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Best comments from AoC forums
Ghist
Member Posts: 275
All right. My turn. As my 30-day "trial" period comes to a close, as with many players, the time to decide whether to subscribe for the first $15 month rapidly approaches, and I'm sure Funcom is waiting anxiously for that first round of subscriptions to charge through, so I feel this thread is important to them. That's why I'm writing this now.
Many of us are now evaluating the game at a deeper level, deciding on the things that all gamers consider when they pay a monthly fee for a new game, consciously or not: if we want to make a commitment to the endgame, figuring out whether the game is a good financial investment, and calculating if certain key improvements will come within that first paid month. I think it's safe to say that we've given the game an honest chance at this point to judge properly whether AoC is worthy of the additional investment. For me, it is not, and I'll give you my reasons why.
I think a recent and disturbing trend in both games and film is to cater to every possible customer, with too much emphasis on incredibly fast action and expensive eye candy. I think this sums up AoC rather nicely, and as it has been testified to on this board, many people enjoy this (and that's why this type of art perpetuates). However, I think this sort of creation comes at too huge a cost. For films, the cost is often plot, characterization, and even acting. For AoC, the cost is poor design fundamentals, usability, and quality assurance. There is a good game somewhere in the history of AoC design, but it was picked apart and diluted by some unknown force, which I can only assume comes in the form of a greedy publisher, poor leadership and vision, or poor experience with titles from the last two decades of video games, the playing of which could have better prepared the design team for what mistakes not to repeat.
Obviously, World of Warcraft is a behemoth of a game that interferes with everything else in the industry, whether it be aspects of its gameplay or its successful business model, all of which its followers and competitiors either try too hard to emulate, or try too hard to avoid. As with everything, balance is key. Funcom and future MMO developers owe it to themselves to find the fundamentals that make games like WoW so successful, and then build from those and create something special.
Funcom's primary offense in this regard is not learning from WoW's incredibly good user interface system. AoC's UI is clunky, confusing at times, and especially ugly. It's really rough to have to say that a UI killed my game experience, but in this case I think it may very well have. To put this in perspective, this is despite wonderful 3D graphics that I spend much more time looking at in the course of a gaming session. I refuse to exaggerate any points made in this review, despite my strong feelings on this particular point, but this is the honest truth. The inventory/bag system and presentation is archaic and plain, which is in stark contrast to the rest of the screen. The item icons are really strange and primitive, and the spell icons are too busy and indistinct (many are not recognizable at a glance). There is a gross lack of on-screen buttons by level 20 for all of the skills and spells you want to try out, and no way to add more to the screen without resorting to potentially unstable UI mods.
De-centralizing the interface to either side of the screen was probably a bad idea, as it dilutes information and can be confusing. Many people didn't even know there was a "Feat Points Available" text box in the middle of the screen when looking at the feats interface. While this may have seemed like a cool and different (read: innovative) way to arrange the menus and info screens, it really suffers in more important areas like practicality, communicating important information efficiently, and being easy to use. Interfacing with merchants and traders is also poorly designed. While I like the way the quests appear on the minimap, the quest menu itself is also lacking a certain...accuracy. Again, splitting the information to either side of the screen makes information harder to process, and was a bad idea overall.
On top of this, the social aspects of the UI (chat, guild, friends, searching for players and groups) are all equally as bad and hard to use and customize. My first experience with the Friends List was adding a friend whose info didn't ever update as he leveled up or went on and offline. Usability, practicality, efficiency. A good UI is supposed to convey information fast and accurately, and AoC's fails to do this on just about every possible level. Even the damage numbers popping up over my target's head were tiny and hard to read, and lacked contrast even at high resolutions.
I think AoC didn't benefit from the kind of early reviews it needed: bad ones. Especially internal ones. I'm particularly frustrated with the game reviews I read early on that advertised AoC as a groundbreaking, intuitive, and fun game to play without also pointing out its obvious flaws. AoC has elements that few early reviews mentioned at any length, for example, the fact that the game feels about 60% complete, and that many obvious elements of the game were missing or broken at release. Game critics (and internal testers, and beta testers) owe us (and Funcom) that much. The result is a game that sells rather well based on hype and A-list game review sites, but ends up disappointing a great many gamers.
AoC has two things that I feel are truly special: its graphics, and its combo system. The graphics don't need any detailed comment except that I think, with the exception of character models and armor variety, it is A+ for an MMO.
The combo system is definitely a good thing. It's a thing you can build an entire combat system around, perfect it, and build into a great setting. That said, I think it missed the mark. Combos are slow and lethargic (as is the rest of the combat system, and input-game reaction time) and only available to melee classes. I think a better approach would've been to make the combo system a central design, and build all twelve character classes around it. Instead, we have melee classes with the interesting (and occasionally strategic) arrow combos and then caster classes that are every bit as monotonous as a WoW caster in that you press one button to cast a spell. Combos could've been a universal feature. Why only give the innovation to 60% of the choices a player can make, and not 100%?
I also have to tell you that I played a necromancer for 32 levels and had to stop at one point and think really hard about what the designers must've been thinking when certain aspects of the class were put into writing, or into numbers. Before the last couple of patches (which includes the last five years of design, all private and public testing), it was really mind-boggling how rather arbitrary the class felt as I continued to level up. I had several spells for which a new rank was double the mana but increased by a fractional amount of damage. I can only imagine what the spreadsheet for necromancer spell ranks, their effects, and their mana costs looked like in the design room. There is a basic QA process that had to have gone on over those numbers at some point, and it seems to have been overlooked until after release when the paying players reported it back to you. On top of this there were nonfunctional or poorly designed feats (not unique to the necromancer by any means). In other words, glaring errors are inexcusable, considering the resources at your disposal in making a game like this, and while this doesn't necessarily impact my desire to play the game in the future, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth for the amount of respect you have for your customers, and the integrity of your design team.
In conclusion, while the game is not finished enough to warrant my monthly subscription, it does warrant watching future patch notes and forums for the time when the game gets closer to that polished gem the developers want it to be. It would suck to be stuck with a $50 paperweight here on my desk... so I hope that $50 I paid up front will allow the game to develop to where I can get my money's worth later on. I just can't help but thinking how many mistakes and faux pas could have been avoided entirely, especially considering the amount of man-hours and money that went into this project. It's clear to me that a great deal of effort went into making this the most visually attractive MMO on the market, and in that regard (not excusing the ugly UI), Funcom succeeded.
So here are the "what ifs": What if Funcom had learned more from the mistakes, and also the successes, of past MMOs? What if Funcom had spent more resources on quality assurance and internal testing?
I'll keep my eyes on AoC in the coming months and see what they can muster in terms of balancing classes, fixing bugs, overhauling the UI, and adding more endgame and PvP content. I imagine as they near the Xbox release date, many things will be different, and I'll come back to re-evaluate. Unfortunately, though, this is not a game I can motivate myself to continue paying to play into July.
Out of 10:
Visual: 9
Audio: 9
Gameplay: 7
Usability: 3
Polish: 3
Community: 7
Tech Support: 5
AoC as an art (graphics, music, interface, story, setting): 7
AoC as a design (fundamentals, philosophy, gameplay, content): 3
Funcom QA effort pre-release: 3
Funcom QA effort post-release: 9 (I can't help but think this is related directly to available budget.)
Overall: A solid 5, with an easy 7 or 8 in the coming months as the game continues its development.
Waiting for the next thing
Comments
Comprehensive, in-depth, well written, very informative, and how alot of AoC players feel. What a rare find on these forums, good job!
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Good review. I really don't agree with most of it. If I may ask... is WoW the only other mmo you have played? I noticed you made allot of comparisons to it.
The ones still playing AoC know it has it's faults, and they are diligently adding content, fixing bugs more than I've ever seen done in an MMO, and I've played, in order... Jumpgate, EvE, EQ2, D&D Online, LoTR, Vanguard, and now AoC.
Did they release it early? I'd be stupid for saying no, but from what I've seen so far, with the patches & adding content.... I'm very Impressed. I have faith in FC bacause they have been through this before and I see a really solid mmo in progress.
Very good review in my opinion, thanks for sharing.
I have to say this is one of the best commentary style reviews I have read on this site.
Like many others I am actually enjoying the game and seem to be able to find good content at all levels while others are saying there is litle to do. I do find the interface a little clunky especailly when compared to WOW or LOTR but not remotely as clunky as the original EQ or some of the free to play MMOs I have tried.
Anyway, with the rampant patching and improvements as well as leveling a couple of characters to the magical 40+ level mark I am finding the game, while not yet what I believe it will be, is enjoyable enough for me to spend my money on....for a while. if the reported improvements come and the continued effort to refine the product I still think it will end up the game I want.
I have dropped all my other games but LOTRO and AOC. I will try WAR and see what is up there. In the mean time I am very satisfied with my current games in regards to entertaining me, whichi is what it is all about.
This is a great review even though I am not in total alignment with the thoughts behind it but that is what make "opinions" differ!
Great job and I would love to see more from you.
I like the way you wrote this review. You should look at getting a part time job doing something along these lines as you seem to have a nack for it.
I'm not nearly far enough into the game to really dispute any of your comments or add much of my own. I will say that I can't stand the EQ2 UI. Some of the work that the modders do is simply amazing. Anywhere from truly artistic designs, to the most simple and feature rich sets I have ever seen. They really do add volumes to the game.
I have not checked out the UI mods for AoC. I am waiting a bit while still exploring the game. Hopefully they made it as easy as EQ2 is to mod. If so, I would just write the UI complaint out the window (even though the company should have taken care of this).
Again, TY for the review.
~MaddBomber
Heh ..... intelligent ..... articulate ....... what the hells wrong with you. What are you doing here?
Nice review by the way .......
~Hairysun~
http://www.straightdope.com/
hmmm.... hmmm. I agree on almost all points, but you've put it into words far better than I ever could. keep up the good work and I hope you have something else fun to do till AoC can rise up to an acceptable level for you.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
/agree with the above posters, great review, thanks for sharing! We need more posts like these in here.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
It's well written, I'll give you that. But what a lot of blablabla to say very little. You like to hear yourself talking while writing. The result of this is a huge wall of text that says very little. Can't you just make it factual and to the point instead of making huge empty phrases talking to yourself?
First, what does this review have to do with the title "Best comments from AoC forums"?
One half of your review is about the UI. I agree that the UI could be better, but imho this is the smallest of the problems this game has.
You are complaining about UI features (chat, friends, etc...) that are currently being overhauled. Have you missed the latest newsletter and forum posts regarding the new UI features, improved chat etc... with screenshots?
Then, you like the graphics. I agree with you.
Next, you find the combat too slow and don't like the caster mechanics. I haven't played a caster yet so I won't comment. But I like the melee a lot, so does almost everyone in my 100+ people guild.
Finally, even if you are missing so many good and bad aspects of the game, I like your conclusion and your grading system (even if I don't agree with everything). I agree that the game was rushed and unfinished. They should have released it 3-4 months later, but even with its problems, the world is already more polished than most of the other mmorpgs and the game is more than enough fun to play for casual players who don't rush through levels.
Thanks for the review. I will be holding off another 3 months at-least till i purchase this game or wait for something new to come out.
Originally posted by Mordria
Good review. If I may ask... is WoW the only other mmo you have played? I noticed you made allot of comparisons to it.
He only made two WoW references. That doesnt constitute as allot.
I really disagree with this statement. Maybe i'm not on the same page as you, but I think players that have played WoW are burnt out and want something new. If you didn't like WoW then you're not going to like a clone of it.
After WoW I don't want to play another level elf to 100 game.
Companies need to be innovative on their own. Not more WoW clones. It's possible WoW is going to ruin all future MMOs due to its mainstream approach.
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
I think he meant copy what WoW got right, not clone WoW completely.
Like the UI example, why couldn't FC have made an intuitive easy to use UI that even a moron could use, yet at the same built it to tap into the power of the mod community so advanced users could tweak to their heart's content.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
You guys do know that there are UI mods already out for AoC right?
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
Shamall - Sure, you can download the mods, but the basic UI should be more functionable is what the OP is saying.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Yeah your right. I was thinking more along the lines of comparing it to other mmo's UI when they first came out and how crappy they were. Then I realized that Funcom should have learned from that as well and put more time into their UI.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
I for the most part concur with this review, nicely written. Finally something with some intelligence. I will however continue my subscription as it's the best thing on the market right now...
I decided to cancel my account as well.
I really had hopes for this game and supported it quite positively on these forums in the past.
I'll watch the game but its not where it needs to be for *me* right now. For others it might be.
The UI.. actually go play Anarchy Online and you'll understand why the UI sucks. I actually like the original UI in AO just fine.. but when they did the UI update... it sucked. I'm not sure where they got their UI people but.. I swear the original EQ1 interface was better.. hard to believe.
I could get over the UI easy enough if the game play was there.
Classes do not seem different enough.. quite often they don't really feel like you improve or advance.
Now my necro.. I loved that because I actually felt "more powerful" as I advanced. Of course I don't think I ever saw another necro playing the way I did but.. hey multiple play styles / feat setups should work. (by that I mean perhaps my style was working better at the time and that's why I wasn't negative about that class.. but various styles/feat builds should work).
*EDIT*
I wanted to edit this in because that last paragraph might not make sense other wise. I played my necro to 70.. and until two patches ago I was using low rank spells. This was due to power cost versus damage increase of next rank. Like Rank 1 vs. Rank 2 .. rank 2 often costs twice as much for.. 7 to 10 more dmg.
Two patches ago they reduced power cost and increased damage of various ranks. This last patch they upgraded some spell damage again.. yes I used PSS a lot in my play style.
*END EDIT*
I could really rantle (that is a rant/ramble combo) on this for a while. Short version is just that I feel this game is still in beta and I mean that MORE than the general MMO release.
HOWEVER..
I could have forgiven all of this if at level 40.. I got to craft and it had been awesome. Even way back to 1997 in UO I loved crafting..
Well at 20 you can harvest and oh boy does that start your introduction to this fun.
5 cotton nodes in this entire zone (an example) and guess what.. they are always empty.. because they are static. Everyone runs aocwayfarer so they know where the nodes are...
Anyway.. I really hope they get this game where it should be (as they did with AO) but with a better UI than either have atm. Then I can come back and try again.
The last thing I want to say is..
Some of the things they are buffing/nerfing seem to be randomly picked off a dart board. Lets lower mana cost on dark templar buffs? I have a DT.. I've never had any mana issue. Sure the class has issues that could have been in this last patch. Mana costs just wasn't one of them..
I don't have ill will toward Funcom.. but I really have to question if they got some crack from the SOE offices on a recent visit or something.
I really wish I could take credit for that article, but unfortunately I found it on the AoC forums posted by someone else. Simply put it hit on so many levels that I had to share. This guy should be a game reviewer.
Waiting for the next thing
the OP pretty much sums up my feelings entirely. In six months this will likely be a excellent MMORPG, problem is I am not willing to pay a monthly fee for those six months.
I miss DAoC
Its a fair assessment and opinion.
but opinions are opinions. I really liked the UI and dislike the WoW UI and don't understand peoples grouching about it at all. the item icons, look and layout are much nicer imo, and anyway UI is never going to break a game for myself.
part I agree most with is the combo paragraph. I know theres spell weaving but the game would be so much better if all spells worked like combos too. at the moment playing casters is too simple, easy and boring just like WoW. where as mele classes are twitchy, fun and challenging, you have to watch your oponant and react, not just press buttons in a certain order like when casting.
Dear Game Developers,
Nerf Rock.
Paper is fine though.
Regards,
Scissors.
If only this could be stickied as an example of how people should strive to post when they open threads with their "reviews".
Great OP.
Here's the original thread the post came from:
forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php
Having played a Necro to 53 before giving the Ranger class a chance. I'm quite surprised the reviewer gave the game the review he or she did. However the 30's are around 4-7 hours of gameplay removed from Tortage. So he didn't suffer all that long.
As it stands now and has been thru beta and release the Necro class is embarrassingly broken and It'll be a while before the class is repaired. They are addressing it patch by patch, and I hope they'll satisfy those customers.
Just in case a future Necro delves into this thead, here's an example of what the reviewer meant when discussing the Necro spell rank design.
You lvl up and are automatically given the upgrade to existing Rank 1 spell.
Rank 1 spell
81 mana 83-111 dmg
Rank 2
180 mana 86-114 dmg
The rank 1 spell had a dmg cap and rank 2 unlocks it and increases as you lvl up until it hits it's ceiling. So looking at the spell rank design it's far more efficient to shelve the rank 2 spell until you lvl up a few more lvls. Considering the Necro's rank 1 spell came @ lvl 1 and his rank 2 was aquired at lvl 16, and then add in the additinal 5 lvl's it'll take for the rank 2 to be significantly greater in power. The AE spells suffered or continue to suffer from this spell upgrade design.
I can certainly understand the many frustrations the customers that chose the Necro class have with spell design only. When you explore the stats, feats, pets and gear it becomes even more depressing for those gamers.
"The combo system is definitely a good thing. It's a thing you can build an entire combat system around, perfect it, and build into a great setting."
I stopped reading right there and rate your review of aoc F- ...
In addition to that, I'd ask about all the UI issue... Note that I've played DAoC since it's release, and nothing got me more frustrated then a stupid UI that EA/Mythic made us use copying from WoW... If you're asking for a better UI, why not making like DAoC used to be, free for you to build up and customize... However the new MMOs won't allow... CoH/CoV has the same issue, you need to use a single UI and that's it... I guess it's a new "standard" that the devs are trying to give us and force us to use... About the release thing, do you think it's better to release a game even not having it finished or release with a 3 years delay and have tons and tons of bugs like LoTRO has? In my opinion release early is better... I really hope that FC manages to fix all the bugs related not on your post but on many others as well... AoC is a great game with an outstanding plot (like DAoC had), and the success or failure will only depend on how FC want's to please it's customers.
The less important thing on your post (note that it's only MY opinion, not pushing anyone to agree with me) is the cost of the game... no clue on how old are you or how much money you make in a month, but 50 bucks for a game that can provide you lots of fun it's cheap...