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Must read for new players or people considering playing WWIIOL

I saw this in another board about WWIIONLINE.  Its a must read.
From Airdemon

Part I: Standing Together or Falling Apart

When you are alone, there is no one to hear you scream. Try to find some buddies in game and play with them. This is perhaps the most important aspect of this game. The reason many players left the game was because they never experienced the thrill of going on a large attack or setting up a massive defensive ambush. This remains rule number one, and if you insist on going it alone you'll find yourself alone or suddenly dead 90% of the time. This is not to say that you can't Lone Wolf it - I do it all the time. But wherever you are, sync up with the other players there. Talk to them. Listen to them. Organize. Get involved. After all, this is a social game and not some Medal of Honor clone! It makes a world of difference.

Remember "Where's the action?" is not a problem if you have 10 buddies with you - you make the action! Or "I just suddenly died for no reason!" is not something team players often say (Well I sometimes say that, but I usually have a squad mate there to giggle and say "That French sapper just pwned you! Didn't have time to warn you.") By the way, in groups you usually have a warning or someone to watch your back, so sudden death out of the blue that you never understand happens rarely.

Also remember that every enemy you are fighting is also playing a social game, and if he (or she?you?d be surprised!) has his comms and cooperation down better than you, even if you outplay and kill him, his buddies will hand you your balls on a platter. It?s brutal at times, and it takes some work, but teamwork is 99% of WWIIOL.

Part II: Patience Never Killed the Cat

Run...die. Run...die. Run...die. We know the FPS routine. WWIIOL, though a FPS with guys running around shooting things, is not anything like DoD, CS, or Rogue Spear. In fact, it?s unlike anything we?ve ever played. The initial impulse to race headlong into battle - a bad habit we picked up in these other games! - is the best way to shorten your life and sabotage your fun in game. Patience is the number one virtue here. Take 5 minutes more to flank around instead of driving full speed down the road. Fire off some rounds then pull back. Never stay in one place for too long. When you see 90% of your men racing blindly to the left, try going right. And always ask this ?What does the other guy think I?ll do?? Then do the exact opposite thing. It works whether you?re in a dogfight, playing sharp shooter, evading armor in large town, or driving to the front. And it?s a guaranteed lifesaver.

Many of our players have left because this was not clear to them or because thoughtful, patient play is not their idea of fun entertainment. If you just didn't figure it out the first time around, here's another chance (see teamwork above to learn how it's done.) Unfortunately, if patient play is just not fun for you, no 'improvements' can be made to the game to make you enjoy it.

And that's fine! Often, we just want the stress-free fun or blowing things up, Rambo style, with none of the frustrations of social interaction or humiliation of failure and futility ? god knows we get enough of that at school and work! There?s no judgment on anyone's part...it's ok if this is not a play style you enjoy. But just give it another chance. Most of us had the same initial reactions, and then grew to love this deliberate style of play. And that's why we're hooked!

Remember unlike single player games where you have an army of clones programmed to die for you, WWIIOL is a very difficult game requiring you to outthink, out-plan, out-communicate, and only then outplay hundreds of other gamers trying to do the same to you. It?s brutal at times and it just may not be for you. No reason to hate this game or it?s dedicated community if that?s the case, since we understand and think no less of you.

Part III: Before you Gamble, Know the Odds

This part is long but critical to understanding WWIIOL.

To enjoy WWIIOL there's a couple things that we always need to keep in mind. First, these weapons were not created to be fair or balanced (in the game or in the real War!) Second, there are times when what we feel should always happen sometimes does not, and other times when what we think should be impossible actually does occurs. These are two critical truths that should be remembered to lower the frustration quotient. Trust me, when I put ten 88 rounds on an A13 at 1000 meters only to have it MG me to death, even I tend to forget!

False Assumptions - What you think you know can kill you.

First, this may be the only game where some things can do NO damage to other things. Not knowing that will lead to frustration and despair. No Spitfire will ever scratch a PIV, a Vic will almost never harm an Axis tank, and - unless you know where to aim and are close - a PII should turn and run away when a Char or Matty approaches. Read up on these weapons and you won't be so surprised when your expectations are violated. Know your chances.

For example, who knew that the Blenheim bomber was rated for aerobatics and has wowed people at air shows? We hear bomber, we think sluggish, but that was not always the case. This was also 1940 (with a 1941 set due out shortly.) That means that heavy armor or big guns were not present on these weapons. Even a Matty or a PIV is a joke compared to later weapons (they?re rated Medium tanks, after all!), so learn how these things perform in their own right, and not based on some abstract assumptions or things you watched on the History Channel (since after all in WWIIOL: Blitzkrieg, we?re playing out a part of WWII that is fairly exotic ? without the US in it, it?s a unique history lesson that we may never get anywhere else.)

In the end it comes down to this ? the enjoyment of having our expectations met. Like anticipating a down beat in a tune, it?s pleasurable to have our entertainment cater to our expectations. Problem is in WWIIOL, unlike other games, our expectations are often wrong, since WWIIOL stresses realism over satisfying assumptions. If it?s big and fairly slow, it doesn?t mean that it packs a killer punch or is super heavily armored (e.g. Stug.) If it?s fast and small, it doesn?t mean it?s powerless or unarmored. An R35 and Vic are about the same size. The 35 can kill a tank, the Vic has no chance. R35 slow, Vic fast. R35 more armored than an A13 (which is bigger and faster) but the Vic - which is the size of an R35 - dies to rifle fire! Before we indict the game for not living up to our expectations, we should try to mature those expectations and understand that we may be playing the game based on ?rules? that are incorrect.

Battlefield Statistics - Why 1+1 does not always equal 2 in WWIIOL

Even with an understanding of the ?pieces? on this game board, we also need to understand how they interact. We all know that an 88 should kill a lightly armored A13. But since this game has modeled the exact interaction of munitions and armor, we can get some surprising results. There?s an urge to think in terms of other games ? if you keep pounding it, or running at it, you will eventually be rewarded. But remember that there are no hit points here. A zero percent chance of doing something will always be zero even after a million attempts meaning you did NO damage. And a 99% of doing something will sometimes still fail even after 20 attempts.

It?s a bit like flipping a coin. Just because you got 5 heads in a row, does not mean you?ll get a tail the next time even though it feels like you should. And that?s assuming a 50/50 chance! At some angles, a 90% chance to penetrate armor becomes 0%, meaning that if I keep shooting that A13 in the same spot with an 88, each extra shot still has no chance to kill it and I could be there for 10 years and never kill it even though at any closer range, at any other angle, it would die in one shot.

And that?s not all. The same holds true in reverse. At some times, with the perfect coordination of factors the impossible can happen. A round leaving a barrel ?hot? at a slightly higher velocity, a flush shot at zero deflection, a soft spot in the armor, a stray round traveling thought multiple layers of armor, all these things can interact in an instant to create a totally unlikely result. That?s not a bug. It?s an amazing feature that captures the chaotic, at times bizarre, and always intriguing behavior of weapons in action. Our grandfathers lived it and have stories of planes returning to base with hundreds of bullet holes, and a shredded engine. Or guys getting shot in the hand and dropping down dead. Or grenades landing inches away from 5 guys and all living. Or a bullet finding it?s way into a view port and killing an invincible tank. Shait happens ? and WWIIOL simulates that exhilarating, uncanny, and, yes, at times disturbing quality of

Part IV: Defection as Patriotism

In any contest, there are some awful but very human things that tend to happen. We come to very quickly hate and dehumanize the enemy. It happens in war, it happens in WWIIOL. We see our victories as deserved and out losses as stolen. We attribute skill and heroism to our wins (wins that often have more to do with numbers or technological domination) and indict our enemies of dishonor and cheating for our losses. It happened in the War. And it happens here.

The best way to love your side is to defect. Often. Understand that the Axis or the French/British are only ? of the game. And use this basic rule of thumb ? until you?ve walked a mile in the other guy?s shoes, you have no right and no foundation from which to comment on their skills, organization, or weapons. Repeat after me ? talk about what you know and keep uninformed opinions to yourself. Much that you?ll see in game and on these forums are opinions in search of intelligence. Earn your intelligence and thus right to have an informed opinion.

And whatever you do, have empathy. Understand that every guy you killed tired hard to win. He?s you in another context. Be horrified and exhilarated that you took so much goodness and effort and brought it to a violent end. That?s war ? a brotherhood of men on opposing sides of the line slaughtering each other in a communion of emotional intensity and shared fear. The best warriors love their enemy. If you can?t do that, you?ll always be a pawn

Part V: Conclusions on Living a Soldier's Life - Why being a Hero does not mean being a Winner

At this point, I have to get a bit emotional and academic. Most of the impatient have already left this thread. WWIIOL is not for them. So this is a special treat for you who have the patience and understanding to live non-MTV lives. This section summarizes the core insights implied above, insights that define the WWIIOL experience.

Video games (and all of our society) have trained us that if you stick with it you can win in the end. That the few can defeat the many. That if you are a small guy, you can beat a big guy if you persist and slowly wear him down. That if you perfect your individual skills, you can overcome any social barriers. Sadly, this is often not true in the world, and definitely not true in war.

War is brutal. War at it?s heart is unfair. In war the guy with the better weapon will almost always defeat the guy with the weaker weapon, regardless of skill. Huge numbers of the unskilled will always slaughter a small number of the talented. Having a big heart and great aim means nothing at these times.

That?s tough. Single player games reinforce the myth of the heroic individual persevering and always winning despite the odds. But in WWIIOL, the bigger and more unlikely your triumph, the more profound and humiliating the other guy?s defeat. And that means that in WWIIOL, as in war and as in life in general, being heroic has nothing to do with winning. It?s a not even a zero sum game - it?s much more tragic than that. The guy who killed you after your heroic struggles to survive, performing amazing acts of daring and skill, will move on thinking nothing more of it. That means that in WWIIOL, the tragedies far outnumber the triumphs.

Think about that ? every guy you kill is a story coming to a violent end. That story could have begun 3 towns back and two hours ago. But with the pull of a trigger, you?ve ended that story. Forever. But we never dwell on that. ?EA down. EA dead. EI taken out.? Our kills are trivial. Our deaths are tragic.

And that?s why war is such a profoundly negative experience. The winners experience nowhere near as much joy as the losers experience pain. And that?s why in WWIIOL the negative experiences will be broadcasted orders of magnitude louder than the successes, simply because the lucky and victorious have no idea how much they have accomplished and how much pain they have dealt out.

Think final scene of Saving Private Ryan. We?ve been following Tom Hanks for 3 hours on his amazing journey. The German Private sees none of it ? he aims, shoots, and moves on to the next target. Our hero is dead. But his slayer has no idea what he?s done (or that he?s killed the man responsible for his life!) That German was not better than Hanks. Not more deserving. And the sorrow we feel for the death of the hero is not matched even a bit by the joy of his enemy ? the enemy felt nothing.

True heroes, like our grandfathers in WWII, knew that chance, numbers, and unfair advantages had as much or more to do with who will win as skill, courage, and determination. Sometimes, it?s hopeless. Think about that ? in WWIIOL, sometimes no matter what you do, you cannot win. That violates a central premise of games and populist entertainment in general. That violates a central Western understanding of life in general.

But that?s war. And WWIIOL, unlike any other entertainment product out there, simulates war. War is ugly. War is brutal. War is unfair. And for every ?hero? there are thousands of equally deserving men who got nothing but a bullet in the face, to die in a puddle in the corner of some foreign field.

No one wants to be the ?extra? in a war movie, dying in the first minute of the film from some stray bullet. But someone has to be, and in WWIIOL we all take turns being that guy. No one wants to drive for 30 minutes from the rear, being selfless to help their side, only to die suddenly from a dive bomber that was lucky enough to find them. But it happened in all wars. And it happens in WWIIOL. No one wants to defend a town certainly doomed to fall, but true heroes did in WWII and true heroes do in WWIIOL.

To be a hero is to come to terms with living out a soldier?s story. A soldier sacrifices, fighting without hope, struggling without reward. A soldier dies meaningless deaths. But a true soldier has made peace with that. A true soldier is resigned and lives every moment as his last, because it could be. A true hero empathizes with his enemy, and respects the fact that he?s just destroyed the lived experience of his fallen foe, and thus feels no hatred when it becomes his turn to die.

Many of us are not made for this. We want our entertainment simple. WWIIOL is not that kind of entertainment.

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Comments

  • hulons1hulons1 Member Posts: 74
    Nice post. If they start another trial run I'll give it a try.

  • DrakolusDrakolus Member UncommonPosts: 134

    As far as I know there is a couple of free trials going right now.  Check out www.wwiionline.com and look in the upper right hand corner. 

    Degen (www.razorbacks2.com)

  • hulons1hulons1 Member Posts: 74
    Yep, as soon as I read this post I checked out some other threads and came across a couple of mentions of a trial. I had checked a few months back and didn't see one. I'll give it a shot.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    The difference between philosiphy and physics:


    One actually went to school and learned something.

  • manohunmanohun Member Posts: 158

    many ppl play this game

    there are about 15-20000 subscribers and all on the same server :)))

    image
    The only Hungarian squad in WWII Online
    image
    HUN HQ: http://www.wwiionline.hu

  • manohunmanohun Member Posts: 158


    Originally posted by beatbox
    Originally posted by manohun
    many ppl play this game
    there are about 15-20000 subscribers and all on the same server :)))WWIIOnline never had more than around 14-15k paying suscribers. There never was more than
    3000-4000 in the server at the same time. Noobs replace the vets who left to never return. BETA TESTED : Everything
    Currently playing : IL-2 FB AEP, OFP
    Waiting for : EQ2 , D&DO, MEO, DNL

    There are thousands of new ppl with this freetrial...

    image
    The only Hungarian squad in WWII Online
    image
    HUN HQ: http://www.wwiionline.hu

  • manohunmanohun Member Posts: 158

    im in the HQ Admin team so i know the numbers. You can look me up in the Playskool forums and see.

    image
    The only Hungarian squad in WWII Online
    image
    HUN HQ: http://www.wwiionline.hu

  • BrasidusBrasidus Member Posts: 3

    ROFL!

    Beatb0x, one of the most banned people on the WWIIOL forums and known cheater there calling other people liars.  Glad I hopped in to check out the forums today.

  • wlfmanwlfman Member Posts: 90
    Ahhh Beatbox, so glad you crawled out of your hole to start posting here again. We all missed you so. image

    www.razorbacks-squad.com


    image

    www.razorbacks-squad.com


    image

  • manohunmanohun Member Posts: 158

    So u who dont even play this game know the truth, but me who has a direct contact with CRS know nothing and lie :)

    Thx for the good laugh :)

    image
    The only Hungarian squad in WWII Online
    image
    HUN HQ: http://www.wwiionline.hu

  • fastgreygtfastgreygt Member Posts: 10

    I tried the free trial... didn't like it as it became quickly apparent there were some players using hacks so their vision wouldn't be obscured by tree flora, including walls that could be penetrated by weapons fire.

    In one scenerio there was a tank 100s of meters away from a firebase, hidden behind several layers of tree flora, camping an infantry spawn, completely obscured from anyones vision, but somhow managed to gun every single one of us down no matter which direction we ran or crawled out of the firebase.

    It appeared, when this tank ran out of ammo, he despawned, cause none of us ever saw him, only saw his tracer bullets flying thru several layers of the tree flora hitting us perfectly.

    It's unfortunate cause I was kinda enjoying myself.

  • SlamenSlamen Member Posts: 218

    Hey Fastgreygt,

    Did you know, you can go to the records pages at  http://csr.wwiionline.com and look up the person who you think might be hacking by finding the mission details.  All of your mission logs are saved which lists people you killed or the person who killed you on a per mission basis.

    If you feal that it was a hack, go in game and post a ".report" and state what went on.  The .report messages gets to CRS and they can then monitor that player.  You can also email CRS at gophur@playnet.com with the same information.

    In all my time in WWIIOL, I have yet found a person running a hack (I'm excluding gama tweekers).  Not like yesterday while I was playing Call of Duty where I found this one guy who would get 20/3 kill ratio above everyone else.  I followed that guy around and he was definetly running a hack shooting unseen people through walls.  The server was running punkbuster too. 

    Later

    EDIT: Oh I forgot, about a year ago, I read reports of someone with a speed hack, but it didn't last too long.

     

  • hardcasehardcase Member Posts: 367
    Not a hack. Only the trunks of trees will stop rounds. He was firing probably with some infantry correcting him. I think you will find no one is running hacks. Most code is on the host and they have code in place to find hacks. The speed hack will cause the front end to crash to desktop and that hasn't been seen in a couple of years. You might think about trying it since other than the perceived hacks was your only complaint. Firing thru walls....if you lie down, your feet can show thru the walls and you will die. If you spwn in and lag a little you can show thru walls and die. I think thet tracers textures are showing inside. You can die when EI fire upward from downstairs. There are new Dept builders in yesterdays patch that may help with that problem. Rounds thru walls are not a hack merely a bug.

  • RaikuRaiku Member Posts: 37

    Hm is this an RPG?

  • DemariiDemarii Member Posts: 131

    There is another possibility, and that is that the tank was in a position that let him see through the foliage or over the foliage with a commander or something. I do it all the time actually I drive in tight to some bushes and then I very slowly move until my gun or commander gives me a good view. That is one of the beautiful things about this game you can actually use foliage very well especially if you hide inside layers of it, from a distance you look covered but when your right up close you can see through a little swaying/blowing passage of foliage.

    Hacking isn't too active in this game, they tend to get caught pretty quick, same with exploiters and if they loose their account to hacking have fun getting another one. It is much more likely you were getting schooled by some vet's, and I doubt there was just one, if that was the case there is no way you can cover all angles to a depot, a little smoke, and a plan and your out in no time.

    Raiku, it is a RPG in the sense that all the players are playing the roles of soldiers in a war. There are squads who roleplay their characters, but most play it like a first-person-shooter or simulation, so there is no distintion between IC/OOC. There is experience gain and rank increase which gives one access to some equipment and abilties, but essentiall this game is all about your own skills with the weapons you fight with. You can be a complete Noob and kill a 3 year vet if your lucky enough to get the drop on him. Very likely though its the vet who drops the noob, which can make this game a difficult one to get good at, you spend alot of your early time dying. Its all about patience aand moving slowly and carefully.

  • manusmanus Member Posts: 46



    Originally posted by manohun

    im in the HQ Admin team so i know the numbers. You can look me up in the Playskool forums and see.


    Even being in the HQ admin crew does not give you acess to the numbers and if you had it CRS doesn`t allow anybody to go public with the numbers,so why are you claiming that WWIIOL has 15k subs?-they even removed the balance graph with the new one which doesn`t tell you the inbalance due to whining on the forums...

    Since your posting this,can you show any sources that says that WWIIOL has 15k subscribers, because sirbruces own graph with his study on mmorpgs suggest even less subscribers and he has invested alot of money into CRS in the early days.

    I play european times most of the time,having hard trouble finding any good action(meaning action with more than 30 both sides or 64limit even kicking in..) until us players starts logging on after work. Only numbers people have to work is the ones on the statspage counting sorties by axis & allied players online which in most cases can be as low as 100people online. and peak around 600players but sure you can find that out on your own since you know how many plays WWIIOL...

    Yes,WWIIOL is a great game, but it is lacking in several regards just to mention some which people keep forgetting mentioning; horrible keymapper,UI and an extreme learning curve for new players.Thankfully ch.99 came along.

    The latest patch have given new hope and I think North Africa with terrain two and the new UI will give this game the players it need to make it tremendous because this being just player against player it needs more players to work better with the waste terrain in it.

  • manohunmanohun Member Posts: 158



    Originally posted by manus



    Originally posted by manohun

    im in the HQ Admin team so i know the numbers. You can look me up in the Playskool forums and see.




    Even being in the HQ admin crew does not give you acess to the numbers and if you had it CRS doesn`t allow anybody to go public with the numbers,so why are you claiming that WWIIOL has 15k subs?-they even removed the balance graph with the new one which doesn`t tell you the inbalance due to whining on the forums...
    Since your posting this,can you show any sources that says that WWIIOL has 15k subscribers, because sirbruces own graph with his study on mmorpgs suggest even less subscribers and he has invested alot of money into CRS in the early days.




    No you, misunderstood me. I ment i now the numbers of the recent newcomers, not the exact numbers but a close estimate, cause we are the guys who deal with the newcomers on our websites. So sorry but english is not my first language.

    image
    The only Hungarian squad in WWII Online
    image
    HUN HQ: http://www.wwiionline.hu

  • manusmanus Member Posts: 46


    Originally posted by manohun
    No you, misunderstood me. I ment i now the numbers of the recent newcomers, not the exact numbers but a close estimate, cause we are the guys who deal with the newcomers on our websites. So sorry but english is not my first language.

    Well english aint my first language either,
    I`m not here to pic on you but to say WWIIOL have as many as 15k subs are just BS.
    The total kills pr day are less than the total number your saying closer to half. but still less most of the time.


    The only tools that CRS have given us to calculate numbers from their statpage and out from there people made tools that says how many players average are on to any given hour which is the closest thing to the real numbers you will get.I won`t mention any specific numbers.

    WWIIOL is a good/ok game but just don`t see why people need to lie about it..

    sincerly Manus

  • hardcasehardcase Member Posts: 367
    Subscribers to an online game are never the number online at any one time. 15k@12.99 is approximately 200k a month. Salaries,Facilities, Insurance, ISP cost, hardware. I would not be surprised if the number of subscribers is greater than 15k.

  • manusmanus Member Posts: 46

    [quote]Originally posted by hardcase
    [b]Subscribers to an online game are never the number online at any one time. [email=15k@12.99] is approximately 200k a month. Salaries,Facilities, Insurance, ISP cost, hardware. I would not be surprised if the number of subscribers is greater than 15k.

    [/b][/quote]

    jeez,not my claim either or my point,if you look at sirbruces study you will see that the total of subscribers is about 12k if I remember correctly..

    My point is that during most hours zept some of the few hours of US players this game is in lack of players and the fact is anyone logging onto the game from 11am to 19pm GMT+1 will notice very little happening along the front and max 3-5 towns contested out of 50 along the frontline and just 1 propably got a decent attack going.and i bet even the hours of my example can be extended to propably be the case for most of the hours of the day except the weekends.

    And worst part you can`t prove me wrong on it-heck I`d be happy if you could.

    just so you can see this is sirbruce study:

    http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce2/Subscriptions3.gif

  • SlamenSlamen Member Posts: 218
    just bumping this to the front page for others to read.
  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953
    The last thing CRS did that was positive to gameplay was attrition, that was two years ago.  Everything else is fluff, nonsense, unecessary, doesnt add to gameplay or is just plain wierd.
  • DemariiDemarii Member Posts: 131

    Oh ya, definately, I mean just off the top of my head I can think of a piloe of Ninsense, Fluff, and Completely useless stuff they've added....

    - Fallback, Hold At All Costs, Overrun. changed how attacks functioned and were defended against.
    - New foliage and the addition of berms sure did alot to the game both visual and as far as changing gameplay especially for the infantry its alot easier to move around and avoid tanks or enemy fire if you know what your doing.
    - Visual Damage all vehicles were slowly remodelled so many key components could be destroyed for various effect. So much useless fluff there I tell ya.
    - Rifle Grenades, Anti Tank Rifles for the Infantry have added some new elements to how infantry fight their battles against both infantry and tanks.
    - 3rd person infantry noises, no more having people run up behind you in silience to knife you in the back.
    - Gave infantry the ability to lean around corners. I guess its just another piece of fluff but I know most of the infantry thought it was a huge addition to their control abilities.
    - And not to be outdone, another major Infantry improvement was "Adjustable Sights" a small addition to the game which has made a huge impact on ones ability to fight your opponent and adds another skill factor to the mix.
    - Blowing and Rebuilding of Brigdes can slow or halt and attack and has become a vital part planning your fight in any town with Bridges in or around it.
    - New Map with options, scrollable, updating, zoom in/out saves as we prefer it, extremely useful compared to the old one. As someone who flies ALOT I can attest the new map is huge advancement for me, I no longer need to have an out of game map pulled up to referrance cities which I use partly to navigate and coordinate with.
    - Attack Objectives in the last few months have completely altered how battles run, its not perfect but its just a stepping stone on the way to Brigades and Table of Equipment and full maneuver warfare.
    - A pile of new 3D Buildings which have slowly been replacing the old 2D ones, alot of which have multiple stories and ways to enter or fire into or out of has probably been the biggest addition/change to how/where the infantry fight in towns or cities. The Forward bases just get their rework and are now much defendable and appropriate looking for a field base. And thats just 2 structures out of nearly a dozen that have changed the ground war.
    - New High Command functions and control from the field all the way up to the top Commander in Chief who determines what our development tree and resources will be, and that brings up another major addition made in the last 2 years which is slowly starting to grow into a major important part of the overall war effort, Research, Deployment and Production is now automated and more refineable so there is alot less of that feeling like every campaign is playing out just like the other. In fact in the last 6 or so campaigns I've noticed theyve played out completely differently from the ground events, to the equipment releases, to the bombing and their effect on each side.

    Sorry Nerf09 your welcome to your opinion of course, but I just can't agree with your view that all the stuff added in the last 2 years or so, of which this is only a small list off the top of my head were just Useless Fluff, which had no affect on Gameplay or just wierd additions which made no sense in where this game is going. As I see it there is alot of meat in that stuff, it all has its own effect on the gameplay some small some huge some across the board, others just for certain branches of the military. And all of it has a great deal of importance when considered all together, they are all important aspects of advancing the gameplay towards a stronger more immersive and detailed wargame simulator.

    Just my opinion, but I think your way off base as usual bro.


  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953



    Originally posted by Demarii

    Oh ya, definately, I mean just off the top of my head I can think of a piloe of Ninsense, Fluff, and Completely useless stuff they've added....
    -1 Fallback, Hold At All Costs, Overrun. changed how attacks functioned and were defended against.
    -2 New foliage and the addition of berms sure did alot to the game both visual and as far as changing gameplay especially for the infantry its alot easier to move around and avoid tanks or enemy fire if you know what your doing.
    -3 Visual Damage all vehicles were slowly remodelled so many key components could be destroyed for various effect. So much useless fluff there I tell ya.
    -4 Rifle Grenades, Anti Tank Rifles for the Infantry have added some new elements to how infantry fight their battles against both infantry and tanks.
    -5 3rd person infantry noises, no more having people run up behind you in silience to knife you in the back.
    -6 Gave infantry the ability to lean around corners. I guess its just another piece of fluff but I know most of the infantry thought it was a huge addition to their control abilities.
    -7 And not to be outdone, another major Infantry improvement was "Adjustable Sights" a small addition to the game which has made a huge impact on ones ability to fight your opponent and adds another skill factor to the mix.
    -8 Blowing and Rebuilding of Brigdes can slow or halt and attack and has become a vital part planning your fight in any town with Bridges in or around it.
    -9 New Map with options, scrollable, updating, zoom in/out saves as we prefer it, extremely useful compared to the old one. As someone who flies ALOT I can attest the new map is huge advancement for me, I no longer need to have an out of game map pulled up to referrance cities which I use partly to navigate and coordinate with.
    -10 Attack Objectives in the last few months have completely altered how battles run, its not perfect but its just a stepping stone on the way to Brigades and Table of Equipment and full maneuver warfare.
    -11 A pile of new 3D Buildings which have slowly been replacing the old 2D ones, alot of which have multiple stories and ways to enter or fire into or out of has probably been the biggest addition/change to how/where the infantry fight in towns or cities. The Forward bases just get their rework and are now much defendable and appropriate looking for a field base. And thats just 2 structures out of nearly a dozen that have changed the ground war.
    -12 New High Command functions and control from the field all the way up to the top Commander in Chief who determines what our development tree and resources will be, and that brings up another major addition made in the last 2 years which is slowly starting to grow into a major important part of the overall war effort, Research, Deployment and Production is now automated and more refineable so there is alot less of that feeling like every campaign is playing out just like the other. In fact in the last 6 or so campaigns I've noticed theyve played out completely differently from the ground events, to the equipment releases, to the bombing and their effect on each side.
    Sorry Nerf09 your welcome to your opinion of course, but I just can't agree with your view that all the stuff added in the last 2 years or so, of which this is only a small list off the top of my head were just Useless Fluff, which had no affect on Gameplay or just wierd additions which made no sense in where this game is going. As I see it there is alot of meat in that stuff, it all has its own effect on the gameplay some small some huge some across the board, others just for certain branches of the military. And all of it has a great deal of importance when considered all together, they are all important aspects of advancing the gameplay towards a stronger more immersive and detailed wargame simulator.
    Just my opinion, but I think your way off base as usual bro.




    1)  Fallback works backwards, it should be renamed fall-foward.  HAAC is there to feed the tanks camping the AB spawns, and Overrun happens on all atttacks above 2 infantry and a parachuting dog.

    2)  Half of the new foliage is turned off because it puts you at a disadvantage.  That part was a marketing tecnique not to be used in the game.

    3)  When the rats did visual damage they tinkered with the damage model making cannons obsolete and 50 calibur tank penetrating rounds.  They nerfed me 109, get it get it get it Nerf09.  HA!  Other wierd things with the damage model:   http://noobclue.com/BlenWolf.avi and http://noobclue.com/Panrider.avi

    4)  Rifle grenades are just another frag-0-weapon, doesnt add to the non-existant tactical depth of the game.  The brit heat riflegrenades are very innefective against tanks, so no change in the paradigm there.

    5)  3rd person infantry noises added a new problem, tanks that are buttoned up can hear infantry sneaking up on a tank from 40 feet away.

    6)  Infantry lean is broken, you cant hold a lean more then a second most of the time.

    7)  Adjustable sights dont even show movement of the adjustable sights on the gun model.  It just gives  text readout, easilly forgotten in the heat of battle where your sights are set at.

    8)  Blowing up bridges is a useless gesture when you can TELEPORT ALL equipment past the bridge via Foward Base.

    9)  A new tool for airquakers.  I bet your an allied player.

    10)  "You think airquake is bad now, wait for AO's."  I said that 9 months ago.

    11)  Yeah your right those new structures have impacted gameplay allot.  Since 99.9% of the fighting takes place in front of a spawn.  All that countryside is a big time-sink anyways.

    12)  The HC wouldnt know tactics if it jumped up and bit them in the ***.  All they are capable of doing is forming up tanks, wasting players time by eventually getting wasted by 3 defending AT guns.  I've seen more common sense from 9 year old CR5's from Planetside.

  • DemariiDemarii Member Posts: 131

    1) Don't blame the game for the players limited idea of how a battle should run there are squads out there who do it other ways and are effective. Stop expecting the game to cater to you and start looking at how to work and maneuver within the current constraints of the game.

    2) What are you talking about, the max distance thing? Factor for it, understand the difference between an impermanent piece of visual and real cover, use the real cover to hide in and turn on/off the rest as you like. No brainer there buddy.

    3) I'm not even going to get into that discussion its been so beaten to death its glue by now. Suffice it to say in games you learn what works, whats effective you develop tactics and skills that are called "Winning strategies" learn the game. There's thousands of players out there who can and do get kills everyday because we take the time to figure out what works and do that while we wait for things to change allowing us to come up with more things that work. The wonkiness you believe you see is a matter of perspective, namely that what you see is very basic they can't show us every detail of damage for every shot that lands all we see is when we hit, and every time its a great big puff of smoke but that puff doesn't tell us what or howmuch damage it did, and not until we reach a critical threshold point will the game tell us its damaged to a point, hence the reason we have one size of gas or oil or coolant leak even though the hole could be a pinprick it always looks like a large one. Nobody thinks its perfect but its all they can do right now, they actually have to deal with bandwidth limitations of sending damage info to thousands of players constantly, mabye one day it'll get better and more refined, but honestly I don't really care because I know the limitations of the current system and I know enough to have learned how to kill my opponents without relying on visual feedback as my only guage as to how they doing. If I blast a 110's wing to heck and it looks fine but he's flying a little slower and that wing is slightly lower or sagging down or he's tending to turn to that side guess what... its pretty messed up, a few more shots and it'll like give out. Not exactly brain surgery there, just fill in the blanks really. Argh, didn't I say I wasn't gonna get into this one... anyways....

    4) And I'll introduce you to players who will show you those weapons do work in many different ways and situations. Just because they aren't a nuke warhead on a stick doesn't mean they are useful weapons in their own right, they are only as effective as the methods you employ for thier use.

    5) Thats a joke, or it better be... ok first if your flat out running at a tank he might hear you at 20meters if its dead silent around. But "Sneaking" up on a tank I can get right up to one piss on his treads and then sap the bugger without him knowing. So basically I can't full on sprint up to a tank? Should I be able to, mabye I don't know I've never sat in a tank and listened for live infantry running up, but once again we come to the same old adage... KNOW THE GAME! You know they can hear you sprinting up so within 20m you slow down, within 10m you walk, within 1m you are crouched or crawling, what is so bloody terrible here, just deal with what you gotta do its not like its mission impossible here buddy.

    6) Yes you can it just doesn't like to see you clipping near things, back up a step and you can hold it for a decent period heck I've sat leaned for minutes on end, you can't lean when your pushed up against a wall, I'm not sure why it is but... uh oh... here it comes again. KNOW THE GAME! Take a minute and try things out, if you didn't realize you could lean indefinately just by not leaning right up on a wall then you never really tried to learn how to use lean effectively you tried it a few times and got so discusted it wasn't exactly what you wanted or expected you decided it sucked and you never learned how effective it could be. Could it be better, I'm sure it could just about anything can be if you have the time and motive, but its hardly what your making it into. btw people moving past you will often break your lean as well, again not sure why just something I learned, don't lean in a busy hallway.

    7) So basically because they thought it would be best to give us the functionality of adjustable sights because we as infantry players really wanted them, and they don't have the time or technology to put it in with 100% graphical representation they are useless? Thats just lame, I don't care if I can see the adjustment in battle, all I care about is that I know my target is 400m out and I set my rifle to 400m aim directly at him I'll hit, no more guess work about how much high I need to lean into my shot. Thats whats important and I think you'd find most any infantry will tell you the same, if the alternative is waiting many more months for the 100% finished deal. You sure its really fluf your worried about, because graphics are fluff bud, its function thats important.

    8) There you go again you are thinking about it in one context and believing that somehow makes it completely useless. The only way your comment makes any sense is if you blow up a bridge to a town but you don't have the Field Base to that town, and your right they can still get supplies to that Base even with the bridge down through automatic system events, a mere limitation of the fact that KFS1 created the supply system before he wrote in the ability to blow the bridges, wow how simple was that one to figure out, and I'm guessing if you asked him nicely he'd toss in the ability to check for to be added to the dev "to do" list if he didn't have any reservations or reasons why it wouldn't work. But the point I would really like to get to here is that a blown bridge is important when you want to control direct access across it, if your defending your town your should think about dropping the Field Base attacking it before you worry about dropping the bridge from that town. I agree it would be nice but its more important that we can now stop armor from crossing bridges in the middle of attacks, and if you asked me wether I would rather have bridges as they are now, or what many more months until KFS1 could take the time to tie bridge state to FB supplies and then push that extra functionality through BETA before getting any of it I'd honestly have to say I can live with them being mostly useful under attacking conditions and not defending ones. Good try though, I like the effort.

    9) Oh good lord get a grip please! Yes I fly in the game alot, I enjoy flying in this game and its not on the deck strafing squishies I'm generally well over 10,000 feet hunting Luftwaffe. I"m Spitdweeb playing in easy mode with uber E-retaining pantytron... yada yada... not going to get into, I see enough of that drivel in the Playschool hangar.

    10) You want a cookie or something? All of us serious fliers saw it coming, there was no mystery there either... Its bad because the ground commanders have tunnel vision about what air support is and because the air force doesn't currently control its own resources. Air Quank is a direct result of ground forces for either side sending some of their boys back to an Airfield to fly them out and provide a rather comical farce they think is called Close Air Support, there are ways to deal with the situation but requires knowing more about flying then just go there and yank and bank till someone dies. We're back to the problem where the players are dictating the methods they use to get things done but instead of other players coming up with methods which might require some effort and coordination to counter it, its much easier to blame the game then it is to blame ourselves the community.

    The Airforces for all sides are mere shell of what they once were. They are mostly constituted by casual pilots now who are actually more into the ground war which is why they fly on the deck and strafe ground targets, they are doing what their ground unit wants them to do. Its not exactly impossible to stop them, in fact a skilled group of pilots who know their stuff would pick their CAS apart without breaking a sweat. Nothing magical there and it bugs me too as you can tell from this paragraph, but I"m seriously tired of trying to motivate people to fly and fight the airwar with something resembling tactics, its a dog eat dog world until people decide they want to try to learn something more, until then I'll be just fine scraping a living honing my skills from the High Altitudes fighting against the few others who have any skill to be up doing it too...

    And one day when the game changes as it always does, and some of the casual pilots are going to be called on to protect a formation of bombers to target and they realize they can't just dive to the deck and hide in Flak cover leaving their bombers in fact they'll come to the hard conclusion that you can't even Yank and Bank otherwise your bombers leave you behind to get bounced by the next group they'll realize to their dismay that there is ALOT more to Air Combat then yanking and banking, and they'll be several years in training and practice behind those who stuck to it and fly high and smart every time they go up, pilot who have learned how to fight going up and down, over here and over there instead of just around and around in a circle. No skin off my nose seriously I am not threatened in the slightest by those 10,000 feet below me who don't have enough sense to realize the position they are in, and I'm certainly done trying to convince players otherwise, not worth my breath, but I figured your an intelligent fellow you'll understand and catch right on to what I'm talking about, don't ya?

    So now you know how I feel about the air war. =) But why complain about it, the players will have to make their minds up for themselves. Thats the Reality, Its not a problem of the game they'll do what they want no matter how you try to stop them or make it too difficult. Unless of course your holding back on some brilliant idea for how to turn the whole thing around and have everyone doing it in a fun and realistic way that keeps them interested in flying high and as a team rather then lonewolfing on the ground, sorta like what RDP was supposed to do but didn't but like I said its not about the game, its about the players, they'll do what they like, you have to convince them that they'll like doing that... so how?

    11) Actually I've found that battles have begin to move out into the fields alot more since the visual limits got increased. I'd really like to see it become way more prevalent and I honestly don't see mobile spawning doing it, the only thing that is going to do it is when we get true maneuver warfare, we they drop the whole linky no cappy. But I guess we just got to wait until that day comes and play with what we got for now, its not perfect but I definately have been enjoying the new buildings, something is better then nothing. Right?

    12) I really don't get that last one, you know honestly I wouldn't fault you little bit about that comment. Heck I watched a large AHC formation of tanks spend a good 2 hours getting to a battle only to get wiped out because they didn't have sense to get an infantry division to meet them at the target and support them. It was stupid, but how does that make the fact that HC's are getting more in game tools, will eventually have less out of game duties and functions and hopefully in time those who do strive to be leaders, or display good leadership and tactics/strategy in the field will be given access to those tools and thus move the game further into being a real warsim. And its not like all HC guys are bad, its not like all HC attacks are a waste of time and resources. They make mistakes like all of us, my point was HC is getting more support and tools in the game and thats a huge plus. Trust me coming from someone who is on his second term in the AHC I like the new tools it DOES help coordination and communication and hopefully it will make leading missions easy in the future as well. But I guess I really don't see your point here other then to use my point and staging ground to launch your own personal critique of the HC's abilties. Which is fine, but it doesn't make it any more valid then my own critique or anyone elses, and it has absolutely nothing to do with wether the new HC functions are useless or affect gameplay.

    Thanks for the reply looking forward to your next batch. =)

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