After spending 2.5 years on WoW , on both alliance and horde faction, both hardcore and casual, i believe that Blizzard has to come up with something new.
IF WotLK will be similar to TBC (just new continent, +10level and few more features), i think WoW will lose a big part of its subscribers.
I didnt like the old honor system when people had to play for about 15 hours a day to become grand marshal cause i wanted a way that really skilled people get the Rank14.
But the honor system Blizzard came up with was A LOT worse, not better.
At least the old days we were playing the game, now we only see bots,game sellers and the end-pve
items are not worth, since they cannot be used in PvP cause the lack of the resilience and the PvP items are just too damn easy to get.
And ofc the whole warcraft myth , has no depth and is useless with CONSTANT FARMING and boring quests, who have no point.
WoW was really fun at start, were a bit less fun and addiction at mid but now is boring and pointless.
If Blizzard doesnt make drastic changes with WotLK , Wow will die in some months (not more than a year) after WotLK's release.
all the players. With all these bots u cant really get the full fun of the game anymore. From everything u read that was , what bothered u? ffs....
But I thought they were all bots? You make it sound like every game is full of bots, so I was just wondering who it was that was seeing all the bots? I don't think the bots see the other bots, or perhaps they do. Perhaps the bots are so smart now, they have become self aware. Whoa, I'm starting to see what that movie terminator was all about.
I play BG's all the time and I rarely see anything that I think is a bot. I often carry on conversations with many of the people I'm playing with in BG's. If they are botting, they sure have some pretty sophisticated bots working there. Hell I even from time to time get into arguments in BG's with other players. You think those are bots too? You seem to see them all the time and yet I almost never seem to see them. How can this be? One of us has to be wrong. Either there are tons of bots and I'm carrying on conversations with them or there aren't as many as you claim there are.
ffs... What does this mean anyway? No, I know what it means, what I mean is why did you put it on the end of your post? Is this suppose to somehow stress your point? Or maybe you just don't like being questioned? You do realize that when you post on an open forum that other people have the right to question your posts, right?
I left WoW again a couple months ago. On the all the servers I have played the community was worse than any other mmo I have played. I agree the sheer size of the player base is probably the reason the community is lacking. There are some great people that play but the chat channels often have to be turned off do to the overflow of jerks. To me the game was too raid centric and the cast majority of raiders I encountered were not people I would like to play with as they were too hardcore and rude. Personally would love to see 5 man versions of all the raid dungeons even with a reduced loot table. I don't really care if i have the best loot available to me its a game I want to have fun, meet some interesting people and explore the virtual world I don't need to tie my life into the game to feel good about myself. I have actually had raiders in WoW tell me to lock my damn kids up in their room so I could raid and that I needed to get my priorities straight. This is the only game I have ever had that happen on. Some gamers need to realize not everyone lives for the game some of us have families, careers and civic obligations that don't give us the luxury of playing more than 10 hours a week at best. All I really want is a little common decency and give me a chance to see the final areas without raiding. I don't even care if it is just cash and blue drops just along for the story.
all the players. With all these bots u cant really get the full fun of the game anymore. From everything u read that was , what bothered u? ffs....
But I thought they were all bots? You make it sound like every game is full of bots, so I was just wondering who it was that was seeing all the bots? I don't think the bots see the other bots, or perhaps they do. Perhaps the bots are so smart now, they have become self aware. Whoa, I'm starting to see what that movie terminator was all about.
I play BG's all the time and I rarely see anything that I think is a bot. I often carry on conversations with many of the people I'm playing with in BG's. If they are botting, they sure have some pretty sophisticated bots working there. Hell I even from time to time get into arguments in BG's with other players. You think those are bots too? You seem to see them all the time and yet I almost never seem to see them. How can this be? One of us has to be wrong. Either there are tons of bots and I'm carrying on conversations with them or there aren't as many as you claim there are.
ffs... What does this mean anyway? No, I know what it means, what I mean is why did you put it on the end of your post? Is this suppose to somehow stress your point? Or maybe you just don't like being questioned? You do realize that when you post on an open forum that other people have the right to question your posts, right?
I have played on 3 different servers for over 4 months on each.
On each server the last year i came across to bots in BG.
If there are 40 people per side in an alterac valley at least 10 of them are bots or are not playing at all and are afk the whole BG.
And at late night i have come across to more than 25 afk'ers and bot in a single AV.
We were 40 people and there were 25 people with 0 kills, deaths. healing done, dmg done , for over 30 minutes.
That means that they are bots or they are afk.
If u havent seen any bots and afkers around , u must be on a miracle server or u must be blind.
Anyway we both made our point here, better see what the rest of people say about these issues as well, i am sure they will prove one of us wrong .
Tbh i dont get what u are saying here. You seem to care more about how i express what i want to say and not what i really am saying.
Yes, my english may not be the best, but i think they are understanable and u get my point....
Anyway, u can question posts (that's why we are here anyway) and i will try answering them
Members of the jury, the prosecution contends that WoW thru malicious intent has produced a fan base that is ripe with immature players, yet they have no evidence to back this up.
Community rating of WoW at mmorpg.com, one of the lowest at 6.7. This is made up of many people's ratings and impressions of playing the game which comes up with an average versus other people playing other games.
It should be noted that other mmorpgs don't have miraculous ratings like 9.0- this does indicate there are asshats in every mmo- but a lower relative rating than other mmos suggest people's impressions of the game community of WoW is perhaps not so great. Though, I think it may or may not do better than Guild Wars which is made up of many people enticed by the non-subscription fee.(the f2p mmorpg community)
I basically just say what I personally like or don't like and avoid the "good/bad" deal. I no longer play WoW. The only other game I seriously played was SWG-preCU. I liked WoW's polish... things worked well with few bugs. I didn't like the low resolution graphics, particularly on characters, but Blizzard made up for that with great artwork, fun animations and music. I missed having my own house and Guildhall and the crafting in SWG-preCU was actually pretty exciting because it was unpredictable (and far more complex). I loved all the content in WoW and I thought the GMs were great. I did not like the zoning system. On that score, SWG was great, you basically could climb steep mountains if you wanted to (not that there was a reason to). Flying mounts in the WoW expansion was a BIG relief for the zoning issue.
My favorite aspect of SWG was the roleplaying element. You had only one character per account (unless you were a Jedi) and with the skills system, you could mix and match as you liked. I also liked doing instances primarily for Badges, so you didn't have to group and do the instances over and over for loot unless you felt like helping out friends. On the other hand, WoW instances are incredible works of art, really put together well.
In SWG, you could have a lot of fun just hanging out and doing stuff with friends. You could have parties, dances, even marriages. You could build cities. I would have liked more flexibility in the interface to do more, SWG was a lot broader than it was deep. In contrast, WoWs pre-set classes with all the availability of alts reduced the immersion factor for me but they sort of made up for that with excellent player events which were much rarer in SWG.
Finally, I didn't find much interest in PvP and RAIDING for loot in WoW. As a result, I was geared in all Blue. I sort of made up for this by running dual accounts on two side-by-side computers and that was fun for solo.
But, this is all off the subject. The main discussion point was the maturity level of WoW playerbase compared to other games. There was certainly far more roleplaying in SWG-preCU than I found in WoW. I should have played on a roleplaying server, but all my friends from SWG went to a normal server, so thats where I played. Nevertheless, I thought most of the WoW players were nice and helpful, not all, but most. They simply were always fixated on "dinging" and "loot" which clearly is understandable given the mechanics of the game.
Even from the beginning, I never saw WoW as a longterm MMORPG for me because I wanted the sandbox experience back again. But, for the time I played it, I did find it fun and after the horrors of all the SWG bugs, I highly appreciated the polish of the game.
Members of the jury, the prosecution contends that WoW thru malicious intent has produced a fan base that is ripe with immature players, yet they have no evidence to back this up.
Community rating of WoW at mmorpg.com, one of the lowest at 6.7. This is made up of many people's ratings and impressions of playing the game which comes up with an average versus other people playing other games.
It should be noted that other mmorpgs don't have miraculous ratings like 9.0- this does indicate there are asshats in every mmo- but a lower relative rating than other mmos suggest people's impressions of the game community of WoW is perhaps not so great. Though, I think it may or may not do better than Guild Wars which is made up of many people enticed by the non-subscription fee.(the f2p mmorpg community)
Man, it's a miracle it got even that on this site and I hardly think this is a result of players impressions.
Is WoW horrible? No. It has a place and it has a great niche market.
Sorry just had to laugh at this comment. 10 million strong niche market.
Niche does not mean what you think it does. Awesome job in contributing to the conversation too.
EVE - Sharvala FFXI - Shazamalicious Guild Wars - Xavier Lucifer & Charlize the Necro "Ranged...stuck...tree...15 random words... suck... noob fanboy... I MAKE GUIDE!"
Classic. I am the 2nd quoted person in the original post. You say that I am immature and delusional. Gee, trot out some more cliches and banality thanks. Did you even read what I wrote?
I notice you didn't debate my arguments in anyway other than to make personal attacks, innuendo and totally misrepresent what I wrote. How about you debate what I wrote instead of being nothing more than a name caller? And if you're ever played WoW you would realise I had some good points about making 10 man raiding end-game content. It doesn't matter if you support 10 man endgame content or not, there are plenty questions that are valid. What role will off-specs play? How can you fit 4 tanks into 10 man content? Will druids and paladins be pidgeon-holed into being healers again? How hard will 10 man content be? If it is too hard what that just cause the same problem as we have now? If 10 man content is going to use the same content as 25 man then will it be the same length? A lot of people think that 10 man raids = shorter raids. As I pointed out in another post Karazhan is a very long instance compared to most of the 25 man stuff. How about you debate some of these points instead of the same old stuff we've heard a million times
This is what I love about the "casuals". You make the same tired, personal attacks over and over again. Do you think you're "mature" by sitting there and casting aspersions? Pot, kettle, black.
Does your post have the suggestion that I am a:
14 year old ... Check
My life revolves around a game that I have cancelled my subscrition too? ... Check
My post is poorly written and isn't in English ... Check.
Yawn, pappy. I've heard it all before.
You know, I could make nasty remarks based on the fact you're 44 year old man who has made 1000 posts on a MMO gaming site (I doubt I have made 1000 posts on any forum in 13 years of using the internet) but I won't. I'll just stick to debating what you write instead of childish name calling.
Is WoW horrible? No. It has a place and it has a great niche market.
Sorry just had to laugh at this comment. 10 million strong niche market.
Niche does not mean what you think it does. Awesome job in contributing to the conversation too.
Yes it does. And by the way, I started the thread, so I think I have done my share of contributing.
niche - noun, adjective, verb, niched, nich·ing.
–noun
1.
an ornamental recess in a wall or the like, usually semicircular in plan and arched, as for a statue or other decorative object.
2.
a place or position suitable or appropriate for a person or thing: to find one's niche in the business world.
3.
a distinct segment of a market.
4.
Ecology. the position or function of an organism in a community of plants and animals.
–adjective
5.
pertaining to or intended for a market niche; having specific appeal: niche advertising.
–verb (used with object)
6.
to place (something) in a niche.
I think we can throw out 1, 4 and 6 which do not really relate to what we are talking about which leaves us with 2,3 and 5.
Now you might say that WoW fits the description of #2, however when you look at 3 and 5 as well, it doesn't fit. WoW holds a 62% share of the MMO market, that's not a "distinct segment of the market", that's well over a majority of the market. WoW is highly regarded even by it's detractors as the "mass market" MMO, which again is not "having specific appeal". Sorry, but WoW is not a niche game. It appeals to the masses.
all the players. With all these bots u cant really get the full fun of the game anymore. From everything u read that was , what bothered u? ffs....
But I thought they were all bots? You make it sound like every game is full of bots, so I was just wondering who it was that was seeing all the bots? I don't think the bots see the other bots, or perhaps they do. Perhaps the bots are so smart now, they have become self aware. Whoa, I'm starting to see what that movie terminator was all about.
I play BG's all the time and I rarely see anything that I think is a bot. I often carry on conversations with many of the people I'm playing with in BG's. If they are botting, they sure have some pretty sophisticated bots working there. Hell I even from time to time get into arguments in BG's with other players. You think those are bots too? You seem to see them all the time and yet I almost never seem to see them. How can this be? One of us has to be wrong. Either there are tons of bots and I'm carrying on conversations with them or there aren't as many as you claim there are.
ffs... What does this mean anyway? No, I know what it means, what I mean is why did you put it on the end of your post? Is this suppose to somehow stress your point? Or maybe you just don't like being questioned? You do realize that when you post on an open forum that other people have the right to question your posts, right?
I have played on 3 different servers for over 4 months on each.
On each server the last year i came across to bots in BG.
If there are 40 people per side in an alterac valley at least 10 of them are bots or are not playing at all and are afk the whole BG.
And at late night i have come across to more than 25 afk'ers and bot in a single AV.
We were 40 people and there were 25 people with 0 kills, deaths. healing done, dmg done , for over 30 minutes.
That means that they are bots or they are afk.
If u havent seen any bots and afkers around , u must be on a miracle server or u must be blind.
Anyway we both made our point here, better see what the rest of people say about these issues as well, i am sure they will prove one of us wrong .
Tbh i dont get what u are saying here. You seem to care more about how i express what i want to say and not what i really am saying.
Yes, my english may not be the best, but i think they are understanable and u get my point....
Anyway, u can question posts (that's why we are here anyway) and i will try answering them
Actually a player with 0 damage and 0 healing is definately NOT a bot. A bot by definition is playing the game and would not have 0 damage and 0 healing. A bot and someone who is AFK are not the same thing. I haven't said one word about AFK players. Your original post only mentioned bots. Are you now saying that you were referring to AFK players? If so, I have no beef with your post, but that's not what you said.
Classic. I am the 2nd quoted person in the original post. You say that I am immature and delusional. Gee, trot out some more cliches and banality thanks. Did you even read what I wrote? I've read some of what you have written. I did find this particular quote to be very funny.
I notice you didn't debate my arguments in anyway other than to make personal attacks, innuendo and totally misrepresent what I wrote. How about you debate what I wrote instead of being nothing more than a name caller? I don't care to debate with you on these topics because I don't think it would do much good. You have your opinions, I have mine, lets leave it at that. And if you're ever played WoW... Been playing since Beta. ...you would realise I had some good points about making 10 man raiding end-game content. It doesn't matter if you support 10 man endgame content or not, there are plenty questions that are valid. It's not so much your points that I disagree with it's the way you make your points. You're very opinionated and very emotional. That's cool, I can appreciate that, but you need to remember we are in fact discussing a game. Sometimes your comments suggest that Blizzard has done some things personally to you or it's players. I can assure you that the only thing Blizzard is concerned with is making a game they think people will enjoy playing. That's what all gaming companies are concerned with. What role will off-specs play? Same one they do today in 25 mans. They are not going away. How can you fit 4 tanks into 10 man content? You don't need 4 tanks in 10 man, that's what 25 mans are for. I repeat, they are not going away. Will druids and paladins be pidgeon-holed into being healers again? No, their is plenty of room for them in 25 mans. They aren't going away. How hard will 10 man content be? What difference does it make? If it is too hard what that just cause the same problem as we have now? What problem? If 10 man content is going to use the same content as 25 man then will it be the same length? Blizzard did not say it would be the same content, only that there would be both 10 man and 25 man versions of the same instance. You took that to mean it would be the same content. Just because they have the same bosses, that does not mean identical content. I do think they will probably be approximately the same length, just the difficulty will be tuned to either 25 man or 10 man. A lot of people think that 10 man raids = shorter raids. As I pointed out in another post Karazhan is a very long instance compared to most of the 25 man stuff. I'm not debating this. I love Karazhan. How about you debate some of these points instead of the same old stuff we've heard a million times Satisfied? This is what I love about the "casuals". What exactly makes me "casual". I play everyday. Usually about 4 hours a night. So is anyone who is not a hard core raider "casual" now? Me and my "casual" buddies can make it thru Kara in about 2 hours and 45 minutes in one night. I've attempted Gruuls a couple times. That's about the extent of my raiding. You make the same tired, personal attacks over and over again. It was just once. I could have attacked you on each of your posts, I instead decided to wrap it all up in one thread and try to make it entertaining for the others here. Do you think you're "mature" by sitting there and casting aspersions? Pot, kettle, black. Nope. "Funny" is what I was going for. Sorry that came at your expense. Does your post have the suggestion that I am a:
14 year old ... Check
My life revolves around a game that I have cancelled my subscrition too? ... Check
My post is poorly written and isn't in English ... Check.
Yawn, pappy. I've heard it all before. I don't think I suggested any of those things. 14 and immature are not one in the same. I suggested nothing about your life. Actually I think many would probably say too much of my life revolves around a game. I have no problem with you playing the game. When you start to question someones right to play a game based on their real life priorities is when I think you start to lose touch with reality. Your English? Where did I question your English?
You know, I could make nasty remarks based on the fact you're 44 year old man who has made 1000 posts on a MMO gaming site (I doubt I have made 1000 posts on any forum in 13 years of using the internet) but I won't. I'll just stick to debating what you write instead of childish name calling. Deal.
Members of the jury, the prosecution contends that WoW thru malicious intent has produced a fan base that is ripe with immature players, yet they have no evidence to back this up.
Community rating of WoW at mmorpg.com, one of the lowest at 6.7. This is made up of many people's ratings and impressions of playing the game which comes up with an average versus other people playing other games.
It should be noted that other mmorpgs don't have miraculous ratings like 9.0- this does indicate there are asshats in every mmo- but a lower relative rating than other mmos suggest people's impressions of the game community of WoW is perhaps not so great. Though, I think it may or may not do better than Guild Wars which is made up of many people enticed by the non-subscription fee.(the f2p mmorpg community)
I'm confused because I see WoW as a 7.6 rating with the top spot being 7.9. (I'm discounting AoC at the moment because it's new and all new games start out high and then drop). If you are talking about the community rating only, how do you see that. I can't seem to see the individual ratings for a game.
I've read some of what you have written. I did find this particular quote to be very funny.
The operative word there is "some".
Same one they do today in 25 mans. They are not going away. How can you fit 4 tanks into 10 man content?
Nope. How can you fit a 25 man raid in a 10 man raid? Ret paladin, moonkin, elemental shaman, fury warrior, shadow priest. There is no way in hell would I want to do a tough 10 man with those 5 as my DPS. Compare the DPS output of that compared to 2 x rogue, mage, warlock, hunter. I'm not saying you HAVE to take those 5 classes to clear 10 man content and im definitely not saying you can't take a mix of off-spec and pure dps classes. This isn't the EJ forum so theres no point to theorycrafting but I can guarantee you there will be tears in WotLK if the 10 man content is tough and requires certain class make-ups.
You don't need 4 tanks in 10 man, that's what 25 mans are for. I repeat, they are not going away.
Obviously you don't need 4. Thats my point, which two out of the four are you going to take? 10 man content will most likely be 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 dps. Fo example you take a prot warrior and feral druid. What about death knights and prot paladins? Since death knights will be magic boss tanks I'm sure the devs will have a boss that does truckloads of magic dmg. So what happens to one of the other tanks? Swapping people in and out for bosses is not fun.
Will druids and paladins be pidgeon-holed into being healers again? No, their is plenty of room for them in 25 mans. They aren't going away.
The question was about the druids and paladins who only want to do 10 man content. If moonkin and ret paladins are not viable in 10 man content forcing them into 25 man content will only create the same complaints we have now. Whatever way you look at it people will still complain about raiding in WotLK. Blizzard are stupid if they think they can keep all casuals happy.
Blizzard did not say it would be the same content, only that there would be both 10 man and 25 man versions of the same instance. You took that to mean it would be the same content. Just because they have the same bosses, that does not mean identical content. I do think they will probably be approximately the same length, just the difficulty will be tuned to either 25 man or 10 man ... I'm not debating this. I love Karazhan.
You're missing my point. Since you say you play many hours it doesn't apply to you directly. But the amount of people on this forum alone who are saying "this is great. I don't have much time to do raids and now we can do all the content in 10 mans thats great!" They're confusing the size of the raid with the length of the instance. Even a PUG Gruul's only takes 1 hour at worst but a full PUG clear of Karazhan will take 4 hours (assuming the raid doesn't totally outgear and out experience the instance)
This is what I love about the "casuals". What exactly makes me "casual". I play everyday. Usually about 4 hours a night. So is anyone who is not a hard core raider "casual" now? Me and my "casual" buddies can make it thru Kara in about 2 hours and 45 minutes in one night. I've attempted Gruuls a couple times. That's about the extent of my raiding.
Time is not the only indication of casual/hardcore. I know people who don't have much time but are in Sunwell guilds and the time they do have they're pretty full on. A guild on my old server is 4/6 sunwell and they only raid 16 hours a week (very low compared to most guilds of that level) but they make sure every hour counts. I know other people who play 40+ hours a week who struggle at everything in the game.
Ultimately I don't care how many hours you do or don't spend. Its your life, live it how you want. The only thing I have in common with you is WOW so thats what I'll talk amount.
Same one they do today in 25 mans. They are not going away.
How can you fit 4 tanks into 10 man content?
Nope. How can you fit a 25 man raid in a 10 man raid? Ret paladin, moonkin, elemental shaman, fury warrior, shadow priest. There is no way in hell would I want to do a tough 10 man with those 5 as my DPS.
And one final thing Washo, we "casuals" really object to you treating us like we are inferior. There's nothing inferior about us. I can do a 25 man raid if I'm so inclined, in fact I have been to the 25 man raids before and you know what? It's no different. Not in the least. Other than the fact that there's 25 people in the raid group rather than 10, it's EXACTLY the same. It's NOT harder. You WANT to believe it's harder because you like the idea, but the truth is it's not. All you need to finish a 25 man raid is to get 25 people with enough gear who understand their role. That's it. Well, that's EXACTLY what you need in a 10 main raid too, only it's only 10 guys. That's the ONLY difference. So please stop with the whole "how are you going to do it when it's just as hard as 25 man", because it IS as hard as the 25 man raid content. We don't want 10 man raids because they are easier or take less time, we want 10 man raids because it requires 10 men instead of 25. That's it. That's all we want. Deal with it. There's nothing all that magical about 25 man raid content, you just believe there is, because it makes you feel better about yourself. Well sorry, but I've been there and done that and I have the t-shirt and it's no tougher. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.
Now, please go into some long diatribe about whatever raid content you have been too and how tough it was and all that. I'm sure everyone will get a big kick out of it, but I'm not buying it and you know what else? I have a bunch of buddies who have been to most of the 25 man raid content themselves and they aren't buying it either. The only difference between me and you Washo is that I don't have an ego problem and I don't consider myself better than the next guy. I just play the game the way that I want to play it and I let the others play the game the way they want. As long as they don't get in my way then I don't mind. When you start to get in my way though, I'm gonna have something to say about it.
It's all very easy.... If you like a game, play it. If you don't, stop playing it. If you like a game to an extent and want it to be even better, provide constructive criticism in an organized and professional fashion. Anyone who cannot adhere to the above should have their posting and/or chatting abilities revoked. Easy as pie.
But, but, but this is like geek footbal, it's not the same if you just walk by the other team and shake hands while you do it.
Your honor, I submit the following evidence to refute anyone that is crazy enough to point to the rating system at MMORPG.COM as anything but "for entertainment purposes only", much like a psychic hotline.
As you can clearly see the user rating would make Auto Assault the second highest rated game on MMORPG.COM.
Your honor, I submit the following evidence to refute anyone that is crazy enough to point to the rating system at MMORPG.COM as anything but "for entertainment purposes only", much like a psychic hotline. As you can clearly see the user rating would make Auto Assault the second highest rated game on MMORPG.COM.
Your honor, I submit the following evidence to refute anyone that is crazy enough to point to the rating system at MMORPG.COM as anything but "for entertainment purposes only", much like a psychic hotline.
As you can clearly see the user rating would make Auto Assault the second highest rated game on MMORPG.COM.
I'll bite. Where is the rating of AutoAssault? Generally, I think the ratings system isn't the best way of rating mmos when graphics may rate one game higher/lower than the other- but if you look at the list of all the mmos the poorer ones tend to swing nearer 5, and the better ones nearer 8. With so many users making up the average vote, it tends to give an appropiate number- well in the case of www.gamerankings.com, this is slightly flawed imo- it should have a balance/swing factor- where you directly rate a game out of 10. Autoassault is perhaps testament to the flaw, in that it certainly had decent graphics, also it may have been seen as well-done but unappealling- certainly in my case. The fact, it went bankrupt may not be testament of how good/bad the game was, but more how niche it was, and financiailly unviable.
This being said, what I was originally referring to was a 'community' rating which is directly rated. This can be found by clicking the individual game and you can see it's makeup. While, there is a number of people anti-WoW and it's community on this site, it is as always a vocal minority when such a vote is comprised of many votes. And if it were the vocal minorities view, you would have a community of '5' rather than the figure that is there. Either way, this does give a decently accurate view from the many votes.
To me, this is understandable. Every mmo has its idiots, which is reflected in the ratings. But, things that are f2p have a much larger perhaps juvenile population. Similarly while WoW isn't f2p it does have many teenage fans(as well as many older fans 25-50+ even) which is more readily noted.
I'll bite. Where is the rating of AutoAssault? Check the graphic below his post. It shows an 8.1 rating. This being said, what I was originally referring to was a 'community' rating which is directly rated. This can be found by clicking the individual game and you can see it's makeup. Yeah, I can see the community rating for an individual game, but how do you sort all the games by the community rating? Without that knowledge it's impossible to really compare all the games and see how they fared.
Comments
Sorry just had to laugh at this comment. 10 million strong niche market.
Maybe that's what he thought, great, as in huge.
Well personally I wouldn't call 62% of the MMO genre a niche market. That's more like a huge freaking chasm. But that's just me, I could be wrong.
After spending 2.5 years on WoW , on both alliance and horde faction, both hardcore and casual, i believe that Blizzard has to come up with something new.
IF WotLK will be similar to TBC (just new continent, +10level and few more features), i think WoW will lose a big part of its subscribers.
I didnt like the old honor system when people had to play for about 15 hours a day to become grand marshal cause i wanted a way that really skilled people get the Rank14.
But the honor system Blizzard came up with was A LOT worse, not better.
At least the old days we were playing the game, now we only see bots,game sellers and the end-pve
items are not worth, since they cannot be used in PvP cause the lack of the resilience and the PvP items are just too damn easy to get.
And ofc the whole warcraft myth , has no depth and is useless with CONSTANT FARMING and boring quests, who have no point.
WoW was really fun at start, were a bit less fun and addiction at mid but now is boring and pointless.
If Blizzard doesnt make drastic changes with WotLK , Wow will die in some months (not more than a year) after WotLK's release.
Who is we?
all the players.
With all these bots u cant really get the full fun of the game anymore.
From everything u read that was , what bothered u? ffs....
But I thought they were all bots? You make it sound like every game is full of bots, so I was just wondering who it was that was seeing all the bots? I don't think the bots see the other bots, or perhaps they do. Perhaps the bots are so smart now, they have become self aware. Whoa, I'm starting to see what that movie terminator was all about.
I play BG's all the time and I rarely see anything that I think is a bot. I often carry on conversations with many of the people I'm playing with in BG's. If they are botting, they sure have some pretty sophisticated bots working there. Hell I even from time to time get into arguments in BG's with other players. You think those are bots too? You seem to see them all the time and yet I almost never seem to see them. How can this be? One of us has to be wrong. Either there are tons of bots and I'm carrying on conversations with them or there aren't as many as you claim there are.
ffs... What does this mean anyway? No, I know what it means, what I mean is why did you put it on the end of your post? Is this suppose to somehow stress your point? Or maybe you just don't like being questioned? You do realize that when you post on an open forum that other people have the right to question your posts, right?
I left WoW again a couple months ago. On the all the servers I have played the community was worse than any other mmo I have played. I agree the sheer size of the player base is probably the reason the community is lacking. There are some great people that play but the chat channels often have to be turned off do to the overflow of jerks. To me the game was too raid centric and the cast majority of raiders I encountered were not people I would like to play with as they were too hardcore and rude. Personally would love to see 5 man versions of all the raid dungeons even with a reduced loot table. I don't really care if i have the best loot available to me its a game I want to have fun, meet some interesting people and explore the virtual world I don't need to tie my life into the game to feel good about myself. I have actually had raiders in WoW tell me to lock my damn kids up in their room so I could raid and that I needed to get my priorities straight. This is the only game I have ever had that happen on. Some gamers need to realize not everyone lives for the game some of us have families, careers and civic obligations that don't give us the luxury of playing more than 10 hours a week at best. All I really want is a little common decency and give me a chance to see the final areas without raiding. I don't even care if it is just cash and blue drops just along for the story.
But I thought they were all bots? You make it sound like every game is full of bots, so I was just wondering who it was that was seeing all the bots? I don't think the bots see the other bots, or perhaps they do. Perhaps the bots are so smart now, they have become self aware. Whoa, I'm starting to see what that movie terminator was all about.
I play BG's all the time and I rarely see anything that I think is a bot. I often carry on conversations with many of the people I'm playing with in BG's. If they are botting, they sure have some pretty sophisticated bots working there. Hell I even from time to time get into arguments in BG's with other players. You think those are bots too? You seem to see them all the time and yet I almost never seem to see them. How can this be? One of us has to be wrong. Either there are tons of bots and I'm carrying on conversations with them or there aren't as many as you claim there are.
ffs... What does this mean anyway? No, I know what it means, what I mean is why did you put it on the end of your post? Is this suppose to somehow stress your point? Or maybe you just don't like being questioned? You do realize that when you post on an open forum that other people have the right to question your posts, right?
I have played on 3 different servers for over 4 months on each.
On each server the last year i came across to bots in BG.
If there are 40 people per side in an alterac valley at least 10 of them are bots or are not playing at all and are afk the whole BG.
And at late night i have come across to more than 25 afk'ers and bot in a single AV.
We were 40 people and there were 25 people with 0 kills, deaths. healing done, dmg done , for over 30 minutes.
That means that they are bots or they are afk.
If u havent seen any bots and afkers around , u must be on a miracle server or u must be blind.
Anyway we both made our point here, better see what the rest of people say about these issues as well, i am sure they will prove one of us wrong .
Tbh i dont get what u are saying here. You seem to care more about how i express what i want to say and not what i really am saying.
Yes, my english may not be the best, but i think they are understanable and u get my point....
Anyway, u can question posts (that's why we are here anyway) and i will try answering them
Community rating of WoW at mmorpg.com, one of the lowest at 6.7. This is made up of many people's ratings and impressions of playing the game which comes up with an average versus other people playing other games.
It should be noted that other mmorpgs don't have miraculous ratings like 9.0- this does indicate there are asshats in every mmo- but a lower relative rating than other mmos suggest people's impressions of the game community of WoW is perhaps not so great. Though, I think it may or may not do better than Guild Wars which is made up of many people enticed by the non-subscription fee.(the f2p mmorpg community)
I basically just say what I personally like or don't like and avoid the "good/bad" deal. I no longer play WoW. The only other game I seriously played was SWG-preCU. I liked WoW's polish... things worked well with few bugs. I didn't like the low resolution graphics, particularly on characters, but Blizzard made up for that with great artwork, fun animations and music. I missed having my own house and Guildhall and the crafting in SWG-preCU was actually pretty exciting because it was unpredictable (and far more complex). I loved all the content in WoW and I thought the GMs were great. I did not like the zoning system. On that score, SWG was great, you basically could climb steep mountains if you wanted to (not that there was a reason to). Flying mounts in the WoW expansion was a BIG relief for the zoning issue.
My favorite aspect of SWG was the roleplaying element. You had only one character per account (unless you were a Jedi) and with the skills system, you could mix and match as you liked. I also liked doing instances primarily for Badges, so you didn't have to group and do the instances over and over for loot unless you felt like helping out friends. On the other hand, WoW instances are incredible works of art, really put together well.
In SWG, you could have a lot of fun just hanging out and doing stuff with friends. You could have parties, dances, even marriages. You could build cities. I would have liked more flexibility in the interface to do more, SWG was a lot broader than it was deep. In contrast, WoWs pre-set classes with all the availability of alts reduced the immersion factor for me but they sort of made up for that with excellent player events which were much rarer in SWG.
Finally, I didn't find much interest in PvP and RAIDING for loot in WoW. As a result, I was geared in all Blue. I sort of made up for this by running dual accounts on two side-by-side computers and that was fun for solo.
But, this is all off the subject. The main discussion point was the maturity level of WoW playerbase compared to other games. There was certainly far more roleplaying in SWG-preCU than I found in WoW. I should have played on a roleplaying server, but all my friends from SWG went to a normal server, so thats where I played. Nevertheless, I thought most of the WoW players were nice and helpful, not all, but most. They simply were always fixated on "dinging" and "loot" which clearly is understandable given the mechanics of the game.
Even from the beginning, I never saw WoW as a longterm MMORPG for me because I wanted the sandbox experience back again. But, for the time I played it, I did find it fun and after the horrors of all the SWG bugs, I highly appreciated the polish of the game.
Community rating of WoW at mmorpg.com, one of the lowest at 6.7. This is made up of many people's ratings and impressions of playing the game which comes up with an average versus other people playing other games.
It should be noted that other mmorpgs don't have miraculous ratings like 9.0- this does indicate there are asshats in every mmo- but a lower relative rating than other mmos suggest people's impressions of the game community of WoW is perhaps not so great. Though, I think it may or may not do better than Guild Wars which is made up of many people enticed by the non-subscription fee.(the f2p mmorpg community)
Man, it's a miracle it got even that on this site and I hardly think this is a result of players impressions.
Sorry just had to laugh at this comment. 10 million strong niche market.
Niche does not mean what you think it does. Awesome job in contributing to the conversation too.
EVE - Sharvala
FFXI - Shazamalicious
Guild Wars - Xavier Lucifer & Charlize the Necro
"Ranged...stuck...tree...15 random words... suck... noob fanboy... I MAKE GUIDE!"
Classic. I am the 2nd quoted person in the original post. You say that I am immature and delusional. Gee, trot out some more cliches and banality thanks. Did you even read what I wrote?
I notice you didn't debate my arguments in anyway other than to make personal attacks, innuendo and totally misrepresent what I wrote. How about you debate what I wrote instead of being nothing more than a name caller? And if you're ever played WoW you would realise I had some good points about making 10 man raiding end-game content. It doesn't matter if you support 10 man endgame content or not, there are plenty questions that are valid. What role will off-specs play? How can you fit 4 tanks into 10 man content? Will druids and paladins be pidgeon-holed into being healers again? How hard will 10 man content be? If it is too hard what that just cause the same problem as we have now? If 10 man content is going to use the same content as 25 man then will it be the same length? A lot of people think that 10 man raids = shorter raids. As I pointed out in another post Karazhan is a very long instance compared to most of the 25 man stuff. How about you debate some of these points instead of the same old stuff we've heard a million times
This is what I love about the "casuals". You make the same tired, personal attacks over and over again. Do you think you're "mature" by sitting there and casting aspersions? Pot, kettle, black.
Does your post have the suggestion that I am a:
14 year old ... Check
My life revolves around a game that I have cancelled my subscrition too? ... Check
My post is poorly written and isn't in English ... Check.
Yawn, pappy. I've heard it all before.
You know, I could make nasty remarks based on the fact you're 44 year old man who has made 1000 posts on a MMO gaming site (I doubt I have made 1000 posts on any forum in 13 years of using the internet) but I won't. I'll just stick to debating what you write instead of childish name calling.
Sorry just had to laugh at this comment. 10 million strong niche market.
Niche does not mean what you think it does. Awesome job in contributing to the conversation too.
Yes it does. And by the way, I started the thread, so I think I have done my share of contributing.
niche
- noun, adjective, verb, niched, nich·ing.
I think we can throw out 1, 4 and 6 which do not really relate to what we are talking about which leaves us with 2,3 and 5.
Now you might say that WoW fits the description of #2, however when you look at 3 and 5 as well, it doesn't fit. WoW holds a 62% share of the MMO market, that's not a "distinct segment of the market", that's well over a majority of the market. WoW is highly regarded even by it's detractors as the "mass market" MMO, which again is not "having specific appeal". Sorry, but WoW is not a niche game. It appeals to the masses.
But I thought they were all bots? You make it sound like every game is full of bots, so I was just wondering who it was that was seeing all the bots? I don't think the bots see the other bots, or perhaps they do. Perhaps the bots are so smart now, they have become self aware. Whoa, I'm starting to see what that movie terminator was all about.
I play BG's all the time and I rarely see anything that I think is a bot. I often carry on conversations with many of the people I'm playing with in BG's. If they are botting, they sure have some pretty sophisticated bots working there. Hell I even from time to time get into arguments in BG's with other players. You think those are bots too? You seem to see them all the time and yet I almost never seem to see them. How can this be? One of us has to be wrong. Either there are tons of bots and I'm carrying on conversations with them or there aren't as many as you claim there are.
ffs... What does this mean anyway? No, I know what it means, what I mean is why did you put it on the end of your post? Is this suppose to somehow stress your point? Or maybe you just don't like being questioned? You do realize that when you post on an open forum that other people have the right to question your posts, right?
I have played on 3 different servers for over 4 months on each.
On each server the last year i came across to bots in BG.
If there are 40 people per side in an alterac valley at least 10 of them are bots or are not playing at all and are afk the whole BG.
And at late night i have come across to more than 25 afk'ers and bot in a single AV.
We were 40 people and there were 25 people with 0 kills, deaths. healing done, dmg done , for over 30 minutes.
That means that they are bots or they are afk.
If u havent seen any bots and afkers around , u must be on a miracle server or u must be blind.
Anyway we both made our point here, better see what the rest of people say about these issues as well, i am sure they will prove one of us wrong .
Tbh i dont get what u are saying here. You seem to care more about how i express what i want to say and not what i really am saying.
Yes, my english may not be the best, but i think they are understanable and u get my point....
Anyway, u can question posts (that's why we are here anyway) and i will try answering them
Actually a player with 0 damage and 0 healing is definately NOT a bot. A bot by definition is playing the game and would not have 0 damage and 0 healing. A bot and someone who is AFK are not the same thing. I haven't said one word about AFK players. Your original post only mentioned bots. Are you now saying that you were referring to AFK players? If so, I have no beef with your post, but that's not what you said.
Community rating of WoW at mmorpg.com, one of the lowest at 6.7. This is made up of many people's ratings and impressions of playing the game which comes up with an average versus other people playing other games.
It should be noted that other mmorpgs don't have miraculous ratings like 9.0- this does indicate there are asshats in every mmo- but a lower relative rating than other mmos suggest people's impressions of the game community of WoW is perhaps not so great. Though, I think it may or may not do better than Guild Wars which is made up of many people enticed by the non-subscription fee.(the f2p mmorpg community)
I'm confused because I see WoW as a 7.6 rating with the top spot being 7.9. (I'm discounting AoC at the moment because it's new and all new games start out high and then drop). If you are talking about the community rating only, how do you see that. I can't seem to see the individual ratings for a game.
The operative word there is "some".
Nope. How can you fit a 25 man raid in a 10 man raid? Ret paladin, moonkin, elemental shaman, fury warrior, shadow priest. There is no way in hell would I want to do a tough 10 man with those 5 as my DPS. Compare the DPS output of that compared to 2 x rogue, mage, warlock, hunter. I'm not saying you HAVE to take those 5 classes to clear 10 man content and im definitely not saying you can't take a mix of off-spec and pure dps classes. This isn't the EJ forum so theres no point to theorycrafting but I can guarantee you there will be tears in WotLK if the 10 man content is tough and requires certain class make-ups.
Obviously you don't need 4. Thats my point, which two out of the four are you going to take? 10 man content will most likely be 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 dps. Fo example you take a prot warrior and feral druid. What about death knights and prot paladins? Since death knights will be magic boss tanks I'm sure the devs will have a boss that does truckloads of magic dmg. So what happens to one of the other tanks? Swapping people in and out for bosses is not fun.
The question was about the druids and paladins who only want to do 10 man content. If moonkin and ret paladins are not viable in 10 man content forcing them into 25 man content will only create the same complaints we have now. Whatever way you look at it people will still complain about raiding in WotLK. Blizzard are stupid if they think they can keep all casuals happy.
You're missing my point. Since you say you play many hours it doesn't apply to you directly. But the amount of people on this forum alone who are saying "this is great. I don't have much time to do raids and now we can do all the content in 10 mans thats great!" They're confusing the size of the raid with the length of the instance. Even a PUG Gruul's only takes 1 hour at worst but a full PUG clear of Karazhan will take 4 hours (assuming the raid doesn't totally outgear and out experience the instance)
Time is not the only indication of casual/hardcore. I know people who don't have much time but are in Sunwell guilds and the time they do have they're pretty full on. A guild on my old server is 4/6 sunwell and they only raid 16 hours a week (very low compared to most guilds of that level) but they make sure every hour counts. I know other people who play 40+ hours a week who struggle at everything in the game.
Ultimately I don't care how many hours you do or don't spend. Its your life, live it how you want. The only thing I have in common with you is WOW so thats what I'll talk amount.
It's all very easy....
If you like a game, play it.
If you don't, stop playing it.
If you like a game to an extent and want it to be even better, provide constructive criticism in an organized and professional fashion.
Anyone who cannot adhere to the above should have their posting and/or chatting abilities revoked.
Easy as pie.
Nope. How can you fit a 25 man raid in a 10 man raid? Ret paladin, moonkin, elemental shaman, fury warrior, shadow priest. There is no way in hell would I want to do a tough 10 man with those 5 as my DPS.
Operative word there being "I".
And one final thing Washo, we "casuals" really object to you treating us like we are inferior. There's nothing inferior about us. I can do a 25 man raid if I'm so inclined, in fact I have been to the 25 man raids before and you know what? It's no different. Not in the least. Other than the fact that there's 25 people in the raid group rather than 10, it's EXACTLY the same. It's NOT harder. You WANT to believe it's harder because you like the idea, but the truth is it's not. All you need to finish a 25 man raid is to get 25 people with enough gear who understand their role. That's it. Well, that's EXACTLY what you need in a 10 main raid too, only it's only 10 guys. That's the ONLY difference. So please stop with the whole "how are you going to do it when it's just as hard as 25 man", because it IS as hard as the 25 man raid content. We don't want 10 man raids because they are easier or take less time, we want 10 man raids because it requires 10 men instead of 25. That's it. That's all we want. Deal with it. There's nothing all that magical about 25 man raid content, you just believe there is, because it makes you feel better about yourself. Well sorry, but I've been there and done that and I have the t-shirt and it's no tougher. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.
Now, please go into some long diatribe about whatever raid content you have been too and how tough it was and all that. I'm sure everyone will get a big kick out of it, but I'm not buying it and you know what else? I have a bunch of buddies who have been to most of the 25 man raid content themselves and they aren't buying it either. The only difference between me and you Washo is that I don't have an ego problem and I don't consider myself better than the next guy. I just play the game the way that I want to play it and I let the others play the game the way they want. As long as they don't get in my way then I don't mind. When you start to get in my way though, I'm gonna have something to say about it.
But, but, but this is like geek footbal, it's not the same if you just walk by the other team and shake hands while you do it.
Your honor, I submit the following evidence to refute anyone that is crazy enough to point to the rating system at MMORPG.COM as anything but "for entertainment purposes only", much like a psychic hotline.
As you can clearly see the user rating would make Auto Assault the second highest rated game on MMORPG.COM.
Case dismissed. ROFLMAO
This being said, what I was originally referring to was a 'community' rating which is directly rated. This can be found by clicking the individual game and you can see it's makeup. While, there is a number of people anti-WoW and it's community on this site, it is as always a vocal minority when such a vote is comprised of many votes. And if it were the vocal minorities view, you would have a community of '5' rather than the figure that is there. Either way, this does give a decently accurate view from the many votes.
To me, this is understandable. Every mmo has its idiots, which is reflected in the ratings. But, things that are f2p have a much larger perhaps juvenile population. Similarly while WoW isn't f2p it does have many teenage fans(as well as many older fans 25-50+ even) which is more readily noted.