Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Fishermage I wonder why someone would even attempt to equate the two.
beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it.
I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp.
Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger.
So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.
Where have you ever seen or heard anyone at any time ever eqyate a combat system to character class anywhere other than in your own mind?
It's not about whether one is analytical or not; it is choosing to equate things that no one has ever equated anywhere at any time.
I'm just wondering where you ever got this idea; I have never seen anyone ever say this.
I have seen people define character classes by combat roles, I have seen many descriptions of how they relate to one another but I have never seen anyone anywhere try and say they are the same thing. If you are not analytical, and therefore didn't come up with this through your own analysis, where did yo get this idea from?
I certainly agree with the fact the professions have an impact on how a character relates to the combat system, but that the combat system, since it is applied to all classes, is not the same as a class/profession.
That said, I think, in your post, you highlights one of the problems with using "hybrid classes" to represent all the previous professions. When you stated "but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any profs" I think you opened my eyes to something. Pre-CU, I would have a role to play in a group or even just to strangers in the wild. Now, the dependency on my chosen profession has been destroyed by the fact anyone can perform those tasks. There is still a level dependency between combat and non-combat (crafting) classes, but the interdependency between combat professions seems greatly reduced or, in some cases, eliminated. The dependency that is there seems to have been dumbed down to more traditional roles of tank, dps, etc.
Naturally, take this with a grain of salt. I've only been back roughly a week (maybe just less then that) and been trying to wrap my head around the changes. My comments are based on my experience so far and tinkering with the different classes. As I stated, the closest I have been able to get to my Master Ranger was BH so seems we came to a similat conclusion on that. Master Architect was easy enough to replicate via Structure Trader, so there are some classes that seem to correlate to Pre-CU/NGE professions.
So, with that all said, I just want to get back on track of my original (and now updated) point; For those who do not believe combat system and profession are one and the same, there has been more then just the significant change to combat that would turn them off to the current game. Reasons may include the combat system, professions, perceived inconsistencies with lore, changes to social options and the general current player demographic among other things. While there may be current tools that attempt to address these "issues", the fact these tools are required may constitute an unacceptable change to what any particular person enjoyed about the older version of the game. Since enjoyment is something subject to the tastes of each unique person, any justification that can be summed up as "well, it's the same, but different" might not have the desired influence.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Enigma, i'll give you some advises that allowed me to actually play.... take chase camera off, - that will allow you to have the same type of camera movement we had in the past. that made probably the single most important change to me, since with chase camera on I simply could not play then be sure to have the option to have actions fired from the toolbar if you are into it, download a user pack that puts the "old ui" back in the game I also remaped some of the mouse buttons. depending on the power of your computer, max graphics... when i played swg for the first time, i had a ok computer but couldnt run the game with max gfx, now that i can, I see things i never saw on those years. from what i have been understanding, they are slowly returning some elements of the "classical" SWG in terms of interface and gameplay options, tho they are not the default setting, so exploring the options tab fully sometimes allow one to recover something he guessed had been lost.
do you have a link to the old fashion UI? That may help me out. I am not liking the new UI at all
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Enigma, i'll give you some advises that allowed me to actually play.... take chase camera off, - that will allow you to have the same type of camera movement we had in the past. that made probably the single most important change to me, since with chase camera on I simply could not play then be sure to have the option to have actions fired from the toolbar if you are into it, download a user pack that puts the "old ui" back in the game I also remaped some of the mouse buttons. depending on the power of your computer, max graphics... when i played swg for the first time, i had a ok computer but couldnt run the game with max gfx, now that i can, I see things i never saw on those years. from what i have been understanding, they are slowly returning some elements of the "classical" SWG in terms of interface and gameplay options, tho they are not the default setting, so exploring the options tab fully sometimes allow one to recover something he guessed had been lost.
do you have a link to the old fashion UI? That may help me out. I am not liking the new UI at all
If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
I also have 30 days free and been playing few hours a day. I'm trying to do the legacy on Naboo but it is so boring. Is there no other way to level up? (I know the 10 missions per day from terminals)
Combat is still pretty horrible with all the flashing ball effects and npc running around almost lightspeed. Theres the slider for particle effects in options but that really doesn't help at all. The combat still looks ridiculous even if you set it to zero.
If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P
If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P
Please don't tell me they voted on the official forums?
Because we all know only the "vocal minority" goes there.
I wonder why someone would even attempt to equate the two.
beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it. I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp. Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger. So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.
Where have you ever seen or heard anyone at any time ever eqyate a combat system to character class anywhere other than in your own mind? It's not about whether one is analytical or not; it is choosing to equate things that no one has ever equated anywhere at any time. I'm just wondering where you ever got this idea; I have never seen anyone ever say this. I have seen people define character classes by combat roles, I have seen many descriptions of how they relate to one another but I have never seen anyone anywhere try and say they are the same thing. If you are not analytical, and therefore didn't come up with this through your own analysis, where did yo get this idea from?
well now you have seen another way that some people might look at it. Its not a sin and it doesn't change what is its how I define it. I dont have a tendancy to use a lot of the jargon a lot of people use but that's just me and who I am. So that's life that is how I see it and that is how I play the game. My BH is a rifleman who hunts skins and pitches tents. My medic is a combat medic with the rifleman expertise tree. They essentially work the way I want them too and that's that. Its not realy a debatable issue its how people perceive things in their own right and how they have molded a game to suit them to make them happy. That is how I play my guys and I"m happy and I call my bh a rifleman and my medic a combat medic and all is well with the world. To me it was pretty much a change in combat configuration and not much more. I have no wish to convince you that your interpretation is not correct or to accuse you of obfuscation or whatnot I would ask the same kind of respect in return. This is MY opinion and perception of the game changes not yours. You can have yours and I have mine and that's that.
First I'll say that I enjoyed the CU for most part... and could tolerate some of its faults. But this NGE just takes the f'ng cake.
I logged in yesterday or so for first time in 3 years as well... and I feel exactly the same way as you do man.
I dont even see how this game works, everything from the animations to the ui is just clunky and feels like it was made in ten minutes. Its so hard to click on things I want to attack, and it wont unselect my choices without pressing ESC button. The movement is like Pre-CU/CU sped up in fast forward on a VHS tape. It looks god awful.
All the professions are gone, the ones that remain are only the same in name only.
I cant for life of me see what anyone would find appealing about this game.
And yes, the server population was just barren and devoid of life on any major city.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ummax
Originally posted by Fishermage I wonder why someone would even attempt to equate the two.
beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it. I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp. Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger. So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.
Where have you ever seen or heard anyone at any time ever eqyate a combat system to character class anywhere other than in your own mind? It's not about whether one is analytical or not; it is choosing to equate things that no one has ever equated anywhere at any time. I'm just wondering where you ever got this idea; I have never seen anyone ever say this. I have seen people define character classes by combat roles, I have seen many descriptions of how they relate to one another but I have never seen anyone anywhere try and say they are the same thing. If you are not analytical, and therefore didn't come up with this through your own analysis, where did yo get this idea from?
well now you have seen another way that some people might look at it. Its not a sin and it doesn't change what is its how I define it. I dont have a tendancy to use a lot of the jargon a lot of people use but that's just me and who I am. So that's life that is how I see it and that is how I play the game. My BH is a rifleman who hunts skins and pitches tents. My medic is a combat medic with the rifleman expertise tree. They essentially work the way I want them too and that's that. Its not realy a debatable issue its how people perceive things in their own right and how they have molded a game to suit them to make them happy. That is how I play my guys and I"m happy and I call my bh a rifleman and my medic a combat medic and all is well with the world. To me it was pretty much a change in combat configuration and not much more. I have no wish to convince you that your interpretation is not correct or to accuse you of obfuscation or whatnot I would ask the same kind of respect in return. This is MY opinion and perception of the game changes not yours. You can have yours and I have mine and that's that.
the difference is that my way, which is the way everyone dscusses games everywhere in the known universe, at least in this very simple to understand area, that professions and/or classes are one thing and the combat system is another, that they relate but they are far from the same thing -- my way actually facilitates understanding and discussion, whereas yours blurs things, makes them much more difficult to discuss, and here is the obvious rub, much more difficult to criticize because when one person says and means something you can pretend that it's something entirely different.
very bad form indeed, but I quite understand why you do it, knowing your function and purpose on these forums.
Strange, I never knew that removing professions was a combat change. I guess if SOE found that combat was taking to long then deleting medics would be considered a valid combat mechanic change?
I still don't see how removing non-combat professions like ranger and bio-engineer was combat related.
Why is SWG the only game were people justify removing content and features?
I don't want to sound like a nag or a game hater; but dear God in heaven; are these developers mentally retarded? This is the first and ONLY mmo that I have ever played that actually gets WORSE as the years progress. If the gameplay gets any dumbed down I minus well be playing Sonic the Hedgehog with the infinite life cheat on. Im really trying to be open about SWG since its been a couple of years of playing it but good lord, how do people play this for 5 straight years like a couple people here have been doing? What in the world do you guys do to like this game? I would like to know your secrets because Im trying my damndest to like it and it's just not clicking.
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Ummax, you say, "most of the elements that made the game fun are still there," and "maybe you never liked it in the first place."
I don't know if you're trying to pull the wool over this guy's eyes or if you could possibly believe what you're saying.
Most of the elements that made the game fun for me, for example, were:
Being a teras kasi master with kickass combat animations (gone and gone)
Helping my friends find and tame pets, I'd hold off the adults while they tamed the babies (gone)
Being an entertainer, and a Teras Kasi at the same time (gone)
Unlocking a ton of force enhancements in the village to make my Teras Kasi even more kickass, (gone)
Working on my own template using the skillpoint system, making changes I wanted to any profession, anytime (gone)
Shopping at the huge guild malls for the best crafted weapons available (replaced by kill, loot, repeat system, and soon to be replaced by trading card loot that you buy not from ingame crafters but from SOE's online store with real cash--utter b.s,)
Helping my friends work towards unlocking a jedi knight (gone)
Chilling in the cantina and swapping stories with friends about hunts and pvp while we had our mindwounds healed by entertainers (gone).
So ummax, why are you trying to tell this guy that most of the elements are still there, and why would you tell him that he probably didn't like it in the first place?
Go ahead and plug something you enjoy, but at least be honest about it. Also, telling other people what they do and don't like doesn't usually work out too well, fyi.
If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P
Was that the poll where the options were Meatlump King and gardening?
To most, it's improved a lot since NGE first came out. It's just matter of opinon i believe, if you like it..play it. If you don't, move on to another game.
I don't want to sound like a nag or a game hater; but dear God in heaven; are these developers mentally retarded? This is the first and ONLY mmo that I have ever played that actually gets WORSE as the years progress. If the gameplay gets any dumbed down I minus well be playing Sonic the Hedgehog with the infinite life cheat on. Im really trying to be open about SWG since its been a couple of years of playing it but good lord, how do people play this for 5 straight years like a couple people here have been doing? What in the world do you guys do to like this game? I would like to know your secrets because Im trying my damndest to like it and it's just not clicking.
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Ummax, you say, "most of the elements that made the game fun are still there," and "maybe you never liked it in the first place."
I don't know if you're trying to pull the wool over this guy's eyes or if you could possibly believe what you're saying.
Most of the elements that made the game fun for me, for example, were:
Being a teras kasi master with kickass combat animations (gone and gone)
Helping my friends find and tame pets, I'd hold off the adults while they tamed the babies (gone)
Being an entertainer, and a Teras Kasi at the same time (gone)
Unlocking a ton of force enhancements in the village to make my Teras Kasi even more kickass, (gone)
Working on my own template using the skillpoint system, making changes I wanted to any profession, anytime (gone)
Shopping at the huge guild malls for the best crafted weapons available (replaced by kill, loot, repeat system, and soon to be replaced by trading card loot that you buy not from ingame crafters but from SOE's online store with real cash--utter b.s,)
Helping my friends work towards unlocking a jedi knight (gone)
Chilling in the cantina and swapping stories with friends about hunts and pvp while we had our mindwounds healed by entertainers (gone).
So ummax, why are you trying to tell this guy that most of the elements are still there, and why would you tell him that he probably didn't like it in the first place?
Go ahead and plug something you enjoy, but at least be honest about it. Also, telling other people what they do and don't like doesn't usually work out too well, fyi.
This is a novel idea i know but usually as people we like something right away and making ourselves like it usualy is a sign we dont actually like it. My suggestion to him was that he probably doesn't like the game and so should probably not waste his time FORCING himself to like it and find another game. Not hard to understand really but if he is trying to like something then he probably doesn't actually like it and will waste his money. I played another game were people told me after my initial impressions of "this game sucks" that if i kept at it that i would LEARN to like it. I did a double take and shook my head. If you dont like something in the first like couple hours of gameplay chances are your gonna like it even less 3 weeks from now when he finds a game he actualy does like.
So not sure what your on about however my thoughts were honest and not based on anything other then the actual posters original comments people however do try to pull threads off topic and I got dragged into that hole by someone only taking part of what I said and leaving out the actualy real message which is that it sounds like he doesn't like the game and should just move on.
the suspicious nature and paranoia that is exhibited sometimes and attempt to read between lines and find actualy motivations on this board is unreal. Bottom line looks like he doens't like the game and should move on. /shrugs
yes i answered the intent of the my original post in this thread not what your trying to turn it into another fight over past and present sorry about that ..
this is the original post I speak of now I know people like to turn things into something else but honestly he doesn't appear to like the game and is forcing himself to learn to like it and should move on I would say because this game is not for him.. (sorry to confuse you)
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by ArcAngel3 Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Enigma I don't want to sound like a nag or a game hater; but dear God in heaven; are these developers mentally retarded? This is the first and ONLY mmo that I have ever played that actually gets WORSE as the years progress. If the gameplay gets any dumbed down I minus well be playing Sonic the Hedgehog with the infinite life cheat on. Im really trying to be open about SWG since its been a couple of years of playing it but good lord, how do people play this for 5 straight years like a couple people here have been doing? What in the world do you guys do to like this game? I would like to know your secrets because Im trying my damndest to like it and it's just not clicking.
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Ummax, you say, "most of the elements that made the game fun are still there," and "maybe you never liked it in the first place." I don't know if you're trying to pull the wool over this guy's eyes or if you could possibly believe what you're saying. Most of the elements that made the game fun for me, for example, were: Being a teras kasi master with kickass combat animations (gone and gone) Helping my friends find and tame pets, I'd hold off the adults while they tamed the babies (gone) Being an entertainer, and a Teras Kasi at the same time (gone) Unlocking a ton of force enhancements in the village to make my Teras Kasi even more kickass, (gone) Working on my own template using the skillpoint system, making changes I wanted to any profession, anytime (gone) Shopping at the huge guild malls for the best crafted weapons available (replaced by kill, loot, repeat system, and soon to be replaced by trading card loot that you buy not from ingame crafters but from SOE's online store with real cash--utter b.s,) Helping my friends work towards unlocking a jedi knight (gone) Chilling in the cantina and swapping stories with friends about hunts and pvp while we had our mindwounds healed by entertainers (gone). So ummax, why are you trying to tell this guy that most of the elements are still there, and why would you tell him that he probably didn't like it in the first place? Go ahead and plug something you enjoy, but at least be honest about it. Also, telling other people what they do and don't like doesn't usually work out too well, fyi.
This is a novel idea i know but usually as people we like something right away and making ourselves like it usualy is a sign we dont actually like it. My suggestion to him was that he probably doesn't like the game and so should probably not waste his time FORCING himself to like it and find another game. Not hard to understand really but if he is trying to like something then he probably doesn't actually like it and will waste his money. I played another game were people told me after my initial impressions of "this game sucks" that if i kept at it that i would LEARN to like it. I did a double take and shook my head. If you dont like something in the first like couple hours of gameplay chances are your gonna like it even less 3 weeks from now when he finds a game he actualy does like. So not sure what your on about however my thoughts were honest and not based on anything other then the actual posters original comments people however do try to pull threads off topic and I got dragged into that hole by someone only taking part of what I said and leaving out the actualy real message which is that it sounds like he doesn't like the game and should just move on. the suspicious nature and paranoia that is exhibited sometimes and attempt to read between lines and find actualy motivations on this board is unreal. Bottom line looks like he doens't like the game and should move on. /shrugs
yes i answered the intent of the my original post in this thread not what your trying to turn it into another fight over past and present sorry about that ..
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread?
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread
I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat.
I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need.
I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical.
If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
ummax, are you playing a different SWG than the rest of us? If not, you are seriously misguided.
How is the game essentially the same?
Player housing is still in, that's it. The combat is downgraded. No skill system, which was what made SWG so appealing in the first place. The economy is dead, inflated, and loot-based, NOT player-driven. Instancing is how they add content now. No expansions.
The only thing that is the same are the bugs and housing. That's it, that's all.
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ummax
Originally posted by Fishermage
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange. EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat. I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need. I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical. If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
No need to lie about what I have said. I have never defended anyone behaving badly. I have never defended abuse, never defended anyone's right to be abusive, never defended anything unethical. What in God's name are you talking about?
Why do you continually do this? perhaps you should calm down and actually READ what I have written.
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread
I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat.
I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need.
I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical.
If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
No need to lie about what I have said. I have never defended anyone behaving badly. I have never defended abuse, never defended anyone's right to be abusive, never defended anything unethical. What in God's name are you talking about?
Why do you continually do this? perhaps you should calm down and actually READ what I have written.
nicely played but you know the mod edited it out and then gave up and locked the thread I have done nothing you told me I was wrong for saying that customers should behave and in fact said that they had every right to be abusive among other things nicely played nicely played
Anyhow i know what your about at this point in time
you have a double standard you feel and in fact expect that you can swear at csrs and call them idiots and morons and in fact DID defend it and expect CSRS to put up with it and STILL provide service and at the same time expect to be treated well by others
nicely played
by the way isnt calling someone a liar "attacking them" take a word of your own advice stop attacking others and calling them names then you can perhaps put yourself on the pedestal you think you are on
Since you question everything I do
so since I cant' quote you in this thread due to lockage of the other one (what remains of it there is still enough there to say that you in fact do condone in because of course CSR must take abuse cause they are paid for it and still provide service ..)
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ummax
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by ummax Originally posted by Fishermage
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange. EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat. I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need. I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical. If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
No need to lie about what I have said. I have never defended anyone behaving badly. I have never defended abuse, never defended anyone's right to be abusive, never defended anything unethical. What in God's name are you talking about? Why do you continually do this? perhaps you should calm down and actually READ what I have written. nicely played but you know the mod edited it out and then gave up and locked the thread I have done nothing you told me I was wrong for saying that customers should behave and in fact said that they had every right to be abusive among other things nicely played nicely played
Anyhow i know what your about at this point in time you have a double standard you feel and in fact expect that you can swear at csrs and call them idiots and morons and in fact DID defend it and expect CSRS to put up with it and STILL provide service and at the same time expect to be treated well by others nicely played by the way isnt calling someone a liar "attacking them" take a word of your own advice stop attacking others and calling them names then you can perhaps put yourself on the pedestal you think you are on Since you question everything I do so since I cant' quote you in this thread due to lockage of the other one (what remains of it there is still enough there to say that you in fact do condone in because of course CSR must take abuse cause they are paid for it and still provide service ..) I didn't call you a liar; I merely accused you of lying where what I said was concerned. This seems to be one of your major tactics here though, all to defend other people lying to their customers. Ironic.
That's not an attack, that's a simple fact about what you did, and what you are continuing to do.
Now to break it down into simple bites for you...in the other thread, I merely said, NOT that someone has a right to be abusive, but that IF one wants a job in customer service, one has to have a thicker skin than the type that cries "abuse" and hangs up on every customer that calls him and idiot or a moron. By the way, I never even conceded your point that calling someone an idiot or moron even IS "verbal abuse." I personally feel to even that betrays a very thin skin indeed.
A skilled customer service rep knows how to diffuse such anger and turn it into a win for his company. If one is in customer service, and one is not capable of doing that, then one is in the wrong business.
It doesn't condone such action; it merely explains that people who deal with customers have to understand the bromide which you obviously do not: sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me.
Obviously, you imply using the "insome people's minds" that verbal abuse and physical abuse are the same thing. now, I can't tell if you meant this is "your mind" as well, but if it is, I guess this equivalency thing is an issue of yours, since you also equate the combat system in a game and the professions in a game.
Different things are different -- it would serve you well to learn this.
Comments
beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it.
I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp.
Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger.
So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.
Where have you ever seen or heard anyone at any time ever eqyate a combat system to character class anywhere other than in your own mind?
It's not about whether one is analytical or not; it is choosing to equate things that no one has ever equated anywhere at any time.
I'm just wondering where you ever got this idea; I have never seen anyone ever say this.
I have seen people define character classes by combat roles, I have seen many descriptions of how they relate to one another but I have never seen anyone anywhere try and say they are the same thing. If you are not analytical, and therefore didn't come up with this through your own analysis, where did yo get this idea from?
fishermage.blogspot.com
I certainly agree with the fact the professions have an impact on how a character relates to the combat system, but that the combat system, since it is applied to all classes, is not the same as a class/profession.
That said, I think, in your post, you highlights one of the problems with using "hybrid classes" to represent all the previous professions. When you stated "but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any profs" I think you opened my eyes to something. Pre-CU, I would have a role to play in a group or even just to strangers in the wild. Now, the dependency on my chosen profession has been destroyed by the fact anyone can perform those tasks. There is still a level dependency between combat and non-combat (crafting) classes, but the interdependency between combat professions seems greatly reduced or, in some cases, eliminated. The dependency that is there seems to have been dumbed down to more traditional roles of tank, dps, etc.
Naturally, take this with a grain of salt. I've only been back roughly a week (maybe just less then that) and been trying to wrap my head around the changes. My comments are based on my experience so far and tinkering with the different classes. As I stated, the closest I have been able to get to my Master Ranger was BH so seems we came to a similat conclusion on that. Master Architect was easy enough to replicate via Structure Trader, so there are some classes that seem to correlate to Pre-CU/NGE professions.
So, with that all said, I just want to get back on track of my original (and now updated) point; For those who do not believe combat system and profession are one and the same, there has been more then just the significant change to combat that would turn them off to the current game. Reasons may include the combat system, professions, perceived inconsistencies with lore, changes to social options and the general current player demographic among other things. While there may be current tools that attempt to address these "issues", the fact these tools are required may constitute an unacceptable change to what any particular person enjoyed about the older version of the game. Since enjoyment is something subject to the tastes of each unique person, any justification that can be summed up as "well, it's the same, but different" might not have the desired influence.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
do you have a link to the old fashion UI? That may help me out. I am not liking the new UI at all
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
do you have a link to the old fashion UI? That may help me out. I am not liking the new UI at all
http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/forum/index.php
Specifically:
http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/infusions/pro_download_panel/download.php?catid=9
More Specifically:
http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/infusions/pro_download_panel/download.php?did=12
Most Specifically:
http://mods.mandalorians.de/system/infusions/pro_download_panel/file.php?did=12
Edit: Clickies.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
I also have 30 days free and been playing few hours a day. I'm trying to do the legacy on Naboo but it is so boring. Is there no other way to level up? (I know the 10 missions per day from terminals)
Combat is still pretty horrible with all the flashing ball effects and npc running around almost lightspeed. Theres the slider for particle effects in options but that really doesn't help at all. The combat still looks ridiculous even if you set it to zero.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P
Please don't tell me they voted on the official forums?
Because we all know only the "vocal minority" goes there.
well now you have seen another way that some people might look at it. Its not a sin and it doesn't change what is its how I define it. I dont have a tendancy to use a lot of the jargon a lot of people use but that's just me and who I am. So that's life that is how I see it and that is how I play the game. My BH is a rifleman who hunts skins and pitches tents. My medic is a combat medic with the rifleman expertise tree. They essentially work the way I want them too and that's that. Its not realy a debatable issue its how people perceive things in their own right and how they have molded a game to suit them to make them happy. That is how I play my guys and I"m happy and I call my bh a rifleman and my medic a combat medic and all is well with the world. To me it was pretty much a change in combat configuration and not much more. I have no wish to convince you that your interpretation is not correct or to accuse you of obfuscation or whatnot I would ask the same kind of respect in return. This is MY opinion and perception of the game changes not yours. You can have yours and I have mine and that's that.
Enigma -
First I'll say that I enjoyed the CU for most part... and could tolerate some of its faults. But this NGE just takes the f'ng cake.
I logged in yesterday or so for first time in 3 years as well... and I feel exactly the same way as you do man.
I dont even see how this game works, everything from the animations to the ui is just clunky and feels like it was made in ten minutes. Its so hard to click on things I want to attack, and it wont unselect my choices without pressing ESC button. The movement is like Pre-CU/CU sped up in fast forward on a VHS tape. It looks god awful.
All the professions are gone, the ones that remain are only the same in name only.
I cant for life of me see what anyone would find appealing about this game.
And yes, the server population was just barren and devoid of life on any major city.
beacuse not everyone works the same in how they think so to some its going to be part and parcel of the combat system. Since the very first CU and through that NGE that is how I looked at it.
I'm not a particularly analytical person in that respect and not everyone is. I consider them one and the same as they first attempted to work with the original combat system but found that overpowered. My BH was untouchable with the first revamps after the NGE he was rather different and not so insanely overpowered. The skills that were removed are inside the expertise system so they still exist. Rifleman, carbineer etc its still inside the templates that is how I can make an MCM now as I use the expertise system to spec for rifles, carbines etc. BM is still there but its mixes with bio engineer and I can choose to use points in that so its all still there only rearranged. That is how I say it was a combat revamp.
Scouting skills actually pretty much exist but everyone has access to them so technically I can make a scout out of most any proffs although some proffs are better suited to it then others. I do a lot of hunting on my BH and I use him not as a BH but as a rifleman beacuse the system allows it. I harvest, I set up camps etc and I use him as I would a ranger.
So its pretty simple really since I have now a character that can easily be classified as a rifleman (in fact that is the tag I use ) and I have as of late recreated my MCM/rifleman template I can say they still exist because I have those characters back again. The thing that is changed is how they function, the combat stuff etc so its the combat system that has been changed and all the proffs still exist they have simply been shuffled.
Where have you ever seen or heard anyone at any time ever eqyate a combat system to character class anywhere other than in your own mind?
It's not about whether one is analytical or not; it is choosing to equate things that no one has ever equated anywhere at any time.
I'm just wondering where you ever got this idea; I have never seen anyone ever say this.
I have seen people define character classes by combat roles, I have seen many descriptions of how they relate to one another but I have never seen anyone anywhere try and say they are the same thing. If you are not analytical, and therefore didn't come up with this through your own analysis, where did yo get this idea from?
well now you have seen another way that some people might look at it. Its not a sin and it doesn't change what is its how I define it. I dont have a tendancy to use a lot of the jargon a lot of people use but that's just me and who I am. So that's life that is how I see it and that is how I play the game. My BH is a rifleman who hunts skins and pitches tents. My medic is a combat medic with the rifleman expertise tree. They essentially work the way I want them too and that's that. Its not realy a debatable issue its how people perceive things in their own right and how they have molded a game to suit them to make them happy. That is how I play my guys and I"m happy and I call my bh a rifleman and my medic a combat medic and all is well with the world. To me it was pretty much a change in combat configuration and not much more. I have no wish to convince you that your interpretation is not correct or to accuse you of obfuscation or whatnot I would ask the same kind of respect in return. This is MY opinion and perception of the game changes not yours. You can have yours and I have mine and that's that.
the difference is that my way, which is the way everyone dscusses games everywhere in the known universe, at least in this very simple to understand area, that professions and/or classes are one thing and the combat system is another, that they relate but they are far from the same thing -- my way actually facilitates understanding and discussion, whereas yours blurs things, makes them much more difficult to discuss, and here is the obvious rub, much more difficult to criticize because when one person says and means something you can pretend that it's something entirely different.
very bad form indeed, but I quite understand why you do it, knowing your function and purpose on these forums.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Strange, I never knew that removing professions was a combat change. I guess if SOE found that combat was taking to long then deleting medics would be considered a valid combat mechanic change?
I still don't see how removing non-combat professions like ranger and bio-engineer was combat related.
Why is SWG the only game were people justify removing content and features?
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Ummax, you say, "most of the elements that made the game fun are still there," and "maybe you never liked it in the first place."
I don't know if you're trying to pull the wool over this guy's eyes or if you could possibly believe what you're saying.
Most of the elements that made the game fun for me, for example, were:
Being a teras kasi master with kickass combat animations (gone and gone)
Helping my friends find and tame pets, I'd hold off the adults while they tamed the babies (gone)
Being an entertainer, and a Teras Kasi at the same time (gone)
Unlocking a ton of force enhancements in the village to make my Teras Kasi even more kickass, (gone)
Working on my own template using the skillpoint system, making changes I wanted to any profession, anytime (gone)
Shopping at the huge guild malls for the best crafted weapons available (replaced by kill, loot, repeat system, and soon to be replaced by trading card loot that you buy not from ingame crafters but from SOE's online store with real cash--utter b.s,)
Helping my friends work towards unlocking a jedi knight (gone)
Chilling in the cantina and swapping stories with friends about hunts and pvp while we had our mindwounds healed by entertainers (gone).
So ummax, why are you trying to tell this guy that most of the elements are still there, and why would you tell him that he probably didn't like it in the first place?
Go ahead and plug something you enjoy, but at least be honest about it. Also, telling other people what they do and don't like doesn't usually work out too well, fyi.
And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it? New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.
If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.
The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P
Was that the poll where the options were Meatlump King and gardening?
"to most"........................ lol yea right.
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Ummax, you say, "most of the elements that made the game fun are still there," and "maybe you never liked it in the first place."
I don't know if you're trying to pull the wool over this guy's eyes or if you could possibly believe what you're saying.
Most of the elements that made the game fun for me, for example, were:
Being a teras kasi master with kickass combat animations (gone and gone)
Helping my friends find and tame pets, I'd hold off the adults while they tamed the babies (gone)
Being an entertainer, and a Teras Kasi at the same time (gone)
Unlocking a ton of force enhancements in the village to make my Teras Kasi even more kickass, (gone)
Working on my own template using the skillpoint system, making changes I wanted to any profession, anytime (gone)
Shopping at the huge guild malls for the best crafted weapons available (replaced by kill, loot, repeat system, and soon to be replaced by trading card loot that you buy not from ingame crafters but from SOE's online store with real cash--utter b.s,)
Helping my friends work towards unlocking a jedi knight (gone)
Chilling in the cantina and swapping stories with friends about hunts and pvp while we had our mindwounds healed by entertainers (gone).
So ummax, why are you trying to tell this guy that most of the elements are still there, and why would you tell him that he probably didn't like it in the first place?
Go ahead and plug something you enjoy, but at least be honest about it. Also, telling other people what they do and don't like doesn't usually work out too well, fyi.
This is a novel idea i know but usually as people we like something right away and making ourselves like it usualy is a sign we dont actually like it. My suggestion to him was that he probably doesn't like the game and so should probably not waste his time FORCING himself to like it and find another game. Not hard to understand really but if he is trying to like something then he probably doesn't actually like it and will waste his money. I played another game were people told me after my initial impressions of "this game sucks" that if i kept at it that i would LEARN to like it. I did a double take and shook my head. If you dont like something in the first like couple hours of gameplay chances are your gonna like it even less 3 weeks from now when he finds a game he actualy does like.
So not sure what your on about however my thoughts were honest and not based on anything other then the actual posters original comments people however do try to pull threads off topic and I got dragged into that hole by someone only taking part of what I said and leaving out the actualy real message which is that it sounds like he doesn't like the game and should just move on.
the suspicious nature and paranoia that is exhibited sometimes and attempt to read between lines and find actualy motivations on this board is unreal. Bottom line looks like he doens't like the game and should move on. /shrugs
yes i answered the intent of the my original post in this thread not what your trying to turn it into another fight over past and present sorry about that ..
this is the original post I speak of now I know people like to turn things into something else but honestly he doesn't appear to like the game and is forcing himself to learn to like it and should move on I would say because this game is not for him.. (sorry to confuse you)
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
err if your having to make yourself like this game or any game I would think its not for you. I haven't played for 5 years straight but I know many that have they just enjoy it and that's that but having stopped playing games I was told to keep playing and eventually i would learn to like it seems to me a bit odd. So looks like you dont like the present rendition not sure why most of the elements that made the game fun are still there with the exception of the combat system. Everything else is new add ons. All the housing, space blah blah blah is identical to be honest so maybe you never liked it in the first place.
Ummax, you say, "most of the elements that made the game fun are still there," and "maybe you never liked it in the first place."
I don't know if you're trying to pull the wool over this guy's eyes or if you could possibly believe what you're saying.
Most of the elements that made the game fun for me, for example, were:
Being a teras kasi master with kickass combat animations (gone and gone)
Helping my friends find and tame pets, I'd hold off the adults while they tamed the babies (gone)
Being an entertainer, and a Teras Kasi at the same time (gone)
Unlocking a ton of force enhancements in the village to make my Teras Kasi even more kickass, (gone)
Working on my own template using the skillpoint system, making changes I wanted to any profession, anytime (gone)
Shopping at the huge guild malls for the best crafted weapons available (replaced by kill, loot, repeat system, and soon to be replaced by trading card loot that you buy not from ingame crafters but from SOE's online store with real cash--utter b.s,)
Helping my friends work towards unlocking a jedi knight (gone)
Chilling in the cantina and swapping stories with friends about hunts and pvp while we had our mindwounds healed by entertainers (gone).
So ummax, why are you trying to tell this guy that most of the elements are still there, and why would you tell him that he probably didn't like it in the first place?
Go ahead and plug something you enjoy, but at least be honest about it. Also, telling other people what they do and don't like doesn't usually work out too well, fyi.
This is a novel idea i know but usually as people we like something right away and making ourselves like it usualy is a sign we dont actually like it. My suggestion to him was that he probably doesn't like the game and so should probably not waste his time FORCING himself to like it and find another game. Not hard to understand really but if he is trying to like something then he probably doesn't actually like it and will waste his money. I played another game were people told me after my initial impressions of "this game sucks" that if i kept at it that i would LEARN to like it. I did a double take and shook my head. If you dont like something in the first like couple hours of gameplay chances are your gonna like it even less 3 weeks from now when he finds a game he actualy does like.
So not sure what your on about however my thoughts were honest and not based on anything other then the actual posters original comments people however do try to pull threads off topic and I got dragged into that hole by someone only taking part of what I said and leaving out the actualy real message which is that it sounds like he doesn't like the game and should just move on.
the suspicious nature and paranoia that is exhibited sometimes and attempt to read between lines and find actualy motivations on this board is unreal. Bottom line looks like he doens't like the game and should move on. /shrugs
yes i answered the intent of the my original post in this thread not what your trying to turn it into another fight over past and present sorry about that ..
When you continually defend and support unethical behavior, peope have reason to question your motivations.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread?
fishermage.blogspot.com
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread
I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat.
I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need.
I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical.
If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
ummax, are you playing a different SWG than the rest of us? If not, you are seriously misguided.
How is the game essentially the same?
Player housing is still in, that's it. The combat is downgraded. No skill system, which was what made SWG so appealing in the first place. The economy is dead, inflated, and loot-based, NOT player-driven. Instancing is how they add content now. No expansions.
The only thing that is the same are the bugs and housing. That's it, that's all.
It appears you are just confused.
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread
I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat.
I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need.
I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical.
If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
No need to lie about what I have said. I have never defended anyone behaving badly. I have never defended abuse, never defended anyone's right to be abusive, never defended anything unethical. What in God's name are you talking about?
Why do you continually do this? perhaps you should calm down and actually READ what I have written.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Bioware and Lucas Arts I believe will make up for SOE's pathetic fail cascade.
SHOHADAKU
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread
I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat.
I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need.
I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical.
If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
No need to lie about what I have said. I have never defended anyone behaving badly. I have never defended abuse, never defended anyone's right to be abusive, never defended anything unethical. What in God's name are you talking about?
Why do you continually do this? perhaps you should calm down and actually READ what I have written.
nicely played but you know the mod edited it out and then gave up and locked the thread I have done nothing you told me I was wrong for saying that customers should behave and in fact said that they had every right to be abusive among other things nicely played nicely played
Anyhow i know what your about at this point in time
you have a double standard you feel and in fact expect that you can swear at csrs and call them idiots and morons and in fact DID defend it and expect CSRS to put up with it and STILL provide service and at the same time expect to be treated well by others
nicely played
by the way isnt calling someone a liar "attacking them" take a word of your own advice stop attacking others and calling them names then you can perhaps put yourself on the pedestal you think you are on
Since you question everything I do
so since I cant' quote you in this thread due to lockage of the other one (what remains of it there is still enough there to say that you in fact do condone in because of course CSR must take abuse cause they are paid for it and still provide service ..)
I questions yours so i guess we are even then seems that some enjoy abusing CSR's and somehow things its justified among other things. You have the right to be angry but not to become abusive while angry we are no longer cave men and can in fact control our emotions or should be able to.
I am not the least bit angry, nor have I ever been; I merely believe that unethical behavior is wrong. You evidently don't, which is fine; the question is why do you come on these forums and attack people who don't believe in such behavior? That strikes me as very strange.
EDIT: also why not deal with the other issue in the other thread
I would ask you the same if you read what you have said to me about things in this thread why do you defend bad behaviour and feel a need to defend it as in its okay same deal only you seem to feel that humanity should behave badly to each other where as I do not. I have not attacked anyone but its a nice buzzword to use. You are in fact the one who outwardly tells me or told me I am wrong and basically have tried to say that I have some sort of issue of how I see how the Combat is set up and argue with me on my viewpoint of why I consider what has occured part of combat.
I have not tried to disuade you or even batted an eyelid on what you have said your busy attempting to put me on the defensive and have stated you question my "motives". So i'm now throwing it back at you why do you feel the need to put a poster on the defensive or attack them if you will and question their motives. The minute someone says that to me I start to think hrm if they question mine I should start questioning them. So far the one doing the attacking in this thread is in fact YOU. as far as the last post you have not read it correctly the you is not directed at you as in the english language you can' be singular or plural I reffered to the general plural you and have not anywhere stated you are in fact angry. HOwever you feel a need to say that your not so I would then say why do you feel that need.
I too can speak nonsense so now that you are done tearing me apart as a human being and saying I defend unethical behaviour and defending abusive behaviour in your own right are we done now? because these converstaions in fact do not belong on these boards as they boarder on personal issues. Quite frankly defending people's right to be abusive is well an aweful thing. Abuse is abuse and verbal abuse is no better then physical abuse only in some people's minds it is but its the same thing and is simply abuse. If you would not hit someone with a baseball bat for not knowing the correct answer (at least I hope you would not) why would you feel it okay to be verbally abusive to someone. Yet at the same time you question that I defend unethical behaviour? That's totally illogical.
If you expect no better from the customer I would expect no better from the company. So question my motives if you wil but I have not attacked anyone on this board. Nice try though more power words for you to use.
No need to lie about what I have said. I have never defended anyone behaving badly. I have never defended abuse, never defended anyone's right to be abusive, never defended anything unethical. What in God's name are you talking about?
Why do you continually do this? perhaps you should calm down and actually READ what I have written.
nicely played but you know the mod edited it out and then gave up and locked the thread I have done nothing you told me I was wrong for saying that customers should behave and in fact said that they had every right to be abusive among other things nicely played nicely played
Anyhow i know what your about at this point in time
you have a double standard you feel and in fact expect that you can swear at csrs and call them idiots and morons and in fact DID defend it and expect CSRS to put up with it and STILL provide service and at the same time expect to be treated well by others
nicely played
by the way isnt calling someone a liar "attacking them" take a word of your own advice stop attacking others and calling them names then you can perhaps put yourself on the pedestal you think you are on
Since you question everything I do
so since I cant' quote you in this thread due to lockage of the other one (what remains of it there is still enough there to say that you in fact do condone in because of course CSR must take abuse cause they are paid for it and still provide service ..)
I didn't call you a liar; I merely accused you of lying where what I said was concerned. This seems to be one of your major tactics here though, all to defend other people lying to their customers. Ironic.
That's not an attack, that's a simple fact about what you did, and what you are continuing to do.
Now to break it down into simple bites for you...in the other thread, I merely said, NOT that someone has a right to be abusive, but that IF one wants a job in customer service, one has to have a thicker skin than the type that cries "abuse" and hangs up on every customer that calls him and idiot or a moron. By the way, I never even conceded your point that calling someone an idiot or moron even IS "verbal abuse." I personally feel to even that betrays a very thin skin indeed.
A skilled customer service rep knows how to diffuse such anger and turn it into a win for his company. If one is in customer service, and one is not capable of doing that, then one is in the wrong business.
It doesn't condone such action; it merely explains that people who deal with customers have to understand the bromide which you obviously do not: sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me.
Obviously, you imply using the "insome people's minds" that verbal abuse and physical abuse are the same thing. now, I can't tell if you meant this is "your mind" as well, but if it is, I guess this equivalency thing is an issue of yours, since you also equate the combat system in a game and the professions in a game.
Different things are different -- it would serve you well to learn this.
fishermage.blogspot.com