after the payment for the expansion was accepted, the revamped professions were ALL deleted, as was the profession that could tame the creatures. People weren't upset about change in general, they were upset that they just paid for something and then had it deleted out from under them. They were more upset when they found out that this plan had been in the works for some time, and yet SOE and LA both chose not to inform people until after they took people's cash. This was simply outrageous. If you add to that the negating of all progress on unlocking jedi, the removal of pets, and the breaking of all core game systems, including chat, movement and combat, you'll get a much more accurate picture of why people were truly upset. To say that people were upset because they don't like change, ignores all of the real reasons for their outrage. It's an attempt to revise history in such a way that all contact with reality must be abandoned.
People aren't resistant to change; they are resistant to being screwed. Give a man a million bucks, few will be resistant to this change; lie to man and convince him to pay for the destruction of his own virtual world, and he will resist.
People LOVE change if it is good for them; they hate being lied to and when that change is against them.
To say that people don't like change is to completely, misread, and misunderstand human nature, which is exactly what SOE did.
I would suggest go play Age of Conan and forget about SWG its had from what I have read a very good launch and is appearing to be a solid game. As for being upset with the CU I was too that's the whole point but here is the thing I left went and did something else and then returned one day totally just by coincidence to find the game playable and fun so I stayed. SO i know the CU issues as I was one of the proffs/templates that were no more. I played for 1 week after the CU came out i respected my combat medic/ pistoleer to an extremely overpowered BH that could kill anyone because he was a mess and then left. One day while cleaning my filing cabinet a couple months ago I puled out the CD's every game I had played since then had sucked maybe with the exception of eq2 but I dont much like elves or orcs so I installed it and gave it a spin. So yeah unfortunately most of us dont understand the perpetual hate. Then again i'm not much for preordering things until I can see them functioning. I wont be playing Age of Conan although to me it sounds like a solid game simply because I dont like the genre. One day stargate worlds will be released and I will try that and maybe it will replace the only game I actualy really like right now called SWG.
Anyhow since I can't actualy find a reason for this 3 year old laments I have given up asking. ONe person so far has attempted to answer and thanks for that however at the same time its illogical in that its a game its not life and it is by pretty much every measuring stick out there way out of proportion.
For now after trying a ton of extra games I find SWG to be the best for fun factor in my case. I hated WoW and despite what seems to be great game mechanics and artwork and a very very good engine in Age of Conan I just can't fathom playing anymore of that genre. I tried Lineage 2, ryzom (which was actualy decent but its financial problems kinda drove me away, EvE which I hated and found this out in a matter of a few hours or play, ATITD which is different but the player drama was nuts and a fwe others that I have forgotten about I'm sure.
Anyhow see you
try age of conan and try to like uh well get over the issue that is long dead past and over... and maybe have some fun for a change lol
Originally posted by ummax I would suggest go play Age of Conan and forget about SWG its had from what I have read a very good launch and is appearing to be a solid game. As for being upset with the CU I was too that's the whole point but here is the thing I left went and did something else and then returned one day totally just by coincidence to find the game playable and fun so I stayed. SO i know the CU issues as I was one of the proffs/templates that were no more. I played for 1 week after the CU came out i respected my combat medic/ pistoleer to an extremely overpowered BH that could kill anyone because he was a mess and then left. One day while cleaning my filing cabinet a couple months ago I puled out the CD's every game I had played since then had sucked maybe with the exception of eq2 but I dont much like elves or orcs so I installed it and gave it a spin. So yeah unfortunately most of us dont understand the perpetual hate. Then again i'm not much for preordering things until I can see them functioning. I wont be playing Age of Conan although to me it sounds like a solid game simply because I dont like the genre. One day stargate worlds will be released and I will try that and maybe it will replace the only game I actualy really like right now called SWG. Anyhow since I can't actualy find a reason for this 3 year old laments I have given up asking. ONe person so far has attempted to answer and thanks for that however at the same time its illogical in that its a game its not life and it is by pretty much every measuring stick out there way out of proportion. For now after trying a ton of extra games I find SWG to be the best for fun factor in my case. I hated WoW and despite what seems to be great game mechanics and artwork and a very very good engine in Age of Conan I just can't fathom playing anymore of that genre. I tried Lineage 2, ryzom (which was actualy decent but its financial problems kinda drove me away, EvE which I hated and found this out in a matter of a few hours or play, ATITD which is different but the player drama was nuts and a fwe others that I have forgotten about I'm sure. Anyhow see you try age of conan and try to like uh well get over the issue that is long dead past and over... and maybe have some fun for a change lol
I always have fun; I play SWG a few nights a week I have abgreat guild and I often enjoy myself -- I just won't lie and tell people the game is good now when it isn't, I won't lie like you do and make the insanely false claim that the game is better than it was pre-CU when it obviously is not -- I won't lie and make the false claim that the people playing the game now feel the game is better than it was then, when they clearly do not -- both in the game and on the forums. I will not lie for SOE's sake. Never have and never will.
I certainly won't elevate myself to God status as you do and claim the issue is a dead horse, nor will I make personal attacks on any side, except maybe to ridicule bad arguments such as the ones you troll here on these forums.
I may try Age of Conan, but it looks awful. I also currently play CoH/COV, WoW, enjpy them both, especially CoH since I get to play that with friends from real life that I don't get to spend enough time withdue to dostance issues, I read about five or six books concurrently (usually one novel, two history/biographies, one political book and the rest are the usual books on theology and philosopy), see movies, , the occasional concert, and many more things. This is a minor pastime of mine and most of the people who post here it is exactly the same way -- your continual attacks on the mental health of people here seems to be a sickness in and of itself.
I suggest you get over it, take your own advice, and move on.
OMG Ummax has found out the deep secret the vets have been hiding for so long... that the game was a bug ridden mess when it was released. Oh noes!!!1!1!1one1!!!
Seriously, is the best you can do is to point out something every vet already speaks openly about? Everyone knows the game was a train wreck at launch and that Sony has spent the last 5 years trying to outdo itself making the game worse. However, the original games framework, despite all the bugs and inbalances, was pure genius and very entertaining. If Sony didn't spend the entire first two years pretending to fix the game while really focusing on pushing out 3 unfinished expansions and completely rebooting the entire game twice, then maybe they could have just fixed what was wrong. People did love what was buried underneath the keystone antics of SOEs managing of the game, but everyone has their limits of what they will put up with.
July 2003 SWG was the fastest growing MMO in history.
November 2005 is was the fastest declining MMO in history.
Anyhow since I can't actualy find a reason for this 3 year old laments I have given up asking.
Somehow I doubt it. You seem to like perpetuating the debate and then trying to make *us* look bad for responding to you. That's fine with us, though, since it breaks up the usual monotony in here.
I would suggest go play Age of Conan and forget about SWG its had from what I have read a very good launch and is appearing to be a solid game. As for being upset with the CU I was too that's the whole point but here is the thing I left went and did something else and then returned one day totally just by coincidence to find the game playable and fun so I stayed. SO i know the CU issues as I was one of the proffs/templates that were no more. I played for 1 week after the CU came out i respected my combat medic/ pistoleer to an extremely overpowered BH that could kill anyone because he was a mess and then left. One day while cleaning my filing cabinet a couple months ago I puled out the CD's every game I had played since then had sucked maybe with the exception of eq2 but I dont much like elves or orcs so I installed it and gave it a spin. So yeah unfortunately most of us dont understand the perpetual hate. Then again i'm not much for preordering things until I can see them functioning. I wont be playing Age of Conan although to me it sounds like a solid game simply because I dont like the genre. One day stargate worlds will be released and I will try that and maybe it will replace the only game I actualy really like right now called SWG.
Anyhow since I can't actualy find a reason for this 3 year old laments I have given up asking. ONe person so far has attempted to answer and thanks for that however at the same time its illogical in that its a game its not life and it is by pretty much every measuring stick out there way out of proportion.
For now after trying a ton of extra games I find SWG to be the best for fun factor in my case. I hated WoW and despite what seems to be great game mechanics and artwork and a very very good engine in Age of Conan I just can't fathom playing anymore of that genre. I tried Lineage 2, ryzom (which was actualy decent but its financial problems kinda drove me away, EvE which I hated and found this out in a matter of a few hours or play, ATITD which is different but the player drama was nuts and a fwe others that I have forgotten about I'm sure.
Anyhow see you
try age of conan and try to like uh well get over the issue that is long dead past and over... and maybe have some fun for a change lol
I always have fun; I play SWG a few nights a week I have abgreat guild and I often enjoy myself -- I just won't lie and tell people the game is good now when it isn't, I won't lie like you do and make the insanely false claim that the game is better than it was pre-CU when it obviously is not -- I won't lie and make the false claim that the people playing the game now feel the game is better than it was then, when they clearly do not -- both in the game and on the forums. I will not lie for SOE's sake. Never have and never will.
I certainly won't elevate myself to God status as you do and claim the issue is a dead horse, nor will I make personal attacks on any side, except maybe to ridicule bad arguments such as the ones you troll here on these forums.
I may try Age of Conan, but it looks awful. I also currently play CoH/COV, WoW, enjpy them both, especially CoH since I get to play that with friends from real life that I don't get to spend enough time withdue to dostance issues, I read about five or six books concurrently (usually one novel, two history/biographies, one political book and the rest are the usual books on theology and philosopy), see movies, , the occasional concert, and many more things. This is a minor pastime of mine and most of the people who post here it is exactly the same way -- your continual attacks on the mental health of people here seems to be a sickness in and of itself.
I suggest you get over it, take your own advice, and move on.
Thanks for the respect evident in your post. I think I understand why some people continue to post about this and why many people don't. Well I probably understand a few of the reasons anyways.
Some of my friends who don't post about it, honestly don't want to bring up bad memories. There lack of posting isn't because they weren't hurt by things, it's actually because they felt really hurt. Other friends, didn't invest so much emotionally into the SWG world or community, so the changes were an irritation to be sure, but didn't go quite as deep.
The thing is, the impact of what happened to the virtual world and community that was SWG didn't have the same impact on every player. Many factors are related to this. Including, but not limited to:
-building a city/guild and investing a lot of time/energy/emotion into developing an online community
-investing a lot of time/energy emotion into finding/taming/training virtual pets
-buying a year's worth of subscription time based on promises or assurances that later proved false
-growing up in the 70's and having this incredible childhood experience called StarWars, that for a short time you were able to share online with like minded people across the globe
-being housebound due to surgery/injury/disability and the SWG community met a number of social/emotional needs, etc. etc.
These are just some of the factors that I'm aware impacted different players.
Anyways, I hope that makes some sense.
Also, I don't think some people's continual posting is motivated by hate. Some maybe, but certainly not all, or even most in my experience. I post on here when I need a break from paper work, or want to touch base with the SWG community outside of the game, or as I've said to try to encourage SOE and LA to reach for a higher standard, and/or to warn people if they SOE and LA seem to fall short.
I've been playing CoH with many of my former SWG guildmates, and loving it. (Actually right now I'm downloading Issue 12 wee lol). I also enjoy my family, my swimming pool, my guitar and snow-boarding
Anyways, this is mainly for ummax who seems to really want to understand other people's feelings and responses a bit better. I hope this is useful info for ya Enjoy your gaming.
Should current and former player respect one another? I think so. Former players lost their game and community. Current players are afraid to lose theirs. That's common ground for me. What I don't respect is the poor management of the StarWars Galaxies game and player communities by the parent companies. Destroying something that one target audience was invested in, then building something out of the wreckage and offering it to another target audience was an extremely divisive management strategy. It has had the exact result that a clear thinking management team would have predicted.
I am both and I am actualy tired of being slammed as a vet who decided to return to the game and actualy found it fun. That's what this post is about.
"ummax likes dummed down games better"
"ummax is not a vet because they play the game now"
'ummax must work for soe"
"ummax is an idiot"
I'm kinda tired of hearing it from people who go to the other forum from the vet forum with the same tired arguments over and over again. That and the demands for proof. So as I said before that game is gone. I liked it yes, but I like the present one too possibly even better to be honest as I find more and more content and things to do when I dont want to pvp. I actualy experience far less bugs then I did back then. Many people complain of rubber banding even those I am playing with and I hate to say it I think its associated to their ISP and not sony because well I dont rubber band. I remember I used to /sit on the floor in the med center (i was a combat medic trying to level up) and one minute I would be on one end of the med center and another minute I will visibly slide across the floor to the other end of the room. That stuff is gone. I hate that this was brought to this subforum as I try to stay out of here to be honest lol its like going into a den of wolves at times so I rarely post in this forum and have said like 2 things in this forum. Anyhow to me its over I truly don't understand how you can become embroiled in the fabric of a game to mourn its loss for three years and twist every single thing to your point of view even if it is in fact the opposite. Here is the bottom line if I have made a generalization its a generalization about vets using this forum not about vets "in general" because I play with many vets and I am a vet. My generalization is this. There is a small fraction of the SWG community that has become somehow married to the old version of the game and well the divorce was long over. I dont know how else to say it, but yeah I have come to a conclusion about vets who use this forum and it is that they can't let go. Not all vets are like that in fact I would say most are NOT like that. Only the ones that use this forum and continually post about "then and now" and how much better it was after such a long time. As I said I dont think either version is better then the other and if any version is better its possibly the present one. In the end though it does not matter one Iota its just a game and if you dont like it after 3 years its time to pick up another one or get a different hobby. Model plains or cars or play darts or something.. I dunno /shrugs
For what its worth man its cool with me at least that you like the game, just dont exspect everyone to like it.
I for one do not play $OE games at all anymore.....
you may say im missing out but im not im speaking with my money, and they will never get a dime from me ever again.....
Yep! You are definitely correct. Here is what I see...the hatred and distrust that the SWG Vets have for SOE and the current SWG game isn't because they have a blind devotion to Pre-CU. It is because the company decided that their established customer base and game wasn't good enough! And so they gutted the game with hardly any notice, even while selling versions of ToW with features that wouldn't exist after the NGE went live! So its not just Pre-CU was better than CUNGE that is the rally cry of the Vets! It's that SONY shouldn't be trusted as developer and distrubtor of MMO's!
"PEOPLE see WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE" Yep! You are definitely correct. Here is what I see...the hatred and distrust that the SWG Vets have for SOE and the current SWG game isn't because they have a blind devotion to Pre-CU. It is because the company decided that their established customer base and game wasn't good enough! And so they gutted the game with hardly any notice, even while selling versions of ToW with features that wouldn't exist after the NGE went live! So its not just Pre-CU was better than CUNGE that is the rally cry of the Vets! It's that SONY shouldn't be trusted as developer and distrubtor of MMO's!
Comments
Did we bitch and moan about bugs? Yepper. What did we say about them? Fix them. Did we say kill off the majority of the professions, the game mechanics and inflict upon us a mess of new bugs? Nope. No mmo in the world is ever going to repeat such an epic attempt at failure to listen to their playerbase mainly due to Sony's catastrophic intended errors.
And as for your guild slowly dropping off - I agree. It was a trickle du to SOE not fixing bugs and not adding content. However, its been an exodus on the scale of a river since they implemented the craptastic NGE.
And that was just the combat side of things. Entertainers were gutted to near-worthlessness by removing most of their in-game purpose. Crafting was severely dumbed-down. A "good low-level weapon" became an oxymoron. Food buffs became pretty pointless, many having the same effects and the ability to mix-n-match mostly gone. Medical crafting was devastated, and a good chunk of the organics-supply economy with it. Many players quit over that, and at least one website devoted to SWG medical crafting died as soon as CU went live.
I am both and I am actualy tired of being slammed as a vet who decided to return to the game and actualy found it fun. That's what this post is about.
"ummax likes dummed down games better"
"ummax is not a vet because they play the game now"
'ummax must work for soe"
"ummax is an idiot"
I'm kinda tired of hearing it from people who go to the other forum from the vet forum with the same tired arguments over and over again. That and the demands for proof. So as I said before that game is gone. I liked it yes, but I like the present one too possibly even better to be honest as I find more and more content and things to do when I dont want to pvp. I actualy experience far less bugs then I did back then. Many people complain of rubber banding even those I am playing with and I hate to say it I think its associated to their ISP and not sony because well I dont rubber band. I remember I used to /sit on the floor in the med center (i was a combat medic trying to level up) and one minute I would be on one end of the med center and another minute I will visibly slide across the floor to the other end of the room. That stuff is gone. I hate that this was brought to this subforum as I try to stay out of here to be honest lol its like going into a den of wolves at times so I rarely post in this forum and have said like 2 things in this forum. Anyhow to me its over I truly don't understand how you can become embroiled in the fabric of a game to mourn its loss for three years and twist every single thing to your point of view even if it is in fact the opposite. Here is the bottom line if I have made a generalization its a generalization about vets using this forum not about vets "in general" because I play with many vets and I am a vet. My generalization is this. There is a small fraction of the SWG community that has become somehow married to the old version of the game and well the divorce was long over. I dont know how else to say it, but yeah I have come to a conclusion about vets who use this forum and it is that they can't let go. Not all vets are like that in fact I would say most are NOT like that. Only the ones that use this forum and continually post about "then and now" and how much better it was after such a long time. As I said I dont think either version is better then the other and if any version is better its possibly the present one. In the end though it does not matter one Iota its just a game and if you dont like it after 3 years its time to pick up another one or get a different hobby. Model plains or cars or play darts or something.. I dunno /shrugs
I don't think you're an idiot, so let me just put that out there for starters. I also respect your choice to play SWG. A few of my good friends also still play it. Anytime SOE fixes, restores or adds something, I'm happy for these friends of mine. I'd be happier if a really polished StarWars MMO was offerend by a highly reputable service provider, but that's another post.I suppose some people may talk about issues because they haven't let go of the game and/or communty. Grief looks different for people, and sometimes takes longer for some than others. In my experience, however, many people have let go of the game. They post to correct what they see as revisions of history that deny their experience. I plan to respond to one of those shortly, as a matter of fact.
People have lots of reasons to post from wanting to hold SOE and LA to a higher standard, to wanting to warn people about how players have been treated by them. I can understand that and sometimes share those motivations. If SOE and LA promised to make fixing collision detection a priority, which they did, and it's still not fixed, which it isn't, well I think consumer's have a right to know that. If Smed promised to fast track server mergers, which he did, and they haven't happened, again people have a right to know. If SOE took sub fees from people for the ToOW, which they did, and then borked the expansion and kept the sub fees, once again, people have a right to know. The message here is, if you deal with SOE and LA in this game, this is what we experienced, and you may be treated the same way. We'd like to spare you some suffering if possible.
In all of these instance, I think people have "let go" of the game so to speak. What they may have grabbed onto is a desire for a higher standard of service in this MMO and a desire to spare people a lot of frustration and disappointment.
The conclusion is that when it came out it was the first starwars mmo and the only starwars mmo, so people flocked to it, it had bad reviews then and was a mess some people left, and some people stayed and got used to it as the broken crap it was, and when it changed to the cu the balance and all the fixes and making it the way it should have been threw everyonwe off as sudden as it happened, it is much better play wise than it was before, we were just used to it being broke and buggy and exploitable so it became the norm and a change from a persons normal state whether they are used to it being broke or wrong, it feels comfortable, and fixing the game needed a complete overhaul to fix and this disturbed many peoples comfort zone they had with the game, that being after a year of playing a broke junky game we came comfortable with and it being the only starwars mmo is what flocked so many people at first, the people were slowly dropping off pre-cu/nge i seen my guild dwindle way before cu/nge.
This post reminds me so much of Julio's claims that people were so upset about the NGE because people are simply resistant to change, even if it's for the better. People's general resistance to change is completely irrelelvant to the NGE, and here's why:People were upset not because of change, but because they were knowlingly misled. They were just promised revamps for a number of professions, and new creatures on a new planet to tame. They purchased an expansion and many purchased additional subscription time to play it. Immediately after the payment for the expansion was accepted, the revamped professions were ALL deleted, as was the profession that could tame the creatures. People weren't upset about change in general, they were upset that they just paid for something and then had it deleted out from under them. They were more upset when they found out that this plan had been in the works for some time, and yet SOE and LA both chose not to inform people until after they took people's cash. This was simply outrageous. If you add to that the negating of all progress on unlocking jedi, the removal of pets, and the breaking of all core game systems, including chat, movement and combat, you'll get a much more accurate picture of why people were truly upset.
To say that people were upset because they don't like change, ignores all of the real reasons for their outrage. It's an attempt to revise history in such a way that all contact with reality must be abandoned.
And that was just the combat side of things. Entertainers were gutted to near-worthlessness by removing most of their in-game purpose. Crafting was severely dumbed-down. A "good low-level weapon" became an oxymoron. Food buffs became pretty pointless, many having the same effects and the ability to mix-n-match mostly gone. Medical crafting was devastated, and a good chunk of the organics-supply economy with it. Many players quit over that, and at least one website devoted to SWG medical crafting died as soon as CU went live.
And here you have a good summary of the actual reasons people were upset about the CU. Not to mention the testing process during which SOE ignored feedback from most of the players pointing out all of these negative impacts as well as all of the new bugs that were being introduced.In fact, people were asking for change, and working collaboratively with devs to fix the bugs and issues of the original game format. It appeared as though all of this collaborative work towards positive change was flushed down the crapper when some management people decided to copy an competitior's product, copy it quickly, and copy it poorly.
If the positive changes being worked on would have been implemented, then yes you would have seen some people uncomfortable with change in general, but you would have seen many more who appreciated a better functioning game. SOE and LA abandoned this course quite intentionally, and you've seen the impact their decisions have had. People aren't going to sit silently and allow you to deny reality in an attempt to justify SOE and LA's horrible management of their game and treatment of their players.
This post reminds me so much of Julio's claims that people were so upset about the NGE because people are simply resistant to change, even if it's for the better. People's general resistance to change is completely irrelelvant to the NGE, and here's why:
People were upset not because of change, but because they were knowlingly misled. They were just promised revamps for a number of professions, and new creatures on a new planet to tame. They purchased an expansion and many purchased additional subscription time to play it. Immediately after the payment for the expansion was accepted, the revamped professions were ALL deleted, as was the profession that could tame the creatures. People weren't upset about change in general, they were upset that they just paid for something and then had it deleted out from under them. They were more upset when they found out that this plan had been in the works for some time, and yet SOE and LA both chose not to inform people until after they took people's cash. This was simply outrageous. If you add to that the negating of all progress on unlocking jedi, the removal of pets, and the breaking of all core game systems, including chat, movement and combat, you'll get a much more accurate picture of why people were truly upset.
To say that people were upset because they don't like change, ignores all of the real reasons for their outrage. It's an attempt to revise history in such a way that all contact with reality must be abandoned.
People aren't resistant to change; they are resistant to being screwed. Give a man a million bucks, few will be resistant to this change; lie to man and convince him to pay for the destruction of his own virtual world, and he will resist.
People LOVE change if it is good for them; they hate being lied to and when that change is against them.
To say that people don't like change is to completely, misread, and misunderstand human nature, which is exactly what SOE did.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I would suggest go play Age of Conan and forget about SWG its had from what I have read a very good launch and is appearing to be a solid game. As for being upset with the CU I was too that's the whole point but here is the thing I left went and did something else and then returned one day totally just by coincidence to find the game playable and fun so I stayed. SO i know the CU issues as I was one of the proffs/templates that were no more. I played for 1 week after the CU came out i respected my combat medic/ pistoleer to an extremely overpowered BH that could kill anyone because he was a mess and then left. One day while cleaning my filing cabinet a couple months ago I puled out the CD's every game I had played since then had sucked maybe with the exception of eq2 but I dont much like elves or orcs so I installed it and gave it a spin. So yeah unfortunately most of us dont understand the perpetual hate. Then again i'm not much for preordering things until I can see them functioning. I wont be playing Age of Conan although to me it sounds like a solid game simply because I dont like the genre. One day stargate worlds will be released and I will try that and maybe it will replace the only game I actualy really like right now called SWG.
Anyhow since I can't actualy find a reason for this 3 year old laments I have given up asking. ONe person so far has attempted to answer and thanks for that however at the same time its illogical in that its a game its not life and it is by pretty much every measuring stick out there way out of proportion.
For now after trying a ton of extra games I find SWG to be the best for fun factor in my case. I hated WoW and despite what seems to be great game mechanics and artwork and a very very good engine in Age of Conan I just can't fathom playing anymore of that genre. I tried Lineage 2, ryzom (which was actualy decent but its financial problems kinda drove me away, EvE which I hated and found this out in a matter of a few hours or play, ATITD which is different but the player drama was nuts and a fwe others that I have forgotten about I'm sure.
Anyhow see you
try age of conan and try to like uh well get over the issue that is long dead past and over... and maybe have some fun for a change lol
I always have fun; I play SWG a few nights a week I have abgreat guild and I often enjoy myself -- I just won't lie and tell people the game is good now when it isn't, I won't lie like you do and make the insanely false claim that the game is better than it was pre-CU when it obviously is not -- I won't lie and make the false claim that the people playing the game now feel the game is better than it was then, when they clearly do not -- both in the game and on the forums. I will not lie for SOE's sake. Never have and never will.
I certainly won't elevate myself to God status as you do and claim the issue is a dead horse, nor will I make personal attacks on any side, except maybe to ridicule bad arguments such as the ones you troll here on these forums.
I may try Age of Conan, but it looks awful. I also currently play CoH/COV, WoW, enjpy them both, especially CoH since I get to play that with friends from real life that I don't get to spend enough time withdue to dostance issues, I read about five or six books concurrently (usually one novel, two history/biographies, one political book and the rest are the usual books on theology and philosopy), see movies, , the occasional concert, and many more things. This is a minor pastime of mine and most of the people who post here it is exactly the same way -- your continual attacks on the mental health of people here seems to be a sickness in and of itself.
I suggest you get over it, take your own advice, and move on.
fishermage.blogspot.com
OMG Ummax has found out the deep secret the vets have been hiding for so long... that the game was a bug ridden mess when it was released. Oh noes!!!1!1!1one1!!!
Seriously, is the best you can do is to point out something every vet already speaks openly about? Everyone knows the game was a train wreck at launch and that Sony has spent the last 5 years trying to outdo itself making the game worse. However, the original games framework, despite all the bugs and inbalances, was pure genius and very entertaining. If Sony didn't spend the entire first two years pretending to fix the game while really focusing on pushing out 3 unfinished expansions and completely rebooting the entire game twice, then maybe they could have just fixed what was wrong. People did love what was buried underneath the keystone antics of SOEs managing of the game, but everyone has their limits of what they will put up with.
July 2003 SWG was the fastest growing MMO in history.
November 2005 is was the fastest declining MMO in history.
Need I say more.
Somehow I doubt it. You seem to like perpetuating the debate and then trying to make *us* look bad for responding to you. That's fine with us, though, since it breaks up the usual monotony in here.
I always have fun; I play SWG a few nights a week I have abgreat guild and I often enjoy myself -- I just won't lie and tell people the game is good now when it isn't, I won't lie like you do and make the insanely false claim that the game is better than it was pre-CU when it obviously is not -- I won't lie and make the false claim that the people playing the game now feel the game is better than it was then, when they clearly do not -- both in the game and on the forums. I will not lie for SOE's sake. Never have and never will.
I certainly won't elevate myself to God status as you do and claim the issue is a dead horse, nor will I make personal attacks on any side, except maybe to ridicule bad arguments such as the ones you troll here on these forums.
I may try Age of Conan, but it looks awful. I also currently play CoH/COV, WoW, enjpy them both, especially CoH since I get to play that with friends from real life that I don't get to spend enough time withdue to dostance issues, I read about five or six books concurrently (usually one novel, two history/biographies, one political book and the rest are the usual books on theology and philosopy), see movies, , the occasional concert, and many more things. This is a minor pastime of mine and most of the people who post here it is exactly the same way -- your continual attacks on the mental health of people here seems to be a sickness in and of itself.
I suggest you get over it, take your own advice, and move on.
Thanks for the respect evident in your post. I think I understand why some people continue to post about this and why many people don't. Well I probably understand a few of the reasons anyways.
Some of my friends who don't post about it, honestly don't want to bring up bad memories. There lack of posting isn't because they weren't hurt by things, it's actually because they felt really hurt. Other friends, didn't invest so much emotionally into the SWG world or community, so the changes were an irritation to be sure, but didn't go quite as deep.
The thing is, the impact of what happened to the virtual world and community that was SWG didn't have the same impact on every player. Many factors are related to this. Including, but not limited to:
-building a city/guild and investing a lot of time/energy/emotion into developing an online community
-investing a lot of time/energy emotion into finding/taming/training virtual pets
-buying a year's worth of subscription time based on promises or assurances that later proved false
-growing up in the 70's and having this incredible childhood experience called StarWars, that for a short time you were able to share online with like minded people across the globe
-being housebound due to surgery/injury/disability and the SWG community met a number of social/emotional needs, etc. etc.
These are just some of the factors that I'm aware impacted different players.
Anyways, I hope that makes some sense.
Also, I don't think some people's continual posting is motivated by hate. Some maybe, but certainly not all, or even most in my experience. I post on here when I need a break from paper work, or want to touch base with the SWG community outside of the game, or as I've said to try to encourage SOE and LA to reach for a higher standard, and/or to warn people if they SOE and LA seem to fall short.
I've been playing CoH with many of my former SWG guildmates, and loving it. (Actually right now I'm downloading Issue 12 wee lol). I also enjoy my family, my swimming pool, my guitar and snow-boarding
Anyways, this is mainly for ummax who seems to really want to understand other people's feelings and responses a bit better. I hope this is useful info for ya
Enjoy your gaming.
I am both and I am actualy tired of being slammed as a vet who decided to return to the game and actualy found it fun. That's what this post is about.
"ummax likes dummed down games better"
"ummax is not a vet because they play the game now"
'ummax must work for soe"
"ummax is an idiot"
I'm kinda tired of hearing it from people who go to the other forum from the vet forum with the same tired arguments over and over again. That and the demands for proof. So as I said before that game is gone. I liked it yes, but I like the present one too possibly even better to be honest as I find more and more content and things to do when I dont want to pvp. I actualy experience far less bugs then I did back then. Many people complain of rubber banding even those I am playing with and I hate to say it I think its associated to their ISP and not sony because well I dont rubber band. I remember I used to /sit on the floor in the med center (i was a combat medic trying to level up) and one minute I would be on one end of the med center and another minute I will visibly slide across the floor to the other end of the room. That stuff is gone. I hate that this was brought to this subforum as I try to stay out of here to be honest lol its like going into a den of wolves at times so I rarely post in this forum and have said like 2 things in this forum. Anyhow to me its over I truly don't understand how you can become embroiled in the fabric of a game to mourn its loss for three years and twist every single thing to your point of view even if it is in fact the opposite. Here is the bottom line if I have made a generalization its a generalization about vets using this forum not about vets "in general" because I play with many vets and I am a vet. My generalization is this. There is a small fraction of the SWG community that has become somehow married to the old version of the game and well the divorce was long over. I dont know how else to say it, but yeah I have come to a conclusion about vets who use this forum and it is that they can't let go. Not all vets are like that in fact I would say most are NOT like that. Only the ones that use this forum and continually post about "then and now" and how much better it was after such a long time. As I said I dont think either version is better then the other and if any version is better its possibly the present one. In the end though it does not matter one Iota its just a game and if you dont like it after 3 years its time to pick up another one or get a different hobby. Model plains or cars or play darts or something.. I dunno /shrugs
For what its worth man its cool with me at least that you like the game, just dont exspect everyone to like it.I for one do not play $OE games at all anymore.....
you may say im missing out but im not im speaking with my money, and they will never get a dime from me ever again.....
"PEOPLE see WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE"
Yep! You are definitely correct. Here is what I see...the hatred and distrust that the SWG Vets have for SOE and the current SWG game isn't because they have a blind devotion to Pre-CU. It is because the company decided that their established customer base and game wasn't good enough! And so they gutted the game with hardly any notice, even while selling versions of ToW with features that wouldn't exist after the NGE went live! So its not just Pre-CU was better than CUNGE that is the rally cry of the Vets! It's that SONY shouldn't be trusted as developer and distrubtor of MMO's!
you Sir are correct