ok, i miss read what you said, i thought you were listing games to prove there still is innovation. I don't really see innovation as being very important. for action oriented games like platform and sports games it is important to come up with new things. shooters are always enjoyable as long as it looks nice and bloody and have new settings and environments to experience. I strongly believe that what makes a game good is its story and how it's told. i don't think anyone could argue with me if they liked RPGs and i said, you could keep the exact same setup for combat and menus and how you attain skills/spells/gear as long as each game had a different interesting story. but like i said, i think RPGs are going downhill... the next final fantasy almost sounds like a complete action RPG like zelda... which obviously doesn't completely insult it, but it's not what the fans liked about final fantasy or old school rpgs in general. who ever said that innovation comes down to adding a single improvement to a game now days is correct. It's all that happens now days. EA Sports epitimizes that with the Madden series, they make a game every year and as many times as they've made football games... they're slowly improving it. some things really don't need to be changed, i played the new Haze game and i really could do without having to hold a button and releasing so i get "high" in game and can easily fight and get all these crazy abilities and when i'm not "high" it's a lot harder to play.
Since this is MMORPG.com, as far as MMO's go... i really believe they do need some innovation. why was star wars galaxies able to have everything possible that people wanted in an MMO and yet no one else does? why does Warhammer online look worse graphically than WoW? i think it's some kind of gold rush right now and everyones rushing out MMOs and eventually maybe it'll slow down. I didn't play galaxies, but i know what it had in it, and i don't think any other MMO really provided all the content it did other than maybe UO. you shouldn't have to play multiple MMO's to get the content you wanted, but it seems right now PVP is all the rage and it's all the general masses care about.
Youd have to think that we're going to see some big innovations wth MMOs in the next few years. Combat, for one, has been long over due for a change from the boring, clunky, auto-attack click fest. And, if you look at the MMOs in development, many of them are either going FPS or at least at trying something different.
In general, there has been way too much of the same crap the last few years. So, I have to think that there will be more MMOs here and there that follow the path of EVE and try to break the usual theme park mold.
A lot of the problems with games now days is that the developers don't want to take a chance with something new.
Like how everyone says such and such is a WoW clone. It's like that because Devs don't want to risk anything.
"Well, it works for WoW, so we'll use that to!"
It's like that everywhere, that's why so many games give, at least give me that sense of "Didn't I do this already?" feeling the first time I play a game.
Mass Effect, awesome awesome game. However it's an updated version of another game that came out on Xbox and PC about 4 years back. I can't remember the name of the game but my daughter reminded me of it while I was playing.(Hey, didn't we own this game a few years back, where your race was being destroyed by aliens and you developed psychic powers and if you chose your brother than the main boss at the end looked like your girlfriend?) Sure you can pick different classes and control more aspects of the game, but the story line is a knock off of the previous one, and the "feel" of the game is a copy. At least how I feel.
I'll edit if /when I can remember the name of the game.
Today's mmo innovation has come to a stand still because of one reason, and it's name is World of Warcraft. New ideas and innovation takes a back seat to the almighty dollar. Today's gaming companies are just not willing to take the risk of making an mmo that strays to far off what WOW does. They see big money and want a piece of that pie. These developers are in a buisness to make a profit and will use a tried and true method to to so.
Let's take AOC for example. If FC would have made the game world exactly like WOW's game world, you would pretty much be playing the same game with better graphics. Even though the combat systems are slightly differant, the game in whole isn't. The same can be said for most of the games that have or will be coming out in the very near future.
The mmo community is actually split in two. You have the players that want to be led down a linear quest based path that the end result will give you a next lvl and better gear. The other is the type of player that want to actually become part of the game world and actually have influence over it. Doesn't want any quests and has the abitly to create their own niche in whatever way.
I tend to think that the second type of player, and the mmo they are looking for will become much more popular in the months to come. I see a trend starting with mmo's like Earthrise, APB, Darkfall, and more. People want insane character customization, and a world to explore in.
I remember endless space invaders and pacman clones,endless side scrolling shooters,endless side scrolling beat em ups,platformers,racing games...are you trying to say that there was loads of innovation back then?because there really wasnt. occasionally something like streetfighter 2,doom or diablo would come along and shake up a genre,or a game such as tomb raider would change the way a genre works,but theres nothing to say future games wont do the same.in fact i can think up a few titles from the last few years that are radically different from pretty much anything out there.
But they did have game play. Sure some of the game were horrible, but look at the fun games they made with such limited graphics.
I remember endless space invaders and pacman clones,endless side scrolling shooters,endless side scrolling beat em ups,platformers,racing games...are you trying to say that there was loads of innovation back then?because there really wasnt.
You just named 3 "types" of games that really no longer exist, Side Scroller Shooters, Side Scrolling Fighters and Platformers. There are a couple others that are nearly extinct as well in my opinion, the adventure game and puzzle game. There's still a few out there, but they tend to get very little notice. They have not been replaced with a new type of game in my opinion, they have just been dropped. Look at the games we have today, they pretty much all fall into 1 of about 5 categories, FPS, RTS, RPG, SPORTS, SIM. Beyond that there is very little. Back say 10 years ago we had all these categories plus the others that have since been nearly abandoned. There was more variety and more innovation in my opinion then. Half the games I see today are nearly clones of other games on the market.
And don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say, some people have tried to make this about whether or not innovation is needed in a game, I never said anything about whether or not it's needed, that's a different discussion. I'm simply stating that it seems that games have all become very similar and innovation is not focused on and I think a part of the reason for that is because games have gotten so costly to develop. Developers are really afraid to take big risks because if it doesn't work, they stand to lose a lot of money. It's safer to stick with the tried and true. On top of that if you deviate from the norm, it's tough to market your game. A lot of marketing firms don't seem to really want to look at something different and who can blame them when they keep cranking out Madden games that sell like hot cakes. How many sequals do we see today? CoD, Warcraft, Madden, GTA and so on. These are all huge sellers. Nothing wrong with that really, I'm just seeing a trend and commenting on it.
Comments
ok, i miss read what you said, i thought you were listing games to prove there still is innovation. I don't really see innovation as being very important. for action oriented games like platform and sports games it is important to come up with new things. shooters are always enjoyable as long as it looks nice and bloody and have new settings and environments to experience. I strongly believe that what makes a game good is its story and how it's told. i don't think anyone could argue with me if they liked RPGs and i said, you could keep the exact same setup for combat and menus and how you attain skills/spells/gear as long as each game had a different interesting story. but like i said, i think RPGs are going downhill... the next final fantasy almost sounds like a complete action RPG like zelda... which obviously doesn't completely insult it, but it's not what the fans liked about final fantasy or old school rpgs in general. who ever said that innovation comes down to adding a single improvement to a game now days is correct. It's all that happens now days. EA Sports epitimizes that with the Madden series, they make a game every year and as many times as they've made football games... they're slowly improving it. some things really don't need to be changed, i played the new Haze game and i really could do without having to hold a button and releasing so i get "high" in game and can easily fight and get all these crazy abilities and when i'm not "high" it's a lot harder to play.
Since this is MMORPG.com, as far as MMO's go... i really believe they do need some innovation. why was star wars galaxies able to have everything possible that people wanted in an MMO and yet no one else does? why does Warhammer online look worse graphically than WoW? i think it's some kind of gold rush right now and everyones rushing out MMOs and eventually maybe it'll slow down. I didn't play galaxies, but i know what it had in it, and i don't think any other MMO really provided all the content it did other than maybe UO. you shouldn't have to play multiple MMO's to get the content you wanted, but it seems right now PVP is all the rage and it's all the general masses care about.
Youd have to think that we're going to see some big innovations wth MMOs in the next few years. Combat, for one, has been long over due for a change from the boring, clunky, auto-attack click fest. And, if you look at the MMOs in development, many of them are either going FPS or at least at trying something different.
In general, there has been way too much of the same crap the last few years. So, I have to think that there will be more MMOs here and there that follow the path of EVE and try to break the usual theme park mold.
A lot of the problems with games now days is that the developers don't want to take a chance with something new.
Like how everyone says such and such is a WoW clone. It's like that because Devs don't want to risk anything.
"Well, it works for WoW, so we'll use that to!"
It's like that everywhere, that's why so many games give, at least give me that sense of "Didn't I do this already?" feeling the first time I play a game.
Mass Effect, awesome awesome game. However it's an updated version of another game that came out on Xbox and PC about 4 years back. I can't remember the name of the game but my daughter reminded me of it while I was playing.(Hey, didn't we own this game a few years back, where your race was being destroyed by aliens and you developed psychic powers and if you chose your brother than the main boss at the end looked like your girlfriend?) Sure you can pick different classes and control more aspects of the game, but the story line is a knock off of the previous one, and the "feel" of the game is a copy. At least how I feel.
I'll edit if /when I can remember the name of the game.
Fear is why there is no "new" in games now days.
Want a taste of religion? Lick a witch.
Today's mmo innovation has come to a stand still because of one reason, and it's name is World of Warcraft. New ideas and innovation takes a back seat to the almighty dollar. Today's gaming companies are just not willing to take the risk of making an mmo that strays to far off what WOW does. They see big money and want a piece of that pie. These developers are in a buisness to make a profit and will use a tried and true method to to so.
Let's take AOC for example. If FC would have made the game world exactly like WOW's game world, you would pretty much be playing the same game with better graphics. Even though the combat systems are slightly differant, the game in whole isn't. The same can be said for most of the games that have or will be coming out in the very near future.
The mmo community is actually split in two. You have the players that want to be led down a linear quest based path that the end result will give you a next lvl and better gear. The other is the type of player that want to actually become part of the game world and actually have influence over it. Doesn't want any quests and has the abitly to create their own niche in whatever way.
I tend to think that the second type of player, and the mmo they are looking for will become much more popular in the months to come. I see a trend starting with mmo's like Earthrise, APB, Darkfall, and more. People want insane character customization, and a world to explore in.
Innovation is neither NECESAARY nor SUFFICIENT for success.
It can increase your success by a large margin and that causes people to mis-identify the above relationship.
It is just that simple really.
But they did have game play. Sure some of the game were horrible, but look at the fun games they made with such limited graphics.
And don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say, some people have tried to make this about whether or not innovation is needed in a game, I never said anything about whether or not it's needed, that's a different discussion. I'm simply stating that it seems that games have all become very similar and innovation is not focused on and I think a part of the reason for that is because games have gotten so costly to develop. Developers are really afraid to take big risks because if it doesn't work, they stand to lose a lot of money. It's safer to stick with the tried and true. On top of that if you deviate from the norm, it's tough to market your game. A lot of marketing firms don't seem to really want to look at something different and who can blame them when they keep cranking out Madden games that sell like hot cakes. How many sequals do we see today? CoD, Warcraft, Madden, GTA and so on. These are all huge sellers. Nothing wrong with that really, I'm just seeing a trend and commenting on it.