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Been playing it for a few hours now since I left when NGE started...
Enigma
Member UncommonPosts: 11,384
I don't want to sound like a nag or a game hater; but dear God in heaven; are these developers mentally retarded?
This is the first and ONLY mmo that I have ever played that actually gets WORSE as the years progress. If the gameplay gets any dumbed down I minus well be playing Sonic the Hedgehog with the infinite life cheat on.
Im really trying to be open about SWG since its been a couple of years of playing it but good lord, how do people play this for 5 straight years like a couple people here have been doing? What in the world do you guys do to like this game? I would like to know your secrets because Im trying my damndest to like it and it's just not clicking.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Comments
It's something approximating Star Wars.
That's all it's got going for it.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
To most, it's improved a lot since NGE first came out. It's just matter of opinon i believe, if you like it..play it. If you don't, move on to another game.
I'm with you on this one Enigma. For the life of me I can't understand why they haven't announced a SWG 2. Of all the games on this planet SWG should be a beacon, an mmo other companies look at and say "damn, I wish we had that game"
Enigma, you really shouldn't have to try to like a game. I don't think there's many people that have actually played this game 5 years straight. At one point there was even a CU petition site I believe with thousands upon thousands of signatures if I remember correctly. Other than the vets on the trial, I would bet most of the playerbase is made up of of new players that are Star Wars fans. I'd be willing to bet if you shouted, "WoW" ingame, most players wouldn't even know the acronym. The game is not for MMORPGERs anymore, sadly.
I am currently in a return trial of the game and I have found it to be ok all but the crappy ui. I have been playing now for over a week and I plan to finish the Legacy quests before my subscription ends and then I am going full time EQ2 until Ryzom returns. I may try swg again in the future if they ever revamp the game ui,but if they do not I will probably be finished with it forever. Goodluck while you experiment with it it has it moments ,but then you relaize our fighting against poor ui and thats the core problem of the game. The ui is the single most important part of any game period if you cannot interface with your game and enjoy it its doomed:P
Enigma, you really shouldn't have to try to like a game. I don't think there's many people that have actually played this game 5 years straight. At one point there was even a CU petition site I believe with thousands upon thousands of signatures if I remember correctly. Other than the vets on the trial, I would bet most of the playerbase is made up of of new players that are Star Wars fans. I'd be willing to bet if you shouted, "WoW" ingame, most players wouldn't even know the acronym. The game is not for MMORPGERs anymore, sadly.
That's a little bit of an overstatement. While new players make up a large portion of the current population (not saying the current population is large by any means, just a portion), that doesn't negate the fact that most people even out of the video game market have heard of World of Warcraft.
Also, the claim that the game is not for MMORPGers is rather broad. I've played several RPGs and I consider SWG the most fun on some points (crafting, exploration, space to a lesser extent). If you meant the strickest sense of the term, and was literally a "role playing game", I agree to a certain extent. Many new players are of a younger demographic and do not have as much of an appreciation for role playing aspects.
Saying it is the first MMO to get worse as time passes is a bit of a stretch, but saying it has had some of the worst changes might be appropriate. You also said it is worse now than when the NGE launched (when you last played), which is kind of hard to believe.
Saying it is the first MMO to get worse as time passes is a bit of a stretch, but saying it has had some of the worst changes might be appropriate. You also said it is worse now than when the NGE launched (when you last played), which is kind of hard to believe.
At least when the NGE launched there were still plenty of people to play with. Now the servers are barren wastelands.
That's true, I suppose WoW is well known by those who have never even tredded upon the world of MMOs. I think you understood my point, though.
What I mean to say is that in MY EXPERIENCE, most of the new players (which seem to be most of the playerbase), haven't played other MMORPGs to compare SWG to. Since the start, SWG has been a STAR WARS game.
Here's a better example: At the launch of SWG, if someone shouted "EQ", or even "MMO", most people wouldn't have recognized those acronyms. The reason being simply because so many people bought the box solely because it was a Star Wars game. That's what made the game great for so many people- living in the world of star wars!.
In fact, SWG brought an enormous amount of people in to the MMO market that might have never discovered it without the means of a star wars franchise!
As a Star Wars fan, SWG is, and probably will remain to be, one of the best incarnations of the Star Wars universe in a videogame. As an MMORPG, however, SWG has become (to what appears to be most people) subpar.
If a friend asked me for a good star wars game, I'd undoubtedly reccomend SWG to him/her. But..., if a buddy asked me for an MMORPG, SWG would be one of the last to come to mind.
Catch my drift?
If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.
If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
I understand you feelings I also got them and felt the rush to bash right and left at every forum I could, but saying it's worse than the first NGE we have got makes me think you're not being objective. I liked your review here in mmorpg.com, it was fair and objective, done with the head and not with the heart (damn, this was hard to acomplish in november 2005, at that time I had my eyes injected with blood XD).
Perhaps playing more than a few hours, or reading a bit into the friday features and chapters note will you discover that in this last year devs have put into the game more quantity and quality than in the previous 4 years. I literally went from bashing to subscriving in a matter of weeks.
I logged in as well- will add to your thread. Servers are really low in population. It really warrants a server merge down to 5 servers at the most. I know this is a hard fact to accept because of resources, player cities, etc. But the game was designed to be a massive multiplayer RPG and right now due to "time" and business decisions the game needs it. NPC cities need players to thrive in them and right now its dead. I can also see a FFA Galactic Server that is needed. I think SOE won't do a thing though.
A lot of the NGE bugs are fixed but you can still look in the sky and see stars shinning through the planets and star destroyers- all 3 of them. This just represents how the whole is blown off by management and that is a shame. Basic MMO development 101 says this is a no no. Fishing lines still have no strings- funny that I bring that up! But the graphics cranked up with anti alias look great. Player houses and player cities still are unique.
The UI is horrible and I can see how it has been band aided since the NGE. There have been steps but they really need to shine it up. The target system is a little buggy in mobs. But I do see improvements. I suggest for vets to press "Y" when in combat. I don't care for FPS's in RPG's. Tabula Rasa's target system is much smoother than the NGE targeting system. Crafting is still king compared to other mmo's and I made a much needed swoop bike. I laid some harvestor's down. Kosters design is still king.
I keep coming back to populations. There are no time sinks on travel time which can be a positive or a negative in terms of design and social game play. Only Mos Eisley was populated. But this is nothing compared to Pre NGE.
Role players should swarm to SWG. The story teller features are nice. In fact they are some of the best options I have seen amongst SOE's decisions. EQ II should be jealous. But over all the game needs content that is not rehashed items or instances that are cloned WoW rip offs.
If SWG actually merges servers, adds more professions, builds a story, and gets back on track with star wars fans who are adults, things could change. But over all the changes since Helios has been gone have been positive. But now that DM is gone who knows. In the end for a new player they will have a purpose but there are still loose ends in the game play and many many aspects of SWG has been dumbed down. And for that- it is a shame because I can see post NGE fans who would really love a game that offers more challenges such as Pre CU. And the universe stinks of jedi. Order 66 needs to be upheld in SWG<
So in the end I won't be staying with SWG. I find potential in it. But how can one engage in SWG when even Lucas Arts ignores it in the newsletters? They should be building stories. Featuring it in magazines. Instead they have done nothing. I prefer CCP over Lucas Arts and SOE's handling of what should be the greatest game of all time.
Saying it is the first MMO to get worse as time passes is a bit of a stretch, but saying it has had some of the worst changes might be appropriate. You also said it is worse now than when the NGE launched (when you last played), which is kind of hard to believe.
The population got worse. So yes, it isn't hard to believe
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Jedi is a big thing. There is suppose to be just a few Jedi left at this time period. God, I hate this the most. There lots of Jedi running about. I guess they lifted Order 66 and Yoda/Obi Wan didnt know what the hell they were talking about
"you are the last of your kind" my ass lol
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I understand you feelings I also got them and felt the rush to bash right and left at every forum I could, but saying it's worse than the first NGE we have got makes me think you're not being objective. I liked your review here in mmorpg.com, it was fair and objective, done with the head and not with the heart (damn, this was hard to acomplish in november 2005, at that time I had my eyes injected with blood XD).
Perhaps playing more than a few hours, or reading a bit into the friday features and chapters note will you discover that in this last year devs have put into the game more quantity and quality than in the previous 4 years. I literally went from bashing to subscriving in a matter of weeks.
Ill def give it the entire free time to see what happens. Ill try to get involved as much as I can
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
The ui, IMO, is probably the single most important aspect to a positive game experience. It is the medium through which you experience the game. If you have to fight with the ui you will undoubtedly have a very bad experience with the overall game.
It's absoultely ridiculous that this simple fact has eluded the devs for nearly 3 years!
Enigma, i'll give you some advises that allowed me to actually play....
take chase camera off, - that will allow you to have the same type of camera movement we had in the past. that made probably the single most important change to me, since with chase camera on I simply could not play
then be sure to have the option to have actions fired from the toolbar
if you are into it, download a user pack that puts the "old ui" back in the game
I also remaped some of the mouse buttons.
depending on the power of your computer, max graphics... when i played swg for the first time, i had a ok computer but couldnt run the game with max gfx, now that i can, I see things i never saw on those years.
from what i have been understanding, they are slowly returning some elements of the "classical" SWG in terms of interface and gameplay options, tho they are not the default setting, so exploring the options tab fully sometimes allow one to recover something he guessed had been lost.
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Just the combat system?
What happened to all the professions? Or would that also qualify as something that changed when it moved to a class-based system? The proliferation of Jedi seems to be a sore spot that results from the shift to classes. So it would seem a number of people take issue with the Lore now as well.
I generally try to stay fairly neutral and I know you said "most" and that is a good cover, but I just wanted to illustrate that the combat change was not the only significant change that might turn someone, who previously played, off. I am using my vet trial now as well and am trying to approach this unbiased, but I can certainly understand how someone would not enjoy the current iteration, but would have thouroughly enjoyed Pre-CU/NGE versions of the game.
Now, if someone's only focus was JtL, then that has certainly not changed very much with the exception of mining asteroids as far as I can tell.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Just the combat system?
What happened to all the professions? Or would that also qualify as something that changed when it moved to a class-based system? The proliferation of Jedi seems to be a sore spot that results from the shift to classes. So it would seem a number of people take issue with the Lore now as well.
I generally try to stay fairly neutral and I know you said "most" and that is a good cover, but I just wanted to illustrate that the combat change was not the only significant change that might turn someone, who previously played, off. I am using my vet trial now as well and am trying to approach this unbiased, but I can certainly understand how someone would not enjoy the current iteration, but would have thouroughly enjoyed Pre-CU/NGE versions of the game.
Now, if someone's only focus was JtL, then that has certainly not changed very much with the exception of mining asteroids as far as I can tell.
combat system = proffs in my mind because you need to shoot guns etc that is what the nge was about fix the combat system to fps and "fix" the proffs"
housing is identical , most of the artisan stuff is the same to be honest crafting wise the crafting system has not changed the only major change was to all the combat stuff which I said. Since I had multiple crafting toons and only ever had one combat toon its not that big a deal to me I guess but yes to me since I went from MCM to BH in the CU and remained BH to this day my proff with the exception of how I fight was not changed BH still exists as does weaponsmith/armoursmith (which I also do) structures (which i also do and shipwright (which I still also do)
The activities surrounding harvesting of things, social stuff etc is identical except they added things like elite harvesters . Most things are add ons with the xception of the original change of combat in the nge/cu thingy which is now a 3 year old change.
I can understand where you are coming from, but I just can't agree that profs = combat system.
This is a fundamental difference of opinion and I can certainly agree to disagree, but I'll take a (hopefully) brief moment to explain why I believe the way I do.
I would agree that profs = combat system if all professions preCU/NGE were now represented by classes. Or even if there were a class progression system to make them match (i.e. Max out Scout then start leveling Ranger). As it is, you now have a strange mix of hybrid classes that attempt to convert a number of the old professions, but I do not feel they accomplish this goal. As such, profession changes, and combat changes, are two seperate, though to some extent, linked changes.
For example, the closest thing I can find to Ranger (my main pre-cu profession), is Bounty Hunter. I've tried all the classes except Jedi, thanks to my old profession changing tool that was placed in my inventory just after CU hit, and I just haven't found something similar. BH seems to be the only one with any form of trap...though I can't craft traps, or camps, anymore to my knowledge.
Crafting/Harvesting is certainly pretty much the same from what I have seen. There is some debate as to it's relevance anymore, but it seems that Structure traders at least do alright.
Socially, while the mechanics are the same, the crowd has certainly changed and the "social sinks" have pretty much been removed with the exception fo the ME Cantina. Perhaps the new search tools will rectify this, but I honestly have not taken much time to play with them.
I hope that explains my point of view some and that it doesn't come across as an argument. With something as subjective as personal opinion, there is certainly no winning a debate on that, but it never hurts to understand another viewpoint so thanks for the feedback.
edit: fixing typos
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
In no way does profs = combat system. Combat system is the mechanics of how characters battle with the environment or one another. The professions are the makeup of the character and how character relates to the combat system.
To equate the two is merely a willful obfuscation of systems. I have never heard anyone anywhere in any discussion of games (table top RPGs, MMOs, console or any others) that euqte professions to a combat system.
I wonder why someone would even attempt to equate the two.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The only problem, Unmax, is that the core philosophy of the game is different.
The things you list that are still in the game worked best with the original basis of interdependancy and community bulding. These are things that take time and patience IMO, and that goes totally against the "instant action" philosophy of the current game.
So rather then being the basis of the game, they're trying to overlap it with the Star Warsy/fast-paced action style of gaming. IMO that is like trying to mix oil with water.
This may be ok for some but I think the lack of population really makes this issue apparent. SoE needs to focus on one philosophy - and get it done right!
beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it.
I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp.
Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger.
So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.