a boring technical question

taa2609 · August 2004

ive had a look around and cant find an answer. so, im looking to get a broadband internet set-up and was wondering what speed i should be getting. i thought 256k would be enough but the providor suggests 750k for online gaming. an extra £7-8 per month seems too much for me as i will only be a part time gamer, during GMT late evenings and weekends.

i suppose the games desired would be helpful but i would like to put my fingers in several 'free trial' pies for the first couple of months. ww2 online and asherons call 1 (played fine through a telephone line!! 4 years ago) or 2. i wont be gunning for any of the latest games because my laptop probably wont allow it.

also, some broadband providors give a download limit per month. what should be my minimum for this? maximum of 30 hours surfing/gaming per month.

tommy.

Farseen · August 2004

As for games, I suggest you try out Anarchy Online. The graphics aren't new age, and they certainly dont need that high of a machine to be run on. The gameplay is actually really fun, and the customization is one of the highest i've ever seen. Other games like Everquest and Dark Ages of Camelot are fun as well. They don't have the new age graphics either, but they are decent. The only problem i found with Everquest, was that the lag was harsh.

Now for internet choices, i highly suggest getting unlimited access per month. The whole 30 hours/month thing is really killer. You never know when you'll have free time, or if you need those extra 3 hours for whatever. Now judging by your use of the pound as your currency (i think), i don't really know what kind of internet service providers they have in England (if thats where your from ). Although, i suggest getting DSL. I'm not that good with ISP's, but i have DSL, and my pings are great! Well good luck!

-Farseen-
______________________________
Tested: Knight Online, Wish Beta, Ryzom Beta, Planeshift Alpha

Played: UO, EQ, AO, SWG, FFXI, Shadowbane, EVE, Horizons, AC2, DAoC, L][

Current Testing/Playing: CoH, RYL, Everquest 2 (soon)

TaskyZZ · August 2004

He isn't saying they limit him to 30 hours per month. He is asking how much data would he download per month if he used the Net for 30 hours per month. I guess there are providers that limit your useage per amount you pay. Like 1GB per month, or 2.5 GB per month (or whatever their offer is, I have no idea).

But it is very difficult to answer that question. It really depends on what you do. Do you downlaod files (videos, game trailers, etc.)? Downloading just one MMORPG could take as much as 1 GB of bandwidth.

I would say try to get unlimited if you are going to get addicted to an MMORPG. Nothing worse than running out of bandwidth with a week left in the month when that urge (addiction) strikes.

As for how much bandwiodth do you need to play an online game. I would say 250K is more than enough for one person to play ANY MMORPG game. If you play nonmassive games, then you could need more, if you are hosting a game or something like that. But just as a player, then again, 250K should be enough for any game. If you have 2 or 3 PCs in your house that might all play at the same time, then you may need more than 250K.

Oakstead · August 2004

My house has a home network on a 250kb broadband connection. We have no problems when two computers are each playing different graphics intensive on-line games at the same time.

JohnnyFive · August 2004

If you have broadband, you can most likely play any MOG (new or old) on the market just fine.

I have a 250k connection, and I can myself and two others playing FPS games online all at the same time without lag. And on average, FPS' use more bandwidth than MOG's (well, except in high traffic zones, but even then they are comparable).

These newer games, although the companies realize that more and more people are buying/using broadband, also they would cut off a whole market if they didn't make it 'playable' on a 56k connection. Not to mention that newer & better net code is coming out all the time, so you need't worry about what kind of connection you have to play these games. 250k should be just fine.

As for bandwidth limits, 5gb's or over should also be ok.

I have a website that has a 10gb xfer limit a month. With over 2,000 hits monthly, I don't even use 2% of that limit.

As for the games, although they are a constant flow of data, if you are only playing 30 hours a month, shouldn't come close to any realistic limits placed on a broadband connection.

Of course, if you've got anything under 5gb/month, you might have to watch what you download

Slanger · August 2004

Originally posted by JohnnyFive

If you have broadband, you can most likely play any MOG (new or old) on the market just fine.

I have a 250k connection, and I can myself and two others playing FPS games online all at the same time without lag. And on average, FPS' use more bandwidth than MOG's (well, except in high traffic zones, but even then they are comparable).
These newer games, although the companies realize that more and more people are buying/using broadband, also they would cut off a whole market if they didn't make it 'playable' on a 56k connection. Not to mention that newer & better net code is coming out all the time, so you need't worry about what kind of connection you have to play these games. 250k should be just fine.
As for bandwidth limits, 5gb's or over should also be ok.
I have a website that has a 10gb xfer limit a month. With over 2,000 hits monthly, I don't even use 2% of that limit.
As for the games, although they are a constant flow of data, if you are only playing 30 hours a month, shouldn't come close to any realistic limits placed on a broadband connection.
Of course, if you've got anything under 5gb/month, you might have to watch what you download

As stated above for gaming 256k is more than enough. When I first moved to my new house I had to use 56k for the first few weeks playing SWG. I had no problem at all except for when I was involved in big PVP battles. Even in big PVP battles bandwidth only goes upto about 15kbs which would be about 120k. So theoretically you could have two people playing an MMORPG engaged in a big PVP battle with 256k and your connection would not be the problem it would be your computer. Odds are the company is just trying to get those extra $10 out of you, because for most MMORPG's even 56k is enough. And besides if they are going to limit how much you can download per month, better stick to the lower 256k so you have less of a chance of reaching that limit.

Currently Playing: AC2, WW2Online
Retired: Everquest, DAoC
Quit: SWG

Naithin · August 2004

Alrighty, first, want to clear up some misconceptions here.

Higher transfer rate does not at all translate into a better ping. Latency (ping) is determined entirely on the quality of the connection from point A to point B, with DSL, to the end user, the main concern for them is distance to their local exchange and quality of the phone lines between them and the exchange.

Why then does DSL get such a better ping over dialup since they both use the same cables? Cos it's a different, and better protocol (for DSL) and since it's split off from the frequencies of voice, isn't getting quite so garbled. It is NOT simply the fact that you have more bandwidth that is increasing the speed.

Consider the internet connection as a highway. Getting broadband, or upgrading you broadband, is like adding more lanes to your highway, not upping the speed limit (for latency/ping considerations).

For /most/ games, you will notice no difference between 256kbit or 750kbit dsl for ping. The exceptions will be for games like Joint Operations or Battlefield: Veitnam, where there is a lot of data to transfer at one time. If you can't handle accepting that amount at one go (not enough lanes on your highway) you will get packet loss and percieved lag.

But even those games, if played on one PC, would have no trouble with 256kbit DSL. If you could potentially be playing on multiple PC's at the same time off this one connection, then you are definitely going to want a higher capacity connection, like the 750kbit.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Naithin · August 2004

Oh, few bits forgot to address. For MMOG play as opposed to larger scale FPS', 256k would be just fine for up to 2 or 3 people simultaneously, but I'd only comfortably put 2 onto that.

Also, for download limit, unlimited would be best, but if that's not an option, 10 gig should see you right for a month. It gives the leeway to do the odd big download, get movies, music etc, all without too much problem. If you don't do any of those things at all, consider whether you don't do it only cos it takes too long on dialup, or whether you're truly not interested. I found myself getting a lot more trailers and the like when it only took a minute or two as opposed to hours. But if you truly are not interested in this, and wont be making any big downloads - MMOG trial client d/l's are big, heh - then 5gb should see you ok for just browsing and playing.

Also, look closely into whether it is truly DSL or if it is *A*DSL, ADSL is Asynchronus (sp) Digital Subscriber Line, basically what the A part of it means, is that you get different transfer rates for upstream and downstream. If it is ADSL, the number they give you will be downstream only. ie; you will download a 256kbit (32KB/s) but probably only upload at 128kbit (16KB/s). This could be a problem, because if you start sharing that upstream rate over more than 2 PCs, or even just 2 in the case of JO or BF:V, you're going to get lost sent packets, or at least have them stacking, causing some really really funky lag effects.

So just watch that one.

Slanger · August 2004

Originally posted by Naithin

Oh, few bits forgot to address. For MMOG play as opposed to larger scale FPS', 256k would be just fine for up to 2 or 3 people simultaneously, but I'd only comfortably put 2 onto that.
Also, for download limit, unlimited would be best, but if that's not an option, 10 gig should see you right for a month. It gives the leeway to do the odd big download, get movies, music etc, all without too much problem. If you don't do any of those things at all, consider whether you don't do it only cos it takes too long on dialup, or whether you're truly not interested. I found myself getting a lot more trailers and the like when it only took a minute or two as opposed to hours. But if you truly are not interested in this, and wont be making any big downloads - MMOG trial client d/l's are big, heh - then 5gb should see you ok for just browsing and playing.
Also, look closely into whether it is truly DSL or if it is *A*DSL, ADSL is Asynchronus (sp) Digital Subscriber Line, basically what the A part of it means, is that you get different transfer rates for upstream and downstream. If it is ADSL, the number they give you will be downstream only. ie; you will download a 256kbit (32KB/s) but probably only upload at 128kbit (16KB/s). This could be a problem, because if you start sharing that upstream rate over more than 2 PCs, or even just 2 in the case of JO or BF:V, you're going to get lost sent packets, or at least have them stacking, causing some really really funky lag effects.
So just watch that one.

You don't upload as much as you download even in Battlefield. I've ran four PC's off a 1.5mb/128k line before and had no problem even in full large servers. And even though they said 128k, speed tests showed that was only around 95k. The only information you send is the info of your toon not evey single thing you see on your screen. Battlefield only uses about 10k down and 3kb up on average. Luckily I don't have to worry about any download or upload limits anymore with a T1.

Currently Playing: AC2, WW2Online
Retired: Everquest, DAoC
Quit: SWG

TaskyZZ · August 2004

Originally posted by Naithin

Why then does DSL get such a better ping over dialup since they both use the same cables? Cos it's a different, and better protocol (for DSL) and since it's split off from the frequencies of voice, isn't getting quite so garbled. It is NOT simply the fact that you have more bandwidth that is increasing the speed.

OK, if you are going to give lessons, make sure you know what you are talking about.

The reason the latency (ping times) on dialup are so slow is becase there are two conversions from analog to digital taking place for each packet you send or recieve.

So, if you ping a site, you have your system converting from digital to analog, then your ISP converts that packet from analog back to digital, then the packet goes to where you are trying to send it digitally. Then when that host responds, the same thing happens in reverse.

So for one ping you have four analog/digital convrsions. Each taking from 40 to 50ms a piece.

So, a DSL line might ping something at 60ms, a modem would get the same ping at 40ms*4 + 60ms = 220ms.

That is why you never see ping times lower than 200-220 ms with a modem.

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