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Is JE really going to be that different from EVE, or are they cut from the same mold?
Kyleran
Member LegendaryPosts: 44,069
Yeah, they say it won't be an EVE clone, but is that true? Here's some quotes from the April/May issue of GFW from Herman Perterscheck, lead producer for the game. (my comments all in yellow)
"Players chose one of three factions (EVE has 4), and then take part in their own space adventure. This includes combat, trading, mining, crafting and so on." - Hmm... just like EVE. He goes on to say " Many typical MMO experiences are in the game, including quests, advancement, loot and things like that." - Just like EVE.
Now here's the big difference of course, " In Jumpgate you fly your ship, and combat is skill-based as opposed to [EVE] more strategy-centric type of control scheme." I'd venture to say that its all a matter of how we define the word "skill". Trust me, it takes real skill to fight your ship in EVE, but not point, click, & twitch reflexes. But thats a discussion for another thread.
"We've also tried to give the game a gentler learning curve [than EVE]; (translation, we've dumbed the game down to a more understandable level, sort of like WOW I suppose) while we will have a deep and player-driven economy (just like EVE), we want to make sure people can jump right in without spending a lot of time learning how to play." I'll concede this approach is different, but is it better? We'll see.
The author of the article (Ryan Scott) goes on to say, "And not to keep comparing the two, but as with EVE, don't expect to explore any far-flung planets because ship-to-ship combat's the key focus." (does this sound familiar to anyone?) Also, "Your ship and its capabilities define your role (rather than say, a strict character class, which Evolution eschews;" (just like EVE!).
Now here is a significant difference, "As you complete missions and accrue experience, your character earns licences that yield access to better equipment, resources and economic benefits..... "Leveling up does not mean you automatically get tougher or get some special set of skills that you train" I'll grant, this is in stark contrast to EVE's real-time training of skills which some folks despise. Matter of preference I suppose, but it is a real difference, perhaps the 2nd one I've seen thus far.
Here's something that probably won't please the hardcore PVP fans from the original game. Peterscheck states, "My hope is that we can create a game that has opportunities for both [PVE & PVP], who notes that most MMO's fail to properly balance the two play styles. "There's a tendency for developers to pick one side and half-support the other, which really makes people understandably angry. I think the better [solution] is to support both." (IMO, you cannot create a game that effectively pleases both sides, but thats again a topic for another thread). He continues, "If you are doing lots of cool PVP stuff, the rewareds should equal the PVE rewards, but tailored to the PVP experience. (well, this sort of sounds like AOC/WOW to me, not EVE). If you add some badass PVE content, make sure you give the PVP'ers some good stuff as well. (laudible goal, we'll see if they can deliver.)
He continues with, "We're still working on the specifics (translation, we have no clue yet) but there will be some kind of PVP in space (let's hope) - either through PVP servers (sounds like old Jumpgate), regulated and unregulated space (a la EVE), PVP flagging (sounds like WOW) or a mix of the above. (smart thinking here). WE are also looking at instanced PVP experiences. (ugh, not a fan of this, but some love it.)
Finally, we get the prize line to sum up the article. "As for Peterscheck's ideal combat scenario, think Star Wars: "When I imagine cool space battles, my mind goes to the typical scene of two giant capital ships coming closer and closer together, volleying shots at each other while tons of smaller ships fight and aid their side. Wouldn't that be fun".
LOL, yes, it sure is fun , we do that in EVE all the time. Just in the past two weeks I've been in fleet engagements where several Titans from both sides squared off along with about 40 Dreadnaughts and 150 smaller support ships. Peterscheck should come give it a try.
Now in all fairness, JE is based on the original Jumpgate, which released prior to EVE, so I guess it would be fair to say EVE is more of a clone of Jumpgate than the other way around.
But in the end, I see fewer differences between the two games, and I don't think the joystick style combat really makes it that much difference. (unless of course, you love FPS style fighting, the of course this is going to matter to you)
I'm just not seeing JE as being hugely different from EVE, just another refinement of an existing model with a few different design choices.
Forgive any spelling errors, I couldn't locate this online, so I re-typed all the quotes. And I'm not really trying to down JE, I intend to play it to see if it does bring anything new to the genre that EVE hasn't already provided.
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Comments
Ehm.. Jumpgate Evolution is a mmorpg.. so ofcourse it will have the basic elements that most mmorpgs have.
What you highlightet as being similar to Eve can also be found in almoust all mmo's. I mean have you played a mmo without combat, trading, mining, crafting? all have atlest one of these elements.
Yeah, ofcourse it takes some kind of skill to play EvE (Patience of Shaolin Munks) but thats not the same Skill when you play Jumpgate Evolution.. Its FPS. Now lets not derail this to My p is bigger then your p.
So whats wrong in making it start out like WoW? thats 100 better then the EvE tutorial. Still it doesnt have to play like WoW just cause it starts Easy. Ofcourse its better.. Subscribers WoW > Subs EvE. But I dont like neither of them.
PVP servers is not like old Jumpgate.. Jumpgate Classic has PVP tags, regulated and unregulated space and instanced battleground aka Simulator.
Eve Fleet battle < JG fleet battle.
My cool sig: Turrets suck.
Frankly if they make this game exactly like EVE, but with joystick based twitch combat, I'll be on it like a fat kid on a Twinkie.
Out of ship content would be a bonus, but I think EVE is actually going to get that before JE does.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
Well, I have played Jumpgate Classic and EVE. I wouldn't say its like comparing apples and oranges, more like red and green apples. Almost the same on the outside, big difference when you take a bite.
Skill in Eve combat. Yes, it takes skill if your evenly matched with your opponent. Ok, lets be honest here, how often does that happen. Most people won't engage someone unless they know they have a 90+% chance of winning.
Now in Jumpgate, you might be attacked by someone with a bigger ship, better guns etc. but you still have a shot. If the other guy can't fly worth a damn, you can still tear him up.
Not knocking Eve, played almost 2.5 years with about the last 8 months in 0.0.
I would recommend trying out the trial of Jumpgate Classic for a few days to get a rough feel of what your going to be looking at in JE. Fly around, kill a few Flux. Load your hold full of Uranium and see how it drastically changes your handling.
That's why I watch the development of Jumpgate Evolution too. EVE is very nice in many ways, but now and then I'd like a bit more immediate control of the ship.
If NetDevil can pull it off to include flight/combat in Wing Commander style, I might be tempted to switch games.
In terms of out of ship content, CCP(Eve) have hinted at a possible release in late 2008. But it will be for eyecandy and RP opportunities rather than lots of new gameplay features.
They are completely different in essence. I played Jumpgate for a year or so then moved over to EVE. I will definitely play JE as well as EVE because they are different. First in JE you control the ship 100% and skill is everything...almost. In PvE and PvP its how well you fly your ship and fire at the right time, even has zero-G so you need to work out how to fire thrusters to slide etc. In EVE I can play for hours because its more of a thinking game. In JE I could only play 2-3 hours maximum because its too intense! Even mining and landing a barge is scary. Imagine how nerve racking it is when you mine for 1 hour then your ship is even harder to move because of the weight. If you hit an asteroid...boom!..if you hit a jumpgate...boom!..when you try to land and you miss the dock...boom!! There are many times I smashed my keyboard in anger but in a way thats why JE will work just like Jumpgate. You really really feel like you are playing the game because its very unforgiving. Also develops new culture in an MMO. Its interesting when you see players announcing...'Barge coming through!' and if you cut off other players or nudge their ship into the side I can tell you its not pretty in local chat
So yes both are in space and have spaceships but they are very very different. Not for the faint hearted I can tell you...
Consider the following thought experiment:
Give 2 or more developers the same list of what should be included in their next MMO and let them develop their game according to the specification independent of one another.
No matter how detailed the specification is, their finished products wont play out in the same way.
They would have lots (if not all) things in common but they wouldn't play out in the same way!
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
Well put. That's what I'm thinking too.
Funny with the EVE fanbois; they seem to seriously belive playing that borefest takes skill.
Way to break it down, Captain Obvious.
All that I can really see from the OP is pointing out features that EvE has, but are not just limited to EvE, but are pretty much spanned across the whole MMO market in one form or another.
I for one am really looking forward to this game. I enjoyed many aspects of EvE but got bored due to lack of action, this game should solve that nicely! The key now is not to explode before beta from impatience. I really hope Jumpgate delievers on the PvP front like EvE did as well, and the project manager has said already that terretory based squad warefare will play a major role in the game, so I think im in love!
Also, JGE will, from the looks of it, be more like a mix between freelancer & freespace, but with a larger universe than freelancer and bigger fights than freespace, and a solid economy system.
I was looking forward to it too, until I started reading about how it will be consensual pvp stuff and separate servers etc, instead of one big world that many players interact in, such as eve..
Will still keep a watch on this title though, might still be fairly interesting
Also, JGE will, from the looks of it, be more like a mix between freelancer & freespace, but with a larger universe than freelancer and bigger fights than freespace, and a solid economy system.
Yes, it looks as thought JGE will be a combination of a large number of the space-flight-sim games that we all love. People instantly want to compare it to EvE, just because it is in space. EvE is really more of a single unit RTS style game, whereas jumpgate gives you far more control over your single unit, and is really a space-flight sim, whereas EvE seems to be more a space-navigation sim.
they have said for a fact that there will be open PVP servers, and even on the non open PVP servers it will work like eve, where the faction space is protected and the rest is not. As for there beign different servers, they will be fairly large, and I know that doesn't seem the same, you have to remember lag will be a BAD thign in this game, and theyre only goign to make them as big as they can without ruinign the expeirence. We ahve been told though this number will be in the thousands and in no way will space be empty
You actually FLY in JumpGate! When do you do that in EVE? It's pretty much just Warp, Jump, Warp, Jump, Warp, maybe a little bit of approaching something in between. Fleet battles seem to be mostly getting in range, everyone targeting the same, click. Yeah, I'm neither an EVE nor a JG(C/E) expert, and there's frigates and other small ships buzzing about during those standoffs, but do you really do stuff like dogfighting, outmaneuvering, dodging and actually aiming in EVE? There's no turrets controlled by random number generators on JG's ships (last time I checked, been a while).
And now I fogot where I've been driving at. Good job
I could not agree with you more, but when people hear RTS their toughts instantly wander into armies and building cities.
One thing i really like about this game so far is how open and available to contact the dev team is. It's been really refreshing to have such access. Communication is key and they have been really upfront about a lot of things (within reason, some things they can't talk about due it still being a work in progress!) Their enthusiasm is infectious, I can't wait to play it
give me a nice graphics engine, in-ship and out of ship combat and content, decent crafting, and space-combat on par with Freespace: The Great War, Xwing, or Tie Fighter.. and I'm so f'ing there it's silly.
>_> <_< ^_^
Eve Online economy sucks.
Pre-CU SWG economy is infinately better....then everything.
-decay
-no NPC drops
-Everything player made
-Thumpers not manually mining
-lots of housing
-NO INSTANCING!
Something for the OP creator to bare in mind.
JGE is a continuation of the 'Jumpgate' storyline/universe.
As such alot of it's content and focus will be exactly that of it's original game, which was a space simulation MMO with mining, trading, PvP and PvE.
Also remember that the original Jumpgate was in beta back before EVE alpha was even created. And by the time EVE started their closed beta Jumpgate had already been at a retail launch stage for about 2 years.
So I think the main question isn't if JGE is using EVE-features rather then being original, and more Is JGE going to acknowledge the faults of it's original and improve itself.
You don't think there's anything amiss? I'm sat here wearing a red and white gingham dress, and army boots, you think that's un-amiss?
The only similarities are that they are both set in space.
EVE is a stat-based RPG
JGE is a twitch-based space combat game
TBH i think this is very much a cleaner version of Earth and beyond. If it is or on the same track i will be very much interested, if its like eve then i wont.
Earth and beyond was a great game in its time, i do hope this is what we will see. The comment on races E&B had also 3.
For what i have read so far E&B old fans will be looking forward to this and hoping it has the same type of magic. So fingers crossed and i look forward to what the end results are.
the difference of FPS combat is a WORLD of difference for me. turns it from I game I could never enjoy for even 10 minutes (EvE) to a game I might actually enjoy playing.
eve might have the best concepts in the world but I cannot play that game its just too boring.
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