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Thoughts on independent MMORPGs
Coegi
Member Posts: 5
Hopefully, I am not violating any protocals by pitching this out here. Anyway, what do you all look for in a MMORPG? I ask becuase we are an independent group, talented and driven but new to the gaming industry, without access to tens of thousands of dollars in markter research to get an answer. Besides, I would trust you all before I would some data from who knows where.
Let me explain, I am not going to be tacky and pitch my game here nor in my profile. All I'll say is we have a working title with a player base of 15k with a daily login of 900 so we are not starting from scratch and we have a formula that has worked so far. However, as we gear to try and take this to the next level we are not so presumptuous as to not do our homework.
We have our own theories on what works but we would love your unbiased input. So, what are your opinions and overviews on what attracts you to a game and what keeps you coming back?
Thanks all.
Comments
One word : Community
We can get better gameplay from other types of games...MMOs are boring and repetitive by nature, its the other players playing that keep people (me) coming back.
~HappyGaming
Here is what you need to know PvP sells if you hhave lots of PvE and a massive world with it.
Why do you think AoC had so much hipe and started out seeling so much?
And why do you think LotRO was practically a failure? because it had 0 PvP.
that is why WAR will sell also it has a massive world but has a major PVP focus.
Its also why fury failed because it didnt have a massive world to venture and explore.
if you want to make a good title that lots of people cant stop logging into make a game with good graphics a medium-big world and a BIG but not completly PvP focus.
Thanks for the input Korvix and 123. I agree Community building is an essential step and we go to great lengths to involve and engage the community. Also, PVP, at the moment we are all PVP but have an AI system we are dropping in soon. So I agree, 123, PVP is important but I think you need to hit that perfect blend.
Ok so subset question, what would draw you in and keep you involved in a community?
In addition, if anyone else has thoughts please put them in, I would love to hear them even if they are simply repeating what Korvix and 123 said. And once again thanks Korvix and 123
Lets see what you all think between the 2 topics put forth so far
Hey Coegi,
as a long time MMO player, the thing that does keep me coming back to the genre are two things.. which both were already mentioned: Community and PvP.
However, I will not play a game that only has a good community or only has PvP. I want both. Sounds a bit selfish, or picky, but hey - it is my money and I get to choose where I spend it!
The Saga of Ryzom is a GREAT place to look for that combo. It had the absolute best community I've ever seen by far in my MMO career, which stretches back to EQ1. It also had a fun PvP element which involved guild battles which sometimes was 50 vs 50+.. and this is when the servers almost shut down. That is a low and conservative estimate as well.
Also as a game designer myself, I'm interested in this topic as well. I hope I gave you what you're looking for!
Also, for an add on, I also enjoy more 'sandbox' games. Y'know, do what you want when you want.
Blessings,
MMO migrant.
One thing need for a successful community is variety, but without causing too much confusing, such as a good gathering area, to be a sort of prime location for player socialization. Prime example being World of Warcraft, Orgrimmar, or shattrath, This is just an example of places that you will never see less than 20-30 people at any time. Another good community factor is making structured elements that coincide and compliment eachother with small challenges, such as in crafting, (Hunters get resources needed by crafter) This builds a reputation for very deticated crafters/master of the arts, while being able to provide back to the playerbase through the system. A good example of this would be PreCU SWG, when the best of the best crafters where practically known server-wide, and if players wanted the best gear, they went to the crafters, Which brings another important factors, (Players HATE it when the BEST crafted stuff is worse than the averge/superior loot.) You still want there to be need for an exciting loot with perks you cant get in crafting, or if you dont know a crafter, unique loot ect, but the Best of the best in crafting should not be some pushover to drops, otherwise there will be no crafting community towards the endgame levels . Well that is just some of my imput from the many MMORPGS i have played, and the many lessons i have learned through success and failure stories, that make and break a MMO in its very fabric. I wish you the best of luck on your project
Which one is more important is kind of a bad question. You can have a community without PvP, but if you have PvP it forms a community. I've played many a game where you get that from pvp.
Simple,
the way to hook people is variation.
even the most dedicated PvE person likes to play a bit of PvP etc,
someone that loves instances doesn't want to solely level up in them,
you need a motive behind simply leveling to fight stuff,
eg. cool gear, mats for crafting etc.
clean looking graphics, good performance.
if it runs bad, no-one will play it, simple
basically just play off what people like in games that already exist and steal them =p
----------------
Hello!
I look for Freedom personally
I really enjoy the freedom games like Eve and Ultima online gave the player, alot of modern mmo's have had one major turn off for me, and thats they give you a laid out path to follow while playing the game. Games like lotro, aoc, and Wow you had very little freedom to do as you want besides leveling up and pvping.
Basically I look for "sandbox" components in an mmo.
PvP + PvE = chaos. No one is satisfied. PvPers being cast aside and with 10001 rules; PvEers to encounter them (and usually in the areas they need to gather mats, on top of beasties).
To me a good MMO is basically scriptless and not pressing you to HURRY, GAMES ENDING IN 1day!! Soloable, and I mean 100% not 60%, people don't have forever to wait for groups to form. Want to explore -- the main reason I even play MMOs besides going after the dragon -- and have the time to do so after clearing the field, not get nagged by respawns every 5 minutes. Want to craft, with a game that takes it seriously, not as some afterthought -- with handcrafted goods being the epics (loot can be raws/money/skills/treasure).
Something so simple, and still can't find in MMOs is the above. Not everyone is in MMOs for Myspace 2.0; nor do they want to get involved with the dramas and politics of guilds, either. My time is my time, and like to play on my time.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
ditto. sandbox gaming is superior.
i don't like PVP ...i don't like to be killed as well as don't like killing others...it's stupid for me...i just like a game due to its good community, perfect skill system and a good background story for the game..
Either you are a troll or just incredibly stupid. LOTRO has a very good and decently balenced PVP system known as Monster Play. Also, LOTRO is no where close to a failure. The servers are always very populated and they are releasing an expansion pack for it in the fall.
Look at DDO, that game isn't a failure and it has not much PVP at all.
A challenging (not stupidly hard but not something just anyone can and would do) and rewarding non-combat system crafting, housing, farming, fishing, resourse gathering think old UO for a reference.
Don't force pvp down people throat like most indie companies do. Was one of the issues that gimped UO popularity.
The one thing that is most important to me?
Well designed and seamless areas that are filled with interesting things to explore. I hate when MMOs just Copy / paste the same caves and ruins in each area! I want huge forests filled with old ruins with bandits taking refuge there and deep dark caves with who knows what in them!! I want an adventure >:D
Also I like unique classes that aren't watered down due to PVP like WoW is doing. I favor classes like Vanguards because they are all vastly different and even overpowered in their own respects, and deffinitly overpowered in pvp. But in Pve they are balenced so who cares?
Turbine was already able to solve this PVE vs PVP by creating monster play so they would not have to nerf PVE classes but just nerf / buff the PVP Monster classes. Though their Monster Play is still tons of fun.
Community is very important to me, I think housing should make the community closer but it seems that developers can never make that happen. My housing community in lotro is always empty, same with vanguard. I am not exactly sure what they could do but perhaps they could set up little vendor shops at their house with things they have crafted or some such. Having the community interact with crafting and economy is also good.
Another aspect to MMOs that is very important to me is how you obtain gear. Now I don't mind raids but I think that whatever you do should yeild good gear. I believe that Quests / Raids / 6 man dungeons / reputation / crafting should all yeild you good gear and not one should be over the other. LOTRO has done this pretty decently and will most likely improve upon it in the expansion.
The commercial titles concentrate way to much on bleeding edge graphics. Yes, pretty pixels are nice, but fun gameplay, and a game that runs smoothly on the average computer, is WAY more important.
That being said, choice of art style is still very important. Although a lot of people like the anime style, I don't care for it.
Polished and entertainment value. I am not talking about merely graphics here. The game should be polished. Everything should work. There should be attention to details. UI should feel responsive .. things like that.
WOW is the best example of a polished game.
Animations, they are very important! Not crappy animations found in games like Vanguard but nice fluent animations like Lord of the rings, WoWs and such.