Relating to recreating an atmosphere of danger/difficuIty/discovery, I think it would be interesting if at some level, near the upper tiers of the game, it started becoming incredibly difficult to level up and stay that level. Perhaps experience loss due to death could start going up exponentially, creating a situation where it was fairly rare to have character within 5 levels of the level cap, let alone actually at the level cap.
For example, if the level cap were 50, I think it might create a compelling community if there were only a few hundred characters between 45 and 49, and only 5-10 level 50's. The idea would be that the power and ability of the characters would be reflective of the rarity of getting to/maintaining such a level. A guild would be considered fortunate and powerful if they had a single level 50 character, and their specific strengths as a guild would be highly dependent on what class that level 50 character is.
I like to imagine abilities, such as opening a portal to another plane, that would require the cooperative casting of say, 2 level 50 wizards, and a 50 magician. If there were already 2 level 50 wizards on the server, and a level 49 magician, then the entire server would be watching closely as the level 49 magician got closer to 50, because it would potentially mean the opening of entirely new world content for everyone.
World setups such as this would provide an interesting atmosphere all around...much more entertaining than max level simply being an inevitability.
There will never be another, thank goodness! The game sucked endlessly and now there is competition and we don't have to put up with one crappy game because we can find one that is better than forced this and forced that. Mosted HATED that part of Everquest and quit because of it.
Relating to recreating an atmosphere of danger/difficuIty/discovery, I think it would be interesting if at some level, near the upper tiers of the game, it started becoming incredibly difficult to level up and stay that level. Perhaps experience loss due to death could start going up exponentially, creating a situation where it was fairly rare to have character within 5 levels of the level cap, let alone actually at the level cap. For example, if the level cap were 50, I think it might create a compelling community if there were only a few hundred characters between 45 and 49, and only 5-10 level 50's. The idea would be that the power and ability of the characters would be reflective of the rarity of getting to/maintaining such a level. A guild would be considered fortunate and powerful if they had a single level 50 character, and their specific strengths as a guild would be highly dependent on what class that level 50 character is.
I like to imagine abilities, such as opening a portal to another plane, that would require the cooperative casting of say, 2 level 50 wizards, and a 50 magician. If there were already 2 level 50 wizards on the server, and a level 49 magician, then the entire server would be watching closely as the level 49 magician got closer to 50, because it would potentially mean the opening of entirely new world content for everyone.
World setups such as this would provide an interesting atmosphere all around...much more entertaining than max level simply being an inevitability.
OMG man I love this idea. That is freaking incredible!!!! As long as everyone realizes that the "real" level cap is, say, 45, then they won't get as pissed when they find it near impossible to maintain 50. But, as they get 46, 47, etc., to 50, they get some real power.
I think if this is the case, the max level loss for a given day is one level. So, if they die ten times at a raid, they only go down to 49; and don't lose so many months of work.
I think this is an interesting alternative to the current MMOs where levels have only one place to go...up. Ok you're level 80 now with 1,000AA. But think for a minute how much more impressive it would be to be level 50 in a world where it is unattainable for most everyone.
ALTERNATIVE. Hey, let's blend in some Planetside mechanics. For example, in Planetside, difficult abilities are obtained by killing numerous enemies without dying yourself. So, rather than giving a super stiff death penalty, instead require them to "kill 20 mean mobs without dying" It's different in EQ because it is much easier to kill NPCs than PCs; so I'm not sure how to tune this. But you get the idea.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
There will never be another, thank goodness! The game sucked endlessly and now there is competition and we don't have to put up with one crappy game because we can find one that is better than forced this and forced that. Mosted HATED that part of Everquest and quit because of it.
I hate you so much for getting the FBoW. I quit years ago, right after they started bringing out Fabled things, and I knew that the day would come that a FBoW would drop... and I also knew I wouldn't be playing still.
On the subject, I think their best attempt was the progression server, but that obviously didn't go too well, I quit that by Kunark. Maybe if they tried the progression server again, but took the time and effort to really bring back the original game, i.e. basic spells, no special drops, and the horribly-awesome grindfest. One or two guilds just need not to monopolize the higher level content and the situation will work itself out.
I played on Veeshan from June 1999 till 2002, guild upset some folks in foh and CT, so I moved with a friend to Firiona Vie. (the special ruleset server, where almost everything except epics was tradable/never boe, which suprisingly had a very mixed but reliable community..)
I left the game in 2005, then came back for 6 months in 2006. Disks for all 11 expansions are deep in storage boxes.
To me, unless they rebuild eq1 with a new engine, and update some other componets, eq1 is a pleasant memory, but one I wouldn't head back to. If eq3 is indeed around the corner ( with sony the corner seems to be a 3-5 year time frame) the gameplay from eq1, combined with new ideas, no eq2 stuff and maybe some real 'class balancing' they might just get a niche market that would support the game.
I played EQ the second year it was out and it still today is my favorite game.
The closest MMO ive played that has rivaled it was Final Fantasy XI
As it was built on community, forcing you to party and making solo play worthless after the early levels.
The Sheer difficulty of taking a character to max level taking 1-2 years where it would only begin the amount of content Endgame would hold.
There was no PvP besides 'Ballista' -A PvP game might you say- this further pushed the community to a positive state of helping eachother then Mindless PvP.
FFXI is one of few MMOs that Take Away xp and can De-level you which makes you actually think through a strategy and having that sense of fear.
Everything that would need to make the Next great MMO has been said, and i hope that SE's new MMO that has been in the works for years now but has little information on it, will be the next Everquest in MMO history.
EDIT: I just read more of these replys and the EQ community could sure make an Awesome MMO, you guys have the Mind Set of True Creative and wonderfull thinking. (We should all get together and learn to code an engine and create the next 'EverQuest'
White wolf, or something close to that, was the best of them. Then Sony threatened them with a million dollar law suite, and they dissapeared with the promise to build their own engine, and release it free. forge style. I am yet to see or hear from them again..
On a side note, cause I am sure someone will jump on me for posting a 'hackers site link' and it will probably get edited out.. What harm would it do to Sony to allow folks to play the classic 3 ( up to velious) for free? It would get them hooked, and THEN if folks want to move up, they pay for a transfer/upgrade.
Then again they might be like me and be happy to play there for ever.
I dont think there will ever be another EQ or anything like it. Kinda like your first time we all know with who, when and where. Everytime after never the same. There are good games out there, but you'll never get that same feeling agian. EQ IMO started the online game industry. The community back then was great. I played SOLID for 6 years. The large raids and the fustration of getting flags added IMO to the charm and difficulty of the game. As the player base grew so did the all the crying on how hard the game is/was. Then came the dumb down, enter WOW and all the clones. You can make a game easy, fast leveling, cookie cutter gear equals tons of accounts $$$$.
Finally, maybe 38 studios has something good brewing that will be close to EQ, and not like the mindless dribble thats out there. As stated i played everyday for 6 years. With the games out there I havent made it a full year before cancelation.
This is 'just my opinion'™ which will probably differ greatly from many, so hopefully I don't get flamed too hard for it.
TLDR; Everyone is copying each other, money is the focus. No one's taking risks and forgot to ask themselves--is this game fun? through the different phases of development.
No, I don't think there will ever be a game like Everquest ever again, here's why:
Everquest was developed in a time where fierce competition wasn't the norm for MMO's. For many, it was a first, and developers could freely implement ideas without having the looming shadow of other rival companies threatening to take subscriptions. Ideas were original, and companies engaged in good old fashioned calculated risk taking.
Now the market is out of it's infancy. People recognize that there is a substantial amount of money in the genre and as such are fighting to get a piece of the pie. While I would never fault a business for their desires to flourish and be profitable, it seems that more and more games come out where they're all flash and no substance, all in the name of grabbing sub's from Mr. Average Joe. No one takes risks, no one keeps to their original 'vision'. It's all about investors, in their glorious tunnel vision, thinking another WoW imitator is going to become their golden goose egg.
There's more to it... Of course. Like the core fundamental of what a game should be: Fun. Just to cite an example, take Final Fantasy Tactics, versus Wild Arms XF. You'll hopefully have to look up the latter, and didn't get suckered into buying the game like myself. The first is a FUN, richly detailed, pleasing to the eye, story driven, highly customizable RPG. The latter is a richly detailed, pleasing to the eye, story driven, highly customizable RPG that insists you play their way else you will be digitally raped in new exciting ways before being treated to a very pretty game over screen.
Simply, to make another EQ one would need to make a hardcore mmo that would not appeal to consumer present day mmo players. Most of the first eq players came from MUDs, like Dragonrealms. You had no idea wtf was going on and had to find out for yourself.
Its all so spoonfed now with quest journals, waypoints, instant zone travels... whats the fun? Requiring a high level wizard to port you to somewhere was cool. Taking an hour and a half long dangerous trek with a horrible death penalty was cool. Having to actually boat across continents was awesome and dangerous as well, especially when a damn shark could eat your face on the boat due to bugs when you were low level.
I doubt an EQ game will come out ever again, its too standardized of an industry now. No one will try to break the mold that WoW has created, even if EQ and UO built the basis for that mold, and they were way more hardcore.
actually i think the market is going to head into a remake phase soon because they are going to realise the originals are much better games then rewashes and i feel they will take the originals and update them graphics wise and take the story arc in different directions .
like maybe instead of expansions expanding game and fracturing playerbase they will add story arcs and mini locations off of original continents eq got too big and spread out.
Some lead and some follow I prefer to stand beside!
EQ will be around for another 6 years easy. Because the player base is small, but deticated.
WoW will probly last another 2. BEcause all i here are players getting bored with the game and looking for a new MMO they can conqour in 2 weeks.
15 years to 6 years... hmm.... what game would you want to make in the 'Long Run".
But investors wont see that until WoW dies and EQ is still up and running with 200,000 people. Then maybe they will go back to the Hardcore ways of MMOs.
But until then, we can wait for an EQ fanatic to win the lottery and make there own MMO like that other guy said
I need to print out this thread, because the ideas herein are awesome and I want to save them. In the meantime, perhaps a shameless bump?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I have to disagree with some that think the feeling and memories you had from EQ when it was young can't be experienced again in a new game. Sure, a lot is because it was new and fresh, but I played Meridian 59, and UO for several years before EQ arrived, I still have lots of good memories from Meridian 59 and EQ, but hardly any from UO even though I enjoyed that too.
I want to mention a couple of points,in my opinion, why both Meridian 59 and EQ left such a big impression and long lasting memories.
1) Enviroment
Although the graphics probably look horrible today, at the time EQ was released it looked awesome, it felt awesome (and alive), but this still isn't the key, because we all know pretty graphics become fairly transparent and unimportant very shortly into the game. But what EQ had (and sadly lacking in todays mmorpgs), is that every single zone had it's own unique 'character' and surprises, no matter how large or small. I remember a little of my first time in West Karanas, god this zone was huge and although seemed fairly sparse, there were a lot of surprises here and so much fun to explore, the small undead camps, those freaky halloween pumpkin guy things on the farms (forget what they were called?), the nasty bandits hiding in the hills and that rare werewolf that I was attacked by once, as a noob and scared the living s**t out of me. There are other zones I could talk about that I have very fond memories of (Oasis of Marr for instance), but I just wanted to mention this..I think the enviroment in EQ was one of the most important reasons why it sticks in our memories.
2) Social Dungeons
My first experience in Blackburrow was a harsh one. Endlessly trying to progress down, only to be chased back up and out of the zone again by massive trains of Gnolls, yelping and splatting people with no mercy. My only hope - to find a group to survive this craziness! and what awesome fun that turned out to be..even though we still died a hell of a lot Splitpaw, SolB, Lguk, KC, Velk's..These were fairly tough (when they were new) dungeons, and so much fun, plus it was often in these places I would make a lot of friends. The dungeons in mmorpgs post-EQ suck in comparison and with all the instancing now, it seems we might never see a return to real social dungeons like these. EQ dungeons were something to be feared, they were a real challenge, I always felt a strong sense of accomplishment after a long and succesful dungeon grind.
3) Death Penalty and Game Difficulty
I agree with some of the other posters, games these days are WAY too easy, it lessens the feeling of accomplishment and concern for our characters, as a result the overall immersion and reward for playing the game becomes much less. On the other hand, I do think EQ was a little too harsh at launch, and I don't think remaking EQ this way would be wise or necessary..It wouldn't be difficult to find a good balance. But a steep levelling curve is a MUST imho. Actually, I much prefer skill based levelling myself, like Meridian 59 and UO had. EQ was a mixture of both, but levels were the most important. Although it's a bit off topic (or maybe not), I think one of the best things about Meridian 59 was the levelling/skill/spell system and it's a pity this system isn't used today, as it would appeal to both casual and hardcore players.
I'm also not a big fan of forced grouping, and it was always something that pissed me off about EQ, again it's very easy to find a balance here..WoW went too far the other way. There just need to be really good incentives for grouping, increased exp, and really fun social dungeons that can't really be solo'd effectively.
4) Instancing
If the rumours about EQ3 are true, I will assume they will use instancing like all mmorpgs seem to do these days. Personally, I hate instancing for many reasons, but used in the right way they can be a great thing. Think EQ as it used to be, but each dungeon could have mutliple instances each with a population cap of several groups (or whatever cap appropriate for the dungeon size) and you can eliminate a lot of harrasment and grief that used to be a problem in the past. It would also make finding a group much easier by instance hopping, instead of sat around doing nothing..which surely nobody liked!
5) Community and Social Interaction
Obviously the community is incredibly important, EQ seemed to me to have a very good and mature community, not many mmorpgs can boast that and you almost just could not HELP making friends. I play AoC now and the community seems very mature there too, maybe because of the rating, but the problem there is heavy instancing and ease of soloing (plus lack of social dungeons) means minimal social interaction required. Also, although it seems like a small thing, I have fond memories of EC tunnel just because it's where people hanged out to sell and provide buffs, but also interact, chat and meet up..Meridian 59 also had something like this, it was an Inn called La Familiars (think I spelt it correct), I don't know why but such places seem important to me, I wonder if anyone else feels the same? In games these days, it's non stop questing/grinding, tradeskilling or using auction house or equivalent, nobody ever hangs out anymore and simply interacts with each other..
Sorry about the large post, and I still have lots of other ideas and opinions why I think EQ was so great, but I mentioned just some of the most important in my view (raiding and pvp doesn't appeal to me personally).
I've played a LOT of mmorpgs in my time, but only EQ and M59 left me with such fond memories and I really miss that. But I'm still waiting, hoping ..I'll certainly be there if they go ahead with EQ3, but every mmorpg since EQ has been dissapointing, so..I have my doubts
Oh how i miss those EQ days, i wish we could rewind back to 99 just to relive those great times.
Things from EQ that made me love the game so much:
Place Holders, Nameds + Loot tables. Genius idea, as much as you hated seeing that dreaded place holder mob, it was still a great idea. All the different named mobs be it in a dungeon or out in open, some amazingly rare, some common, brilliant. Remember that guy people would camp for the Fishbone earing? Loot tables were great aswell, rare and common drops, made things exciting when it came to looting. Not forgetting when a named ie Ghoul Lord was wielding a Yak you could actually see him holding it, or the Frenzied Ghould with the FBSS was harder to kill because he had that haste. That is something a 9 year old MMO managed that these new mmo's have failed to do.
Mixing up zones. East commonlands for example had noobie mobs like fire beetles and snakes oh and griffons and hill giants......lol. Or what about Oasis, Spectre's to docks. This is what made things exciting, you always had to be on your toes, go AFK and you'll die. Not looking where your going, you will die. Or what about dungeons that had traps, like Befallen, fall down that damn well and you'd spend hours getting your corpse back.
Open dungeons. Having 50+ people in a dungeon is brilliant, competition for respawns, funny chat in /ooc or /shout. People trying to get into the best named camps and joining a "list". Who can forget "DING 47" shortly followed by a dozen "Grats" etc.
Trains. As much as you hated being trained it was funny. Remember Dvinn in Crushbone? Zoning into Crushbone and being dead before your screen loaded. Haha. Being able to kill steal aswell that was quality.
Raids. How funny was it when 3 guilds all turned up to kill 1 raid boss, a big race to get your guild ready first and start clearing to the boss.
Lore. How good was the lore in Eq, theres pages and pages of it online, some of the stories are a great read, like for example kerafyrm the Sleeper, and how good was that event when it took place? That dragon crossed zones to go and kill another dragon. Amazing stuff. And what about those legendary mobs that you all heard about, the sea monster in lake rathe or the Mistmoore bloke that was taken out in beta.
I've gone on loads here but i could keep going seriously. Some of the stuff has got me drooling for an EQ remake. Please someone do it for gods sake.
at the time of original EQ, forced grouping was an acceptable norm in MMOs - it no longer is (and thats good thing)
but the heavy reliance on grouping built an active and mostly helpful community character reps mattered much more and you couldnt reroll a alt within a week or 2 -- to escape a bad rep
the balance between grouping and soloing is a tough one, Original EQ was too extreme for grouping needs the current WOW is too extreme for soloing ease
theres a balance somewhere between there - and I'm confident a new game will find it
Actually, I think eq2 has created what I consider a perfect blend of solo and group play. If you havne't ever tried it out I really would recommend it for the old player of eq1 looking for something newer.
I should have read more before I posted my quoted reply above. This thread is great, full of wonderful memories.
My FIRST memory in EQ1 was probably one of my most memorable. Let me tell it:
I created my first MMO toon ever, It's name was Bane-something-or-other. He was a barbarian shaman. So I clicked to enter for the first time and find myself standing in the cold streets of Halas. I take about 9 steps forward and fall into a well and die.
I remember thinking "Danm this game is hard!" I didn't even know what a corpse run was at this point and figured it was something only a necro would do.
My next favorite memory:
Out adventuring I met another wild adventurer. We joined forces and killed together for a while. After some time we stopped to med (for about the 100th time) and he told me about a far away land called Crushbone, full of wonder, treasures, and tons of xp!
We set out for this distant land, neither of us knew how to get there. Along our way we met a number of other players who were helpful in pointing us along our way. This, of course, being before the Planes expansion, we actually had to run the whole way there.
We had travelled probably 2 hours by now and we were seemingly getting close. We approached some sort of forest that we knew we must navigate carefully. Not but several yards into the forest, some creature of ill saw us and slaughtered us. We stood not a chance.
How we made it that far without dying still amazes me to this day. I never did get that corpse back, But then again, I wasn't no necro any how!
And the Last best memory:
This one is simple. Sitting in Nec forest. Some totally uber Necro crossed my path. This guy was bad ass! he even floated in the air on an invisible cloud of uberness. He tossed me a few things called buffs, which made me appear much more uber than I was. He lead me to the noobie log and told me to fight around here till I found some friends.
He then left. But I still remember how cool that necro was cause he floated
Touching on what has already been said, but, I think EQ had three major things going for it, only two of which can be redone.
1. The 'newness' of the genre when it came out. Noone had a laundry list of what they liked/didn't like in games, what they would tolerate etc. There were no expectations. So, people just logged on and had fun. The newness also created a real 'wow' factor for folks - it was a new experience, so it grabbed us all. Unfortunately, even if they were to redo EverQuest (not EQ 2 but really just modernize the original), you cant get this back. Even if you are a new player, you are entering a jaded world. The community itself is older in this way so you are effected by it.
2. The world. No game since EQ has matched it in the quality of the world. Better graphics do not make a more immersive world, nor do automatic terrain generators and the like. With EQ, you felt every zone was made with care and imagination. Zoning into new places felt like you had entered somewhere really different. The vast openeness to explore, well laid out zones, it all contributed. And named mobs that actually dropped interesing loot. It all made me want to go out and explore.
3. Community. As others have said, your rep mattered, you relied on others. The game was also really good at creating social spaces, where people could and would congregate.
Touching on what has already been said, but, I think EQ had three major things going for it, only two of which can be redone. 1. The 'newness' of the genre when it came out. Noone had a laundry list of what they liked/didn't like in games, what they would tolerate etc. There were no expectations. So, people just logged on and had fun. The newness also created a real 'wow' factor for folks - it was a new experience, so it grabbed us all. Unfortunately, even if they were to redo EverQuest (not EQ 2 but really just modernize the original), you cant get this back. Even if you are a new player, you are entering a jaded world. The community itself is older in this way so you are effected by it. 2. The world. No game since EQ has matched it in the quality of the world. Better graphics do not make a more immersive world, nor do automatic terrain generators and the like. With EQ, you felt every zone was made with care and imagination. Zoning into new places felt like you had entered somewhere really different. The vast openeness to explore, well laid out zones, it all contributed. And named mobs that actually dropped interesing loot. It all made me want to go out and explore. 3. Community. As others have said, your rep mattered, you relied on others. The game was also really good at creating social spaces, where people could and would congregate.
Avyra, I agree completely. We can't replicate the exact same feelings we had in EQ. However, there are other ways to stimulate those same emotions. Mankind has been doing this for thousands of years. Back when they first picked up a stick to bash something with, they could say well it's already been done and that sense of wonder/discovery will never again be achieved. Oh, but it has, a thousand times over. We need to find the new way to instill this discovery. Perhaps it will be technology, or maybe mere storytelling/gameplay.
Hey to those guys up above who said "this is already long and I'll stop here," please don't do that. At the end of your posts, I was wanting to read more. Normally I don't like verbose posts, but not in that case.
I'm posting today because I thought natural disasters would be an interesting edition to a game world. Earthquakes, Volcano eruptions, Floods, etc.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Comments
Relating to recreating an atmosphere of danger/difficuIty/discovery, I think it would be interesting if at some level, near the upper tiers of the game, it started becoming incredibly difficult to level up and stay that level. Perhaps experience loss due to death could start going up exponentially, creating a situation where it was fairly rare to have character within 5 levels of the level cap, let alone actually at the level cap.
For example, if the level cap were 50, I think it might create a compelling community if there were only a few hundred characters between 45 and 49, and only 5-10 level 50's. The idea would be that the power and ability of the characters would be reflective of the rarity of getting to/maintaining such a level. A guild would be considered fortunate and powerful if they had a single level 50 character, and their specific strengths as a guild would be highly dependent on what class that level 50 character is.
I like to imagine abilities, such as opening a portal to another plane, that would require the cooperative casting of say, 2 level 50 wizards, and a 50 magician. If there were already 2 level 50 wizards on the server, and a level 49 magician, then the entire server would be watching closely as the level 49 magician got closer to 50, because it would potentially mean the opening of entirely new world content for everyone.
World setups such as this would provide an interesting atmosphere all around...much more entertaining than max level simply being an inevitability.
There will never be another, thank goodness! The game sucked endlessly and now there is competition and we don't have to put up with one crappy game because we can find one that is better than forced this and forced that. Mosted HATED that part of Everquest and quit because of it.
OMG man I love this idea. That is freaking incredible!!!! As long as everyone realizes that the "real" level cap is, say, 45, then they won't get as pissed when they find it near impossible to maintain 50. But, as they get 46, 47, etc., to 50, they get some real power.
I think if this is the case, the max level loss for a given day is one level. So, if they die ten times at a raid, they only go down to 49; and don't lose so many months of work.
I think this is an interesting alternative to the current MMOs where levels have only one place to go...up. Ok you're level 80 now with 1,000AA. But think for a minute how much more impressive it would be to be level 50 in a world where it is unattainable for most everyone.
ALTERNATIVE. Hey, let's blend in some Planetside mechanics. For example, in Planetside, difficult abilities are obtained by killing numerous enemies without dying yourself. So, rather than giving a super stiff death penalty, instead require them to "kill 20 mean mobs without dying" It's different in EQ because it is much easier to kill NPCs than PCs; so I'm not sure how to tune this. But you get the idea.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I hate you so much for getting the FBoW. I quit years ago, right after they started bringing out Fabled things, and I knew that the day would come that a FBoW would drop... and I also knew I wouldn't be playing still.
On the subject, I think their best attempt was the progression server, but that obviously didn't go too well, I quit that by Kunark. Maybe if they tried the progression server again, but took the time and effort to really bring back the original game, i.e. basic spells, no special drops, and the horribly-awesome grindfest. One or two guilds just need not to monopolize the higher level content and the situation will work itself out.
I played on Veeshan from June 1999 till 2002, guild upset some folks in foh and CT, so I moved with a friend to Firiona Vie. (the special ruleset server, where almost everything except epics was tradable/never boe, which suprisingly had a very mixed but reliable community..)
I left the game in 2005, then came back for 6 months in 2006. Disks for all 11 expansions are deep in storage boxes.
To me, unless they rebuild eq1 with a new engine, and update some other componets, eq1 is a pleasant memory, but one I wouldn't head back to. If eq3 is indeed around the corner ( with sony the corner seems to be a 3-5 year time frame) the gameplay from eq1, combined with new ideas, no eq2 stuff and maybe some real 'class balancing' they might just get a niche market that would support the game.
I played EQ the second year it was out and it still today is my favorite game.
The closest MMO ive played that has rivaled it was Final Fantasy XI
As it was built on community, forcing you to party and making solo play worthless after the early levels.
The Sheer difficulty of taking a character to max level taking 1-2 years where it would only begin the amount of content Endgame would hold.
There was no PvP besides 'Ballista' -A PvP game might you say- this further pushed the community to a positive state of helping eachother then Mindless PvP.
FFXI is one of few MMOs that Take Away xp and can De-level you which makes you actually think through a strategy and having that sense of fear.
Everything that would need to make the Next great MMO has been said, and i hope that SE's new MMO that has been in the works for years now but has little information on it, will be the next Everquest in MMO history.
EDIT: I just read more of these replys and the EQ community could sure make an Awesome MMO, you guys have the Mind Set of True Creative and wonderfull thinking. (We should all get together and learn to code an engine and create the next 'EverQuest'
http://www.eqemulator.net/main.php
White wolf, or something close to that, was the best of them. Then Sony threatened them with a million dollar law suite, and they dissapeared with the promise to build their own engine, and release it free. forge style. I am yet to see or hear from them again..
On a side note, cause I am sure someone will jump on me for posting a 'hackers site link' and it will probably get edited out.. What harm would it do to Sony to allow folks to play the classic 3 ( up to velious) for free? It would get them hooked, and THEN if folks want to move up, they pay for a transfer/upgrade.
Then again they might be like me and be happy to play there for ever.
Hey all,
Nice thread going thought id add my 2 cents.
I dont think there will ever be another EQ or anything like it. Kinda like your first time we all know with who, when and where. Everytime after never the same. There are good games out there, but you'll never get that same feeling agian. EQ IMO started the online game industry. The community back then was great. I played SOLID for 6 years. The large raids and the fustration of getting flags added IMO to the charm and difficulty of the game. As the player base grew so did the all the crying on how hard the game is/was. Then came the dumb down, enter WOW and all the clones. You can make a game easy, fast leveling, cookie cutter gear equals tons of accounts $$$$.
Finally, maybe 38 studios has something good brewing that will be close to EQ, and not like the mindless dribble thats out there. As stated i played everyday for 6 years. With the games out there I havent made it a full year before cancelation.
Take care
Viggen
This is 'just my opinion'™ which will probably differ greatly from many, so hopefully I don't get flamed too hard for it.
TLDR; Everyone is copying each other, money is the focus. No one's taking risks and forgot to ask themselves--is this game fun? through the different phases of development.
No, I don't think there will ever be a game like Everquest ever again, here's why:
Everquest was developed in a time where fierce competition wasn't the norm for MMO's. For many, it was a first, and developers could freely implement ideas without having the looming shadow of other rival companies threatening to take subscriptions. Ideas were original, and companies engaged in good old fashioned calculated risk taking.
Now the market is out of it's infancy. People recognize that there is a substantial amount of money in the genre and as such are fighting to get a piece of the pie. While I would never fault a business for their desires to flourish and be profitable, it seems that more and more games come out where they're all flash and no substance, all in the name of grabbing sub's from Mr. Average Joe. No one takes risks, no one keeps to their original 'vision'. It's all about investors, in their glorious tunnel vision, thinking another WoW imitator is going to become their golden goose egg.
There's more to it... Of course. Like the core fundamental of what a game should be: Fun. Just to cite an example, take Final Fantasy Tactics, versus Wild Arms XF. You'll hopefully have to look up the latter, and didn't get suckered into buying the game like myself. The first is a FUN, richly detailed, pleasing to the eye, story driven, highly customizable RPG. The latter is a richly detailed, pleasing to the eye, story driven, highly customizable RPG that insists you play their way else you will be digitally raped in new exciting ways before being treated to a very pretty game over screen.
*deep breath*
...But that's just my opinion.
Its all so spoonfed now with quest journals, waypoints, instant zone travels... whats the fun? Requiring a high level wizard to port you to somewhere was cool. Taking an hour and a half long dangerous trek with a horrible death penalty was cool. Having to actually boat across continents was awesome and dangerous as well, especially when a damn shark could eat your face on the boat due to bugs when you were low level.
I doubt an EQ game will come out ever again, its too standardized of an industry now. No one will try to break the mold that WoW has created, even if EQ and UO built the basis for that mold, and they were way more hardcore.
Here's hoping some EQ zealot wins the 300 million dollar lottery one of these days.
actually i think the market is going to head into a remake phase soon because they are going to realise the originals are much better games then rewashes and i feel they will take the originals and update them graphics wise and take the story arc in different directions .
like maybe instead of expansions expanding game and fracturing playerbase they will add story arcs and mini locations off of original continents eq got too big and spread out.
Some lead and some follow I prefer to stand beside!
EQ will be around for another 6 years easy. Because the player base is small, but deticated.
WoW will probly last another 2. BEcause all i here are players getting bored with the game and looking for a new MMO they can conqour in 2 weeks.
15 years to 6 years... hmm.... what game would you want to make in the 'Long Run".
But investors wont see that until WoW dies and EQ is still up and running with 200,000 people. Then maybe they will go back to the Hardcore ways of MMOs.
But until then, we can wait for an EQ fanatic to win the lottery and make there own MMO like that other guy said
I need to print out this thread, because the ideas herein are awesome and I want to save them. In the meantime, perhaps a shameless bump?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Cool topic!
I have to disagree with some that think the feeling and memories you had from EQ when it was young can't be experienced again in a new game. Sure, a lot is because it was new and fresh, but I played Meridian 59, and UO for several years before EQ arrived, I still have lots of good memories from Meridian 59 and EQ, but hardly any from UO even though I enjoyed that too.
I want to mention a couple of points,in my opinion, why both Meridian 59 and EQ left such a big impression and long lasting memories.
1) Enviroment
Although the graphics probably look horrible today, at the time EQ was released it looked awesome, it felt awesome (and alive), but this still isn't the key, because we all know pretty graphics become fairly transparent and unimportant very shortly into the game. But what EQ had (and sadly lacking in todays mmorpgs), is that every single zone had it's own unique 'character' and surprises, no matter how large or small. I remember a little of my first time in West Karanas, god this zone was huge and although seemed fairly sparse, there were a lot of surprises here and so much fun to explore, the small undead camps, those freaky halloween pumpkin guy things on the farms (forget what they were called?), the nasty bandits hiding in the hills and that rare werewolf that I was attacked by once, as a noob and scared the living s**t out of me. There are other zones I could talk about that I have very fond memories of (Oasis of Marr for instance), but I just wanted to mention this..I think the enviroment in EQ was one of the most important reasons why it sticks in our memories.
2) Social Dungeons
My first experience in Blackburrow was a harsh one. Endlessly trying to progress down, only to be chased back up and out of the zone again by massive trains of Gnolls, yelping and splatting people with no mercy. My only hope - to find a group to survive this craziness! and what awesome fun that turned out to be..even though we still died a hell of a lot
Splitpaw, SolB, Lguk, KC, Velk's..These were fairly tough (when they were new) dungeons, and so much fun, plus it was often in these places I would make a lot of friends. The dungeons in mmorpgs post-EQ suck in comparison and with all the instancing now, it seems we might never see a return to real social dungeons like these. EQ dungeons were something to be feared, they were a real challenge, I always felt a strong sense of accomplishment after a long and succesful dungeon grind.
3) Death Penalty and Game Difficulty
I agree with some of the other posters, games these days are WAY too easy, it lessens the feeling of accomplishment and concern for our characters, as a result the overall immersion and reward for playing the game becomes much less. On the other hand, I do think EQ was a little too harsh at launch, and I don't think remaking EQ this way would be wise or necessary..It wouldn't be difficult to find a good balance. But a steep levelling curve is a MUST imho. Actually, I much prefer skill based levelling myself, like Meridian 59 and UO had. EQ was a mixture of both, but levels were the most important. Although it's a bit off topic (or maybe not), I think one of the best things about Meridian 59 was the levelling/skill/spell system and it's a pity this system isn't used today, as it would appeal to both casual and hardcore players.
I'm also not a big fan of forced grouping, and it was always something that pissed me off about EQ, again it's very easy to find a balance here..WoW went too far the other way. There just need to be really good incentives for grouping, increased exp, and really fun social dungeons that can't really be solo'd effectively.
4) Instancing
If the rumours about EQ3 are true, I will assume they will use instancing like all mmorpgs seem to do these days. Personally, I hate instancing for many reasons, but used in the right way they can be a great thing. Think EQ as it used to be, but each dungeon could have mutliple instances each with a population cap of several groups (or whatever cap appropriate for the dungeon size) and you can eliminate a lot of harrasment and grief that used to be a problem in the past. It would also make finding a group much easier by instance hopping, instead of sat around doing nothing..which surely nobody liked!
5) Community and Social Interaction
Obviously the community is incredibly important, EQ seemed to me to have a very good and mature community, not many mmorpgs can boast that and you almost just could not HELP making friends. I play AoC now and the community seems very mature there too, maybe because of the rating, but the problem there is heavy instancing and ease of soloing (plus lack of social dungeons) means minimal social interaction required. Also, although it seems like a small thing, I have fond memories of EC tunnel just because it's where people hanged out to sell and provide buffs, but also interact, chat and meet up..Meridian 59 also had something like this, it was an Inn called La Familiars (think I spelt it correct), I don't know why but such places seem important to me, I wonder if anyone else feels the same? In games these days, it's non stop questing/grinding, tradeskilling or using auction house or equivalent, nobody ever hangs out anymore and simply interacts with each other..
Sorry about the large post, and I still have lots of other ideas and opinions why I think EQ was so great, but I mentioned just some of the most important in my view (raiding and pvp doesn't appeal to me personally).
I've played a LOT of mmorpgs in my time, but only EQ and M59 left me with such fond memories and I really miss that. But I'm still waiting, hoping ..I'll certainly be there if they go ahead with EQ3, but every mmorpg since EQ has been dissapointing, so..I have my doubts
Oh how i miss those EQ days, i wish we could rewind back to 99 just to relive those great times.
Things from EQ that made me love the game so much:
Place Holders, Nameds + Loot tables. Genius idea, as much as you hated seeing that dreaded place holder mob, it was still a great idea. All the different named mobs be it in a dungeon or out in open, some amazingly rare, some common, brilliant. Remember that guy people would camp for the Fishbone earing? Loot tables were great aswell, rare and common drops, made things exciting when it came to looting. Not forgetting when a named ie Ghoul Lord was wielding a Yak you could actually see him holding it, or the Frenzied Ghould with the FBSS was harder to kill because he had that haste. That is something a 9 year old MMO managed that these new mmo's have failed to do.
Mixing up zones. East commonlands for example had noobie mobs like fire beetles and snakes oh and griffons and hill giants......lol. Or what about Oasis, Spectre's to docks. This is what made things exciting, you always had to be on your toes, go AFK and you'll die. Not looking where your going, you will die. Or what about dungeons that had traps, like Befallen, fall down that damn well and you'd spend hours getting your corpse back.
Open dungeons. Having 50+ people in a dungeon is brilliant, competition for respawns, funny chat in /ooc or /shout. People trying to get into the best named camps and joining a "list". Who can forget "DING 47" shortly followed by a dozen "Grats" etc.
Trains. As much as you hated being trained it was funny. Remember Dvinn in Crushbone? Zoning into Crushbone and being dead before your screen loaded. Haha. Being able to kill steal aswell that was quality.
Raids. How funny was it when 3 guilds all turned up to kill 1 raid boss, a big race to get your guild ready first and start clearing to the boss.
Lore. How good was the lore in Eq, theres pages and pages of it online, some of the stories are a great read, like for example kerafyrm the Sleeper, and how good was that event when it took place? That dragon crossed zones to go and kill another dragon. Amazing stuff. And what about those legendary mobs that you all heard about, the sea monster in lake rathe or the Mistmoore bloke that was taken out in beta.
I've gone on loads here but i could keep going seriously. Some of the stuff has got me drooling for an EQ remake. Please someone do it for gods sake.
WTS FBSS.
Damn this is a great thread. I really hope someone is listening to all of us, and will eventually design a game that fits our cohort.
Actually, I think eq2 has created what I consider a perfect blend of solo and group play. If you havne't ever tried it out I really would recommend it for the old player of eq1 looking for something newer.
I should have read more before I posted my quoted reply above. This thread is great, full of wonderful memories.
My FIRST memory in EQ1 was probably one of my most memorable. Let me tell it:
I created my first MMO toon ever, It's name was Bane-something-or-other. He was a barbarian shaman. So I clicked to enter for the first time and find myself standing in the cold streets of Halas. I take about 9 steps forward and fall into a well and die.
I remember thinking "Danm this game is hard!" I didn't even know what a corpse run was at this point and figured it was something only a necro would do.
My next favorite memory:
Out adventuring I met another wild adventurer. We joined forces and killed together for a while. After some time we stopped to med (for about the 100th time) and he told me about a far away land called Crushbone, full of wonder, treasures, and tons of xp!
We set out for this distant land, neither of us knew how to get there. Along our way we met a number of other players who were helpful in pointing us along our way. This, of course, being before the Planes expansion, we actually had to run the whole way there.
We had travelled probably 2 hours by now and we were seemingly getting close. We approached some sort of forest that we knew we must navigate carefully. Not but several yards into the forest, some creature of ill saw us and slaughtered us. We stood not a chance.
How we made it that far without dying still amazes me to this day. I never did get that corpse back, But then again, I wasn't no necro any how!
And the Last best memory:
This one is simple. Sitting in Nec forest. Some totally uber Necro crossed my path. This guy was bad ass! he even floated in the air on an invisible cloud of uberness. He tossed me a few things called buffs, which made me appear much more uber than I was. He lead me to the noobie log and told me to fight around here till I found some friends.
He then left. But I still remember how cool that necro was cause he floated
Touching on what has already been said, but, I think EQ had three major things going for it, only two of which can be redone.
1. The 'newness' of the genre when it came out. Noone had a laundry list of what they liked/didn't like in games, what they would tolerate etc. There were no expectations. So, people just logged on and had fun. The newness also created a real 'wow' factor for folks - it was a new experience, so it grabbed us all. Unfortunately, even if they were to redo EverQuest (not EQ 2 but really just modernize the original), you cant get this back. Even if you are a new player, you are entering a jaded world. The community itself is older in this way so you are effected by it.
2. The world. No game since EQ has matched it in the quality of the world. Better graphics do not make a more immersive world, nor do automatic terrain generators and the like. With EQ, you felt every zone was made with care and imagination. Zoning into new places felt like you had entered somewhere really different. The vast openeness to explore, well laid out zones, it all contributed. And named mobs that actually dropped interesing loot. It all made me want to go out and explore.
3. Community. As others have said, your rep mattered, you relied on others. The game was also really good at creating social spaces, where people could and would congregate.
Excellent post, you are spot on.
Avyra, I agree completely. We can't replicate the exact same feelings we had in EQ. However, there are other ways to stimulate those same emotions. Mankind has been doing this for thousands of years. Back when they first picked up a stick to bash something with, they could say well it's already been done and that sense of wonder/discovery will never again be achieved. Oh, but it has, a thousand times over. We need to find the new way to instill this discovery. Perhaps it will be technology, or maybe mere storytelling/gameplay.
Hey to those guys up above who said "this is already long and I'll stop here," please don't do that. At the end of your posts, I was wanting to read more. Normally I don't like verbose posts, but not in that case.
I'm posting today because I thought natural disasters would be an interesting edition to a game world. Earthquakes, Volcano eruptions, Floods, etc.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit