Originally posted by Theodgrim I agree with much of what you have written here, well said. Yes, if you want to address an audience of programmers, this is not the best forum. If you want to discuss Darkfall's beta strategy, you are in the right place.
is that what this thread was about? Damn....I lost track a few pages ago....
I guess more to the topic at hand then; Darkfall has a 'beta strategy'? When did this happen?
at this point, if a person can't at least laugh about it, they are taking it too seriously.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I found the most unprofessional looking website of any AAA MMORPG company. I found the most unprofessional looking website of any MMORPG game listed http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm
If they chose to make themselves look like the most unprofessional looking MMORPG company around, then why should any of us take anything they say seriously?
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Alright Chryses, I went to their website. What did I find? http://www.aventurine.gr/ I found the most unprofessional looking website of any AAA MMORPG company. I found the most unprofessional looking website of any MMORPG game listed http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm If they chose to make themselves look like the most unprofessional looking MMORPG company around, then why should any of us take anything they say seriously?
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
Shoot man, if this is a discussion then I would fear for my life if you guys ever got in an argument.
But as for whether or not this game comes out, does it really matter? I mean if it comes out and turns out crappy, Hey you guys were right the way they are testing it is complete garbage. Don't buy the game. But if it comes out and is really good then they must have done something right or they just got lucky. Either way if it is really good buy it and play it. Or if for whatever reason, this game doesn't come out. Does it really make a difference? You all are saying it is garbage, bologna, rubbish. So if it doesn't come out then it shouldn't really matter to you because you already thought it was crap and didn't want it.
So I guess basically just wait and see. If it comes out and is good then kudos they made a good game I might have to try it. But if it comes out and is complete garbage than the majority of you were right. In short if turns out to be good buy it. If it turns out badly don't buy it, and if it doesn't turn out at all then for god's sake don't buy it.
Originally posted by Theodgrim I agree with much of what you have written here, well said. Yes, if you want to address an audience of programmers, this is not the best forum. If you want to discuss Darkfall's beta strategy, you are in the right place.
is that what this thread was about? Damn....I lost track a few pages ago....
I guess more to the topic at hand then; Darkfall has a 'beta strategy'? When did this happen?
at this point, if a person can't at least laugh about it, they are taking it too seriously.
Yes, a good laugh is called for - I am all cried out.
Had to go check the OP for myself, but indeed, beta discussion was on topic!
Originally posted by chryses
As for the open beta test, I don't blame them not having one so early since every other MMO that has gone down that route end up getting bashed and spawning 1000's of trolls shouting how crap their game is. When will people understand that BETA = testing, not final product!
After seeing a video of someone playing Duke Nuke'm Forever, I've concluded that it is completely possible for Darkfall to come out of development (as well as DNF).
_________________________________ "Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..." -George "sniperg" Light
Alright Chryses, I went to their website. What did I find? http://www.aventurine.gr/ I found the most unprofessional looking website of any AAA MMORPG company. I found the most unprofessional looking website of any MMORPG game listed http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm If they chose to make themselves look like the most unprofessional looking MMORPG company around, then why should any of us take anything they say seriously?
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
<modedit>
LMAO. Your Precious DFO is six months and counting from launch. We see nothing from them that leads us to believe they are getting ready for launch. There is no publisher. There is no advertising. There is nothing coming from Aventurine except Tasos saying they will be launching by the end of the year. No company has announced an agreement with Aventurine for server banks or anything. Where is the hiring that leads up to launch? Still on their website are the same two job ads that have been there for over three years. There is nothing new. Where is the proof of anything? The clock is ticking and there is way too much to do and no proof anything is getting done.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am not phased by their website design or the lack of dozens of in-game video etc. Its not a massive glossy MMO factory with 10 people dedicated to fly around the world preaching about their game. EVE Online way back had the same type of publicity. I was playing Earth & Beyond back then and rumours about EVE filled general chat constantly topics such as:
* Not enough footage or general game information
* Its never going to launch because the company is too small and inexperienced
* How can they compete with the big companies? etc
* I hear there is nothing to do in it.
Then when players actually did get into Beta it got worse. 'I am just mining fking rocks all day and there is nothing to do', 'I am getting ganked at every gate, this game sucks!', 'POC' etc etc...
Look at EVE now. It doesn't have 10 or even 1 million subscribers but it has a hardcore fan base of 150-200k that live and breath the game plus subs continue to climb steadily.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I have seen a similar situation before where a small company has developed a sandbox, indy type game and this chain of events is not unfamiliar, so I do expect Darkfall to launch. Albeit for the first few months the trolls will be hunting in packs on threads but like EVE it will find its feet.
I love the concept of the game and their website is fleshed out well in Lore ect. I hope this game does come out and something tells me it will, but we shall wait and see.
I am not phased by their website design or the lack of dozens of in-game video etc. Its not a massive glossy MMO factory with 10 people dedicated to fly around the world preaching about their game. EVE Online way back had the same type of publicity. I was playing Earth & Beyond back then and rumours about EVE filled general chat constantly topics such as: * Not enough footage or general game information * Its never going to launch because the company is too small and inexperienced * How can they compete with the big companies? etc * I hear there is nothing to do in it. Then when players actually did get into Beta it got worse. 'I am just mining fking rocks all day and there is nothing to do', 'I am getting ganked at every gate, this game sucks!', 'POC' etc etc... Look at EVE now. It doesn't have 10 or even 1 million subscribers but it has a hardcore fan base of 150-200k that live and breath the game plus subs continue to climb steadily. I guess what I am trying to say is that I have seen a similar situation before where a small company has developed a sandbox, indy type game and this chain of events is not unfamiliar, so I do expect Darkfall to launch. Albeit for the first few months the trolls will be hunting in packs on threads but like EVE it will find its feet.
I have mentioned EvE as a good model for Darkfall to follow a couple different times. Of course, I can think of several far less successful indie games like Mourning, Dark and Light, Roma Victor, WWIIOL off the top of my head...but I digress. EvE is one of the exceptions.
However, things are different with Darkfall. EvE had a good beta for one. I was happy to test it, even though the game was too boring for my taste. But, EvE also started out relatively small and not that complicated, but what it did, it did pretty well. Over the years, they made money, learned form experience, added content and upgrades to get to the game we have today.
Darkfall has gone a different route. In-house only beta, no community interaction, and promises a great deal of features and sophistication at release. Hey - it is possible that they will get it right on their first try all by themselves...but odds are against them, IMO.
I love the concept of the game and their website is fleshed out well in Lore ect. I hope this game does come out and something tells me it will, but we shall wait and see.
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Alright Chryses, I went to their website. What did I find? http://www.aventurine.gr/ I found the most unprofessional looking website of any AAA MMORPG company. I found the most unprofessional looking website of any MMORPG game listed http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm If they chose to make themselves look like the most unprofessional looking MMORPG company around, then why should any of us take anything they say seriously?
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
<modedit>
WOW! You,re back from the dead, and it only took you about 5 seconds to put down AOC as a defense of Darkfall.
Alright Chryses, I went to their website. What did I find? http://www.aventurine.gr/ I found the most unprofessional looking website of any AAA MMORPG company. I found the most unprofessional looking website of any MMORPG game listed http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm If they chose to make themselves look like the most unprofessional looking MMORPG company around, then why should any of us take anything they say seriously?
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
<modedit>
LMAO. Your Precious DFO is six months and counting from launch. We see nothing from them that leads us to believe they are getting ready for launch. There is no publisher. There is no advertising. There is nothing coming from Aventurine except Tasos saying they will be launching by the end of the year. No company has announced an agreement with Aventurine for server banks or anything. Where is the hiring that leads up to launch? Still on their website are the same two job ads that have been there for over three years. There is nothing new. Where is the proof of anything? The clock is ticking and there is way too much to do and no proof anything is getting done.
QFT!
Shannia, you should be well aware by now, that using LOGIC and REASON with Aragon, is like trying to communicate with a tomato plant.
He will NEVER get it!
Never!
But you, I and others, with at least a modicum of common sense, and the "ability" to reason and rationalize, can easily find many questionable flaws in this whole Darkfall saga.
You must admit that there are MANY, MANY things to question here.
But... He cannot even find the slightest thing about Darkfall to question. Not one thing.
And... That's simply NOT being realistic. I mean, no matter how big a fan you are, there's certainly plenty about this project to at least "raise" your eyebrow about and wonder.
I understand Aragon's delima. I was a die-hard Vanguard fan that followed McQuaid regardless of what others said. Vanguard/Sigil was a very bitter pill for me to take. The one lesson I learned is to never, ever believe anything that these developers say as gospel until they deliver. Screen shots and game play video doesn't mean squat because that can all be fabricated with bots in the game to make something look as good or as bad as the developer wants it to appear.
I want DFO to launch and with success. Unfortunately, I do not get a sense of professionalism or dedication from Aventurine. http://www.aventurine.gr/ tells me everything I need to know to make up my mind on much they care about their image and how seriously they take their project. Saying that, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I understand Aragon's delima. I was a die-hard Vanguard fan that followed McQuaid regardless of what others said. Vanguard/Sigil was a very bitter pill for me to take. The one lesson I learned is to never, ever believe anything that these developers say as gospel until they deliver. Screen shots and game play video doesn't mean squat because that can all be fabricated with bots in the game to make something look as good or as bad as the developer wants it to appear. I want DFO to launch and with success. Unfortunately, I do not get a sense of professionalism or dedication from Aventurine. http://www.aventurine.gr/ tells me everything I need to know to make up my mind on much they care about their image and how seriously they take their project. Saying that, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Very good point Shannia. I would wager that the vast majority of the skeptics around here have learned the hard way. I know I have. Once you learn the signs to look for, you dont get surprised very damn often. There is a chance DF will be a kick-ass game right out of the gate, but the signs dont look good. Not good at all.
I am not phased by their website design or the lack of dozens of in-game video etc. Its not a massive glossy MMO factory with 10 people dedicated to fly around the world preaching about their game. EVE Online way back had the same type of publicity. I was playing Earth & Beyond back then and rumours about EVE filled general chat constantly topics such as: * Not enough footage or general game information * Its never going to launch because the company is too small and inexperienced * How can they compete with the big companies? etc * I hear there is nothing to do in it. Then when players actually did get into Beta it got worse. 'I am just mining fking rocks all day and there is nothing to do', 'I am getting ganked at every gate, this game sucks!', 'POC' etc etc... Look at EVE now. It doesn't have 10 or even 1 million subscribers but it has a hardcore fan base of 150-200k that live and breath the game plus subs continue to climb steadily. I guess what I am trying to say is that I have seen a similar situation before where a small company has developed a sandbox, indy type game and this chain of events is not unfamiliar, so I do expect Darkfall to launch. Albeit for the first few months the trolls will be hunting in packs on threads but like EVE it will find its feet.
I have mentioned EvE as a good model for Darkfall to follow a couple different times. Of course, I can think of several far less successful indie games like Mourning, Dark and Light, Roma Victor, WWIIOL off the top of my head...but I digress. EvE is one of the exceptions.
However, things are different with Darkfall. EvE had a good beta for one. I was happy to test it, even though the game was too boring for my taste. But, EvE also started out relatively small and not that complicated, but what it did, it did pretty well. Over the years, they made money, learned form experience, added content and upgrades to get to the game we have today.
Darkfall has gone a different route. In-house only beta, no community interaction, and promises a great deal of features and sophistication at release. Hey - it is possible that they will get it right on their first try all by themselves...but odds are against them, IMO.
I have to say good call on this one EVE is almost an exception but here's hoping that DF Devs have also learnt from other companies mistakes. I for one don't blame them for not going public on BETA unless its half decent. People can't seem to understand that BETA is BETA and its not the end game. I have seen too many MMO's get barbecued because the beta testers moaned about it so much.
I have to say good call on this one EVE is almost an exception but here's hoping that DF Devs have also learnt from other companies mistakes. I for one don't blame them for not going public on BETA unless its half decent. People can't seem to understand that BETA is BETA and its not the end game. I have seen too many MMO's get barbecued because the beta testers moaned about it so much.
Also reminds me to download the new EVE patch....
Thanks, we certainly can agree about EvE.
The problem is, we dont agree about Darkfall!
If Aventurine has learned from other companies, CCP wasnt one of them. As I mentioned, they are going almost the complete opposite route that EvE has taken.
EvE had a public beta. (I am not talking open beta. I am talking about closed beta, with testers outside the company, under NDA) EvE had press coverage - that was almost universally positive. Google some of the old EvE previews. EvE started modestly and ramped up over the years.
I dont buy the excuse about beta leaks ruining games. In my experience, the leaks are almost always correct, and it is the crappy game that is the problem, not the leaks.
Comments
is that what this thread was about? Damn....I lost track a few pages ago....
I guess more to the topic at hand then; Darkfall has a 'beta strategy'? When did this happen?
at this point, if a person can't at least laugh about it, they are taking it too seriously.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Alright Chryses, I went to their website. What did I find?
http://www.aventurine.gr/
I found the most unprofessional looking website of any AAA MMORPG company. I found the most unprofessional looking website of any MMORPG game listed http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm
If they chose to make themselves look like the most unprofessional looking MMORPG company around, then why should any of us take anything they say seriously?
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
<modedit>
Shoot man, if this is a discussion then I would fear for my life if you guys ever got in an argument.
But as for whether or not this game comes out, does it really matter? I mean if it comes out and turns out crappy, Hey you guys were right the way they are testing it is complete garbage. Don't buy the game. But if it comes out and is really good then they must have done something right or they just got lucky. Either way if it is really good buy it and play it. Or if for whatever reason, this game doesn't come out. Does it really make a difference? You all are saying it is garbage, bologna, rubbish. So if it doesn't come out then it shouldn't really matter to you because you already thought it was crap and didn't want it.
So I guess basically just wait and see. If it comes out and is good then kudos they made a good game I might have to try it. But if it comes out and is complete garbage than the majority of you were right. In short if turns out to be good buy it. If it turns out badly don't buy it, and if it doesn't turn out at all then for god's sake don't buy it.
is that what this thread was about? Damn....I lost track a few pages ago....
I guess more to the topic at hand then; Darkfall has a 'beta strategy'? When did this happen?
at this point, if a person can't at least laugh about it, they are taking it too seriously.
Yes, a good laugh is called for - I am all cried out.
Had to go check the OP for myself, but indeed, beta discussion was on topic!
After seeing a video of someone playing Duke Nuke'm Forever, I've concluded that it is completely possible for Darkfall to come out of development (as well as DNF).
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
<modedit>
LMAO. Your Precious DFO is six months and counting from launch. We see nothing from them that leads us to believe they are getting ready for launch. There is no publisher. There is no advertising. There is nothing coming from Aventurine except Tasos saying they will be launching by the end of the year. No company has announced an agreement with Aventurine for server banks or anything. Where is the hiring that leads up to launch? Still on their website are the same two job ads that have been there for over three years. There is nothing new. Where is the proof of anything? The clock is ticking and there is way too much to do and no proof anything is getting done.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am not phased by their website design or the lack of dozens of in-game video etc. Its not a massive glossy MMO factory with 10 people dedicated to fly around the world preaching about their game. EVE Online way back had the same type of publicity. I was playing Earth & Beyond back then and rumours about EVE filled general chat constantly topics such as:
* Not enough footage or general game information
* Its never going to launch because the company is too small and inexperienced
* How can they compete with the big companies? etc
* I hear there is nothing to do in it.
Then when players actually did get into Beta it got worse. 'I am just mining fking rocks all day and there is nothing to do', 'I am getting ganked at every gate, this game sucks!', 'POC' etc etc...
Look at EVE now. It doesn't have 10 or even 1 million subscribers but it has a hardcore fan base of 150-200k that live and breath the game plus subs continue to climb steadily.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I have seen a similar situation before where a small company has developed a sandbox, indy type game and this chain of events is not unfamiliar, so I do expect Darkfall to launch. Albeit for the first few months the trolls will be hunting in packs on threads but like EVE it will find its feet.
I love the concept of the game and their website is fleshed out well in Lore ect. I hope this game does come out and something tells me it will, but we shall wait and see.
I have mentioned EvE as a good model for Darkfall to follow a couple different times. Of course, I can think of several far less successful indie games like Mourning, Dark and Light, Roma Victor, WWIIOL off the top of my head...but I digress. EvE is one of the exceptions.
However, things are different with Darkfall. EvE had a good beta for one. I was happy to test it, even though the game was too boring for my taste. But, EvE also started out relatively small and not that complicated, but what it did, it did pretty well. Over the years, they made money, learned form experience, added content and upgrades to get to the game we have today.
Darkfall has gone a different route. In-house only beta, no community interaction, and promises a great deal of features and sophistication at release. Hey - it is possible that they will get it right on their first try all by themselves...but odds are against them, IMO.
Hmmm
Fleshed out well? http://www.aventurine.gr/
The latest news? http://contest.mmosite.com/annual_vote2007/game/darkfall.shtml A 2007 Award. I guess that slipped pass Tasos last year.
At least they have some lore. Too bad the lore pages have not been updated in years like it says will happen.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Please don't encourage the vaporware.
It is to be looked upon , poked with a stick , but never encouraged.
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
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WOW! You,re back from the dead, and it only took you about 5 seconds to put down AOC as a defense of Darkfall.
Well done!
And since when does the look of a website predict the quality of a game? A small indy company like Aventurine with little resources that put all workload and funds on the only thing that counts, making the game as good as possible. Thats what counts. Not PR, videos and whatever hype tricks some other game companies uses to fool the unaware buyers.
Funcoms Age of Conan [nice website] sure failed with their overhyped game. They managed to lure people buying their crap product by having just about no information whatsoever on their product before release. They is a perfect example of a overhyped game with massive PR and hahaha- a nice website. And that didnt seem to help alot. Actually it destroyed alot of credibility for the whole MMORPG genre.
Aventurine made it clear for anyone thats interested in reading Dev Journals that expensive PR campaigns isnt for them. Prioritating on making as a good game as possible isnt unproffesional to me, its the opposite, a very professional approach.
You gotta remember not all game companies have the funds making these expensive PR campaigns. And DF devs never hyped their game, its us the followers that do that. Letting us play their game before buy is also a very honest approach to us buyers. You can actually test the full game before buying it. I dont think greedy game companies like Funcom thought about that for a second. Darkfall Devs have as i see it been very honest to us the players about their intentions and information.
Darkfall will be released 2008 and thats the only official release date they ever delivered to us.
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LMAO. Your Precious DFO is six months and counting from launch. We see nothing from them that leads us to believe they are getting ready for launch. There is no publisher. There is no advertising. There is nothing coming from Aventurine except Tasos saying they will be launching by the end of the year. No company has announced an agreement with Aventurine for server banks or anything. Where is the hiring that leads up to launch? Still on their website are the same two job ads that have been there for over three years. There is nothing new. Where is the proof of anything? The clock is ticking and there is way too much to do and no proof anything is getting done.
QFT!
Shannia, you should be well aware by now, that using LOGIC and REASON with Aragon, is like trying to communicate with a tomato plant.
He will NEVER get it!
Never!
But you, I and others, with at least a modicum of common sense, and the "ability" to reason and rationalize, can easily find many questionable flaws in this whole Darkfall saga.
You must admit that there are MANY, MANY things to question here.
But... He cannot even find the slightest thing about Darkfall to question. Not one thing.
And... That's simply NOT being realistic. I mean, no matter how big a fan you are, there's certainly plenty about this project to at least "raise" your eyebrow about and wonder.
I understand Aragon's delima. I was a die-hard Vanguard fan that followed McQuaid regardless of what others said. Vanguard/Sigil was a very bitter pill for me to take. The one lesson I learned is to never, ever believe anything that these developers say as gospel until they deliver. Screen shots and game play video doesn't mean squat because that can all be fabricated with bots in the game to make something look as good or as bad as the developer wants it to appear.
I want DFO to launch and with success. Unfortunately, I do not get a sense of professionalism or dedication from Aventurine. http://www.aventurine.gr/ tells me everything I need to know to make up my mind on much they care about their image and how seriously they take their project. Saying that, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Very good point Shannia. I would wager that the vast majority of the skeptics around here have learned the hard way. I know I have. Once you learn the signs to look for, you dont get surprised very damn often. There is a chance DF will be a kick-ass game right out of the gate, but the signs dont look good. Not good at all.
I have mentioned EvE as a good model for Darkfall to follow a couple different times. Of course, I can think of several far less successful indie games like Mourning, Dark and Light, Roma Victor, WWIIOL off the top of my head...but I digress. EvE is one of the exceptions.
However, things are different with Darkfall. EvE had a good beta for one. I was happy to test it, even though the game was too boring for my taste. But, EvE also started out relatively small and not that complicated, but what it did, it did pretty well. Over the years, they made money, learned form experience, added content and upgrades to get to the game we have today.
Darkfall has gone a different route. In-house only beta, no community interaction, and promises a great deal of features and sophistication at release. Hey - it is possible that they will get it right on their first try all by themselves...but odds are against them, IMO.
I have to say good call on this one
Also reminds me to download the new EVE patch....
Thanks, we certainly can agree about EvE.
The problem is, we dont agree about Darkfall!
If Aventurine has learned from other companies, CCP wasnt one of them. As I mentioned, they are going almost the complete opposite route that EvE has taken.
EvE had a public beta. (I am not talking open beta. I am talking about closed beta, with testers outside the company, under NDA) EvE had press coverage - that was almost universally positive. Google some of the old EvE previews. EvE started modestly and ramped up over the years.
I dont buy the excuse about beta leaks ruining games. In my experience, the leaks are almost always correct, and it is the crappy game that is the problem, not the leaks.
I can only hope