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Where have all of the unique classes gone?
Ghost12
Member Posts: 684
I used to play Dark Age of Camelot. DAOC ranks up there as #2, where my best MMO experience its held by AC. But DAOC still was fun as hell to play and I played that game for about 3 years before quitting. Dont get me wrong, Mythic is a great company (in fact I still have their DAOC poster up in my room which I should take down, but I always hesitate because it looks so cool).
I remember playing on DAOC and I remember the loads of class choices that were availible to you. These classes were unique in their own right and combined with the ability to specialize and customize your character, this made for many possibilities. To give you an idea, I'll list all of the Albion classes. In fact, just to cut it down, I'll list all of the CLASSIC Albion classes - the originals that came with the game during release.
Armsman - The basic footsoldier of Albion. Able to wear all armor and use all weapons effectively, including crossbows.
Cabalist - Spellcasters that study control magic, they usually use a pet along with crowd control castings, alongside damage over time spells.
Cleric - Even though they were designed to be the primary healing class, clerics turned out to be a powerful force on the battlefield with smiting abilities.
Friar - The friar is a really INTERESTING class in which it is a hybrid cleric and fighter, you go around in light cloth armor swining a stave beating ass and yet also healing and protecting.
Infiltrator - Pretty much your basic assassin class.
Mercenary - Interesting hybrid, you run around dual weilding with chainmail and you get a set of unique abilities to use on your own. Merc had alot of offensive power.
Minstrel - Minstrels were based on the rogue base class that used songs to enhance the group and other spells like crowd control sleep. Awsome class.
Paladin - Paladins were tanks, they used heavy armor and used weapons but at the same time, were able to use these abilities called chants to help their party, or themselves. Very interesting.
Scout - The archer class. keep in mind they still used shields and swords.
Sorceror - This is probably the most balancing casting classes of the realm, sorcerors had Direct damage spells as well with DOTS and crowd control, and also could submit a pet under their control for a set amount of time.
Theurgist - As if the casting classes couldnt get any unique, the Theurgist is able to use both damage spells and also summon creatures in combat for a short amount of time. These bad boys were some of the most unique classes in DAOC - you would see a theurgist spamming his summon spells in combat and see a wave of air, earth or ice creatures mob a single target.
Wizard - The offensive spellcasters of DAOC.
And these are only ONE out of the THREE realms starting classes! Whats the point of showing you all this information, you ask? Well lets take a look at WAR's starting classes -
Black Orc. Choppa. Goblin Shaman. Goblin Squig Herder. Done.
Witch Hunter. Knight of the Blazing Sun. Warrior Priest. Bright Wizard. Done. Can you guess what each role is?
Thats it?
These classes cannot be so ARCHETYPAL! Holy mother of God, can anything be so more plain? You have your tank, your melee DPS, your support, and your ranged DPS. Four classes to each realm. Four basic Archetypes. What ever happened to interesting hybrid classes? This class cutting leaves a real bad taste in my mouth. None of these classes seem interesting at all. Every single one of them have a clear defined role, none of the lines are blurry. What do I do as a Knight? Tank crap. What do I do as a Black Orc? You guessed it. Tank crap. What do I do as a Goblin shaman? Buff people and then heal them. Because none of the other classes in my realm do it.
I can tolerate the use of classes, but please, make it a big more varied. Four classes per realm, using the four basic archetype roles for all classes? What the hell. It looks like everyone is going to be forced into a corner for the role in their character. Yes, there are masterties, buy WHY specialize in offense as a Black Orc when your primary role is defense?
Bullcrap.
Comments
Troll or you have absolutly no idea what you are talking about
Peace
Yes, each race have tank, healer, and M/Rdps class but for example.. Zealot, Disciple and Shaman.. all are healer but works completly different. So next time..make some more research to do not look like idiot.
Sorry, but I did not understand one thing you were talking about lol.
Playing: Nada.
Played: WAR, LOTRO, EVE, WoW, EQ2, SWG, STO
Waiting: TOR
You just listed 12 classes for 1 realm in DaOC. there are 12 classes per realm in WAR. 4 per race, 3 races per realm.
I hate to break it to you but there are 4 types of classes in all MMOs, tanks DPS CC and healing. DPS can include archers, casters, dagger, big smashy type classes. just because casters effect your Mdef and the big smashy guys effect your Pdef doesn't mean they arn't the same thing. currently DaOC has a whole lot of classes, which overlap greatly. Its the same way in every MMO, some even less (GW though not a true MMO even lacks true CC).
War doesn't try to hide it. It says out loud "We have 4 types of classes, we just try to make them play diffrently instead of pretending they are completely diffrent" A shammy using the WAAAGH is similar to a rune priest, however they play vastly diffrently. Same role, diffrent style.
So 12 classes per side, 4 roles, 3 diffrent ways to play them per side. Seems fine to me.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Op is actually correct in having some frustration over class diversity, and a big part of this has to do with Mythics stance against stealth. Not having stealth eliminates some of the daoc classes. But I have to agree, I would like to see more classes that are hybrid, rather then them seemingly just saying "yes they do the same thing, they just do it differently" , but to me I would rather see 5-6 classes for each race, one as a hybrid. Just so one there is more diversity, and two (because of the diversity) open up more strategy, because having an extra class or two per race opens up many new ideas, and makes it harder for someone to master a game, because that 5th or 6th extra class may always be able to counter your strategy because of how he operates.
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Mythic learned about having so many classes. Balancing is a pain in the arse. Now I'm not saying they didn't learn from it from DAoC, but they don't want to go through the hassle this time I think. There's always a chance they can add more later, and besides, there will be role diversity within each class. A warrior priest can do damage or heal, just like a WoW pally, except WAR will be much more friendly to "ret pallies" than WoW ever was.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Op is actually correct in having some frustration over class diversity, and a big part of this has to do with Mythics stance against stealth. Not having stealth eliminates some of the daoc classes. But I have to agree, I would like to see more classes that are hybrid, rather then them seemingly just saying "yes they do the same thing, they just do it differently" , but to me I would rather see 5-6 classes for each race, one as a hybrid. Just so one there is more diversity, and two (because of the diversity) open up more strategy, because having an extra class or two per race opens up many new ideas, and makes it harder for someone to master a game, because that 5th or 6th extra class may always be able to counter your strategy because of how he operates.
I think right now Mythic is getting the core classes and the game polished to perfection and making sure everything is gonna meld together and all the RvR will be well balanced. Later then when they can dip into the bottomless pit of races/classes they could add to WAR is when they can start adding in more hybrid types!
...and as far as no stealth goes, fuck yeah I love ya Mythic...finally someone cares about "all" their customers and not just the PvP ones and they're making it fair for everyone.
There are tons of classes in WAR. They all fill a basic need. Tank, healer, dps, CC. Though they fill the same need, they all play differently. Some are similar to one in another in mechanics, but they are still unique to play.
I have played various classes in the beta. I can tell you they all play differently. Though some are very similar like a Bright Wizard and Sorc, they still have a unique feel to them.
For example, I have played a DOK, Shaman and Runepriest. They all play way differently.
You also have to understand that Mythic has to keep with the Lore and background of Warhammer. This isn't Mythic's IP they can do what they want to, it's very heavily guarded by Gamesworkshop. The classes play very similar roles as they do in the table top game and story of Warhammer.
I obviously can't eloborate or I will break the EULA, but class variety is not a problem with this game. In fact sometimes it's a little to much to deal with.
Meh - It leaves room for new classes in expansions and the classes do fit the warhammer IP.
There are actually plenty of classes IMO. This is actually the first MMO that I could see myself Happily playing any of the announced classes
True but they are giving Mythic a lot of freedom as long as they ok it first! Previous lore for Dark Elves, there was no healing class, and Mythic was allowed to create the Disciple of Khaine from thin air basically. So that alone is gonna be awesome since GW is allowing new stuff being added to their lore.
Dark Age of Camelot (on release) = 36 Classes into 3 realms for 12 classes a realm.
Warhammer (on release) = 24 Classes into 2 realms for 12 classes a realm.
What seems to be the problem?
STOP WHINING!
Very true, and I think that is one of the major reasons why we have such clear cut classes. I remember DAOC having many balancing issues that Mythic had to deal with. Having to balance 12 classes per 3 realms was extremely difficult. Ironically, I knew many players that didnt really give a damn about it, either. I know I didnt.
It just kills me to see such blatant archetypes. I guess its pretty much inevitable though, if youre going to have 3 realms per Side. Creating hybrids would be a real pain, I agree. Dont get me wrong...I think WAR will be a great game for sure, after all I did enjoy DAOC, I just hope they come out with some more varied and interesting classes than the same old tank dps healer etc etc. Not all MMO's have such clear cut roles. I for one love playing hybrids and cannot stand playing a class that shoots fireballs over and over, or stands there and acts as a meatshield without doing much else.
For example, a WoW's druid, shammy and shadow priest all appealed to me because they could both deal damage and heal; and had varied ways of taking down enemies. The HoX of AoC appeals to me because he can use spells and attack enemies. His role is *not* clear.
I've played DAoC on and off for 3 years now- and the main reason I quit every single time is because of crappy class balance.
I agree that WAR's classes aren't THAT special, but with so much innovation and diversity comes overpower'd, underpowere'd and useless classes. I'll play this game regardless.
To the OP:
Hmm, maybe you should look into classes in more detail... They all have different core mechanics about how they perform their role:
For example:
Ranged DPS:
Bright Wizard - massive fire elemental damage but each spell builds up "combustion" - the higher it goes you do more damage but the chance for spells to backfire and blow you up rise as well
Squig Herder - ranged physical DPS with a pet that can have different types/roles
Shadow Warrior - Straight physical burst DPS with a collection of CC, snaring abilities
Engineer - physical ranged dps with "turrets" (something like shaman totems in wow) that do damage, debuff, cc etc...
Healer/support
Archmage - ranged dps/buff/debuffer + direct healer
Warrior Priest - close dps/tank + healer
Runepriest - buffer/debuffer + healer over time ( I think.. haven't read up on support classes that much)
etc.
I find the way classes are done almost crazily varied and I really hope Mythic manages to balance them well enough before release. Their archetype refers only to the role they're most likely to perform and not the way they do it.
... And if you're looking for a "jack of all trades" character I'm sure that almost all classes can get "despecialized" to some degree by choosing masteries that don't directly buff the archetype's role. I.e. Warrior Priest has a mastery tree that increases DPS, Shadow Warrior has one that deals with close combat exclusively etc.
I don't normally like responding to trolls but I'll give it a try. This game is all about PvP. Good, fair PvP requires that the classes be balanced otherwise the gameplay will be hopelessly broken. The more varied classes are the harder it will be to balance them. So you need to find a middle ground in order to make a successful game. At first Mythic was going to make the classes unique but what they found was that they were getting a lot of players who liked how a certain class played but didn't want to play the faction that they were on (the specific example I read was people who liked Bright Wizard but wanted to play Chaos). So Mythic decided to have it so that there would be classes with similar play styles on each side.
Games I've Played: WoW, FFXI, SWG, CoH, EVE Online
Games I'm Waiting for: WAR, Stargate Worlds
Hypbrids are just that hybrids they heal/tank/dps/buff/debuff/mez any combination and they are labeled dun dunadun! Support Class's so if you like support class's then i am pretty sure you will find them in WAR. But i have not looked into them in a while nore have i played CB so i can not tell you for sure.
The role of that druid is VERY known, its 1 of 3 things. Tanking, DPS, Healing.
That priest is DPS, nothing more nothing less. Shammy is the same thing. DPS, or Healing, cant do both well at the same time.
And if you would like to argue with me, get a druid speced and geared to tank. Now go heal with him. 3 2 1 he sucks. His role is defined as a tank. Switch his gear, now he sucks at tanking and healing.
So with that said thread over yea?
Honestly, I do not give a damn about how many classes there are compared to DAoC or any other game out there.
I much, much much much prefer to have fewer classes, BUT all with different mechanics, INSTEAD than having tons of classes with little difference from each other.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"