I really don't have an opinion on the matter but I'm always a little surprised by the American mentality. In my country we had a lack of gun control which culminated in a severe massacre over a decade ago, when a madman got his hands on some semiautomatic weapons. After that happened there was great public outcry for gun control and the government at the time implemented a very strict gun control program. I don't know the exact policy but I think semi/automatic weapons of any type were banned out right and the number of rifles you could own was limited. You also had to be licensed for different types of guns e.g. rifle license to hold and own a rifle at your property only for farmers and all guns were registered. As a result hundreds of thousands of fire arms had to be confiscated. There was a minority of protesters mainly farmers including my grandfather but even the majority of the protesters believed something had to be done they were just upset by the severity of the new laws. Ten years on I don't think many people even notice the gun control laws. there has however been a large decrease in gun crime and never been any kind of mass shooting since, gun crimes are very rare. Just surprising that given the huge number of massacres that have taken place in the US and the large number of gun crimes that occur every year that most people don't want stricter gun controls. Obviously farmers can still use rifles them and there are always shooting ranges, what else do you need them for if they take most of them off the streets? p.s. whats the deal with Americans being paranoid about their federal government and communists? I swear half of you think red dawn happened. sorry to all non US Americans by the way, just easier to refer to people form the US as Americans.
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but you know one of the first things enacted by Hitler before he turned Germany into the Nazi regime? He had the citizens turn in all their weapons first, in the name of peace. Don't worry, the government is here to protect you. So you don't need weapons. So he said......
I don't see the relevance to be honest unless you think there is any chance of US becoming a dictatorship in the future if stricter gun control was implemented. In which case you have little faith in your nation's government and its citizens. Anyway whatever gun control laws Hitler may have put in place had little to do with his rise to power. He came to power by abusing the political system and making the German populace believe Germany could be a great nation again. By the time Hitler openly subjugated the minorities a huge majority was supportive of this move.
Furthermore I don't understand how a document written over 200 years ago in a totally different social/political/economic climate is not ever considered for amendment due to fear of change. Especially considering the climate the constitution was written in. I guess it is not surprising however the United States is one of the most nationalistic countries in the world these days.
On a final note I've never understood why people hunt. sure I can imagine it would be fun to hunt but I think I would feel pretty guilty killing an animal for no reason. I do think hunting for food,safety or population control is totally reasonable though killing for enjoyment is just so sadistic.
I don't see the relevance to be honest unless you think there is any chance of US becoming a dictatorship in the future if stricter gun control was implemented. In which case you have little faith in your nation's government and its citizens. Anyway whatever gun control laws Hitler may have put in place had little to do with his rise to power. He came to power by abusing the political system and making the German populace believe Germany could be a great nation again. By the time Hitler openly subjugated the minorities a huge majority was supportive of this move. Of course we don't trust our government. Our country was founded on the principle to not trust your government. That is why we have certain rights that other countries do not give their citizens. We have an inate distrust of the establishment. Furthermore I don't understand how a document written over 200 years ago in a totally different social/political/economic climate is not ever considered for amendment due to fear of change. Especially considering the climate the constitution was written in. I guess it is not surprising however the United States is one of the most nationalistic countries in the world these days. People still refer to and base beliefs on the Magna Carta. Good ideas are good ideas no matter how old they are. The Constitution is a good sound document that many many lives have been given to defend throughout history. Why should we change what works?
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I don't see the relevance to be honest unless you think there is any chance of US becoming a dictatorship in the future if stricter gun control was implemented. In which case you have little faith in your nation's government and its citizens.
Do you even know how the U.S. was formed? Ever hear of England? The point in winning independence from England was so that we would never be subjected to tyranical rule again. And one of the primary reasons for citizens being allowed to bear arms was so the government would never have the upper hand over the people.
And do I think the U.S. could become a dictatorship? Put it this way, I bet every person out there in every country with dictatorial rule which started out as a fair society never thought their government would ever turn on them. The fact is, ANY country can become a dictatorship if you take its peoples ablity to stop such action away.
So what did Hitler have to do with this? Because contrary to many peoples belief, the "majority" of Germans did not blindly follow Hitler, they were forced. And why? Because they no longer had the ability to defend themselves.
Furthermore I don't understand how a document written over 200 years ago in a totally different social/political/economic climate is not ever considered for amendment due to fear of change. Especially considering the climate the constitution was written in. I guess it is not surprising however the United States is one of the most nationalistic countries in the world these days.
You're right. How does a piece of scrap paper from 200 years ago relate to us now? I mean, it only gave the right for all men to be equal. It only gave the power to the people, not the government. It only states that the government is to work for us, not us for the government.
Maybe if people paid a little more attention to that document, instead of wagging their tongues about it being outdated or "needing amendments", the government wouldn't have as much say as it does now, and we wouldn't even be having a discussion about whether I have the right to carry my gun or not.
On a final note I've never understood why people hunt. sure I can imagine it would be fun to hunt but I think I would feel pretty guilty killing an animal for no reason. I do think hunting for food,safety or population control is totally reasonable though killing for enjoyment is just so sadistic.
Why do you need to hunt for food? Growe a garden. Why do you need to hunt for safety? Keep your ass indoors, safe and sound in front of your t.v. . Who are you to decide if an animals population is getting too big? Maybe we should move out of their habitat, instead of forcing them out?
But you think these things are okay, because you enjoy being fed meat, being "safe", and being able to build thatnice big office complex on what used to be feeding grounds for the local animals. But you don't like hunting just for hunting. Do you see the self-serving hypocracy you just used?
Fact is, I don't care too much about hunting, I'm not a hunter. But I do care about my "real" safety. And guess what? If some asshole tries to carjack me, or decides I'm gonna be his next sacrificial victim to his talking dog, he's gonna get a .45 slug in a vital organ. That's what I have a license for.
Originally posted by ZorvanDo you even know how the U.S. was formed? Ever hear of England? The point in winning independence from England was so that we would never be subjected to tyranical rule again. And one of the primary reasons for citizens being allowed to bear arms was so the government would never have the upper hand over the people. And do I think the U.S. could become a dictatorship? Put it this way, I bet every person out there in every country with dictatorial rule which started out as a fair society never thought their government would ever turn on them. The fact is, ANY country can become a dictatorship if you take its peoples ablity to stop such action away. So what did Hitler have to do with this? Because contrary to many peoples belief, the "majority" of Germans did not blindly follow Hitler, they were forced. And why? Because they no longer had the ability to defend themselves. Where is the logic in this argument? Give me one example where a dictatorship was formed due to gun control. The Nazi party came to power via political means and expanded its powers and influence methodically it wasn't a smash and grab type bid for power, by the time they had began persecuting minorities they had become the state. All you have given me is an explanation of how the right to bear arms came to be in the constitution which is something I already knew. You give no real evidence that gun control has any impact on stopping the formation of a dictatorship. By the way as far as I know gun control wasn't introduced to Nazi Germany until 1938 by this time Hitler was well and truely an autocratic ruler.
You're right. How does a piece of scrap paper from 200 years ago relate to us now? I mean, it only gave the right for all men to be equal. It only gave the power to the people, not the government. It only states that the government is to work for us, not us for the government. Maybe if people paid a little more attention to that document, instead of wagging their tongues about it being outdated or "needing amendments", the government wouldn't have as much say as it does now, and we wouldn't even be having a discussion about whether I have the right to carry my gun or not. Well first of the USA was one of the last developed nations of the time to outlaw slavery, so the constitution didn't really give the right for all men to be equal or free for that matter. furthermore it only gave that right to US citizens not all men. You are right the constitution does have great significance I never said it didnt. I'm sure it holds great value to all American citizens both historically, ideologically and in upholding rights. My point was that times change and that fear to change with them due to sentiment or fear of change is counterproductive. Why do you need to hunt for food? Growe a garden. Why do you need to hunt for safety? Keep your ass indoors, safe and sound in front of your t.v. . Who are you to decide if an animals population is getting too big? Maybe we should move out of their habitat, instead of forcing them out? But you think these things are okay, because you enjoy being fed meat, being "safe", and being able to build thatnice big office complex on what used to be feeding grounds for the local animals. But you don't like hunting just for hunting. Do you see the self-serving hypocracy you just used? Fact is, I don't care too much about hunting, I'm not a hunter. But I do care about my "real" safety. And guess what? If some asshole tries to carjack me, or decides I'm gonna be his next sacrificial victim to his talking dog, he's gonna get a .45 slug in a vital organ. That's what I have a license for. I said I don't understand hunting for pleasure. I'd feel terrible if I killed something purely for fun. A vast majority of animals only kill for protection and sustenance. I don't think it is hypocritical to believe something is alright if it is morally justifiable. I guess it is an emotional and moral decision people make, I'm just surprised they can live with it. Just as an example I see stealing a loaf of bread to feed your starving family morally acceptable. Whereas stealing $50 to feed an addiction or worse yet for fun morally apprehensible. The world isn't black or white after all.
Originally posted by ZorvanDo you even know how the U.S. was formed? Ever hear of England? The point in winning independence from England was so that we would never be subjected to tyranical rule again. And one of the primary reasons for citizens being allowed to bear arms was so the government would never have the upper hand over the people. And do I think the U.S. could become a dictatorship? Put it this way, I bet every person out there in every country with dictatorial rule which started out as a fair society never thought their government would ever turn on them. The fact is, ANY country can become a dictatorship if you take its peoples ablity to stop such action away. So what did Hitler have to do with this? Because contrary to many peoples belief, the "majority" of Germans did not blindly follow Hitler, they were forced. And why? Because they no longer had the ability to defend themselves.
Where is the logic in this argument? Give me one example where a dictatorship was formed due to gun control. The Nazi party came to power via political means and expanded its powers and influence methodically it wasn't a smash and grab type bid for power, by the time they had began persecuting minorities they had become the state. All you have given me is an explanation of how the right to bear arms came to be in the constitution which is something I already knew. You give no real evidence that gun control has any impact on stopping the formation of a dictatorship. By the way as far as I know gun control wasn't introduced to Nazi Germany until 1938 by this time Hitler was well and truely an autocratic ruler.
I'm responding for the last time because "logic" is something you seem to be avoiding.
Plain and simple: is it easier to subjugate your citizens when they're armed, or unarmed?
Around were I live, most people hunt small game (rabbits, squirrels, pheasant, duck, etc) with deer being the big holiday. Although we do occasionally bag a random Iowan mountain lion... At any rate, most people 'round these here parts eat the things they kill. It's for this reason that I was taught not to use handguns because they ruin the meat. This also goes for deer. I have heard of people using handguns to hunt with, but I've never actually seen it.
I know a few enthusiasts who hunt with handguns, but most will only use handguns as finishers. Adrenalin spoils meat, so you want to put said beasty down quickly.
We carry small derringers on turkey hunts for the occasional snake or gator.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
It never ceases to amuse me that both the pro-gun and anti-gun movement is motivated by the fear of black men with guns.
Tyrants may use political maneuver or violence to gain power, but the tyranny doesn't truly begin until the population is defenseless.
Yep, downtown Baghdad has much more gun violence than any inner city in the U.S., but citizens can defend themselves.
Columbine, Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois University, they were all gun free zones.
You're a criminal that gets off by inflicting pain on whole families at a time, do you take door number 1? Or door number 2?
And the Japanese weren't the only people that understood this. China has 1/6th of the worlds population and the means to deliver military force to our land, but they choose to trade with us instead. Why is that?
Robbery and rape become way less appealing when it turns into a game of Russian Roulette.
Comments
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but you know one of the first things enacted by Hitler before he turned Germany into the Nazi regime? He had the citizens turn in all their weapons first, in the name of peace. Don't worry, the government is here to protect you. So you don't need weapons. So he said......
I don't see the relevance to be honest unless you think there is any chance of US becoming a dictatorship in the future if stricter gun control was implemented. In which case you have little faith in your nation's government and its citizens. Anyway whatever gun control laws Hitler may have put in place had little to do with his rise to power. He came to power by abusing the political system and making the German populace believe Germany could be a great nation again. By the time Hitler openly subjugated the minorities a huge majority was supportive of this move.
Furthermore I don't understand how a document written over 200 years ago in a totally different social/political/economic climate is not ever considered for amendment due to fear of change. Especially considering the climate the constitution was written in. I guess it is not surprising however the United States is one of the most nationalistic countries in the world these days.
On a final note I've never understood why people hunt. sure I can imagine it would be fun to hunt but I think I would feel pretty guilty killing an animal for no reason. I do think hunting for food,safety or population control is totally reasonable though killing for enjoyment is just so sadistic.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I'm responding for the last time because "logic" is something you seem to be avoiding.
Plain and simple: is it easier to subjugate your citizens when they're armed, or unarmed?
I know a few enthusiasts who hunt with handguns, but most will only use handguns as finishers. Adrenalin spoils meat, so you want to put said beasty down quickly.
We carry small derringers on turkey hunts for the occasional snake or gator.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
It never ceases to amuse me that both the pro-gun and anti-gun movement is motivated by the fear of black men with guns.
Tyrants may use political maneuver or violence to gain power, but the tyranny doesn't truly begin until the population is defenseless.
Yep, downtown Baghdad has much more gun violence than any inner city in the U.S., but citizens can defend themselves.
Columbine, Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois University, they were all gun free zones.
You're a criminal that gets off by inflicting pain on whole families at a time, do you take door number 1? Or door number 2?
And the Japanese weren't the only people that understood this. China has 1/6th of the worlds population and the means to deliver military force to our land, but they choose to trade with us instead. Why is that?
Robbery and rape become way less appealing when it turns into a game of Russian Roulette.