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After using AoC's forums, no official forums for WAR seems smart
Tierce
Member Posts: 49
When they first announced that there would be no official forums for Warhammer, I was disappointed with the development team. However, after experiencing the forums for Age of Conan, I'm starting to think that no official forums might actually be the better way to go. The AoC forums are full of useless arguments that do not help foster a stronger community nor better gameplay. It is mostly thread after thread of people arguing about how the game should be designed, or about which playstyle is superior to another, or about how people need to quit QQing and go back to WoW.
I think Mythic has picked up on this change in the MMORPG player populace. I think it started in WoW and has become worse from there. Official forums are no longer used for players to discuss gameplay, share information, and discuss current ingame events, or current RL events. Official forums are merely seen as a right to troll and post useless junk on a perceived important place where many will see it. Many see the forums as more of a game than the actual game.
This type of abuse of official forums will continue to increase. Gaming companies will continue to not be able to adequately moderate their forums in fear of losing customers, or causing more outbreaks of unhappy customers when they see their "rights" taken away. Unaffiliated private forums will just be able to do the job better. Look at the WoW forums and then look at the Elitist Jerks forums and its easy to tell which is better.
Anyways, not sure if I summed this up to well, but I think anyone else currently trying out Age of Conan will agree that their official forums have hit an all-time low in the quality of official MMORPG gaming forums. It's literally like falling into the trash compactor on the Death Star and wading through junk while some monster tries to pull you underwater and drown you. Seems that the overall MMORPG player base has degraded to a point where giving them a "right" to a forum no longer works.
Comments
Yeah I give them props for aborting this problem before it is born. WAR is going to attract many of the same people that make the wow and aoc forums what they are, you can't get around that. Not to mention how many bad design decisions are influenced by whining on the forums. So many more negative changes are made than positive ones, simply to placate the vocal minority.
I think they at WAR at least have the insight to see that and it bodes well for instilling trust in their rationality and decision making process, they're off to a *great* start already by simply cutting the head off the beast before it's had a chance to even spawn.
I 100% disagree with this. Sure the AoC forums are filled with useless whine posts much like the WoW forums. However, they are also an invaluable sorce for players to share information, make friends, find solutions to issues etc. Not having any forums and having the community scattered all over the internet is a major strike agaist WAR.
No forums are fine with me since I hardly ever visit them for MMOs in development, but after a game goes live; providing a subscribers only forums would be nice!
Mythic has never had official forums.....they've been one of the only companies to work without them and still build a perfectly good community LONG before and hopefully after WoW. Their decision has nothing to do with the WoW or the AoC factor.
Anyone that uses a forum to 'find friends' to play the game should spend more time in game making friends thats the whole point of the game is socialization. But ..when you have FFA PvP types.....it doesn't matter what you have...you either come into the game with friends or pray to god you impress someone enough so they dont kill you constantly.
The best information is always found on 3rd party sites, because it'll be catalogued and sorted so you don't spend X days searching through X million posts on random subjects that might have a similiar word or phrase you used to search.
Techincal Issues - well that one could be a given...but at the sametime it'll be on every fan site as well and oft times even the official site will have some sort of technical support...you don't need a troll infested forum in order to seek help.
Other than possible technical issues beyond player help...there's really no TRUE need for an official forum. DAoC proved that...they were able to give the community what they asked for without official forums(though ToA was a mistake one could blame that on the community that begged for it in the first place, still they rectified that by putting out servers sans ToA).
The only other game that tried this yes flubbed but it had nothing to do with lack of forums and everything to do with horrible management & lack of a clear direction, not to mention a host of still existing development / bug issues.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
@Deathstiny - I just don't think players really can share information well on official forums anymore because they are so bogged down with trolls and useless threads, all of which is barely moderated. It's becoming too hard to find the useful information amongst the junk, and hard to have good discussion with all the trolls. At this point I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people just posting arguments to argue, whether they agree with what they are posting or not.
@Elvenangel - I guess for me the pinnacle of official forums were those for Star Wars Galaxies. Some things are just too complex to discuss ingame, you need to see it in document form. It's hard to show a table of information over tells ingame. I still feel that forums are useful to gaming communities, but when they are given along with your subscription, people feel like it is a right to use them. When third parties run and moderate them, it is easier to keep a lid on the discussion and keep things neutral and productive.
I agree with you on this, I can just as easily go to a well-moderated fansite and get (more) mature responses from people I know play the game. Otherwise why would they go to a fansite? If there's technical issues or whatnot, that's where I know to go. Or, even better, if someone can help me in-game. Official forums may not be a total waste but they are not necessary.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
There are forums for WAR already and the DEV visit them frenquently, and mmorpg is not one of them.
Yes instead of giving a good forum for your players that have bought your game, turn your back to them and wish them good luck somewhere else with a smile. This is very professional and shows a great care for your community. And some players are even happy with the decission and accept they have no right for an official forum! They will soon accept they are so crappy they have no right for technical support anymore, wow they will be drooling in pleasure!
I guess I just don't see why there needs to be a right to an official forum and also feel that the perceived right to such a forum has been abused to a point where these forums can no longer serve their intended purpose. I intially saw this decision by Mythic as you do, turning their back on the community, but now I'm starting to see how they were just doing what would be best for the community by not bogging it down with a heavily trolled official forum that would be too great for them to successfully moderate. This did not become apparent to me until I tried using the Age of Conan forums. They are the biggest cluster frack of trolls I have ever seen for a major released MMORPG. There are just too many that have taken the right to official forums for granted and ruined them for the people who actually used them for their intended purpose. It's kindof like welfare, although I think official gaming forums had a better original design than the welfare system, but that is a whole other discussion.
I still don't see where either of you get off with saying "well i think they're turning their back" or 'were' turning their back when having NO official forums has been their Policy for as long as Mythic has been around. You don't see DAoC players complaining, they know where to go and they read the Herald which gives you all the up to date information of events, developer polls, and links to news etc for years.
Altair if you dont like it dont' damn play ... nothing you say is going to change their mind ... its already been PROVEN by them in the past they don't need it and they listen to players 10x more than Blizz or SOE ever had and they both have forums filled with Trolls.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Unfortunately if they had official forums they would moderate it lightly because they would not want to ban or suspend paying customers. Therefore the threads and posts get moderated with special care rather than how they should actually be moderated. A fan site has no problems banning idiots from their forums because they do not pay to use the forums. I have seen posts on AoC's official forums that were worthy of banning but did not get one because they are obviously paying customers. At the same time a lot of people are banned from their forums for no reason because of an error on FunComs part. Their official forums have been nothing but a headache to this point.
Not having an official forum is one of the smartest things Mythic have done. Players will spread over various well-moderated fansites where garbage can be sorted out.
And no, you don't need a forum to get support. A simple form will do.
LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!
Well moderated? Laugh! Not only is moderation a misnomer on this topic is also a joke considering every person on the planet will be able to invade the forum and fill it with garbage.
DAoC didn't "prove" you could do it without Forums, they just did it because they said they couldn't afford it which is laughable.
Please, don't suggest that "fan sites" are well moderated, that is the biggest joke.
There are a lot of reasons a official website/forums is a good idea and they've been posted about a lot.
Suggesting AoC forums are useless and believing it based on this one nit posting is just ignorance at it's best. I've already picked up good tips from those forums specific to my class, my machine setup and how I play the game. I got the same information from WoW's forums as well. If you think fishing through those forums is hard try doing it now spread across 10-20 websites of random quality and uptime and not a single one of those require you to be subscribed to the game to post.
Good luck with your "great idea".
http://www.greycouncil.org/
LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!
Well moderated? Laugh! Not only is moderation a misnomer on this topic is also a joke considering every person on the planet will be able to invade the forum and fill it with garbage.
DAoC didn't "prove" you could do it without Forums, they just did it because they said they couldn't afford it which is laughable.
Please, don't suggest that "fan sites" are well moderated, that is the biggest joke.
There are a lot of reasons a official website/forums is a good idea and they've been posted about a lot.
Suggesting AoC forums are useless and believing it based on this one nit posting is just ignorance at it's best. I've already picked up good tips from those forums specific to my class, my machine setup and how I play the game. I got the same information from WoW's forums as well. If you think fishing through those forums is hard try doing it now spread across 10-20 websites of random quality and uptime and not a single one of those require you to be subscribed to the game to post.
Good luck with your "great idea".
I played WoW for three years as an end game raider and pvper and not once, not once, did I ever go to their official forums. I played FFXI for four years and not once ever even searched for an official forum. I played DAoC for 5 years and there was no official forum but I didn't see the need. Vanguard was the first game I went to an official forum and it was a travesty trying to sort through all the garbage. I am having the same problem now with the AoC forums and those of my guild mates that can even get on their forums complain about the same issues. It isn't NEEDED. You could find the same information on the game on a fan site.If people who exploited AoC to level up and make gold and are a known exploiter guild posted HOW to do it on their official forums, they get a small slap on the wrist and rolled back to level one. I can't think of a single WAR forum where if it happened they would not be banned from the forums. Show me something on an official forum from another player that can not be found elsewhere?
LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!LoL!!! LoL!!!
Well moderated? Laugh! Not only is moderation a misnomer on this topic is also a joke considering every person on the planet will be able to invade the forum and fill it with garbage.
DAoC didn't "prove" you could do it without Forums, they just did it because they said they couldn't afford it which is laughable.
Please, don't suggest that "fan sites" are well moderated, that is the biggest joke.
There are a lot of reasons a official website/forums is a good idea and they've been posted about a lot.
Suggesting AoC forums are useless and believing it based on this one nit posting is just ignorance at it's best. I've already picked up good tips from those forums specific to my class, my machine setup and how I play the game. I got the same information from WoW's forums as well. If you think fishing through those forums is hard try doing it now spread across 10-20 websites of random quality and uptime and not a single one of those require you to be subscribed to the game to post.
Good luck with your "great idea".
20? Divide that by 10. That's how many fansites I can find answers at. You want Mythic to waste time and money trying to moderate forums that will be filled with garbage anyways? While fansites do it for free because they're people like you and I, who get sick of the stupidity? AoC forums aren't useless I'm sure but they're close. And fansites provide a simple place for FANS (Fansite, fans, WHAT THE HELL?) to meet.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
20 or 2 doesn't matter they still allow people that don't even play the game to post and if you somehow think that removing that restriction will somehow allow a "fan site" to moderate itself then you're sadly mistaken.
It doesn't cost much at all to run forums and with decent moderation tools (3 day bans, full bans for ACCOUNTS/etc) and limit the access to post to customers with accounts is easy enough. Mythic isn't some mom-and-pop shop anymore. The excuse that it costs to much is just that, a lame excuse these days.
If they can't keep some asshat from posting in their own forums they have other issues that will exist in their game anyway. I dunno about you but a threat to ban my account from the posting and/or the game would keep me and probably anyone from being an asshat. You can't do that on any fan site.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
All you are losing by not having Official Forums is a place to whine, troll, and beg to the company itself.
For those who believe you need forums to address support issues, this is for you.
Open Browser -----> Type in www.google.com -----> Search for "Mythic Support" -----> (amazing)
Result #1 - http://support.darkageofcamelot.com/
The complexities behind this experiment were enough to cause the gnome scientists living below my house to spontaneously combust upon asking them to help me search for a Mythic Support site.
In addition to support sites, many look for places with class/race information and guides.
Open Browser -----> Type in www.google.com -----> Search for "Dark Age of Camelot + Class Information"
Result #1 - http://camelot.allakhazam.com/
Result #2 - http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/about/classes.php
Result #3 - http://camelotvault.ign.com/?dir=classes
Result #4 - http://daoc.catacombs.com/
Open Browser -----> Type in www.google.com -----> Search for "Dark Age of Camelot + Class Guide"
Result #1 - http://camelot.allakhazam.com/Newbie_Guide.html
Result #2 - http://support.darkageofcamelot.com/kb/category.php?id=59
Result #3 - http://www.camelotherald.com/news/index.php
Result #4 - http://www.camelotaddict.com/index-links.html - This lists a ton of DAoC fansites
Sorry if I blew anyones mind with this discovery, but every single fansite includes forums.
STOP WHINING!
The problem in AoC isnt the actual forum, it's the lack of experienced moderators.
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If you dont understand what i write, ask a damn question instead of going into autoflaming-mode.
And dont read in stuff between the lines, i say what i mean.
Waaa, ya win a bucket o pies
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If you dont understand what i write, ask a damn question instead of going into autoflaming-mode.
And dont read in stuff between the lines, i say what i mean.
Many of the posts I've seen in favor of official forums have ironically been prime examples why Mythic shouldn't have official forums.
I can't recall the last time I logged onto a MMORPG's official forum seeking information. I go to fansites when I want useful game info or hints. The only reason to log onto official forums is to experience discussions with the clinically insane and watch people scream at each other. It's entertaining to a point, but has little to do with helping the game or the community.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Wishful thinking. Posting is not a right, it's supposed to be a privelege. You give these people that privilege and they abuse it wholly. Only a fool would continue to fail to learn from the examples that show time and again that this current mmo crowd simply can't handle the responsibility of posting constructively, civilly, or even intelligibly for the most part and will jump at any oppurtunity to soil your game, your company and your playerbase by making a mockery out of the privilege they've been given to post on a board.
You can't return to the days of yesteryear when people actually used an official gaming forum for constructive communication. The modern format for gaming forums are flames, flamebait, trolls, redundant, pointless, ad hominem, speculative arguments and other squabbling not limited to rabid fanboyism, hate mongering, 30 foot long animated gif signatures, drama, photos of cats, chuck norrisims, discussions of the posters ability to speak English and other wastes of words and time.
What is the point in wasting time anymore trying to fight all that garbage to sift through it to maybe find one worthy post every once in awhile. A whole hell of alot of hassle to provide those kinds of environments that will be abused, and for what payoff? So that some guy who feels the right to post isn't offended? By not giving them access to the fuel then they can't try to burn you down, smart move. Take away the playground for the trolls and it's one less hassle you have to worry about and can focus on the game.
Tech support forums should be a must for registered players, and even the wow forums have a great example of helpful posts and active troubleshooting (as opposed to the rest of their boards, it's actually pretty good), but if you're any sort of realist you will see that the future of mmo gaming forums is shot to hell and will probably never recover. The best option is to just withhold that privilege since people have totally foregone composure for the sake of quick lulz. Good on them I say.
They did this with DAoC and it ended up building up amazing communities so I'm all for Mythic not having forums.
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
I felt the exact same way as the OP. Then, browsing the WoW forums, i realized their point of view. I think its great to not have offical forums for 2 reasons:
1. Avoid the Trolls and whiners
2. Gives the community a chance to run its own forums and fansites, keeping the community thriving.
I say kudos to Mythic for their choice.
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Creator, Administrator, and Designer of:
I guess I just don't see why there needs to be a right to an official forum and also feel that the perceived right to such a forum has been abused to a point where these forums can no longer serve their intended purpose. I intially saw this decision by Mythic as you do, turning their back on the community, but now I'm starting to see how they were just doing what would be best for the community by not bogging it down with a heavily trolled official forum that would be too great for them to successfully moderate. This did not become apparent to me until I tried using the Age of Conan forums. They are the biggest cluster frack of trolls I have ever seen for a major released MMORPG. There are just too many that have taken the right to official forums for granted and ruined them for the people who actually used them for their intended purpose. It's kindof like welfare, although I think official gaming forums had a better original design than the welfare system, but that is a whole other discussion.
Well... I don't see the reason to defend the lack of official forums!