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I, the Guild Master of a guild with a Full Tier 1 City just got banned
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I have a simple solution to this. Fix your damn game so people can't use exploits to make money. I'm not saying it's right to exploit, but we all know if people find a shortcut they are going to take it and spread the word via hacker sites ect. Vanguard was a great example of that. They let exploits linger for 6 months and did nothing about it. I have heard several reports just like the OP so this is not an isolated incident.
That whole "we can't discuss accounts" is the the typical bullshit every MMO company uses. They aren't going to come out and say we banned any account with more than X amount of money if in fact that's what they did. It's a pretty dumb thing to do to ban an account just to investigate. It's their game they can ban who they want, but if they banned me just because they thought I might have done something wrong id be looking for a new game. Banning anyone without proof that they deliberately did something wrong is really bad for PR. If you ban someone that knew they were cheating they are likely to just go away but if you ban someone that wasn't cheating they are going to shout it from the highest mountain top on every forum.
The big mistake was swining the ban hammer. Even taking the time out and telling them that they have to suspend an account for investigation is always better then blindly banning people. You'll still get angry but they'll get over it if their account is fine.
And for the AoC community. Wow, what a piece of work. We hear one persons side of the story, and you're ready to lynch them. Even after Funcom says there may have been mistaken bans, you people still insult the OP. It's so easy to judge, but if you were in that position tell me you wouldn't act the same way. It was depressing watching the comments degrade from helpful suggestions, and emails to people telling the OP they deserved it. Now that's community.
The only one to be blamed is Funcom....if the bug was known 2 weeks before EA and from then till now it`s been almost a month and nothing has been done.For me it's sound unprofessional.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
Gee Adam. A Lot of people here disagree with you and your companies harsh banning policies.
I almost feel kinda bad for ya.
Wait, you got my money. I don't feel bad anymore.
If you are truely innocent then I am sorry this has happened. If you are level-headed and follow the procedures I am sure you will be reinstated and perhaps be given something in return (for being unjustly accused--and banned). Good luck.
However if you did cheat and exploit then glad to see you go (and anybody else that cheats/exploits), as that sort of player is not good for any game or community no matter how one tries to paint the picture.
For those out there that say it is Funcom's fault for having the exploit in there....right.....Deep down you know it is wrong if you have any sense of right and wrong in life (and I am sure you do). Just because you are able to go incognito in these games that does not mean it gives you a license to cheat/steal/grief etc. Every game has bugs and every game will always have bugs, period; that doesn't mean they should be exploited.
This is why I always lean towards the official side until I can see something more definitive for myself. I've seen this time and time again. SOE with EQ2 said the same thing, Blizzard with WoW, and so on and so forth. They all said they can't just ban at will.
While I disagree with the compensation part, if found innocent, I'm not about to argue with someone who says they pulled in a 96+ hour alloted time of work.
Edit: additional content
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Anyways, for one if you really have made it this far already to build a city and the such i feel you are either playing way too much (sleep and eating are good things to do), or you were in fact exploiting. Everything you do in the game is recorded in a log and Funcom are able to view those anytime they wish seeing how in mmos theres not such thing as invasion of privacy. Therefore i cannot help but think you are amd or a good majority of your guild are exploiting. The logs pretty much do not lie once recorded so something in there must of not looked to good in the eyes of Funcom. They don't just look to see that you have a lot of money they can determine why that may be through logs, but when they see major jumps of money with no source that's a sign. I myself hate cheaters and if you are cheating/exploiting then THANK GOD they banned you. If not i'm sorry...contact them and work out the issue.
It DOES state in the interview by Ten Ton Hammer and Funcom that there are some innocents that have been banned.................before you go off accusing EVERYONE of being guilty of cheating.
A similar thing happened with LOTRO....Turbine's program to detect cheaters....had its perameters set too wide (explanation that we were given) and thus alot of innocent people got banned..........which necessitated Turbine coming out and offering an apology. No company HAS to offer an apology for actions taken...no gaming company that is....but Turbine did it in the interests of maintaining good relations with their player base.
The other unfortunate thing that occurs when people get falsely accused and banned...is that the general run of the mill player automatically believes that they are ALL CHEATERS and all deserve banning...which is not the case.
Just wait out this period before you start pointing fingers at people in accusation, I am sure Funcom will eventually get around to fixing their mistakes......and hopefully the wrongfully banned will at least get a public apology..............
Cend
Well, without knowing all the facts, it's hard to make up an opinion. However, i don't agree with the way FC is acting in that manner. The HIT first and ask question later is a rude way of doing business.
I didnt take part in AoC beta. I simply entered preorder play one week earlier.
And whola, the first thing we noticed IN THE FIRST DAY was that the traders were duping items and money. My guildmate was one of the first ones to report that to a GM. After that day we got periodic server announcements from GMs about not to use bank duping EVERY DAY. It was no bigsurprise when the traders were taken off.
Maybe you missed that daily warnings, maybe a few missed, but did 100 people from your guild missed that?
You sir, are a liar, and I am happy that you got banned. I wish all those who help you willingly get banned soon as well.
(They announced about traders in 3 languages even, in case you dont know english and couldnt read the warnings :P )
Quote "It DOES state in the interview by Ten Ton Hammer and Funcom that there are some innocents that have been banned.................before you go off accusing EVERYONE of being guilty of cheating."
It also states that the ones that were innocent have had their accounts reinstated already and they have systems in place to prevent it from happening again - also they have systems in place that detects the difference from exploiting gold and those that transfer money to one player to pool thier resources.
He and his guildies exploited and they got caught - plan and simple.
Please read before posting. All of his guildmates "handed" or "gave" all their earned money to him since the game is broke, traders, banking, etc. to hold, as the guild leader, so they could build their city. What you posted has nothing to do with this thread. What do those warnings have to do with people letting him hold their money?
What I don't understand is why they are banning people because they are using the game that was sold to them. If you create something and it has flaws, you don't punish the people who found the flaw you fix the flaw. Is there a giant warning sign that floats by when you are using this flaw? How are player supposed to know that the system is flawed?
You can not take the assumtion that everyone who profitted from the flaw did it while fully understanding it was broken. Even if they did its the designers fault for not spending the time to fix the issue before they sold their product.
Banning people for this type of situation is just arrogance on behalf of Funcom. They think they can blanket ban people and fix it later without recourse. You destroy guilds by doing things like this. You make people not want to play anymore. Personally if I am playing a game and the designers decide to ban me because I found some unfair advantage in a game that they didn't fix fast enough I will never play that game again. Sending me a warning first so that I know what I am doing is not working as intended is what I would expect. If I continued to utilize the flaw after being warned then a ban would be justified. But to just ban people out of the blue because your game is broken is pure ass-hattery.
Were do most of you flamer/fanbois live? Do none of you go by Innocent till proven guilty?
There is no reason what so ever to not trust the OP. It has thrown me off the bridge of not buying or trying the game its bug ridden and devs/gms don't care about their player community.
Its been shown with gms contacting players for Group PvP whats with that. Threats of bans for pking people. And on top of that they have to take down sertin features in the game because they are able to be used to exploit?
This game sounds nothing more than a huge beta, and theres no way im paying to play nore, am i going to give FC the chance to call me a hacker/exploiter then make their decicsion if i really was or was not.
You guys need to stop being do damn hot headed. FC is doing horrible, this game the way its going is going to be the biggest failure ever.
Wiccan........are you judge and jury.....that "not any more" response indicates envy and jealousy.. toward the OP and his guild.
How do you know if he's guilty or not? You don't...you are ASSUMING. Which..if it turns out later he's innocent........is not going to look good on you is it?
Funcom has already stated that some "innocents" were banned along with the guilty.........they were banned first and THEN...the file was being investigated on a case by case basis.
I have already seen this happen in another MMO...which proved a little embarrassing for the game company...ie Turbine.
I don't think anyone should be sitting here in this thread ASSUMING that they know what actually happened in this case.
And to the Staff Writer that repeatedly posted about some exploiting in that RAvine....you asked in OOC.....how valid is that? That is not proof...that is hearsay and gossip being passed on by word of mouth.
How about we let Funcom and the OP decide between themselves if this person is guilty or not.
Usual procedure is innocent until proven guilty...................................
Lets try to keep a lid on our overzealous....pitchforks and the tar and feathers...til the REAL facts surface, otherwise we are no better than the cavemen that crawled out of the caves a few thousand years ago.
Yeesh
Cend
Congrats, you had a full city to sit around in and admire as it did nothing at all but use up your time and resources
they aren't banning people on hearsay or out of spite. People are being banned based on facts. You are a fool if you think funcom can't track every piece of copper as it flows through the game. If a whole guild is punished for the actions of just a few members, I hope they can get it resolved.... but I don't doubt even a little bit that the level 80 guys running around with 100 gold got both f those things through liberal use of exploits.
I don't know anything about this specific case. I have no idea why this dude was really banned..As you can see, he isn't even sure. So we don't even have one full side of the story to go on. I am not accusing him or anyone in his guild of doing anything. I am just speaking in general on the policy of banning know exploiters. Big fan. It's good for the economy and community to kick those people out of the game.
There is nothing wrong with game if it is being played as intended. It isn't perfect, but it is better than most games I have played at launch. The implication that it is some huge buggy failure just shows your utter ignorance of the game.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
That is the most assinine statement I have yet to hear, and it appears to come from some dipshit that claims to be a Funcom employee. If this really is a Funcom employee, it shows a distinct lack of professionalism and judgement, and reflects very poorly on Funcom. It appears that, rather then explain/defend their actions, their sole purpose is to silence their detractors. If this is a Funcom employee, this response reflects non-existent customer relations skills, as it basically translates to "STFU".
Unless you have a non-disclosure statement signed by yourselves and the other party, Funcom cannot prevent that other party from going public and discussing the issue at question under US law. And, as the original poster is a US citizen, US law prevales, not Norwegian law.
And for a non-disclosure agreement to be enforceable in court, there must be an exchange of consideration, that is, you must give up something in consideration of the other party not disclosing your actions.
My suggestion is, that if you wish the parties you banned not to talk about your actions, you should pony up $1,000 to each party as consideration for signing a non-disclosure contract. There, now you have some free legal advice from a US lawyer.
Take you feeble attempt at censorship and shove it where the sun don't shine.
Ok? So regardless if it is Funcom rep or not. You are saying that the poster(the acclaimed Funcom rep) is saying that they are asking the banned to STFU or is he saying that he as a Funcom rep can't go into detail?
You pick. If you pick the latter one, I don't give much for your lawyer skill, sorry.
No place in his post does he say that as a Funcom employee he cannot go into detail. Also, no where in his post does he discuss Funcom gneral policy toward the bans, what is being done to address potentially unfair bans, what the time frame is for resolution, etc.
I understand that specific situations cannot be addressed. However, it this alledged Funcom employee had taken the time to present the Funcom position in a reasonable manner, rather than reflecting STFU as Funcom's poilicy, it would have shown much better customer relations.
As to my lawyer skill, it doesn't really matter to me what you think, I have the law degree, and have passed several bar exams and am licensed to practice in several states. And you?
I made a new script to determine cheaters within this post and I'm afraid your all fraken guilty. Every single one of you, guilty and banned from MMORPG.com. Perhaps some of you will have a problem with this. Tough shit ..... please direct all complaints to the appropriate email address. We'll deal with the mails when we can get to them ......
Is this so different from what Funcom did? Guilty until proven innocent is spot on. Why did Funcom do this? It's really simple ....... because they can. Would you put up with it in any other area of your life?
~Hairysun~
http://www.straightdope.com/
Wow... I remember the first time I "cursed" in EQ... I lost a level and like, 20 GM's showed up to wash my mouth out with soap. Then tey put a "swearing" filter in the game.
At least my frustration didn't get me banned; they protected the kiddies with a filter. Probably no worse than what their parents say while watching the superbowl, or doing their taxes.
Fix the BUG, not the PAYING CUSTOMER. Imagine a restaurant that has bad service and the customer "takes advantage" of a server and gets a whole lot of free sauce, or extra soup, or something, and that server is willing to bring it to them. FIRE THAT SERVER and make sure the customer realizes that they have to pay for extras in the future.
I'm assuming the banned user PAYED for hs original game and PAYED for the damned monthly fee (two months now?)... so what is that, over $100? Well over if he bought the limited edition.
Just do what FFXI did, Jailtime, and then back in the game. I guess FC and Hyboria is a Fascist regime.
When you sent an item or money from trader, it was getting duped immediately. If 100 people didnt notice that they were giving all their money over trader, and their money was staying in their pocket... I dont know what to tell about these 100 persons.
Well you can tell that all these people made a visit to the guild boss to give money 1 by 1 instead of sending from trader which is in every starter place... then yeah the guy would be innocent as Snowwhite.
Just I want to ask the defenders of this guy 1 question. How is it possible not to notice Item duping by 100 person?
I myself, found a nice item for my friend, sent it to my friend from trader. A strange magic and we got 2 of the item. My friend called GM and 1 answered 1 hour later (Now it takes days till they asnwer
. At that time people were screaming over OOC channel how to dupe items openly.
That was day 1 after opening. These guys became level 80 and didnt notice what we noticed at level 10? Come on.
That is the most assinine statement I have yet to hear, and it appears to come from some dipshit that claims to be a Funcom employee. If this really is a Funcom employee, it shows a distinct lack of professionalism and judgement, and reflects very poorly on Funcom. It appears that, rather then explain/defend their actions, their sole purpose is to silence their detractors. If this is a Funcom employee, this response reflects non-existent customer relations skills, as it basically translates to "STFU".
Unless you have a non-disclosure statement signed by yourselves and the other party, Funcom cannot prevent that other party from going public and discussing the issue at question under US law. And, as the original poster is a US citizen, US law prevales, not Norwegian law.
And for a non-disclosure agreement to be enforceable in court, there must be an exchange of consideration, that is, you must give up something in consideration of the other party not disclosing your actions.
My suggestion is, that if you wish the parties you banned not to talk about your actions, you should pony up $1,000 to each party as consideration for signing a non-disclosure contract. There, now you have some free legal advice from a US lawyer.
Take you feeble attempt at censorship and shove it where the sun don't shine.
My hat goes off to you... Conspiracy Theory +1
I believe you've misinterpreted what was stated. And that is in part due to how it was presented, my apologies for not being more precise.
How is this a conspiracy theory if you yourself admit that your presentation was not what you intended. Quite frankly, the Funcom policy of not allowing public access to the AOC community forums unless the game was purchased does not indicate Funcom support of open communication. Many potential buyers, myself included, wanted access to these forums to determine whether we should buy. Questions like what video cards are supported (most Nvidia, few ATI it appears) and other questions. I know, I tried accessing the AOC forums several times.
At no point did I state that the end user could not openly discuss their viewpoint of the events. The point is, that it is Funcom who does not discuss the specific details of an account with the public.
At no point did you chose to discuss general Funcom policy and procedures to alleviate potential customer concerns. You did not address what actions led to the bans, how Funcom determines bans, how an appeal procedure works, and what the time frames are. Your statement was one that this is a private concern, so STFU.
With that said, there is also no guarantee that I represent Funcom nor that the OP was ever a customer.
No there is not, which is why I pointed out that you are either a dipshit, or a Funcom employee behaving in an unprofessional manner.
So assuming I am a Funcom employee, and that I am correct in my statement that no one has been banned for gold related issues since the May 27th downtime through the 1st of June. Also, taking into account the OP reports he was banned for pooling gold on the 31st. One of us is mistaken.
We can also assume you are a dipshit trying to sound like a Funcom employee. We can assume you are incorrect. We can assume the OP is incorrect. We can assume you are both trolls. That is the point of my post saying that your reply is assinine and unprofessional. If you are a Funcom employee, behave properly, come onto this forum, address the gold banning issue in a proper, professional manner, discuss how any potential errors are being addressed, and address the time frame of resolution.
Players of your game that are members of existing guilds that are concerned about their guilds future have a right to know. Those of us sitting on the fence evaluating your game/company would like to see something more than "STFU". Public relations like that sends the wrong signal. So, you are either a troll dipshit, or an piss poor example of Funcom customer service. Or maybe, you are the shining example of how piss poor Funcom customer service is? You pick.
Respectfully,
Adam "De`Valos" Young
Lead Database Administrator
Funcom Inc.
*edit typos abound
That is the most assinine statement I have yet to hear, and it appears to come from some dipshit that claims to be a Funcom employee. If this really is a Funcom employee, it shows a distinct lack of professionalism and judgement, and reflects very poorly on Funcom. It appears that, rather then explain/defend their actions, their sole purpose is to silence their detractors. If this is a Funcom employee, this response reflects non-existent customer relations skills, as it basically translates to "STFU".
Unless you have a non-disclosure statement signed by yourselves and the other party, Funcom cannot prevent that other party from going public and discussing the issue at question under US law. And, as the original poster is a US citizen, US law prevales, not Norwegian law.
And for a non-disclosure agreement to be enforceable in court, there must be an exchange of consideration, that is, you must give up something in consideration of the other party not disclosing your actions.
My suggestion is, that if you wish the parties you banned not to talk about your actions, you should pony up $1,000 to each party as consideration for signing a non-disclosure contract. There, now you have some free legal advice from a US lawyer.
Take you feeble attempt at censorship and shove it where the sun don't shine.
My hat goes off to you... Conspiracy Theory +1
I believe you've misinterpreted what was stated. And that is in part due to how it was presented, my apologies for not being more precise.
At no point did I state that the end user could not openly discuss their viewpoint of the events. The point is, that it is Funcom who does not discuss the specific details of an account with the public.
With that said, there is also no guarantee that I represent Funcom nor that the OP was ever a customer.
So assuming I am a Funcom employee, and that I am correct in my statement that no one has been banned for gold related issues since the May 27th downtime through the 1st of June. Also, taking into account the OP reports he was banned for pooling gold on the 31st. One of us is mistaken.
Respectfully,
Adam "De`Valos" Young
Lead Database Administrator
Funcom Inc.
*edit typos abound
Either way the post is pointless. It doesn't give any specific information, and it's broad enough so that you're not tied to a damn word you say but created in a way that makes you look like you're in an authoritive position to give your 2 cents.
Regardless.. people should not be banned for exploits. Everyone on this thread that says "Oh cheaters should be banned" exploiting isn't really a cheat... especially if it came in the original code that the developers produced. They made their game that way, so they shouldn't get pissed if someone finds out they screwed up an otherwise mundane detail.
It's like if before a basketball game the NBA puts a trampoline in the paint of a basketball court. During a game 2 people might use the trampoline to slam dunk. The NBA "OH no thats cheating, kick them out of the game!" The player. "Well why is the trampoline on the court in the first place?"
Blame funcom, don't blame the player. Unless he's using a 3rd party program it's absolutely NOT his fault whether it's gold, or an XP exploit when killing a monkey, or if he found an exploit to fly on a magical pink pony, if they put it in the game, he should be able to use it.. THE END. If Funcom doesn't like it.. fix it you idiots!
Assuming NBA players are constructed like the rest of us humans they have feets. Is it ok to kick the basketball?
Funny thing about the NBA, they allow free throws as penalty shots, or the referee blows the whistle and allows the other team a throw in for a rules infraction. Seldom do players get thrown out, even less frequently do they get suspended....and I have yet to see the league permanently ban a player.
Isn't that just freaking amazing!
Did he say they were using the trader? Did he say they were all 80? Did he say anything in regards to that? You keep talking like they were all duping on the trader and then gave him the exploited money, then he got banned.
You're just making up what you think happened and not reading his post.
Maybe we could know why he was banned first, then discuss the merits of his ban and whether Funcom had good cause and acted fairly.
But these forum boards are not a court of law. They are the court of public (forum) opinion. And it looks like we don't need facts to make up some minds around here. All some need are assumptions and accusations and we are ready to pass judgement on Funcom and Adam, a guy that worked 96 hours last week and took time on his one day off to come here and make some reasoned comments. But where is there room for reason when there is no solid ground to base this thread upon.
But if we look at this issue from the reverse: Mind you I am not saying this is the case, in Baseline's situation.
Let's first assume Funcom is a business that relys upon customer subscriptions. Pretty safe assumption.
Now with this assumption in place, why would Funcom randomly ban a customer without any sort of reason?
Baseline would have you believe he was banned because he is a guild leader and had pooled guild cash, and that Funcom incorrectly banned him because his guild had X amount of gold. In Baseline's own words he has stated that that was an assumption on his part and not yet verified through official channels with Funcom.
Yet I've clearly stated that could not have been the case because any account that was banned for gold related issues was done so immediately after the maintenance window on the 27th of May. I've also stated that those effected by the gold related bans were investigated prior to bans being issued, in a rather involved methodology far exceeding the conspiracy theory that anyone with X gold was banned.
Now back to that initial assumption about it being rather odd for a company to ban an account without reason. With that in mind, one would expect that Funcom would have had sufficient reason to ban an account prior to issuing said ban, vs the conspiracy theory that Funcom is just randomly banning innocent players without any reason.
It simply defys all logic that a company dependent upon customer subscriptions would just randomly ban an account for no reason. Long and short of the situation, Funcom conducts research before issuing a ban.
Adam "De`Valos" Young
Lead Database Administrator
Funcom Inc.
*added in the sig. and thanks for the concern as to my state of employment. And here I thought we were all having an open and mature discussion accepting of all opinions and input.
You know, the sig "Lead Database Administrator Funcom Inc" appears and disappears in his various posts, he always uses the term "Funcom", and never "we", and is incapable of discussion of Funcom policy and procedures regarding banning, remedies, and estimated time frames.
I think this guy is a troll pretending to be a Funcom employee, which is against the rules of MMORPG forums. Hopefully the mods here will ban him for his conduct.
What a tool......
My last point for this thread, The fact that so many innocent people were banned that they were forced to publicly acknowledge the situation is a terrible thing. It's a shame we even have cases where many innocents were banned and that is why there is so much doubt in Funcom's action in situations like these. How am I supposed to wholeheartedly believe Funcom is right when they've made mistakes like this before.