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Is SOE in compliance with HIS Customers Privacy Policy?
ultrasparc
Member UncommonPosts: 51
Hi all,
a long (but cool in my opinion) story.
On 07/5/2008 i realized that, after my 5 accounts cancellations already done, for the future i dont wanna have nothing more else to share with SOE, due to the unethical behaviour on the SWG mess you all know.
I also realized that they still maintain my personal information stored in their databases, as well non-strictly personal informations like preferences and so on.
As many of you knows, there is a "market" of customers informations between companies. We can debate for a century if a company is allowed or not to sell or share your personal data: a simple click (that means "i give my consent") is sufficient to allow this kind of trading.
After getting your consent with this "click" (and all the current and former SWG players gave their consent -not in full but in a large part- signing the game subscription), a company could sell - or share- your personal data for real money to other companies or parent companies, for marketing purposes.
Moreover, in case of mergers, acquisitions or sale of the company, his databases (like list of customers, or informations on customers preferences) represent an intangible asset , and this means WORTH. In this case, as per SOE Privacy Policy (see link below) you have already consented to use ALL THE INFORMATIONS you gave them , personal informations included.
I dont know what SOE did, do, or will do with my personal information or other data regarding myself, and dont wanna know.
BUT, as allowed by law, i decided to ask for the deletion of my personal information from SOE databases.
For the Privacy laws enforced in Europe (where i live), and in USA too - as per my knowledge- this is my right.
And i dont wanna further think about the possibility that my personal information can be turned into WORTH for SOE.
Last, but not least, I tought :
"with the massive cancellations of SWG (and not only....) accounts that everyone knowns, what are SOE's guys doing, during their working time? It's time to help them with new assignments, and let them to spend productively next weeks, helping a customer like me to get his personal data deleted !!!"
These were my toughts on 07/05/2008.
If you wanna know the entire story, go ahead !!! with this NOTE:
This colour for my comments or explanations. Please note that, for Privacy reasons, my name and all SOE's Employees names has been deleted.
This colour means my e-mails, or questions to SOE
This colour means SOE's reply.
This colour means "AN IMPORTANT THING TO KEEP IN MIND" or "AN UNACCEPTABLE ANSWER".
HERE THE STORY.
I carefully read the "SOE PRIVACY POLICY" at http://www.station.sony.com/en/sonyonline/privacy.vm (revised 19th april 2007), to learn how to get my data deleted.
As suggested in the paragraph "HOW TOU MAY ACCESS, CHANGE OR DELETE THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE PROVIDED TO US" on 07/05/2008 i have sent the following e-mail to the address provided accounts@soe.sony.com :
Subject. Attn: Privacy Officer. Request for personal information removal from SOE databases
Waiting for your prompt reply, regards.
(my name and address)
On 08/05/2008 SOE response:
Response
This is an automatic generated response, to the email you sent.
Thank you for contacting Sony Online Entertainment LLC. We apologize but the email address that you are trying to reach is no longer valid. If you would like to reach our support, please visit http://support.station.sony.com for instructions on how to contact us by email, phone, live chat, or in-game. You can also find there is an extensive knowledge base for all SOE games that may assist you. If you have already have an existing incident regarding this issue, please reply back to your response e-mail in the designated response area. To review all submitted incidents, click on the "Service History" tab, then click on "Questions" at www.station.sony.com/kb. We apologize for the inconvenience.
In the same date, i got this second e-mail from SOE:
"An account has been created for you with the following User ID and password:
Email Address:
(my e-mail)
Password:
xxxxxxxx
I realized they do not want to deal with "normal" e-mail, but throught the Station Accounts thread...but no other possibilities. So i log on on the "temporary" account. I wrote:
Customer
05/12/2008 02:10 AM
Sirs, this is my official notification to have all my personal information removed from Sony Online Entertaiment and parent companies databases (except for data may be required by law).
I had 5 Station Accounts (names deleted), related subscriptions already closed.
Please contact me for any further information needed, and please provide me with your e-mail confirmation at deletion done.
Waiting for your prompt reply, regards.
Response (TSR -name deleted-)
05/12/2008 04:42 PM
Hello!
Unfortunately your request is not possible. We do not delete any of the information on the station accounts.
Regards,
(name deleted)
Technical Support Representative
Sony Online Entertainment
Customer
05/13/2008 01:24 AM
Sirs,
sorry but i read the following in the SOE "Privacy Policy":
QUOTE
"How you may access, change, or delete the information you have provided to us
If you change your mind ...omissis...you may send an e-mail to us at accounts@soe.sony.com. You may also contact us via mail at: Attn: SOE Privacy Officer, 8928 Terman Court, San Diego, CA 92121 or via phone at 858-577-3100 and ask for the Privacy Officer. If you choose to have your personal information removed from our active databases, we will do so within a reasonable time after your request and we will take reasonable steps to ensure that your personal data is not used (except as may be required by law) by SOE after your notification to us.
UNQUOTE
I have sent the e-mail Attn the SOE Privacy Officer at account@soe.sony.com, but got an automatic answer "this address no loger exist", and you have forced me to contact via this method.
Please provide me with the correct procedure to get my personal data cancelled from SOE databases, as allowed by law (and except for the data requested by law).
Regards.
| Response (TSR name edited) | 05/13/2008 11:22 AM |
| Hello! Ok, at this point you will have to write the physical letter as stated before since the email is not in service at this time, Go ahead and mail your request to: Attn: SOE Privacy Officer 8928 Terman Court San Diego, CA 92121 Regards, (name deleted) Technical Support Representative Sony Online Entertainment |
|
At the same time, i received from SOE the following e-mail in my "normal" address (not thought the Station Account):
"Recently you requested personal assistance from the Sony Online Entertainment Support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.
We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 72 hours."
Same day (13/05/2008), i replied through the Station Account (remember that if i try to answer to the "normal" mail i get a "non-working" address", and my message refused)
" Very sorry,
but i have no time and money to spend to send a physical e-mail.
I do not understand:
1) why i have allways electronically signed EULA and payed subscriprtions fees by internet, and why i can not obtain though same method the deletion of my personal data, as allowed by law, and as your Privacy Policy suggest.
2) why in your privacy policy you show a non-working "normal" e-mail address, and force me to write through an internal methods. I suggest to update your Privacy policy and/or show a correct e-mail address.
3) sounds strange that a company like SOE, involved in electronic commerce, cannot handle internally this request, giving it to your Privacy Officer, instead to drive me to send a physical letter.
Hoping to hear from you soon, regards.
Nothing happens until On 17/05/2008, when i got this mail from SOE in my "normal" address":
"We have not heard from you concerning your request for support in the 72 hours since we sent you a response. In the hopes that this indicates a resolution to your problem has been provided, we are tentatively setting your incident status to solved. If we are mistaken in this assumption, please update your incident via the Service History tab of the support site. "
I WAS REALLY ASTONISHED !!!
IS THIS A JOKE?
AND, WHEN I LOG INTO THE THREAD, NO TRACE OF MY LAST POST !!! IT WAS, AT THE EVIDENCE, DELETED !!!!
So i write in the Station thread:
Customer
05/17/2008 08:11 AM
Well, i have replied to your last mail, but the evidence is that you are ignoring my comment.
On the other hand, i cannot prove that i have replied: you dont have a public e-mail (as you confirmed me) and the use of this internal system of communication let you ignore customers comments at your discretion.
Anyway, i have no time nor money to send a physical letter to your Privacy Officer, to obtain the cancellation of my personal information from your databases.
I asked you to handle internally this request, and inform your Privacy Officer. I suppose he/she works at SOE.... and suppose you can talk to him/her.
In case you disagree, no problem: the question will be submitted to the European Commission, Privacy Rights Department, hoping they will intermediate the matter with the analogue American Federal Agency.
Bye Bye
| Response (TSR name deleted, another person...) | 05/17/2008 08:49 AM |
| Greetings, To further investigate this issue, your incident has been escalated to our Tier 2 Support Team. A Specialist will respond to this incident as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience. Warm regards, (name) |
|
and finally got this:
| Response (TSR ...a third name) | 05/20/2008 11:34 AM |
| Greetings, I do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. As you quoted form our Privacy Policy that you pasted in your second response you will need to contact the Privacy Officer. There was 3 options for you in this post. The first would be to contact accounts@soe.sony.com. The second would be to contact the Privacy Officer at 858-537-3100. Third would be to contact the Privacy Officer via mail. We at Technical and Billing support can not assist you with your request. Regards, (name) Technical Support Representative Sony Online Entertainment |
|
NO COMMENT.
Looking carefully at the bottom of the SOE's Privacy Policy webpage, i found that SOE shows the banner "Certified from ESRB (Entertaniment Software Rating Board) as a company "Privacy Certified".
At http://www.esrb.org/privacy/contact.jsp i have reported the same story you have just read.
This is the first step: I am still waiting for a SOE or ESRB answer. Then i have to decide further strategies.
In the Station Access temporary account page they provided me, this is the actual state of my request;
Incidente number
Solved
05/12/2008 02:10 AM
Request for personal information removal from SOE databases
First question: how can they consider "solved" in date 12/05/2005, and they have answered until 20/05/2008 (last SOE post in that thread) ?????
MAIN QUESTION: IS SOE IN COMPLIANCE WITH HIS OWN PRIVACY POLICY (revised 17/04/2007 lol)?
ANSWER: MAYBE. I CAN WRITE, OR MAKE A PHONE CALL.
IN THE MEANWHILE SEEMS THAT AN INTERNED BASED COMPANY, IN XX CENTURY, IS IN SERIOUS TROUBLE TO HANDLE AN E-MAIL REQUEST THROUGH HIS OWN DEPARTMENTS.
SAD TO SAY BUT, IN MY OPINION, THIS IS ANOTHER EVIDENCE THAT EVERYTHING IS
"WORKING AS INTENDED"
Your comments, or suggestions how to continue my "battle" to get my data deleted, are warmly welcome.
Or you can try yourself, with better luck, to get your data deleted... may be i am only an unlucky, former SWG player.
I apologize for the mistakes, english is not my mother tongue.
/salute all
ULTRASPARC
Comments
Here it is..
Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
Soloing against SOE.
While I appreciate your plight...I think you are being well a poo head.
In the time it took you to Write all that with all the differnt colors you could have written a short letter with the request and gone to ANY supermarket and received a stamp.
Would you rather just have them tell you its deleted? You really have no way of knowing if it truly ever is. I know for a fact from past experence of places i have worked we tell peoeple its deleted but its still there just shows as (closed account) but is still accessible.
I say get over it and move on. I am pretty sure that sony is not going to do anything with your info. I have been a cust of there's for over 10 years and never had an issue.
Conservatism.
Just old white men trying to find ways to legalize discrimination, and make the poor poorer
I take that back. I dont think your a poo head. I understand why your frustrated, but really they gave you the solution and trying to get any 3rd party involved (take much more time then writing a letter) and more expensive (more then the 42 cent stamp) Just seems like you should do as they requested. be done with it and move on.
Conservatism.
Just old white men trying to find ways to legalize discrimination, and make the poor poorer
oh also for a 3rd point. E-mails are still not considered Legal documents. that could be the reason behind it with out the CSR knowing it. Only Fax's and Written/typed documents. its a stupid thing but its true. maybe you can ask for a fax number to fax them.
Conservatism.
Just old white men trying to find ways to legalize discrimination, and make the poor poorer
I appreciate your suggestion, and thank you to remember me that stamps are still on sale.
Seriously, as you correctly said, i agree at the end of the story my data will be nevere deleted.
But, atm... have a good internet connection already paid, and alot of empty evenings to spend.
Moreover, someone taught me that sometimes people can debate and spend time for ideals, that are priceless.
My ideals include -inter alia- correctness in commercial behaviour, good faith in business and respect for people and customers.
Maybe i am wrong...but i try not to betray those ideals.
Out of time? My problem....
TY againg and bye.
ULTRASPARC
Soloing against SOE, for ideals...
P.S. I LOVE colors
lol I love your PS
Now Not that I re-read the post.. did you call and what happened with that?
Conservatism.
Just old white men trying to find ways to legalize discrimination, and make the poor poorer
I assure you i have not become angry for your reply, was your opinion and i respected that.
Now please accept my
/deepbow
Sincerely, ULTRASPARC
I dont want to call, or fax, or write a physical letter.
It is sufficient for me that SOE have to deal with an honest, normal request i made, in the way THEY suggested me. That means by e-mail.
Or, they can delete from their policy the wrong information....
Their problem, not mine.
P.S. In june i will be in New York for holidays, maybe i go "by feet" to ESRB to ask something about the question...
While I have sympathy for your situation, and respect for your wish to remove your personal data from their archives, I gotta say your last post fringes on being worthy of the title of "drama queen" I am afraid. You put forth the front of "Battling" against SoE. The provisions they have made have numerous outlets for you to wage your war however, and you have refused. You can not go into a battle with a knife, a rifle, and a grenade and make a stand that you are only going to fight with the knife. (You fall from the role of protagonist or even martyr, and more into "chicken little") That is essentially what you are doing. Speaking from a more legal perspective, not making use of the an alternate faculty undermines your entire case. And as mentioned, short of a written letter, post marked letter or facsimile are not presentable as legal documentation in this sort of matter. To sum up, if YOU are not willing to do everything at your disposal for your cause, don't ask others to rally behind you. People are not deserving of any more help than they are willing to give themselves.
i understand your point of wiew, and maybe that you all all driving me to the right decision: give up and send a letter.
But, i have to underline that with a simple mail i got my data deleted from alot of company and multinational around Europe(or at least a confirmation that the date will be deleted, that for me was sufficient).
And, sorry, but i did not know that an e-mail is not a legal document. Basing on this principle, also a click in the EULA is not a legal document....
Anyway i understand that in the specific case, under a legal perspective, they can not base actions upon an e- mail (but, i note a very well identified e-mail, that they know as true from almost 4 years).
Your replies demonstrate that the advice i asked for is comming.
Thank you and Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
The power to you Ultra, don't hear the voices try to discourage you. I bet they paid shills.
You is absolutely right with this concern.
SOE has given officially guarantee to you for you have the right your private data being deleted at request and provided a email address.
IF this email address is not working, then
a) they have to fix it or provide you new working one (it is ridiculous they don't changed and fixed the wrong address the moment you point out it isn't working)
b)redirect you email to the right receiver
.....
My impression :
they play games with u and hope for , you give up on time or cause of the costs.
I am not a lawyer but i think publicity is your friend , you done a good job presenting SOE faulty dirty tricks to make business out of your private data.
Continue with publicity pressure and if they close cases open new ones till you get your right.
------
About the letter :
If these email not working what makes you believe that the address for letter is correct ?
I would mention in the next email that i don't believe that the address they given me for sending the letter is working and the risk to sending a letter is too high.
-----
About the phone :
If an email is not a legal document , how can a phone call be?
-------
Can you report the SOE's broken email address to other customer protection / privacy protection organizations agencys ? The more the merrier and then watch them "doing everything in their disposal for their cause"
But, to let all understand, i had to write that entire "monster" of coloured original post.
You went right to the "core" of the problem. i PERFECTLY know that they give me alternative methods (physical mail, phone call).
Still remains the facts you have summarized.
And, i can assure, my ideals aren't gone. Still solid as rock.
3 the possibilities i foresee:
OR they settle the question;
OR they update Privacy Policy and faul e-mail address.
OR they learn to communicate between internal departments.
I am also not a lawyer, but i think i am not asking a stupid thing.
errmmm.. sorry 4th possibility: i continue for a couple year or more to ask the same question, without success.... time will judge, and i have ALLLOOTTT of time.
Thank you very much again for the support.
Bye Bye ULTRASPARC
Game developer makes a game. It is a class and level based game. The instruction manual explains that in orer to level you can go kill monsters, or go perform various quests for NPC's through out the realm, or go kil other players in pitched combative duels. You rush out and try to kill another player, but due to them being more experiene, better players, and having better gear, they massacre you horribly. Outraged, you stage a protest crying in a lou voice that you tried to kill someone and it did not work, and now you will not accept any form of progression other than an "I win" button. As you have not attempted the other methods provided, and the one method of advancement you DID attempt was a pathetic attempt at bet which you barely even tried at... in the end, all you are doing is crying and demanding an "I win" button. Sorry, that is not the way the game of life works. But if crying loudly makes you happy, enjoy. Be sure to drink plenty tho so your forced tears do not dehydrate you to the point of fatality.
I think, this is not about an "I win" button, but more about principles.
If you are told that you can do one thing and then that one thing doesn't work, wouldn't you want the person telling you that to correct the information they are disseminating? Regardless of alternatives, a person, or entity, is now knowingly putting out false information. That is the issue.
The OP already said his ultimate goal is not to have the data deleted (although I am sure that would be desired), but to make someone live up to what they said was a valid method to accomplish a task.
Alternately, suppose a person makes three statements. One of those statements is a lie. You take an action based on the statement that happens to be a lie. Would it be acceptable if that person explained away the situation with a something like "well, my other two statements *might not* be lies".
Congrats to the OP for having principles and the patience to stick to them.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
sorry but fyi i am not crying....
I am only sitting of the riverside (do you remember that ancient chinese proverb...), well feed, and with a large water reserve.
Fortunately, life is smiling to me... and hope this will continue. Maybe with a little mail from SOE, that could make me more happy than i already am.
In the contrary case, i have no worry: its sufficient that atm 103 people in 3 hours read the story, and maybe someone could give me alternative solutions...dunno...
/salute
ULTRASPARC
Has stopped to fight, and is not crying: he is simply sitting on the riverside.
No, it is not about getting the information removed. He did state that. He also stated he tried one of several venues, and the people he contacted informed him it was not in their power to make the change. So his "Principle" is that he wants things done his way or no way. I am sorry, bu that is not principle at all. Do not get me wrong, I think SoE is wrong for not abiding their stated methods of removal. If they say that someone can email in to have something removed, they should do so. Absolutely! Having worked in the industry, I do also understand that there are limits to what each "level of administration" can and can not do. In some cases, yes, it does have to go to another level which would mean using a different means of communication, be it a phone call or personal letter. That fact is being ignored by the OP however, as the OP "Requests peoples advice" and then promptly shoots down any advice people give that does not pat him on the back and support what he WANTS to do. That is not a principle. That is simple stubbornness. I have known of farm animals with equal level of "Principle."
sorry but fyi i am not crying....
I am only sitting of the riverside (do you remember that ancient chinese proverb...), well feed, and with a large water reserve.
Fortunately, life is smiling to me... and hope this will continue. Maybe with a little mail from SOE, that could make me more happy than i already am.
In the contrary case, i have no worry: its sufficient that atm 103 people in 3 hours read the story, and maybe someone could give me alternative solutions...dunno...
/salute
ULTRASPARC
Has stopped to fight, and is not crying: he is simply sitting on the riverside.
You have been given alternate solutions. You refuse to do them. You would rather write long posts asking people to rally behind you and hate on SOE a litte, maybe tell you what a good boy you are and give you a biscuit? I am afraid that if you ment what you said, that you want alternate solutions, you would be a man of your word and accept the ones tht have been given and act upon them. Not to say mine specifically. You defeat your own argument here my friend. I am sure there are enough SOE haters on te forum to make you feel better about yourself though, as that seems your true goal. If you do mean what you say however, well... actions speak louder than words.
No, it is not about getting the information removed. He did state that. He also stated he tried one of several venues, and the people he contacted informed him it was not in their power to make the change. So his "Principle" is that he wants things done his way or no way. I am sorry, bu that is not principle at all. Do not get me wrong, I think SoE is wrong for not abiding their stated methods of removal. If they say that someone can email in to have something removed, they should do so. Absolutely! Having worked in the industry, I do also understand that there are limits to what each "level of administration" can and can not do. In some cases, yes, it does have to go to another level which would mean using a different means of communication, be it a phone call or personal letter. That fact is being ignored by the OP however, as the OP "Requests peoples advice" and then promptly shoots down any advice people give that does not pat him on the back and support what he WANTS to do. That is not a principle. That is simple stubbornness. I have known of farm animals with equal level of "Principle."
Hi Sunder,
only to assure you that my "stubborness" or "I win" stances remains the same.
Unfortunately i think i am right. And i am not alone, ahving already received a pat on the back.
About upper levels of administration to go.... please be patient: it seems to me that thosel kind of "farm animals" you refere are not here... but i have seen something like that in some organization (or just to be clear in some blind and messed organizations), that, instead of listen and use the brain, are like robots (with bad programming inside), trained to answer like "battery chicken".
Anyway, i continue to respect your point of wiew, and thank you for your advice, letting you decide if continue to support or not. Because, in fact you are supporting me, causing reactions on others and bringing the thread alive.
Nevertheless, if giving advice or commenting the matter makes you angry, or drives you to make mmmhmmm... how to say... not very nice comparisons... no problem! I apologize for the reaction caused, and hope you can re-read well the entire case and re-consider your point of wiev.
Some posters have already very well explained the core of the problem.
Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
Still sitting on the famous riverside......
to quote the one of the ops posts on page one which contradicts your opening statement:
"Lol, as you can understand my goal is not to have the data deleted: dunno if this will ever happen.
I dont want to call, or fax, or write a physical letter."
Now that said, SOE claims to adhere to a specific procedure. From what I gather, they claim to adhere to certain trade group procedures. End result, they do neither. The debate comes down to two possible views. Either you think the OP is being principled, or you think the OP is being stubborn. It certainly doesn't hurt the OP's case that this story involves everyone's favorite villain.
However, to the OP's points, it does seem awfully ironic that he could accept a EULA, change his contact information, or adjust his payment options with no issues. The latter two of these tasks involve modifying the account data. Isn't a deletion just a glorified modification? Why is it unreasonable to expect that the this request could be handled via the same channels (or the privacy policey updated to reflect the descrepency)?
To sum up what I originally said though, if someone says you can do something a certain way, you expect that to be the case. If it turns out you can't, you are well within your right to find fault with that and, as consumer based economics allow, share your experience with other consumers.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Good n8 all.
bedtime here. Thanks all for the contribution.
See ya
ULTRASPARC
Remain sit on the riverside, and will keep you informed on evolutions.
No, it is not about getting the information removed. He did state that. He also stated he tried one of several venues, and the people he contacted informed him it was not in their power to make the change. So his "Principle" is that he wants things done his way or no way. I am sorry, bu that is not principle at all. Do not get me wrong, I think SoE is wrong for not abiding their stated methods of removal. If they say that someone can email in to have something removed, they should do so. Absolutely! Having worked in the industry, I do also understand that there are limits to what each "level of administration" can and can not do. In some cases, yes, it does have to go to another level which would mean using a different means of communication, be it a phone call or personal letter. That fact is being ignored by the OP however, as the OP "Requests peoples advice" and then promptly shoots down any advice people give that does not pat him on the back and support what he WANTS to do. That is not a principle. That is simple stubbornness. I have known of farm animals with equal level of "Principle."
Hi Sunder,
only to assure you that my "stubborness" or "I win" stances remains the same.
Unfortunately i think i am right. And i am not alone, ahving already received a pat on the back.
About upper levels of administration to go.... please be patient: it seems to me that thosel kind of "farm animals" you refere are not here... but i have seen something like that in some organization (or just to be clear in some blind and messed organizations), that, instead of listen and use the brain, are like robots (with bad programming inside), trained to answer like "battery chicken".
Anyway, i continue to respect your point of wiew, and thank you for your advice, letting you decide if continue to support or not. Because, in fact you are supporting me, causing reactions on others and bringing the thread alive.
Nevertheless, if giving advice or commenting the matter makes you angry, or drives you to make mmmhmmm... how to say... not very nice comparisons... no problem! I apologize for the reaction caused, and hope you can re-read well the entire case and re-consider your point of wiev.
Some posters have already very well explained the core of the problem.
Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
Still sitting on the famous riverside......
Oh no, I am not angry at all. I am also very well aware that each time I post or respond I am "Bumping" your thread ad keeping it alive. As I originally stated, I do agree tht Sony should stand behind their word. In the end, if you do not accept the advice tht people have been giving (To proceed in other fahions other than strictly the email) you are in fact no better than SoE because you do not stand behind what you say either. That remains to be seen. At any rate, no anger or malice on my end at all. Not my style
I beg to differ. Its tiring to hear this whole "you are just trying to be difficult" argument whether it be about the deletion of his own personal data that he is legally right to request or refusing to show a receipt when asked by store security. True, you could be the "bigger" person so to speak and allow your rights to be infringed a bit just to appease those who would impede upon your personal rights but then again - some people refuse to take one more step back and to me, its commendable.
Frankly, you keep pointing to the fact that he has been given alternatives. True, he has. But to me thats kinda like having a sign saying your place of business is handicap accessible and then telling those with wheelchairs that in order to get in - they need to rent one of your wheelchairs (at cost to them) and your door simply cannot allow the one they brought.
Its not about nitpicking but your civil and legal rights should be defended because most assuredly, a corporation will violate them for the sake of ease or to acheive their own purposes. That call wasn't toll free. That letter option is a joke. A laughable one at that. Why? Because they obtained his or her information electronically and under the contract that he has cut and pasted in this thread and in his email. Nowhere in that mess of legalese did it say that it would cost money to have his information deleted electronically. Frankly, I will call it what it is - its a simple obstacle to prevent the deletion of records. True, after the first couple of letters...most likely the registered mail one and a few weeks - the info will be deleted. But that ISNT the point, is it? They are required by law to HONOR the options that they presented.
By his putting up a fight for what he is entitled to, it will eventually cause someone to hold them accountable and to fix the email address "error". Its efforts like this that people mock as petty but praise when it happens to them. You know, that whole handicap accessible law, listing ingredients on the cartons and oversight of student loan stipulations and practices kinda thing.
His effort is detailed with numerous attempts. Just because he won't pay to a corporation's error fixed doesn't make him obstanant. It just makes the world one person less in the whole "I'll bend over because its what they tell me I should do" category.
Company's written policy says send email request to a particular email address to have personal info. deleted. That address is invalid. Unacceptable.
Customer is redirected and sends email request in accordance with company's written policy, and is told essentially, "no, we will not do what our policy says we will do." Also unacceptable.
What's the issue? The company's behaviour blatantly contradicts their public policy. Quite simply, SOE's policy and behaviour need to match. Judging from the OP, they do not. It's a problem.
SOE has a reputation for telling its customers really anything they want, and then doing something else. This just strikes me as another example.
Anytime SOE tells people one thing and then actually does something completely different, a good place to report this behaviour is here: https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01.
I just recommend that this link be used when SOE's behaviour clearly contradicts something they have publically stated, that the contradiction can be clearly demonstrated, and that disadvantages to the consumer can be highlighted. My two cents.
Other examples of clear contradictions that come to mind are of course SOE saying that squad leaders and rangers would be revamped and have a more important role in the game. They were then deleted. Also, SOE promising new creatures to be tamed in their expansion, then taming creatures was deleted right after the expansion went live. I also seem to remember them promising to restore the force ranking system after it was fixed. It was never restored. Still others have said SOE told them jedi would never be a starting profession, and of course the infamous, the Combat Upgrade is here to stay comment from Smed. The Combat Upgrade was replaced a few months later by the NGE, that also introduced jedi as a starting profession. I might as well add Smed's promise to fast track server mergers, and the dev team's promise to fix collision detection. Both still unfulfilled. The collision detection fix was promised on Nov. 16, 2005, btw.
What's disturbing about all of this, is that people probably paid for additional subscription time based on some or all of this misleading information. Very disturbing indeed.
No, it is not about getting the information removed. He did state that. He also stated he tried one of several venues, and the people he contacted informed him it was not in their power to make the change. So his "Principle" is that he wants things done his way or no way. I am sorry, bu that is not principle at all. Do not get me wrong, I think SoE is wrong for not abiding their stated methods of removal. If they say that someone can email in to have something removed, they should do so. Absolutely! Having worked in the industry, I do also understand that there are limits to what each "level of administration" can and can not do. In some cases, yes, it does have to go to another level which would mean using a different means of communication, be it a phone call or personal letter. That fact is being ignored by the OP however, as the OP "Requests peoples advice" and then promptly shoots down any advice people give that does not pat him on the back and support what he WANTS to do. That is not a principle. That is simple stubbornness. I have known of farm animals with equal level of "Principle."
Hi Sunder,
only to assure you that my "stubborness" or "I win" stances remains the same.
Unfortunately i think i am right. And i am not alone, ahving already received a pat on the back.
About upper levels of administration to go.... please be patient: it seems to me that thosel kind of "farm animals" you refere are not here... but i have seen something like that in some organization (or just to be clear in some blind and messed organizations), that, instead of listen and use the brain, are like robots (with bad programming inside), trained to answer like "battery chicken".
Anyway, i continue to respect your point of wiew, and thank you for your advice, letting you decide if continue to support or not. Because, in fact you are supporting me, causing reactions on others and bringing the thread alive.
Nevertheless, if giving advice or commenting the matter makes you angry, or drives you to make mmmhmmm... how to say... not very nice comparisons... no problem! I apologize for the reaction caused, and hope you can re-read well the entire case and re-consider your point of wiev.
Some posters have already very well explained the core of the problem.
Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
Still sitting on the famous riverside......
Oh no, I am not angry at all. I am also very well aware that each time I post or respond I am "Bumping" your thread ad keeping it alive. As I originally stated, I do agree tht Sony should stand behind their word. In the end, if you do not accept the advice tht people have been giving (To proceed in other fahions other than strictly the email) you are in fact no better than SoE because you do not stand behind what you say either. That remains to be seen. At any rate, no anger or malice on my end at all. Not my style
The OP is quite simply insisting that SOE follow their own policy. Interesting that you find fault with that. Insisting that a company follow it's own policy certainly does not make a customer, "no better than" the service provider who has said one thing and then clearly done another.SOE should clearly follow their own policy in this matter. If they want to change their policy, then they should go ahead and change it, and then act accordingly. This customer, however, is entitled to the treatment s/he was told in writing that s/he would receive.
Greetings,
here my last mail to SOE, written taking into consideration some good advice received from friends that have contributed to the thread.
QUOTE
Subject: Incident nbr. xxxxxxxxx, Marked "solved on 12/05/2008
Greetings,
I have take note of your suggestions, for which i thank you (your last post in the incident thread of 20/05/2008 TSR xxxxx).I try to answer you in that thread but does not work, probably because you consider the matter "solved" on 12/05/2008 (notwithstanding your last post was made on 20/05/2008).
In the other mail (sent to my address) you say: "if this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction, you may reopen it or add additional comments within the next 7 days."
I would be grateful if you could re-consider the matter, taking into into account that, unfortunately, the 3 methods you indicate have different costs:
1) the e-mail message is for me costless;
2) sending a physical mail have costs;
3) errors excepted, the phone number provided is not toll free, and this means for me the cost of an international call.
Moreover, your Privacy Policy (revision 17th april 2007) clearly states the different method as "options" at my disposal. But you confirmed me that your email is "not in service at this time". I suggest to fix the service, or update your Privacy Policy with a working e-mail, or deleting the e-mail "options" that -at the evidence-is useless.
I am not a lawyer, and frankly dont understand the reason why i cannot get my data deleted (except for data may be required by law) upon a request that i have made with my personal e-mail, very well know by you for almost 4 years, and still the same.
Alot of companies and multinational corporations do that around Europe without any delay, upon a simple mail request.
At the end, i would assure that a simple e-mail confirmation "data deleted", duly signed, is sufficient for me to settle the entire question.
Hoping to hear from you soon,
Regards
UNQUOTE
Now i am waiting for a reply.... errmmm... i am hoping !
/salute
ULTRASPARC
will keep you informed.