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MMOs are Heading in the Wrong Direction - AoC is Stuck in the Undertow
WiccanCircle
Member Posts: 336
I am stoned; (Legally, mind you. Hydrocodone 7.5-750's because I had wisdom teeth ripped from my bones) thanks to chemical intervention, I feel like writing some incoherent thoughts about Conan and the direction of the MMO genre. This will be rambling.
Regardless what any of the little boys that are Ego-Linked to EQ/WoW (same game different year) might come to forum and bemoan, Age Of Conan is a good game. Solid Launch. Gorgeous Scenery. Great Music and Sound Effects (once you experience this level of sound you will not easily go back to the bloop-bloop sounds of Wow, et al)
All games are launched and then grow. WoW was fairly empty at launch and, in many game-concept ways, it still is quite hollow and empty to this very day. It has taken a half decade and likely many billions of dollars to build WoW to where it is today, and that is sad, because wow is still lacking much of what AoC has in its first few days of launch. But that is what new products do, they take good ideas from the past and bring them in to a new game-zygote that grows in to a new entertainment critter.
This game is not perfect, because perfection doesn't exist and never can. But it is a solid solid solid platform for a very long lived and very interesting game. Many ego-linked little boys have said this is beta... so? This kind of mentality is fostered in nintendo and it misses the point of why computer games are better, way better, than TV-toys... growth. Since when is a finished product with no changes, no growth, no direction something that I am looking for in my MMO? There will be expansion boxes and new continents and new classes and new everything being added to this game for many years to come. As far as games go, this is really an excellent product.
Here is the rub - the conflict as the world of TV-toys and computer-toys collide. Wandering through Toys R Us you can see that toys are a huge market and that about half the store is now devoted to video-toys. Toy-consoles that you can plug in to the TV are the vast majority of the market, leaving a tiny segment for these computer games. Most humans desire structure and consistancy, they fear change and can only handle tiny nudges away from their comfort zone before they react violently and run back to their place of safet and security, snarling and decrying that the new and different is evil. They spit at changes while clutching at the old, outdated but well worn and comfortable ideas and items of the past. Most people don't think, they feel. Feelings are not facts, but for most of the population that is the extent of their mental ability.
Where that brings us in the evolution of toys...
Older games bleed like watercolors across to the next generation of games. It is a fundimental of entertainment - be new, but only in a well known, rehashed, used, old-style way. UO and AC were the games that were really first generation. They were sandboxes. There was openness and options and freedom that caused people to change direction many months and years in to the game. There were choices to be made that directly impacted your abilities. Kids revolted. Children that were afraid wanted hand-holding. They cried rivers of tears because there were choices that forced them to make decisions. If you have never played UO or AC you simply have never played a non-EQ MMORPG and you simply don't know anything else. Your ignorance and fear is why we are in the situation we find ourselves today.
Kids on consoles couldn't handle the openness. They wanted to move on a scrolling world from left to right, sequentially going from one item to the next; no deviation, no options, no thought required. In to this void came EverQuest. EQ did simple linear quests in bite sized pieces, run from one punctuation mark to the next and get XP, don't think, no choices, no decisions. Each character class had a specific role and skill, it didn't allow for variation, no thought, no skill, no options.
But most of all EQ incorporated 'boss' monsters concepts taken from the TV-toy consoles. Voila, the advent of identical battles, each player doing their own unique and one-trick-pony power, each battle spaced out at distances to allow wash-rise-repeat. No thought, no options, no variables. This is where we are today in our toy-MMOs, the EQ-console-Mario Brother's nintendo style games.
Now, add to that, massive numbers of intellegent, but under achieving, anonymous, angst-filled, social outcast, mother's basement dwelling, wrestling watching, dateless boys and you have the natural evolution to conflict. The Answer - PvP.
Here is where MMOs fall apart, PvP.
Look around the world, there is no balance and that is a good thing. There can never be balance. Nothing in nature is balanced and the quest for balance is death. Potential, gradients, hierarchies, differences are the energy that drives the universe. A basic definition of what your 'life' is would be your gradient and potential from that of the area around you. You want balance? Death. Gradients in all ways are good for the human being. Energy, interests, wealth, all very different and all very good for everyone.
You see that person that put in more effort in to their education and career? Yep, that one, she is more wealthy than you and that is a good thing. She wanted it more than you. You didn't earn it, you didn't put in the time, you didn't do the quality investment that, in a free market, now rewards her effort. That is a good thing. we need her to put in the effort and we need her to buy expensive new technology and products so that the initial investment can be covered until the cost of production comes down to where the average MMO player can buy it on their mother's credit card.
Anyhow, balance is socialism. Socialism is death. PvP causes this absurd quest for socialistic balance.
Differences are good. But any difference is not balance. Ultimate balance is found in the old Atari and nintendo games... and that is what many of the kids are demanding, without moving past Stage-One thinking, that they want balance. This bullsheet quest for balance is why we have limited healing to a few classes and a few powers. Balance is why we have one-trick-pony characters, because to add any more depth would cause exponetial variables to balance issues. Balance is why we have 'archers' that can't shoot a bow from outside melee range.
PvP belongs in different games from large scale MMOs. I play a little PvP, I am terrible at it and it doesn't give me the rush that it seems to give my boyfriend, but I can easily see why PK gamers want large games to include this for them. OK, I get that part, but perhaps it should be done in PvP-centered games and kept away from PvE games. Balance issues in Player Killing destroys PvE games.
Anyway... I have blathered on long enough and I think i will go lay out in the sun for a few.
Have fun, 
Christine
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Comments
wow...when you get stoned you write a lot?
I just sit there, stare, and smile a bit
.
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
You have a great command of language, unfortunately not so of the facts!
WoW had much more content at launch.
edit:
You see the issue is that there is so much in your post that is plain wrong. Wow as I said was a very varied game with even better crafting and even better gameplay. The world is big and seemless and there is so much to explore in the beginning weeks of playing. Plus levelling was slower.
Your argument "socialism is death" doesn't explain anything. No argumentation about it. No clarification how you can derive this point.
Also your look at pvp'ers as angstfilled teenagers is crap. PvP is about competition and challenges. Killing X number of mobs is not a challenge. It is boring. When you meet players who dont (usually ;-)) suffer from bad AI, then they meet you in a different way.
Also you mention AoC but excuse all the shortcomings of the game and the company behind it, without taking into account how much they FAILED at making the game new and refreshing.
In DaoC one could REALLY fight over keeps and it would have been easy to implement incentives for real pvp. AoC was released with zero pvp incentive, filled with bugs becuase they didnt allow testers access to it before release, the game is stale with zones of player cities in instances no one ever need or want to visit... there is no showing off your city to other players and there is no random fights happening there, no integration with the game world.
Also Funcom completely fails with communication; deletes petitions ad libitum and generally do not address players' concerns.
So when you come here and post this incoherent nonsense, I can only say... yes the drug shows. But get the facts straight! Please!
Happy day :-)
Draccan
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
Maybe if I had some vicodin I could come up with a rambling refutation. But I don't. I have a tuna sandwhich and some garden salsa style Sun Chips. The combo is divine, but not quite up to Hydrocodone level.
Oh, and maybe write down when you took your last pill. Sometimes people get goofy in the brain after they take stuff and then forget and take another one.
I go for the munchies. This guy is a LOT more productive
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
If you're one of those people that believes WoW is or ever was a good game.. I really feel sorry for you. The only thing that you could ever do in WoW was and is to grind for the next best piece of gear. That's it. At least AoC isn't a complete grindfest. And I'm saying that before they even add the PvP content. What was crafting about?, grinding to the next piece of gear to wear. What was PvP about?, yes, grinding to the next piece of gear. A game that didn't even have weather until over a year after release, something every other game has implemented at launch day, why? because it didn't add to the grind that is WoW. To be successful, you have to make it your job. Why do people kill each other in WoW? I bet you can't name a reason, you can't form a hatred for a player... you only kill other players because they are on the opposite faction.. and because they are attackable. There's a huge difference in AoC. Alliance or Horde come into your main city and kill your faction hero. What happens? Nothing. Does anyone retaliate? Rarely. Why? They will say it's because they could rather be grinding reputation.. which does what? Ding Ding Ding!! GRIND FOR GEAR.
Saying that people are afraid of no balance is pretty accurate. How many casuals do we have who have effectively destroyed the gaming industry for PvP'ers? Everything has to be handed to everyone on a silver platter. A person who plays 10 hours a week should be able to have the same things that someone who played 50 hours a week has worked for. That's BS. That was the OP's point there. Apparently you didn't understand, she's high.. what's your excuse? Just because you don't think something is new and/or refreshing, doesn't mean you're right, nor does it mean that no else else believes that as well. So often, I see people like you with huge ego's.. believe your opinion is fact. Sorry to rain on your parade.. have you ever heard that the world doesn't revolve around you?
I don't think Funcom has handled things very well with their communication efforts.. or lack thereof. however, they have added many patches already. Fixed many issues. And because of their actions, I have reason to believe that everything will be fixed and implemented in time. All I can really say here is that if you don't like AoC, then go back to any of those games that you're touting to have been great. They are still accepting subscriptions. I wish AoC was seamless.. I wish there wasn't a need for cloned instancing. I wish PvP sieges weren't capped. But that is just the way of things right now. You can see the natural evolution of gaming technology here. They are taking baby steps... maybe 5-10 years from now, we'll all be running around in a huge seamless world, with no loading times, graphics like Crysis, chopping and hacking each other into little bits all in the name of glory. but, that time isn't now.
Bitching isn't going to help.
hehe its great to see what drugs can bring out in people
Only MMO noobs, like 9/10 people posting on the AoC forums are the haters, because they do not understand what goes into a MMO, and what we should all expect as MMO customers.
It boils down to my point that I have stated a few times.
What kinda MMO are you expecting?
A. 100% "bug free" (<---no game is) but released with repetitive and simple content, that doesnt try to do anything out of the ordinary.
B. Tons of bugs, lag ect. ect. because the game released with literally 5x more then A. (with new concepts and ideas going along with LAUNCH)
EDIT: thank god PVP sieges are capped, this prevents a zerg fest and also massive lag....Shadowbane had 2 problems with sieges...and they are (of course) zergs of 100+ vs. 30 and also massive lag.
I play all ghame
You left out in your opinion about 5 times in this post, lol . And IMHO your opinion sucks P.
ugh I feel bad for Draccan, no ones ever gunna take em seriously now
I play all ghame
I agree that launching a game that is bug free or even having a game that is bug free is msytical, magical thinking. These are computer games, tons of different code, tons of different systems, tons of ways for things to go wrong. I can deal with a few broken things here and there... perfection isn't even a consideration and the human mind has VERY selective memory. If people love the game or hate the game they will remember VERY different experiences playing the exact same session.
Things are being fixed all the time in MMOs, like you, meh, I am not worried about that much.
I am not sure why I have heard a few people say that AoC didn't have a great launch? Strange, it has to be one of the most flawless launches in MMO history, so I am not sure where people are going with this comment. It worked as well as any game I have played, no borken anything for days and days. I am not sure I have played a game, even ones that have been out years that ran so smoothly. This one confuses me.
Now on to the meat of the issue... Wow still doesn't have good things about MMOs, even this very day it is lacking. MMOs are being damaged by exactly what wow will never have - freedom and choices. Tanks class? Damage Dealer class? Control class? Healer class? These things shouldn't even exist in MMO. If anyone ever heard them refered to, we should be saying "Oh yeah, I remember way back in the old days when the simple MMOs used to have those rediculous ideas"
The EQ-clone games, wow included are so simplistic because of this phobia that toy companies have about freedom. This is brought about because of the Pvp balance fiasco, the fear of battlemages and the rediculous idea that every character should perform a specific roll... talk about "off to the rice patties with you" I don't want top down control over my skills, my powers, where I want to hunt, what my NEXT piece of gear should be. Bring back Asheron's Call !!! Bring back freedom in MMOs.
Balance? Stop even talking about it. Character clasess? Don't you dare structure my games around them. PvP, keep it as the fringe 10% part of the game that is ACTUALLY is and give it that much power over the rest of the 90% of the game that has nothing to do with it.
AoC I am afraid is afraid. It is going to 'play it safe' and hug the EQ/wow-clone envelope with a death grip. AoC is a beautiful world... it is brand new and could head in any direction. I fear it will head toward Norrath and social control that limits games and limits fun.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
If you're one of those people that believes WoW is or ever was a good game.. I really feel sorry for you. The only thing that you could ever do in WoW was and is to grind for the next best piece of gear. That's it. At least AoC isn't a complete grindfest. And I'm saying that before they even add the PvP content. What was crafting about?, grinding to the next piece of gear to wear. What was PvP about?, yes, grinding to the next piece of gear. A game that didn't even have weather until over a year after release, something every other game has implemented at launch day, why? because it didn't add to the grind that is WoW. To be successful, you have to make it your job. Why do people kill each other in WoW? I bet you can't name a reason, you can't form a hatred for a player... you only kill other players because they are on the opposite faction.. and because they are attackable. There's a huge difference in AoC. Alliance or Horde come into your main city and kill your faction hero. What happens? Nothing. Does anyone retaliate? Rarely. Why? They will say it's because they could rather be grinding reputation.. which does what? Ding Ding Ding!! GRIND FOR GEAR.
Saying that people are afraid of no balance is pretty accurate. How many casuals do we have who have effectively destroyed the gaming industry for PvP'ers? Everything has to be handed to everyone on a silver platter. A person who plays 10 hours a week should be able to have the same things that someone who played 50 hours a week has worked for. That's BS. That was the OP's point there. Apparently you didn't understand, she's high.. what's your excuse? Just because you don't think something is new and/or refreshing, doesn't mean you're right, nor does it mean that no else else believes that as well. So often, I see people like you with huge ego's.. believe your opinion is fact. Sorry to rain on your parade.. have you ever heard that the world doesn't revolve around you?
I don't think Funcom has handled things very well with their communication efforts.. or lack thereof. however, they have added many patches already. Fixed many issues. And because of their actions, I have reason to believe that everything will be fixed and implemented in time. All I can really say here is that if you don't like AoC, then go back to any of those games that you're touting to have been great. They are still accepting subscriptions. I wish AoC was seamless.. I wish there wasn't a need for cloned instancing. I wish PvP sieges weren't capped. But that is just the way of things right now. You can see the natural evolution of gaming technology here. They are taking baby steps... maybe 5-10 years from now, we'll all be running around in a huge seamless world, with no loading times, graphics like Crysis, chopping and hacking each other into little bits all in the name of glory. but, that time isn't now.
Bitching isn't going to help.
Huge seamless world with no load times? It was one of the first MMOs, Asheron's Call... minus the Crysis graphics of course.
Because it is a fact. Socialism = death.
REALITY CHECK
Some facts on WoW that a lot of people seem to forget, there was no Maraudon, Dire Maul, UBRS, MC, BWL etc, Strat farming was all there was really for the first batch of lvl 60's. Also, no BG's so there was no pvp at all outside of world pvp. Still think WoW had more content at launch?
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
Because it is a fact. Socialism = death.
No. Socialism is safe and quiet poverty and "shutup" for the masses, and and insame amount of chance for corruption for the elite.
Trust me, i lived in it
By the way, the OP has serious issues with terminology. Mixes "balance" with "equality". Also, nature is all about balance. When something is not in balance, it will sort itself out over time (especially when humanity is not involved). Some wiser cultures than ours still understand this.... sure you heard about Yin and Yang?
So, to summarize.....
Balance does not mean equality.
Balance is NOT socialism.
Balance is good. Always.
Equality is usually good, but not in everything.
Nature is all about balance.
MMO's have not much to do with Nature.
MMO's have *some* to do with socialism, the amount of which depends on the developers
))
Maybe these ideas give a little more complexity on the discussion!
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Donnie Im from Slovakia, a bit north from you. We had a communism here as well. And I still have so much hate against all the socialistic communistic pigs that I'll probably gonna take a gun and shoot every left-wing politician in our current government.
If you notice a news in your local newspaper that an insane guy in Bratislava blow himself up in SMER headquarters, don't expect to read any more posts by me on these boards.
REALITY CHECK
And OP got it obviously very wrong. Class balance is not socialism. Perfect socialism would be equal reward for everyone no matter what you do or how you do it. Class balance is healthy for capitalistic system actually. It's a fair chance for everyone and it's only up to you how you use it. That's what capitalism is about not SOCIALISM. Socialism is as I already said about equal reward for everyone without taking your action in consideration.
REALITY CHECK
Dont get out the pumpgun yet
Definition check. Solzial is not what sozialism or communism is/was. In the end humans are social herd animals. Like monkeys, cows, horses or sheep. To be naturally social isnt wrong.
Fair enough
I actually agree with both of your posts. And no worries, I still remember where Slovakia is 
))
(BTW we have an ex-socialist government in the last 6 (!!) years. 6 years ago Hungary had one of the best economy and standard of living in the ex-eastern block.
Today, we're one of the worst.
So, i don't think you hate these disgusting corrupt sucker red vampires more than I do
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
To be social is to build a crowd for an easier life. That way you can fight an attacking lion or get rid of the flees
Its not about equal reward. The monkey who slept lazy all day long has less banana then the monkey who gathered a lot bananas.
Dont get out the pumpgun yet
Definition check. Solzial is not what sozialism or communism is/was. In the end humans are social herd animals. Like monkeys, cows, horses or sheep. To be naturally social isnt wrong.
This is such a fallacy. We developed to this point, and we can say we were born to have this intellect. Milions of years of evolution gave us this intellect and made us develop capitalism. Do you think that evolution goes against nature? That's the biggest contradiction you can ever say.
REALITY CHECK
Dont get out the pumpgun yet
Definition check. Solzial is not what sozialism or communism is/was. In the end humans are social herd animals. Like monkeys, cows, horses or sheep. To be naturally social isnt wrong.
The term "social" has lost all of its connection to the word "socialist" long ago.
Socialism defined by Marx and socialism practised in the Eastern Block did never have ANY connection.
Ideology was used for keeping power and for justifying any kind of oppression. Something like Iraq was before the invasion, a pretty good analogy actually
(only exception is that we and Slovakia never had any oil, so no western power rushed to "liberate" us :P
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
At the end of the day this is the OPs opinion, saying WoW is shallow or whatever and AoC is good and solid is your OWN opinion, you have the right to it, but thats what it is, your view of things, I dont agree but i respect it.
Now the game being imcomplete, not having box features, and major flaws that have been pin pointed by several users over the last month, is a fact, there is no subjectivity. With the amount of people on the "MMO scene" as it is, people are gonna demand better.
The way i see it, the MMO market pre-wow was a conformist market, not many ppl, you had to "take whatever they gave you", post-wow, so many people have joined in the crowd, that they demand more quality, these people are not the conformists of the pre-WoW era, they are not gonna pay for beta or for unfinished games, and surely not gonna take the old "it will be fixed in the future excuse". These are ppl who (possibly) only had contact with single player pc games, and/or console games, that are used to going to the shop and buying a finished product.
To round it all up, its the Companies that have to change the way they produce MMOs to fit the market, and not the way it is now, that the customer has to be conformist with whatever bone they are thrown.
To be social is to build a crowd for an easier life. That way you can fight an attacking lion or get rid of the flees
Its not about equal reward. The monkey who slept lazy all day long has less banana then the monkey who gathered a lot bananas.
That's what Marx had in mind.
And that's what Stalin abused to massacre millions of people (more than Hitler actually). He just wanted to make everyone either "equal" (as in: equal in idolizing and serving him), or make them dead.
Socialism is the best ideal abused in the worst way and manner.
At least Hitler's ideals were wrong by nature
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
To be social is to build a crowd for an easier life. That way you can fight an attacking lion or get rid of the flees
Its not about equal reward. The monkey who slept lazy all day long has less banana then the monkey who gathered a lot bananas.
That's what Marx had in mind.
And that's what Stalin abused to massacre millions of people (more than Hitler actually). He just wanted to make everyone either "equal" (as in: equal in idolizing and serving him), or make them dead.
Socialism is the best ideal abused in the worst way and manner.
At least Hitler's ideals were wrong by nature
DB
For me Stalin was the same evil as Hitler.
REALITY CHECK
A good game is what the players make out of it. At the moment 10+ million are enjoying it, thus it is a good game for them. It's better than keeping jumping ship from game to game for the next wow killer as so many on this foum seem so keen to do.