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WoW and WAR. A detailed comparison.
vanza001
Member Posts: 8
There has been way too much comparing of WoW to WAR on this site and I'm posting this here for reference for anyone who wishes to really learn the specifics of WAR's relationship to WoW.
FIRST WoW != Warcraft and WAR != Warhammer. Many people are getting confused because people call WAR a WoW clone and then people try to explain how Warhammer came first. These are separate issues.
I. The Intellectual Property:
Warhammer came before Warcraft. Back in the 80's there was this little talented game studio called Blizzard. They wanted to make a RTS game. They knew that the biggest and best IP for a fantasy RTS would be Warhammer. At that time it had been around for 10-15 years and was very sucessful among nerds like us. The deal with Games Workshop fell through and Blizzard changed the IP only slightly because development had already started. Warcraft has been a great IP for them over the years and has grown into its own thing to be sure. Warcraft is NOT Warhammer however. It is not as deep it is not as old and it is not as cool (my opinion anyway).
II. The MMO:
WoW is the biggest selling and most successful MMO in history and could probably be described as the most successful video game period. WoW took the MMO and added Blizzards awesome propensity to polish. Everything was polished to the quality that a single player game expected and THIS was really what took WoW to the next level. Not only did they have the resources to build this massive world and art but also polished the gameplay and whatnot like only a really experienced game developer could.
Every single game being released or developed now is studying WoW very heavily. This is a business and if someone is doing heads and shoulders better than everyone else you take some lessons from them.
Let’s go over the different gameplay elements of these games for comparison. Here are what I think are what any MMO has that really determine how the MMO really plays.
World Geography (and graphics), PvE, PvP, Crafting, Character Development and End Game.
a) Word Geography:
WoW had a persistent, non-instanced open world, like many before them. WoW filled these areas with much content which is a key to its success. Not many areas with no content. Dungeons were almost universally completely instanced. Every dungeon required a group or raid to do. This required planning and facilitated guilds and the end game that eventually developed. It was not quick or effective to form a pick up group for this content, thus further facilitating guilds.
WAR has a persistent, non-instanced open world, like WoW and many before it. WAR will be filling these areas with much content as well. Here is where the similarities end. A new concept called Public Quests really sets WAR apart. Public Quests will make these open public areas much more group oriented without creating an instance and removing people from the world. All players will be involved in the same quest in an area should they wish to participate. The lore of the world and the story of the political climate will be expressed to the player in a much more visceral way. Also WARs dungeons are not completely instanced. Only small single to double group instances for the bosses. HUGE DIFFERENCE than 40 person raids.
Also WAR's geography will play a significant role in the Tome of Knowledge. Instead of getting a small amount of XP when you enter an area for the first time (like in WoW) you will actually unlock entire chapters in your Tome of Knowledge about the different areas and beasts you encounter. You can reference these chapters at any time and in the Tome you will find many things to accomplish in an area other than just stepping foot into it. While similar in concept WAR takes it beyond anything any WoW player has ever seen.
WAR looks very similar to WoW graphically. This is because Warcraft, the intellectual property, is based on Warhammer's intellectual property. So Warhammer’s game logically will look similar to WoW. Don't judge a book on its cover.
b) PvE:
WoW was all about PvE and it did a pretty damn good job of it. Classes were created with this playstyle in mind. Balancing entire groups of players against raid encounters was Blizzards primary focus. WoW's combat system is a target and activate style ability system.
WAR also has a target and activate style ability system, however, WARs classes are created with RvR in mind. Classes are not balanced against raid encounters, but against the other side. If an ability is not useful in both PvE and PvP it is not included. This is a HUGE difference. You cannot make classes for PvE and expect them to work well and be fun, across the board, for PvP as well, however, you can make a class fun against people and it will be affective against AI.
Along with the combat system, PvE has a lot to do with world content. Like I mentioned above WoW has done wonderful things with world content and polish. WAR will be no exception. Public Quests and the Tome of Knowledge will be mountains of content to explore along with the typical NPC quests.
c) PvP:
WoW was terrible for PvP as it was tacked on and worthless. The classes were not created with PvP in mind. The item economy was not created with PvP in mind. This part of WAR has no real similarities at all to WoW. WAR PvP comes directly from Mythic's previous MMO DAoC but it is much more a part of the world than in DAoC. Every level 1-40, will have RvR areas and players will be frequently asked to participate through Tome and world content.
There is nothing similar to capturing the enemies’ capital city in WoW.
d) Crafting.
Not much is known about WAR crafting. We know that we won't be crafting everything. If it is not of use to players regularly we probably won't be crafting it. Potions, Upgrades, etc. will probably be the entire focus of the crafting system. This comes from WoW in some ways because in WoW not everything that could be crafted was worthwhile to other players at all. They do not want this in WAR, anything you can craft should be either components of other stuff or stuff that is actually useful when participating in RvR. Crafting will focus on supplementing or upgrading a character, not equipping him completely.
e) Character Development:
WoW and WAR and basically every MMO since EQ has a very similar character progression. You earn XP and gain abilities over time. WoW gave you upgrades to the same abilities. WAR will not. You will only get an ability once, but its effectiveness will scale so you will still use it 40 levels later. WAR also has two different sets of abilities known as Moral and Tactics. Moral abilities are extra powerful abilities that can only be used once you've been in a fight for a bit. WAR will also have things called Tactics which will provide a wide range of bonuses and can be swapped out before the fight depending on your situation.
Most importantly here is that WAR has a smaller leveling curve. Max level of 40. And no plans to raise the level cap because that would really break the balance of the tier 4 RvR which is the main goal of both sides and subsequently all persons on a server. This is far more casual friendly and facilitates activity in the tier 4 RvR game.
f) End Game:
This leads us directly into the end game. This is where WAR really stands out. The point of this game is not PvE. It is not character development. It is not equipment (through high end raids). This point of this game is to vanquish your enemies in RvR combat and to pillage and loot their capital cities. There will be no raid schedules, no doing the same content over and over for a drop, just RvR. End Game PvE will be similar to PvE throughout the game. Dungeons will be non-instanced until the boss or sub-boss'. Crafting will be used to supplement a character, not equip him completely so crafters should find more to do at the end game.
III: Conclusion
WAR may look like WoW and if you just glanced at it you might want to write it off because none of us want another WoW, we still have that. However, WAR is the culmination of the best ideas from a variety of successful MMOs including DAoC, WoW, and UO most heavily. All video games take what's been done and do it better. They take what they've learned and make perceived improvements. WAR is definitely an MMO and thus will no doubt have many things in common with the dominant game in the industry. It would be stupid to create a game after WoW that didn't learn from its success but WAR IS NOT a clone of WoW. They only look similar because of the similarities in the intellectual property which is all because one was based off of the other. The games are really night and day.
Comments
epic fail yay....we really don't want and or need more comparison supposed threads for or against either side of the argument there's already X billion of them.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Thanks for the comparison. I knew much of the past between the two IPs but still great to see it listed in regards to WAR and WoW.
Why do you want to compare 2 different games? One isn't even out yet and you already want to compare them? Its freaking pointless. Play the game that you have the most fun in when WAR is released. Man the WOW FANBOYS and ANTI WOW FANBOYS need to give it a rest. WAR IS 5+ MONTHS OFF so wait till then to get jealous or cry or whatever.
Threads like this make me want to puke and never visit MMORPG.com again.
Oh and:
- AoC vs WAR
- Darkfall will/won't come out
- Such-and-such is the next WoW killer
That's all that comes to mind.
It's people like you who make this place suck. I am posting a well thought out and thorough thread to calmly provide the facts on the topic. This place just blindly falls into chaos because of all the fanbois who just want to vomit their opinion onto others without even considering anything. I've provided the facts and actually done so unbiasedly as I played and enjoyed most things about WoW.
If you would have even paid attention to the beginning of my post this thread is because MANY MANY others say WAR = WoW clone and of course at that point any respectable thread falls into chaos.
OP did you make up this Blizzard was around in the 80's part? They didn't exist in the 80's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment
Games Workshop came around in the 70's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_Workshop
What galls me the most is people still think WoW is the most popular and best selling MMO...
Lineage = 25million active and playing accounts
Lineage 2 = 12 million active and playing accounts
fnuh... I may aswell bang my head against the wall...
Not to mention Warhammers 25th birthday just last month...
There is no need to compare the games. On one hand you have Warhammer, obviously a different name then World of Warcraft. Therefore we have two different games period. The only reason they look similar is because of how their graphics are based, thats basicaly it. Its like saying AOC looks alot like Vanguard. Does that mean they are the same game with the same concepts? Absolutely not. If someone posts that WAR and WoW are the same game, they need to quit playing MMO's in general and stick to consoles...at least those are easier to follow and have less delays lawl. More importantly every MMO game is not truely judged on graphics alone mostly the concepts that it offers the gamers. I would play a game that has a better Gameplay value then one with better graphics anyday.
Your numbers are completely and utterly wrong. The most any Lineage had playing at one time was 5-6 million. There are numerous charts and numbers showing this.
Your numbers are completely and utterly wrong. The most any Lineage had playing at one time was 5-6 million. There are numerous charts and numbers showing this.
none of which include any of the Asian player base and none of which are by any means officialGood post Vanza! Nice to see an intellectual take on this seemingly ages-old feud.
Perhaps, but after seeing comparisons between both MMOs just because they're vaguely similar gets stomach-turning after the millionth time.. especially the 'Warcraft ripped off the Warhammer IP' line.
The people who troll the WAR forums because 'it's a WoW-clone' will continue to troll and other people will counter with threads about how it's not. Some will be longer than others - this being a longer one.
And so it continues
The funny part is are the WoW clone callers only point to the graphical art style. They don't consider to look deeper than that or the fact it has a quest system. I'm guessing they look at books and judge them by their cover art as well.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I've been playing games since the early 80's and graphics mean nothing to me! Actually I prefer the 2D sprite based look! Course its what I grew up on and will always love more, but todays 3D models just don't cut many times...the animations and looks are way off and there is so much clipping of equipment makes it even worse many times.
In the past my generation of gaming was all about the systems and depth of a game, and primarily all about how great of a story it had. Which most times were incredibly written and executed! Today still, you have to play an older art style to find a good story. All these new fangled graphics and styles many times take so long to create and make them flow somewhat ok takes to much time and the everything else ends up getting too little attention and suffers as well!
Considering most MMO gamers I've been around don't even read the quest text and only look at the highlighted part near that end that says kill x, or collect y, then screams in open chat where to go...I doubt they even look at the cover of a book.
Not to mention Warhammers 25th birthday just last month...
Enh yeah, the decades blur together at my age.
Really good post. I wish their was a place to put things like this where anyone who wants to learn and find out the difference about games and going into greater detail. Everyone that thinks WAR is a WoW are clones don't bother to read into WAR and wouldn't take the time to read a longer post like this sadly.
But there are people out their that just love games and don't hate other games based on stupid reasons and really want to learn about them. I would like to see this done with people that think AoC is a WoW clone and many other games. And with a lot more facts, such as : Games Workshop were the first people to make Orcs green.
I think what the MMO community really needs is education about the history of the MMO, and why somethings are used most games.
The arena put the final nail in WoW's PvP coffin. This is something that WAR needs to avoid at all costs if it wants to offer the same thrills that DAoC did with RvR.
Arena sucks. Yay i can fight with 4 other people against 5 whole guys! I want to fight a war, not be a gladiator. I enjoyed my time with WoW, but i never had more fun in that game then before they put "real" pvp in the game and we raided cities for fun.
To Zorndorf , Did you completely miss where he said "WoW was terrible for PvP as it was tacked on and worthless. The classes were not created with PvP in mind. The item economy was not created with PvP in mind." He says that there IS pvp but the game was not made with it in mind. Therefore when they put it in the game a few months later after release the classes were not made for it and no blanced. WoW can give out $200,000 rewards because blizzard as this type of money. And imo it's something to get more people to play the game and to stay with WoW since we have so many new MMOs coming out this year.
Read the whole post before you comment on it next time.
You should be glad WAR is getting released, otherwise WoW would never have sieges and the likes (if anyone is going to play in them, the Outlands control PvP points were not really contested at all). If Arena is where all the gear and upgrade (aka WoW character progression) are coming from, WoW might as well not implement world PvP.
Sieges have ALWAYS been in mind with making Warhammer online. It was part of the Warhammer tabletop game and was always was meant to be put in Warhammer online.
WoW pvp sucks..what little World PvP areas they have are rarely used because they have no real impact on the world ever..not even the expansion's World PvP will have a real impact. Most people will farm for their Hero class and thats it.
WAR has siege weaponry...lots of it...it wouldn't make sense to have 'ridable' seige weapons...It would mean everyone would forgo the siege pads and there's be 200 to 300 siege weapons and it'd all be about who's side can by the most and survive the impending lag.
WoW's PvP has always been lame and will remain so as long as its reason for existance is a gear grind. WAR's PvP is alla bout glory and smacking the otherside down a few pegs by sacking their home city.
Screw WoW and screw its hardcore supporters.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!