Company's written policy says send email request to a particular email address to have personal info. deleted. That address is invalid. Unacceptable. Customer is redirected and sends email request in accordance with company's written policy, and is told essentially, "no, we will not do what our policy says we will do." Also unacceptable. What's the issue? The company's behaviour blatantly contradicts their public policy. Quite simply, SOE's policy and behaviour need to match. Judging from the OP, they do not. It's a problem. SOE has a reputation for telling its customers really anything they want, and then doing something else. This just strikes me as another example. Anytime SOE tells people one thing and then actually does something completely different, a good place to report this behaviour is here: https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01. I just recommend that this link be used when SOE's behaviour clearly contradicts something they have publically stated, that the contradiction can be clearly demonstrated, and that disadvantages to the consumer can be highlighted. My two cents. Other examples of clear contradictions that come to mind are of course SOE saying that squad leaders and rangers would be revamped and have a more important role in the game. They were then deleted. Also, SOE promising new creatures to be tamed in their expansion, then taming creatures was deleted right after the expansion went live. I also seem to remember them promising to restore the force ranking system after it was fixed. It was never restored. Still others have said SOE told them jedi would never be a starting profession, and of course the infamous, the Combat Upgrade is here to stay comment from Smed. The Combat Upgrade was replaced a few months later by the NGE, that also introduced jedi as a starting profession. I might as well add Smed's promise to fast track server mergers, and the dev team's promise to fix collision detection. Both still unfulfilled. The collision detection fix was promised on Nov. 16, 2005, btw. What's disturbing about all of this, is that people probably paid for additional subscription time based on some or all of this misleading information. Very disturbing indeed.
Thank You ArcAngel3 for you precious suggestions.
I visited the FTC site, and i am currently studying the Federal Trade Commission Act (Section 5).
At the first glance, seems there is enough space to start a compliance: im working around it.
Inside FTC website I have also found some links like:
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call.
just for the sake of semantics, the link to the privacy policy is for the SOE privacy policy and not SWG exclusively. Therefore, this could just as easily be a EQ or Planetside vet (for example). So the question becomes, if this were posted in the EQII forum, what would the reaction be since it couldn't be written off as another disgruntled vet?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
Address could be wrong and the letter possible never arrives addressee like the email. Bet guy on phone call says "i am not in charge" for such affairs.
Unlike emails phones/letters costs money , SOE has to list this costs and point them out in the announcement.
Do you think having not working email addresses for customer interactions present this company in a good light ?
This company is a case forConsumer Protection organisations if they don't fix ASAP the email address and don't confirm ASAP the deletion of consumers private data.
For the not deleting private data upon customer request the may commit a crime in addition.
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
Is your time any less valuable to "expend so much of it" on trivializing and badgering people who discuss things like this?
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
Company's written policy says send email request to a particular email address to have personal info. deleted. That address is invalid. Unacceptable. Customer is redirected and sends email request in accordance with company's written policy, and is told essentially, "no, we will not do what our policy says we will do." Also unacceptable. What's the issue? The company's behaviour blatantly contradicts their public policy. Quite simply, SOE's policy and behaviour need to match. Judging from the OP, they do not. It's a problem. SOE has a reputation for telling its customers really anything they want, and then doing something else. This just strikes me as another example. Anytime SOE tells people one thing and then actually does something completely different, a good place to report this behaviour is here: https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01. I just recommend that this link be used when SOE's behaviour clearly contradicts something they have publically stated, that the contradiction can be clearly demonstrated, and that disadvantages to the consumer can be highlighted. My two cents. Other examples of clear contradictions that come to mind are of course SOE saying that squad leaders and rangers would be revamped and have a more important role in the game. They were then deleted. Also, SOE promising new creatures to be tamed in their expansion, then taming creatures was deleted right after the expansion went live. I also seem to remember them promising to restore the force ranking system after it was fixed. It was never restored. Still others have said SOE told them jedi would never be a starting profession, and of course the infamous, the Combat Upgrade is here to stay comment from Smed. The Combat Upgrade was replaced a few months later by the NGE, that also introduced jedi as a starting profession. I might as well add Smed's promise to fast track server mergers, and the dev team's promise to fix collision detection. Both still unfulfilled. The collision detection fix was promised on Nov. 16, 2005, btw. What's disturbing about all of this, is that people probably paid for additional subscription time based on some or all of this misleading information. Very disturbing indeed.
Thank You ArcAngel3 for you precious suggestions.
I visited the FTC site, and i am currently studying the Federal Trade Commission Act (Section 5).
At the first glance, seems there is enough space to start a compliance: im working around it.
Inside FTC website I have also found some links like:
You're quite welcome. In fact any time an MMO company says one thing and clearly does another, to their advantage, and to the customer's disadvantage, and there is evidence to support this observation, I'd recommend the use of that link.
Should the FTC know that some MMO companies think they can tell customers anything they want, take their money and then go and do the opposite, and try to justify this with something as unconscionable as a EULA. Damn right they should.
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
It is an excellent insight into the psyche of an SWG vet, I agree, but for entirely different reasons. Are people really attempting to "get off" on the drama? Perhaps, but how about this for another, more likely rationale: People are beyond the tolerance point with SOE for their blatantly dishonest and disrespectful treatment of consumers. Some customers are attempting to raise awareness of what they view as an ongoing history of consumer rights violations. This is just one more example of a long, sad history of examples where this company thinks they can tell people whatever they want, and do to people whatever they want, and somehow justify that.
Originally posted by SundersGhost Originally posted by ultrasparc Originally posted by SundersGhost Game developer makes a game. It is a class and level based game. The instruction manual explains that in orer to level you can go kill monsters, or go perform various quests for NPC's through out the realm, or go kil other players in pitched combative duels. You rush out and try to kill another player, but due to them being more experiene, better players, and having better gear, they massacre you horribly. Outraged, you stage a protest crying in a lou voice that you tried to kill someone and it did not work, and now you will not accept any form of progression other than an "I win" button. As you have not attempted the other methods provided, and the one method of advancement you DID attempt was a pathetic attempt at bet which you barely even tried at... in the end, all you are doing is crying and demanding an "I win" button. Sorry, that is not the way the game of life works. But if crying loudly makes you happy, enjoy. Be sure to drink plenty tho so your forced tears do not dehydrate you to the point of fatality.
Hi Sunder,
sorry but fyi i am not crying.... I am only sitting of the riverside (do you remember that ancient chinese proverb...), well feed, and with a large water reserve. Fortunately, life is smiling to me... and hope this will continue. Maybe with a little mail from SOE, that could make me more happy than i already am. In the contrary case, i have no worry: its sufficient that atm 103 people in 3 hours read the story, and maybe someone could give me alternative solutions...dunno... /salute ULTRASPARC Has stopped to fight, and is not crying: he is simply sitting on the riverside. You have been given alternate solutions. You refuse to do them. You would rather write long posts asking people to rally behind you and hate on SOE a litte, maybe tell you what a good boy you are and give you a biscuit? I am afraid that if you ment what you said, that you want alternate solutions, you would be a man of your word and accept the ones tht have been given and act upon them. Not to say mine specifically. You defeat your own argument here my friend. I am sure there are enough SOE haters on te forum to make you feel better about yourself though, as that seems your true goal. If you do mean what you say however, well... actions speak louder than words.
If you have not yet picked up on the accented English, Ultra is not in the U.S. It would cost a significant sum of money to send a letter via a traceable method and a phone call would also be an expensive proposition. The email method is by far the most convenient method, especially for non U.S. residents. Ultra has the right to have his personal information removed, but SOE is making it exceedingly difficult for him/her to do so. By their own rules, they have an established email address to handle this. It is broken. SOE's customer support responses simply suck. They should have provided an alternate, electronic method to allow Ultra to have his personal information removed, simple as that. All other methods require real, additional money and effort and this is NOT how you satisfy anyone.
I wonder how quick it would take them if you told them your 11 year old daughter put in the payment through your credit card and was playing this game. Once you inform them that it is a underage person under the age of 13 they have to by law delete all info on that acount. I wonder if they will comply with that one as well!
really appreciate your sharing of my point of wiew.
And wanna thanks all the other posters that have correctly understand the problem: THIS IS NOT A MINOR ISSUE IN SOE BEHAVIOUR, and i think that time let them understand.
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
Is your time any less valuable to "expend so much of it" on trivializing and badgering people who discuss things like this?
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
Is your time any less valuable to "expend so much of it" on trivializing and badgering people who discuss things like this?
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
Is your time any less valuable to "expend so much of it" on trivializing and badgering people who discuss things like this?
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
It's kinda humorous actually.
If you say so..... oh no, 10 more seconds gone! ( ' ;
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
Is your time any less valuable to "expend so much of it" on trivializing and badgering people who discuss things like this?
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
It's kinda humorous actually.
If you say so..... oh no, 10 more seconds gone! ( ' ;
Well at least you got a sense of humor.
I'll bet you lose another minute before you know it ; )
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call. Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
Is your time any less valuable to "expend so much of it" on trivializing and badgering people who discuss things like this?
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
It's kinda humorous actually.
If you say so..... oh no, 10 more seconds gone! ( ' ;
Well at least you got a sense of humor.
I'll bet you lose another minute before you know it ; )
Lol I think rain does have a sense of humour, and I enjoy his/her posts generally. I'll grant that some people feel compelled to stir up drama for the emotions it gives them, sure. I've seen that plenty.
I still think, though, that SOE did plenty to stir up the drama to begin with. I'm going to put this in the context of another service industry to try to clarify my point.
Let's say you purchase a vacation package. Your package, as advertised, includes a round trip ticket to Hawaii, hotel, meals, tours, scuba lessons, rental car--you get the picture .
While the travel company is advertising this, they already decided that you're not going to Hawaii. No, they're sending you to the Antarctic. Your round trip ticket is one way, there isn't a hotel, and you have to catch your own food. It's going to be an Antarctic survival camp. So, they take your money for the Hawaii package, then 2 days later, announce the change in plans.
You protest of course. When you do, you're maligned on the company's website and in travel magazines as being demanding and unreasonable. Others are told that you asked for the Antarctic package on their website. Everyone is told why the Antarctic survival camp is better than the Hawaii package, and pictures of a few (very few) people enjoying ice fishing are featured on the company's site.
Furthermore, when you say your consumer rights were violated, the travel company points to the fine print on one of their brochures. It says that the company reserves the right to enhance the package at their sole discretion. You thought enhance meant, "make better" like maybe some additional shows, but the company thinks enhance means send you ice fishing.
They attempt to protect their reputation by giving you a refund on one part of the package, let's say hotel accomodations, since there is no hotel for the survival camp. They decide, however, to keep the fees you paid for tours (you'll still get a tour) and your airfare (you'll still be flown).
You point out that this is unacceptable, and find yourself barraged with accusations that you're a deranged stalker, and that you're addicted to Hawaii. You insist that the company should make restitution, and you're told you have no life because you refuse to move on.
Drama? Oh yes absolutely. Drama manufactured by the burned customer? I think not.
I have double checked to make sure accounts@soe.sony.com is a valid email contact. The email is a valid email account. As stated previously we are unable to assist you with your request through the Technical and billing support department. I understand some options are not valid for you as they will cost money. If you would like this issue resolved without having to contact us via a pay service then please email accounts@soe.sony.com as they will be the only ones to assist you with your request. Please note that any further contacts regarding this issue will be ignored and set to solved as we are unable to assist you with this issue and we have given you numerous contacts to resolve this issue. Please contact one of the contacts we have given to resolve your issue.
Regards,
(name edited)
Technical Support Representative
Sony Online Entertainment
Seems that (miracolously !!) the broken e-mail now is working properly, they say.
I am sending my original request to this email,. I underline that my first request was sent to THIS e-mail, and THEY forced me to talk to this improductive Technical Support.
And i note that now THEY are saying that "i can contact ONE of these contacts" , e-mail included IMO.
The story is spreading from the beginning..... but, as i said, i have allooottt of time and patience to invest to try to solve it.
I have double checked to make sure accounts@soe.sony.com is a valid email contact. The email is a valid email account. As stated previously we are unable to assist you with your request through the Technical and billing support department. I understand some options are not valid for you as they will cost money. If you would like this issue resolved without having to contact us via a pay service then please email accounts@soe.sony.com as they will be the only ones to assist you with your request. Please note that any further contacts regarding this issue will be ignored and set to solved as we are unable to assist you with this issue and we have given you numerous contacts to resolve this issue. Please contact one of the contacts we have given to resolve your issue.
Regards,
(name edited) Technical Support Representative
Sony Online Entertainment
Seems that (miracolously !!) the broken e-mail now is working properly, they say. I am sending my original request to this email,. I underline that my first request was sent to THIS e-mail, and THEY forced me to talk to this improductive Technical Support. And i note that now THEY are saying that "i can contact ONE of these contacts" , e-mail included IMO. The story is spreading from the beginning..... but, as i said, i have allooottt of time and patience to invest to try to solve it. Bye all. ULTRASPARC will keep you informed.
Hey if you got them to fix their email so that their stated procedures match the actual procedures, that's a good thing. Nice going. Now if only they'd fix misfiring specials and collision detection like they said they would on Nov. 16, 2005. Still waiting on those lol. Nice work ultra.
I have double checked to make sure accounts@soe.sony.com is a valid email contact. The email is a valid email account. As stated previously we are unable to assist you with your request through the Technical and billing support department. I understand some options are not valid for you as they will cost money. If you would like this issue resolved without having to contact us via a pay service then please email accounts@soe.sony.com as they will be the only ones to assist you with your request. Please note that any further contacts regarding this issue will be ignored and set to solved as we are unable to assist you with this issue and we have given you numerous contacts to resolve this issue. Please contact one of the contacts we have given to resolve your issue.
Regards,
(name edited) Technical Support Representative
Sony Online Entertainment
Seems that (miracolously !!) the broken e-mail now is working properly, they say. I am sending my original request to this email,. I underline that my first request was sent to THIS e-mail, and THEY forced me to talk to this improductive Technical Support. And i note that now THEY are saying that "i can contact ONE of these contacts" , e-mail included IMO. The story is spreading from the beginning..... but, as i said, i have allooottt of time and patience to invest to try to solve it. Bye all. ULTRASPARC will keep you informed.
Hey if you got them to fix their email so that their stated procedures match the actual procedures, that's a good thing. Nice going. Now if only they'd fix misfiring specials and collision detection like they said they would on Nov. 16, 2005. Still waiting on those lol. Nice work ultra.
TYVM ArcAngel3, you welcome!
Clear sign that somebody's knees at SOE have trembled....., and THEY are following my suggestions.
As promised, i go ahead (new mail at the the "original address" just sent), waiting on the riverside.
I have double checked to make sure accounts@soe.sony.com is a valid email contact. The email is a valid email account. As stated previously we are unable to assist you with your request through the Technical and billing support department. I understand some options are not valid for you as they will cost money. If you would like this issue resolved without having to contact us via a pay service then please email accounts@soe.sony.com as they will be the only ones to assist you with your request. Please note that any further contacts regarding this issue will be ignored and set to solved as we are unable to assist you with this issue and we have given you numerous contacts to resolve this issue. Please contact one of the contacts we have given to resolve your issue.
Regards,
(name edited) Technical Support Representative
Sony Online Entertainment
Seems that (miracolously !!) the broken e-mail now is working properly, they say. I am sending my original request to this email,. I underline that my first request was sent to THIS e-mail, and THEY forced me to talk to this improductive Technical Support. And i note that now THEY are saying that "i can contact ONE of these contacts" , e-mail included IMO. The story is spreading from the beginning..... but, as i said, i have allooottt of time and patience to invest to try to solve it. Bye all. ULTRASPARC will keep you informed.
Hey if you got them to fix their email so that their stated procedures match the actual procedures, that's a good thing. Nice going. Now if only they'd fix misfiring specials and collision detection like they said they would on Nov. 16, 2005. Still waiting on those lol. Nice work ultra.
TYVM ArcAngel3, you welcome!
Clear sign that somebody's knees at SOE have trembled....., and THEY are following my suggestions.
As promised, i go ahead (new mail at the the "original address" just sent), waiting on the riverside.
Bye bye
ULTRASPARC
Congratulation on the progress made and yes lets call it like it is: congratulation on your first victory
this the reply i just got from SOE, after their confirmation that they have DOUBLE CHECKED that the address accounts@soe.sony.com is working.
Response
This is an automatic generated response, to the email you sent.
Thank you for contacting Sony Online Entertainment LLC. We apologize but the email address that you are trying to reach is no longer valid. If you would like to reach our support, please visit http://support.station.sony.com for instructions on how to contact us by email, phone, live chat, or in-game. You can also find there is an extensive knowledge base for all SOE games that may assist you. If you have already have an existing incident regarding this issue, please reply back to your response e-mail in the designated response area. To review all submitted incidents, click on the "Service History" tab, then click on "Questions" at www.station.sony.com/kb. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Unfortunately, seems not true.
In other words, is another clear evidence that they are misleading customers, and maintaining false informations on a public Privacy Policy (just checked that ATM the Privacy policy is unchanged as per Revision 19/04/2007).
In addition, when i tried to log on the temporary account they provided me, it says:
The username and password you provided could not be authenticated.
So, as next move, i am starting the operation:
"INFORM TOP-LEVEL's MOTHER COMPANIES"
to let them understand, and evaluate, SOE's behaviour.
I am preparing a very long letter (phisycal letter, spreaded in different countries, that means future reimbursement requests), to inform the following about the incident:
Mr. Kazuo Hirai, President and Group CEO, SCEI - Sony Computer Entertaiment Inc of America, that recently take over SOE operations,
I hope this informations spreaded at very high-level mother companies top executives could help them to correct an evident distortion in a parent company Privacy Policy and restore a fair behaviour with customers.
I will also remember them the Jeff Bezos's Law... i were a Sony Electronics products customer... but ATM i can not continue to believe in this name...
If this will be not sufficient, no problem: believe me, I have ALOT of ideas how to further support my request....
And, luckily, i have also a VERY IN-DEPHT knowledge in large Corporations facts.
Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
will keep you informed and suggest to SOE:
"Deal with reality, or reality will deal with you"
Hi all, this the reply i just got from SOE, after their confirmation that they have DOUBLE CHECKED that the address accounts@soe.sony.com is working.
Response
This is an automatic generated response, to the email you sent.
Thank you for contacting Sony Online Entertainment LLC. We apologize but the email address that you are trying to reach is no longer valid. If you would like to reach our support, please visit http://support.station.sony.com for instructions on how to contact us by email, phone, live chat, or in-game. You can also find there is an extensive knowledge base for all SOE games that may assist you. If you have already have an existing incident regarding this issue, please reply back to your response e-mail in the designated response area. To review all submitted incidents, click on the "Service History" tab, then click on "Questions" at www.station.sony.com/kb. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Unfortunately, seems not true. In other words, is another clear evidence that they are misleading customers, and maintaining false informations on a public Privacy Policy (just checked that ATM the Privacy policy is unchanged as per Revision 19/04/2007). In addition, when i tried to log on the temporary account they provided me, it says: The username and password you provided could not be authenticated. So, as next move, i am starting the operation: "INFORM TOP-LEVEL's MOTHER COMPANIES" to let them understand, and evaluate, SOE's behaviour. I am preparing a very long letter (phisycal letter, spreaded in different countries, that means future reimbursement requests), to inform the following about the incident: Sir Howard Stringer, President and CEO of Sony Corporation (Tokio, Japan (http://www.sony.com/SCA/bios/stringer.shtml), Mr. Ryoji Chubachi, President and Electronics CEO, Sony Corp.( http://www.sony.com/SCA/bios/chubachi.shtml)Sony Ms.Nicole Seligman, Executive Vice President, General Counsel, Sony Corporation of America http://www.sony.com/SCA/bios/seligman.shtml Mr. Kazuo Hirai, President and Group CEO, SCEI - Sony Computer Entertaiment Inc of America, that recently take over SOE operations, I hope this informations spreaded at very high-level mother companies top executives could help them to correct an evident distortion in a parent company Privacy Policy and restore a fair behaviour with customers. I will also remember them the Jeff Bezos's Law... i were a Sony Electronics products customer... but ATM i can not continue to believe in this name... If this will be not sufficient, no problem: believe me, I have ALOT of ideas how to further support my request.... And, luckily, i have also a VERY IN-DEPHT knowledge in large Corporations facts. Bye Bye ULTRASPARC will keep you informed and suggest to SOE: "Deal with reality, or reality will deal with you"
I guess that's like when they post in their patch notes that they fixed something, and in reality it's still broken...
I'm disappointed, but not surprised.
Oh hey Ultra, if you want to let upper level Sony execs know about this example as just one in a history of saying one thing and doing another, feel free to include this stuff in your letters also: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/181864
If they're looking for reasons that SWG lost the hundreds of thousands of customers it once had, this might give them a clue.
be sure i'll include that and the entire story of SWG failure, including the bad press i read in Washington Post, NY Times, Wired and other.
As many knows, inside large corporations is usual that exeutives and minor companies CEO's bring to the attention of top levels only good stuffs, carefully avoiding any report that can damage themselves.
I dont know if this is the case: for sure Sir H.Stringer reached Sony to begin an internal, industrial, financial and commercial restructuration, needed because of the poor global performance of the group and of the stock in the markets.
It's obvious that for him this could be a very minor issue but, putting myself into his trousers, i surely start an internal investigation, because Customer's satisfaction must be at the top of the pyramid of any company.
And it's clear that SOE contribution was and still remain in the right opposite direction. Not only in my opinion...it seems.
wow...I have to echo the sentiment of disappointed but not surprised. While a big part of me wants to see your issue resolved and hold on to some hope that there is a will to 'do the right thing' at that company (eternal optimist i suppose?), another part of me wants to see the issue go unresolved just to see what you have planned next
in the end, good luck making your point and it is refreshing to see someone who understands that it is not the destination, but the journey that matters.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Hey ArcAngel3, be sure i'll include that and the entire story of SWG failure, including the bad press i read in Washington Post, NY Times, Wired and other. As many knows, inside large corporations is usual that exeutives and minor companies CEO's bring to the attention of top levels only good stuffs, carefully avoiding any report that can damage themselves. I dont know if this is the case: for sure Sir H.Stringer reached Sony to begin an internal, industrial, financial and commercial restructuration, needed because of the poor global performance of the group and of the stock in the markets. It's obvious that for him this could be a very minor issue but, putting myself into his trousers, i surely start an internal investigation, because Customer's satisfaction must be at the top of the pyramid of any company. And it's clear that SOE contribution was and still remain in the right opposite direction. Not only in my opinion...it seems. Bye Bye ULTRASPARC closed 4 days for holidays (abroad) returning 1/6/2008
Hey there Ultra, enjoy your holidays. You may be interested to know that the Federal Trade Commission has begun tracking complaints about SOE re. SWG. I received an email from them communicating this.
They say that if they receive a number of complaints that appear to indicate a pattern of consumer rights violations, they could begin an investigation.
Complaints about SOE misleading people (saying one thing, but doing another, especially if intentional deception was involved) in the Galaxies game will be collected in their database. Your experience seems to fit that pattern. I posted the link earlier in the thread, but here it is again so you don't have to go searching: https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01. Any complaint needs to be less than 2000 characters, so you'd have to summarize.
Now that someone is officially keeping on eye on them, I wonder if we'll see a change in the way SOE treats consumers. That would be a welcome change. On the other hand if they continue to say anything they please, take subscription money, and then not follow through or do the opposite, maybe we'll see them held accountable.
P.S. I like your approach of sharing information with parent company executives to promote greater accountability and better customer service also. That is, after all, what this seems to be about: people being communicated with honestly, treated respectfully, and provided with a good experience, not dishonesty and mistreatment.
Comments
Thank You ArcAngel3 for you precious suggestions.
I visited the FTC site, and i am currently studying the Federal Trade Commission Act (Section 5).
At the first glance, seems there is enough space to start a compliance: im working around it.
Inside FTC website I have also found some links like:
http://www.icpen.org/ and
http://www.econsumer.gov/
both under investigation by myself.
TY again and bye
ULTRASPARC
will keep you informed
Excellent insight into the psyche of a swg vet. You clearly enjoy the drama, get off on it as well as telling people about it, prolonging your grieving process. Furthmore, you must value your time, something most of us consider to be quite valueable, so minimally as to expend so much of it on this rather than simply write the physical letter or make the call.
Best of luck and kindest regards in all cases.
just for the sake of semantics, the link to the privacy policy is for the SOE privacy policy and not SWG exclusively. Therefore, this could just as easily be a EQ or Planetside vet (for example). So the question becomes, if this were posted in the EQII forum, what would the reaction be since it couldn't be written off as another disgruntled vet?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Address could be wrong and the letter possible never arrives addressee like the email. Bet guy on phone call says "i am not in charge" for such affairs.
Unlike emails phones/letters costs money , SOE has to list this costs and point them out in the announcement.
Do you think having not working email addresses for customer interactions present this company in a good light ?
This company is a case for Consumer Protection organisations if they don't fix ASAP the email address and don't confirm ASAP the deletion of consumers private data.
For the not deleting private data upon customer request the may commit a crime in addition.
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
Thank You ArcAngel3 for you precious suggestions.
I visited the FTC site, and i am currently studying the Federal Trade Commission Act (Section 5).
At the first glance, seems there is enough space to start a compliance: im working around it.
Inside FTC website I have also found some links like:
http://www.icpen.org/ and
http://www.econsumer.gov/
both under investigation by myself.
TY again and bye
ULTRASPARC
will keep you informed
You're quite welcome. In fact any time an MMO company says one thing and clearly does another, to their advantage, and to the customer's disadvantage, and there is evidence to support this observation, I'd recommend the use of that link.Should the FTC know that some MMO companies think they can tell customers anything they want, take their money and then go and do the opposite, and try to justify this with something as unconscionable as a EULA. Damn right they should.
It is an excellent insight into the psyche of an SWG vet, I agree, but for entirely different reasons. Are people really attempting to "get off" on the drama? Perhaps, but how about this for another, more likely rationale: People are beyond the tolerance point with SOE for their blatantly dishonest and disrespectful treatment of consumers. Some customers are attempting to raise awareness of what they view as an ongoing history of consumer rights violations. This is just one more example of a long, sad history of examples where this company thinks they can tell people whatever they want, and do to people whatever they want, and somehow justify that.
sorry but fyi i am not crying....
I am only sitting of the riverside (do you remember that ancient chinese proverb...), well feed, and with a large water reserve.
Fortunately, life is smiling to me... and hope this will continue. Maybe with a little mail from SOE, that could make me more happy than i already am.
In the contrary case, i have no worry: its sufficient that atm 103 people in 3 hours read the story, and maybe someone could give me alternative solutions...dunno...
/salute
ULTRASPARC
Has stopped to fight, and is not crying: he is simply sitting on the riverside.
You have been given alternate solutions. You refuse to do them. You would rather write long posts asking people to rally behind you and hate on SOE a litte, maybe tell you what a good boy you are and give you a biscuit? I am afraid that if you ment what you said, that you want alternate solutions, you would be a man of your word and accept the ones tht have been given and act upon them. Not to say mine specifically. You defeat your own argument here my friend. I am sure there are enough SOE haters on te forum to make you feel better about yourself though, as that seems your true goal. If you do mean what you say however, well... actions speak louder than words.
If you have not yet picked up on the accented English, Ultra is not in the U.S. It would cost a significant sum of money to send a letter via a traceable method and a phone call would also be an expensive proposition. The email method is by far the most convenient method, especially for non U.S. residents. Ultra has the right to have his personal information removed, but SOE is making it exceedingly difficult for him/her to do so. By their own rules, they have an established email address to handle this. It is broken. SOE's customer support responses simply suck. They should have provided an alternate, electronic method to allow Ultra to have his personal information removed, simple as that. All other methods require real, additional money and effort and this is NOT how you satisfy anyone.
Akevv Ostone
No Longer SWG Free
I wonder how quick it would take them if you told them your 11 year old daughter put in the payment through your credit card and was playing this game. Once you inform them that it is a underage person under the age of 13 they have to by law delete all info on that acount. I wonder if they will comply with that one as well!
TYVM Sunder,
really appreciate your sharing of my point of wiew.
And wanna thanks all the other posters that have correctly understand the problem: THIS IS NOT A MINOR ISSUE IN SOE BEHAVIOUR, and i think that time let them understand.
/salute all
ULTRASPARC
still sitting on the riverside....
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
It's kinda humorous actually.
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
It's kinda humorous actually.
If you say so..... oh no, 10 more seconds gone! ( ' ;
I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
It's kinda humorous actually.
If you say so..... oh no, 10 more seconds gone! ( ' ;
Well at least you got a sense of humor.
I'll bet you lose another minute before you know it ; )
Is your time any less valuable to "expend so much of it" on trivializing and badgering people who discuss things like this?I thought the OP had some interesting facts to bring to a discussion forum where people share their bad experiences with SoE/SWG.
Is the "drama" you try to create any different then anyone else's percieved drama? Because it appears to me that you are no different then what you think so negatively of.
My post took 1 whole minute (and it shows from the typos)... I thought it started out well, but really, it seems like the process is far more protracted than it should be. And I'd disagree about creating drama, especially when it comes to the swg vet camp.
Your "time" extends wll beyond this single post. You're doing exactly what you're critising others for.
It's kinda humorous actually.
If you say so..... oh no, 10 more seconds gone! ( ' ;
Well at least you got a sense of humor.
I'll bet you lose another minute before you know it ; )
Lol I think rain does have a sense of humour, and I enjoy his/her posts generally. I'll grant that some people feel compelled to stir up drama for the emotions it gives them, sure. I've seen that plenty.
I still think, though, that SOE did plenty to stir up the drama to begin with. I'm going to put this in the context of another service industry to try to clarify my point.
Let's say you purchase a vacation package. Your package, as advertised, includes a round trip ticket to Hawaii, hotel, meals, tours, scuba lessons, rental car--you get the picture
.
While the travel company is advertising this, they already decided that you're not going to Hawaii. No, they're sending you to the Antarctic. Your round trip ticket is one way, there isn't a hotel, and you have to catch your own food. It's going to be an Antarctic survival camp. So, they take your money for the Hawaii package, then 2 days later, announce the change in plans.
You protest of course. When you do, you're maligned on the company's website and in travel magazines as being demanding and unreasonable. Others are told that you asked for the Antarctic package on their website. Everyone is told why the Antarctic survival camp is better than the Hawaii package, and pictures of a few (very few) people enjoying ice fishing are featured on the company's site.
Furthermore, when you say your consumer rights were violated, the travel company points to the fine print on one of their brochures. It says that the company reserves the right to enhance the package at their sole discretion. You thought enhance meant, "make better" like maybe some additional shows, but the company thinks enhance means send you ice fishing.
They attempt to protect their reputation by giving you a refund on one part of the package, let's say hotel accomodations, since there is no hotel for the survival camp. They decide, however, to keep the fees you paid for tours (you'll still get a tour) and your airfare (you'll still be flown).
You point out that this is unacceptable, and find yourself barraged with accusations that you're a deranged stalker, and that you're addicted to Hawaii. You insist that the company should make restitution, and you're told you have no life because you refuse to move on.
Drama? Oh yes absolutely. Drama manufactured by the burned customer? I think not.
Hi all,
here is the SOE's answer:
Hello,
I have double checked to make sure accounts@soe.sony.com is a valid email contact. The email is a valid email account. As stated previously we are unable to assist you with your request through the Technical and billing support department. I understand some options are not valid for you as they will cost money. If you would like this issue resolved without having to contact us via a pay service then please email accounts@soe.sony.com as they will be the only ones to assist you with your request. Please note that any further contacts regarding this issue will be ignored and set to solved as we are unable to assist you with this issue and we have given you numerous contacts to resolve this issue. Please contact one of the contacts we have given to resolve your issue.
Regards,
(name edited)
Technical Support Representative
Sony Online Entertainment
Seems that (miracolously !!) the broken e-mail now is working properly, they say.
I am sending my original request to this email,. I underline that my first request was sent to THIS e-mail, and THEY forced me to talk to this improductive Technical Support.
And i note that now THEY are saying that "i can contact ONE of these contacts" , e-mail included IMO.
The story is spreading from the beginning..... but, as i said, i have allooottt of time and patience to invest to try to solve it.
Bye all.
ULTRASPARC
will keep you informed.
TYVM ArcAngel3, you welcome!
Clear sign that somebody's knees at SOE have trembled....., and THEY are following my suggestions.
As promised, i go ahead (new mail at the the "original address" just sent), waiting on the riverside.
Bye bye
ULTRASPARC
TYVM ArcAngel3, you welcome!
Clear sign that somebody's knees at SOE have trembled....., and THEY are following my suggestions.
As promised, i go ahead (new mail at the the "original address" just sent), waiting on the riverside.
Bye bye
ULTRASPARC
Congratulation on the progress made and yes lets call it like it is: congratulation on your first victory
My best wishes for the next ones
Hi all,
this the reply i just got from SOE, after their confirmation that they have DOUBLE CHECKED that the address accounts@soe.sony.com is working.
Thank you for contacting Sony Online Entertainment LLC. We apologize but the email address that you are trying to reach is no longer valid. If you would like to reach our support, please visit http://support.station.sony.com for instructions on how to contact us by email, phone, live chat, or in-game. You can also find there is an extensive knowledge base for all SOE games that may assist you. If you have already have an existing incident regarding this issue, please reply back to your response e-mail in the designated response area. To review all submitted incidents, click on the "Service History" tab, then click on "Questions" at www.station.sony.com/kb. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Unfortunately, seems not true.
In other words, is another clear evidence that they are misleading customers, and maintaining false informations on a public Privacy Policy (just checked that ATM the Privacy policy is unchanged as per Revision 19/04/2007).
In addition, when i tried to log on the temporary account they provided me, it says:
The username and password you provided could not be authenticated.
So, as next move, i am starting the operation:
"INFORM TOP-LEVEL's MOTHER COMPANIES"
to let them understand, and evaluate, SOE's behaviour.
I am preparing a very long letter (phisycal letter, spreaded in different countries, that means future reimbursement requests), to inform the following about the incident:
Sir Howard Stringer, President and CEO of Sony Corporation (Tokio, Japan (http://www.sony.com/SCA/bios/stringer.shtml),
Mr. Ryoji Chubachi, President and Electronics CEO, Sony Corp.( http://www.sony.com/SCA/bios/chubachi.shtml)Sony
Ms.Nicole Seligman, Executive Vice President, General Counsel, Sony Corporation of America http://www.sony.com/SCA/bios/seligman.shtml
Mr. Kazuo Hirai, President and Group CEO, SCEI - Sony Computer Entertaiment Inc of America, that recently take over SOE operations,
I hope this informations spreaded at very high-level mother companies top executives could help them to correct an evident distortion in a parent company Privacy Policy and restore a fair behaviour with customers.
I will also remember them the Jeff Bezos's Law... i were a Sony Electronics products customer... but ATM i can not continue to believe in this name...
If this will be not sufficient, no problem: believe me, I have ALOT of ideas how to further support my request....
And, luckily, i have also a VERY IN-DEPHT knowledge in large Corporations facts.
Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
will keep you informed and suggest to SOE:
"Deal with reality, or reality will deal with you"
I guess that's like when they post in their patch notes that they fixed something, and in reality it's still broken...
I'm disappointed, but not surprised.
Oh hey Ultra, if you want to let upper level Sony execs know about this example as just one in a history of saying one thing and doing another, feel free to include this stuff in your letters also: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/181864
If they're looking for reasons that SWG lost the hundreds of thousands of customers it once had, this might give them a clue.
Hey ArcAngel3,
be sure i'll include that and the entire story of SWG failure, including the bad press i read in Washington Post, NY Times, Wired and other.
As many knows, inside large corporations is usual that exeutives and minor companies CEO's bring to the attention of top levels only good stuffs, carefully avoiding any report that can damage themselves.
I dont know if this is the case: for sure Sir H.Stringer reached Sony to begin an internal, industrial, financial and commercial restructuration, needed because of the poor global performance of the group and of the stock in the markets.
It's obvious that for him this could be a very minor issue but, putting myself into his trousers, i surely start an internal investigation, because Customer's satisfaction must be at the top of the pyramid of any company.
And it's clear that SOE contribution was and still remain in the right opposite direction. Not only in my opinion...it seems.
Bye Bye
ULTRASPARC
closed 4 days for holidays (abroad)
returning 1/6/2008
wow...I have to echo the sentiment of disappointed but not surprised. While a big part of me wants to see your issue resolved and hold on to some hope that there is a will to 'do the right thing' at that company (eternal optimist i suppose?), another part of me wants to see the issue go unresolved just to see what you have planned next
in the end, good luck making your point and it is refreshing to see someone who understands that it is not the destination, but the journey that matters.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Hey there Ultra, enjoy your holidays. You may be interested to know that the Federal Trade Commission has begun tracking complaints about SOE re. SWG. I received an email from them communicating this.
They say that if they receive a number of complaints that appear to indicate a pattern of consumer rights violations, they could begin an investigation.
Complaints about SOE misleading people (saying one thing, but doing another, especially if intentional deception was involved) in the Galaxies game will be collected in their database. Your experience seems to fit that pattern. I posted the link earlier in the thread, but here it is again so you don't have to go searching: https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01. Any complaint needs to be less than 2000 characters, so you'd have to summarize.
Now that someone is officially keeping on eye on them, I wonder if we'll see a change in the way SOE treats consumers. That would be a welcome change. On the other hand if they continue to say anything they please, take subscription money, and then not follow through or do the opposite, maybe we'll see them held accountable.
P.S. I like your approach of sharing information with parent company executives to promote greater accountability and better customer service also. That is, after all, what this seems to be about: people being communicated with honestly, treated respectfully, and provided with a good experience, not dishonesty and mistreatment.