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netdevil = autoassault
PoopyStuff
Member Posts: 297
while I am psyched for this game to come out
I'm not getting my hopes up.
Comments
Did you played AA?
Why it failed so badly is a mystery to me.
I do though belive a company can learn from mistake and make very sucesfull game.
Look at turbine
DDO was a major failure <> LOTRO a major succes
Dungeons and Dragons and Lord of the Rings are 2 very different IP's.
DnD did not have a series of movies that pulled in millions and revived the following of LOTR.
DnD's most loyal fans avoid computers for gaming.
they are both classic IP's that have shaped the market.
DnD online just did not have the support from outside of the game as LOTRO did.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
The most basic problem was the horrible, non-intuitive movement. The physics engine was junk, the cars felt like they were filled with helium and more bouncy than Dead or Alive chest animations. There was no vehicle traction when you needed it and yet the moronic zone designers decided to put in tons of ditches and pits.
None of the Auto Assault zone design team must have ever seen Mad Max or Road Warrior. Everything in those classic 'Car Wars' films was FLAT. Because the directors knew they were in freaking CARS and ditches would make it impossible to manuever.
Movement is a basic, fundamental element of any game. Auto Assault failed miserably in providing decent game movement and zones to make movement anything less than a tragic mess.
There were other issues, but movement is such a no-brainer mechanic it seemed ridiculous anyone could make a game that failed in that.
The most basic problem was the horrible, non-intuitive movement. The physics engine was junk, the cars felt like they were filled with helium and more bouncy than Dead or Alive chest animations. There was no vehicle traction when you needed it and yet the moronic zone designers decided to put in tons of ditches and pits.
None of the Auto Assault zone design team must have ever seen Mad Max or Road Warrior. Everything in those classic 'Car Wars' films was FLAT. Because the directors knew they were in freaking CARS and ditches would make it impossible to manuever.
Movement is a basic, fundamental element of any game. Auto Assault failed miserably in providing decent game movement and zones to make movement anything less than a tragic mess.
There were other issues, but movement is such a no-brainer mechanic it seemed ridiculous anyone could make a game that failed in that.
Fair enough, and thanks for explanationThis AA problem really sounds like a mess.
On other hand old Jumpgate players swear by its awesome flight engine.
I just hope NetDevil really learned their lesson from Autoassault...
Sorry dude. Can i have mushrooms you are smoking ?
D&D fans are like 101% computer geeks. And they all play video games A LOT
LOTRO people on other hand are book worms and old hippies...some of them never seen a computer at all... hehe
And as for support outside of the game...no DDO didnt have it
Reason is the fact it totally missed the point of D&D , and most D&D players hated it with passion.
Take it from D&D geek ...
That is me
Well, Netdevil is attempting to resurrect a game that had limited popularity during its first incarnation, so they have quite a few challenges ahead of them.
The good news is that there is few good space titles out there right now, and nothing that offers that joystick type space flight and combat that I've heard the original had.
Odds are good that it will be another PotBS, heavy on PVP, appealing to more limited audience, but still drawing in a decent crowd. Doubtful it will have anywhere near the depth (or sub numbers) of the original SWG.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Surely SWGs one main advantage was the IP. I mean who the hell knows JGs story exept for the original JGC players?
While I think SWG is an ok game, the gameplay wont be as fun as JGE if it turns out how I imgaine it will. But cant be sure on that, so dont flame me..
I think many will be suprised of how good JGE will be.
Autoassault, never played it, so cant rly comment on that..I just know that NCSoft shut it down..
My cool sig: Turrets suck.
The most basic problem was the horrible, non-intuitive movement. The physics engine was junk, the cars felt like they were filled with helium and more bouncy than Dead or Alive chest animations. There was no vehicle traction when you needed it and yet the moronic zone designers decided to put in tons of ditches and pits.
None of the Auto Assault zone design team must have ever seen Mad Max or Road Warrior. Everything in those classic 'Car Wars' films was FLAT. Because the directors knew they were in freaking CARS and ditches would make it impossible to manuever.
Movement is a basic, fundamental element of any game. Auto Assault failed miserably in providing decent game movement and zones to make movement anything less than a tragic mess.
There were other issues, but movement is such a no-brainer mechanic it seemed ridiculous anyone could make a game that failed in that.
Fair enough, and thanks for explanationThis AA problem really sounds like a mess.
On other hand old Jumpgate players swear by its awesome flight engine.
I just hope NetDevil really learned their lesson from Autoassault...
Actually the main problem for AA was the content design.While some people like the above poster hated the handling many other people were fine with it.
The biggest reason people left is they got bored with the questing. Part of that was also the lack of grouping mechanics.
If you look at WoW they basically throw you into dungeon crawls periodically to break up the questing. Well AA's quest got very repetitive and were the only way to advance and they had nothing similar to dungeon crawls to break things up and throw people together.
They had most of the pieces except for the dungeon crawl part, they were just missing the glue and the grouping. They had instances and such and they were pretty cool, but they weren't dungeon crawls and grouping with people in those instances was kind of awkward in a car/motorcylce. Grouping in general was kind of awkward. And since it was essentially a class based game along the lines of DAOC it just kind of turned into a semi-solo rpg game but without the cool parts of most single players games.
In a nut shell that was its downfall. The interface may have made it a niche game, I dunno my motorcylce and cars handled fine as far as I was concerned. But the people who would have stayed simply got bored of the questing and wanted grouping to be less awkward.
I have no idea how that translates into Jumpgate because I think its content model is rather different than an EQ clone. AA tried to be an EQ clone and I suspect that was a bad idea. Or perhaps more appropriately they were a DAOC clone but never quite got the RvR started and the above mentioned problems in PvE.
Personally I think DDO's biggest challenge is trying to convince D&D fans to pay a monthly fee for what they can get for free with the NeverwinterNights games.
I played and enjoyed freelancer - and I am hoping Jumpgate is more like that.
The most basic problem was the horrible, non-intuitive movement. The physics engine was junk, the cars felt like they were filled with helium and more bouncy than Dead or Alive chest animations. There was no vehicle traction when you needed it and yet the moronic zone designers decided to put in tons of ditches and pits.
None of the Auto Assault zone design team must have ever seen Mad Max or Road Warrior. Everything in those classic 'Car Wars' films was FLAT. Because the directors knew they were in freaking CARS and ditches would make it impossible to manuever.
Movement is a basic, fundamental element of any game. Auto Assault failed miserably in providing decent game movement and zones to make movement anything less than a tragic mess.
There were other issues, but movement is such a no-brainer mechanic it seemed ridiculous anyone could make a game that failed in that.
Fair enough, and thanks for explanationThis AA problem really sounds like a mess.
On other hand old Jumpgate players swear by its awesome flight engine.
I just hope NetDevil really learned their lesson from Autoassault...
Alienovrlord is taking a preference issue and equating it to bad game design. He might be right in an odd way, though. MMORPG fans are used to a certain pace of movement and style of maneuvering. For better or for worse, almost everything out there uses the same WASD control scheme with approximately the same kind of strafing, jumping, and movement speed.
You don't have that luxury when you make a game where you pilot a vehicle because both driving games and space sims have a huge spread among various titles in how they handle. No matter how you do it, you're going to have an army of people who won't play your game because it's not of the specific style they like. The game design issue in question here might be not picking a valid middle ground.
I don't think it was that, though. AA did have plenty of real technical flaws. You honestly had to have played it to understand how, even beyond issues of preference, it was just fundamentally broken in certain ways. Content issues on top of that only served to anger those people who toughed out the bugs. I could go into detail, but it's really irrelevant now. The point is that if Auto Assault fixed all those millions of tiny broken things before launch, many of which were painfully obvious in play, I think it could have secured a much healthier audience.
If there's a lesson to be learned here, it's probably that you should release a finished project which doesn't make people question their purchase as soon as they walk into their first town. If they can do that and if JGE is all it's cracked up to be, it might carve its own little niche audience similar in size to that of EVE. Will that happen? I don't have my hopes up either, to be honest. AA showed me a studio who can make a great game with 80% great execution, then screw up the remaining 20% so badly that it drives off most of their players. To give you an idea, even AO had a lower attrition rate immediately after launch.
Kurush, can you give some more specific detail of AA bugs ?
...
Anyway. I dont like what I am hearing about AA. They say JGE is developed by very small team of people.
While this sounds good in theory, i know it doesnt work in practice. And can result only in buggy or content empty game on the end.
Still , if anything JGE from what was shown and heared up to now , shows great promise
Lets hope it will deliver
AA was not a bad game, basically speaking, it was TR on wheels.
No offense.. just how I see it. I was in the AA beta for a long time.. even bought it. No I didn't play live long but not for any reason you listed.
Non intuitive movement? that one really boggles me.
forward... to go forward.. back to go back.. turn left .. turn right.
Not sure how it gets more basic than that. I'll just pretend its some part of the game I never noticed an issue with that you did. Altho I do remember that like most games.. I remapped the keys. /shrug
AA was based on a total destruction system. I don't think "reality" was ever part of the physics package. It was supposed to be fun.
It was fun.. but it was something that would have been a great console game.. not a pay per month MMO.
Cars... there were vehicles in AA. They weren't cars that rolled over 6 times.. and blew up. The idea of the "fun" was to go really fast.. do really crazy jumps .. flip over.. and blow stuff up.
Which is pretty much why I stick to the .. great console game. Not so great MMO.
But... wait there is more.
You ever think about how your vehicle.. you go really fast and hit a bump. Then what happened? You went up in the air... and.. your vehicle rolled over.
Now think about Tabula Rasa... you run jump up in the air and your character tumbles. Plus you find all that armor paint that dropped by the truck load in AA.
AA got a graphic update.. they turned your vehicle into a "soldier" and renamed it.. Tabula Rasa. Oh and yes I know exactly where TR is headed. I just wonder what the games next title will be.
To the OP... if you are curious about it at all. Just research Jumpgate... and see what info you can find. Its basicly a rebuild of an older game.
ddo failed due to uber instancing, poor character models,the crappiest module..i could go on. a forgotten realms (sword coast,baldur's gate) would challenge wow if done properly.
http://www.soesucks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10
auto assault was a very fun game at launch but suffered from a buggy and incomplete launch. with every patch you had to relearn your class and eventually everyone got sick of it. it had a core fanbase but it was mishandled and seemed to be drug in many directions at once.
http://www.soesucks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10
ND has alot to make up for however. For me, if they screw up with JGE I won't be looking to give them another chance with any of their products.
The original JumpGate (now refered to as JumpGate Classic) was an amazing game. Ample RP, Astounding space physics engine, and PvP that made your heart race while your hands become sweaty.
I see people trying to compare it to other games, if anything it should be compared to a WW2 Fighter sim like PacificFighters or Aces High. It was a space fighter sim, with the added bonus of a constant MMO universe. Player based economy. Player guilds. And a player driven RP that could not be avoided. Yes, everyone was FORCED to deal with everyone elses view of RP. Even if that dealt with a lone Ace pilot who preyed intensly on newer pilots.
I see people cry about this constantly, but in all reality it was one of the best aspects of JG's gameplay. And I'm not talking about the greifer, I am speaking of the fact that these low level pilots struggled to learn how to fly. Then ended up mounting their own form of justice versus these more experienced pilots. It created friendships... a sense of community that no other game has come close to creating.
I for one remember, even years later, a majority of players and their names from JumpGate. No other community has stuck with me like this.
I've played Klingon Academy, JG, DAoC, PlanetSide, DDO, LotRO, WoW, Eve and countless others... but I remember JG and its player base.
NetDevil screwed up.. they admitted they screwed up. Lets see if they can get it right this time. Produce the same quality they had with the orignal JumpGate.. but actually get the PR engine rolling and give people the chance they didnt have before. The chance to actually get to play this game.
And yes, they did learn their lessons from auto assault :-)
I'd of agreed that they' learnt their lesson from AA simply by looking at what they did with JGC.... but the more I hear about the plans for JGE and how it will appeal "to everyone", the more I'm expecting JGE to suffer from a launch where theres appeal to dozens of play styles but dumbed down simple short content for each.
Their already planning to pretty much release two completely differant versions of the game, one with restricted consensual PvP and another with more JGC styled 'open' PvP. Which in itself will make future balancing and new features a major pain in the arse to balance to suit each seperate style.
Which, is what I think was the major flaw with AutoAssault. Netdevil attempted to make a game with a unique equipment generation, unique crafting system and awesome graphics and focused on all 3 at the same time. Because their attention was spread across so many differant areas what they ended up with was a game that was good to look at and had a quirky loot system, but had a half-done crafting system and poor Client-Server handling.
Though I believe most of the flaws have been chalked up officialy to 'To high system specs'
You don't think there's anything amiss? I'm sat here wearing a red and white gingham dress, and army boots, you think that's un-amiss?
Well if JGE is going to open up 2 servers, that will be there downfall right from the start. I don't really understand why they wouldn't just keep it like it is with open pvp. Anyone and everyone that has ever played JGC knows that pvp is a risk you take once you undock. That risk alone is fun. Makes you take time to learn how to fly, and adds an element to the game that few have. Eve is probably the only other game that has such a risk. And just because there is open pvp, doesn't mean the crafting and mining will be completely done with. Unless they plan on changing that too, which would be sad.
My Jumpgate Classic account is still active. It is fun, but gets boring real quick.
I am hoping JGE is more interesting. I would love to see some of Earth and Beyond questing and grouping in it, but I doubt it.
Flying in EnB was just mouse clicking. Didnt like that. Grouping was fun, we all had a job to do with each ships different characteristics.
I miss EnB, it was my favorite. Made it up to level 135 as a Terran Trader. Crafting was fun also.
The me who hears what the other me can't, is the dominant one.
Sorry dude. Can i have mushrooms you are smoking ?
D&D fans are like 101% computer geeks. And they all play video games A LOT
LOTRO people on other hand are book worms and old hippies...some of them never seen a computer at all... hehe
And as for support outside of the game...no DDO didnt have it
Reason is the fact it totally missed the point of D&D , and most D&D players hated it with passion.
Take it from D&D geek ...
That is me
LOL I love Lobo, This guy is AWESOME!
I would vote him for president of the united states if I could.
HI-FIVE!
I think everyone can agree that Netdevil is trying to implement lessons learned in JGE.
I think it was a huge jump from a small-budget niche game, to a bigger budget better PRed game.
_________________
Lifelong TRI Pilot
Jumpgate Evolution
_________________
The reason DDO failed is because they released it around the same time as WOW, that was a mistake :P
The reason DDO failed is because they released it around the same time as WOW, that was a mistake :P
Yes. Around the same time. But two years later
I can't wait for JGE, who cares about AA.