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When will the Grind stop!
launitz18
Member Posts: 23
When will there be a game without that crappy grind, where you can play for 10mins or 5 hours and say the whole time was fun. I am hoping that is what is going to happen with Guild Wars, at least that is what it seems like. I am sick of spending an hour to get one percent higher to the next level.
Comments
I'm not neccesarily saying to completely get rid of the grind, im just saying to make it so it doesn't take quite as long and more importantly make it fun and based off of skill instead of just who has more time to play. I like MMORPG's, but because I can't devote my whole life to them like some people, I never get to a very high level. If you could make the grind different, so you actually get levels by doing things that require skill and fun instead of endless hours of point and clicking.
This is why I am looking forward to Guild Wars. It is free per month.
Make the levels skill based. That is what I am trying to say. That way you could play for 10 mins or a half hour and say you had fun and maybe even gained a level. I don't know exactly how it would work, as I am not a game designer, but I do have a lot of good ideas that would make these games more fun.
I do play first person shooters which require skill. But I like MMORPG's as well.
Still begs the question why are you bothered if you get to a high level or not.
Honestly,if it does not bother you then it should not matter.I played DAoC from the day it launched,used the same char(already made my decision in beta) with no change whatsoever at at all.
I only had about 2 hours max to play per day that year.So it took me over 1 year with same character to get to 50.Did i get bothered along the way?nope.
I played as i could and levelling never bothered me since i only did it mainly on weekends and one hour here and there.So it was actually fun since i did not "grind".
I was not in any race despite been in a guild very involved in RvR.I probably even enjoyed the game more because i took time also to do quest.
To be honest if it was so easy to get max skills/levels maybe i would not even have lasted 6 months in DAoC.I would be maximum level in 1 month then have absolutely nothing to do but be like those bitching on boards about lack of content because since i have nothing to do but explore i would eat thru the quest and content faster then it would be possible to program it.
There are ways of making the grind easier/shorter, like the rest state in WoW, or there are skill based games like Eve Online where there are no 'levels'. I personally dont mind a long grind, as long as its a) varied and relatively fun and most importantly b) there are plenty of other things to do besides grinding. In DAoC the grind was preety bad for the last 10 levels, but because of the realm vs realm combat that was constantly going on there were things you could do besides leveling.
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Played: AC1, DAoC, E&B, SWG
Tested: AC1, AC2, DAoC, Eve, Lineage 2, RYL
Uninstalled ASAP: MU Online, Knight Online, Rubies of Eventide
Grinding is the bane of all games...unfortunately there is little that anyone can do to stop it.
EVE and MEO have time based skill systems so that elliminates one aspect of grinding. In EVE people grind for money, in MEO I would bet it will be the same.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
I think a hint of grinding is ok, it adds to the gameplay, depending on the game, you could get worthwile items, if you are in a mood to just kill stuff. If you don't want to grind run a few missions or go exploring.
The DAoC, Planetside, AC2 grinds are fun.
The SWG grind, is boring as hell.
all depends on what you want to do, if you are in a rush to hit that next level, then every game you play could potentially be a grind.
In a situation where the game is totally grind dependent because of lack of content, then simply don't support the game, don't pay for the subscription, and then maybe gameplay adjustments through patches or expansions could happen.
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Current:
SWG:
Corbantis-Techno Destructo
Planetside:
Markov-vactoxic(KIA)
Markov-blackacidevil
DAoC:
Merlin-hexfix
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Past:
Neocron(best ghost town simulator EVAR!),EQ,EQOA,AO,CoH,FFXI,Outpost Beta,EVE
Current Games:
"When will the grind end?"
-When GuildWars is released
Just joking. There will always be MMOs out there with grinds, it is just that simple. The reason is that there will always be people who likes to grind, as there will always be people who dislikes grinds.
I think the problem isn't the grind. The problem is, is that is it's boring.
The problem is, its very rare in a game for the road to the destination to be fun, and not the thought of the destination that pressures you to keep on.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
I agree, even though I really enjoyed DAoC's quest system.
Lineage 2- The most boring and long grind of them all
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Well here it is people, the truth of the story, the end-all-end-all fact about mmorpgs?
Grind=mmorpg.
Period. Be it for money, be it for levels, be it for realm points, be it for ranks. There will always be a grind, for many reasons.
I'll explain it from different views.
Developers - They have to have enough content, and and features which require players to spend alot more time playing, if they made it so you get to high level really fast, then youll wear yourself out and have nothing to do, and you'll end up quitting, and they want you to play for a long time to keep getting your money. Basicly the longer you play the more money they get.
Players Type 1(the occassional gamer) Version 1 - they don't have much time to spend, maybe 1-3 hours a day(if they are lucky). They want something they can have fun with right away, this is the people who enjoy CoH. Grinds aren't for them because they can't spend alot of time playing. Gunbound and maybe GW when it comes out ionno, (it may turn grindy itself, only time can tell).
Player Type 1(the occassional gamer) Version 2 - they don't have much time to spend, about the same as v1, yet they can play a real grindy game and have fun with it, they just spend their time playing it and enjoying it, and not really feeling the grind, just having fun with their level(like in daoc theres always something to do, level, craft, hang out with guild, RvR) They dont feel the rush to get to the highest level, they are enjoying what they are doing now.
Player Type 2(the heavy gamer) Version 1 - They get 5-10 hours a day to play games, they spend alot of time playing mmorpgs, they constantly feel the rush so they spend all their time leveling, doing nothing else but kill kill kill, and wonder why its gets boring fast. They wear out games faster then you wear out shoes while running on hot coals. (i unfortunetly am part of this category, im trying to be like the next type im going to list though).
Player Type 2(the heavy gamer) Version 2 - they have the same amount of time as version 1, but when they play their games they spend alot of time doing things besides grinding, for example in ragnarok online, they would spend alot of time just talking with people and helping out their friends, and spend very little time actually leveling, sure they may not get high levels as fast as others, but they have fun doing it, they don't care what level they are, they enjoy fighting monsters, just as much as they enjoy hanging out. Games tend to last them years, because they can spend time just PLAYING the game, and not grinding.
These are the 4 types of people who play mmorpgs, and i just have to say that there will never be a mmorpg for the version 1s, they need to play mmofps or just plain fps. Sure they may love the mmorpg genre, its just that the way they play the games are not suitable for a mmorpg, which is supposed to offer a variety of things to do.
people hate grinds because they love leveling, I don't mind a grind if its done well ie daoc, but when the grind is done wrong - L2, thats what i don't like. The thing about mmorpgs is that they have to be massive which means huge areas and lots of other features. And there is no way you can do that without having a grind, because if you can do everything from the beginning youll get bored even faster.
Well, as Bladin hinted on, if you dont like the grind you may be playing the wrong genre. Roleplaying games have always been about character building - and that requires you to invest time into your character. From the old basic blue book D&D, to text MUDs, to today's MMORPGs - you have to work your way up the ladder. For a lot of people (mostly my fellow Americans who have grown up in this era of instant gratification), this just isnt the type of game for you.
The point of the game isnt to be easy, it's supposed to be hard to reach the highest levels. Heck, most people should not reach the highest levels. There should be fewer and fewer players as you go up the ladder scale. If you think EQ or DAoC has tough grinds, try playing some of the old text MUDs out there. I guarantee you wouldnt last a week. I played one for 3.5 years and was level 42 (maximum level is 100+), and I was pretty high level. 5 years later I went back and there were 3 people in my class that were level 100, and they had been about level 50 when I left.
The problem on the grind (to me anyways) is this:
Say there is a monthy update but you have to be XX level to participate, you're a low-level casual player grinding to get to the next level (as bad as leveling is in say FFXI), by the time you get high enough to participate, the event is over. Happened too many times to me in AC.
Now I love exploring the world and doing the quests for my level, I just think it is the devs fault that we feel the grind when an update includes only highlow level content. It should be balanced where everyone of all levels could participate.
Just a little off-topic side note of one of my complaints...When will we actually see an MMORPG that actually delivers the promise of "Your characters actions dynamically change the world/story". Every mmorpg that I played basically bases the outcome on predertermined choices that they have already programmed. The world needs to be more interactive to keep the devs and the players on their toes.
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33.333333333333336% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
Killer 100%
Achiever 53%
Explorer 33%
Socializer 13%
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The problem with this logic and desire is that anything a low level player can do, a higher level player can do _MUCH_ better.(usually)
A) Why take 20 low level players when 1 high level player will suffice?
In order to have a quest for low level players you must PREVENT high level players from participateing. This upsets the high level players, who have worked hard for their levels. The only way to make it 'fair' is to have so many events that nobody can participate in them all...And THAT is hard as hell to do, not to mention EXPENSIVE to hire good talent to run the events.
What a lot of would-be game designers have trouble understanding is that there's usually a REASON nobody is doing these things in any current MMORPG. That reason usually comes down to money. People come up with all of these wonderful ideas...but when it comes time to spend 50 million to make the game they can't find anyone willing to pay for them....So they get scaled down, and scaled down, and eventually you end up with a rehashed version of EQ or Lineage.