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I hope the PvP here is nothing like WoW
zethcarn
Member UncommonPosts: 1,558
The class balance in WoW is a complete and utter joke. Resilience + Overpowered healing makes for some 10 min boring-as-paint-drying fights. Infact I've noticed that if one team has more healers (even by 1) they win about 99% of time. Spell pushback is also something incredibly stupid that is in WoW but I hope is not in WAR.
This shouldn't really surprise anyone though. WoW is first and foremost a raiding grind game. The classes are balanced around raiding first, PvP second. Balancing them together is impossible.
Anyway here's to crossing my fingers they don't ruin PvP like WoW pvp is ruined.
Comments
I doubt that they will. They've worked too hard and have too many people counting on them. WoW PvP = failure.
I love that this game is based around tons vs tons of people. There's no one hit crits and a lvl 40 won't be able to take down 3 other lvl 40s because he has 'uberpwnagezomgifudonthaveufailatpvploln00bl2pvpscrub' armor. Yes...that was necessary
Edit: woooo...I need to go to sleep >.< typos
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Wow pvp does need work. When a lvl 70 casts an attack spell on another lvl 70 it should not be fully resisted. But some guys do have 320+ resilience and are almost invincible.
wow is 99.9% gear based, and had PvP taked on as an after thought.
WAR is claiming 60% gear based (meaning your gear should account for 60% of your characters power), and was developed with RvR as the true goal.
the one thing mythic has going for them is that they already have a good idea about balancing classes around rvr and making it fun at the same time. They did an excellent job(for the most part) tweaking classes in daoc and are always coming out with patches and tweaks to balance gameplay.
I personally didn't like the way wow implemented pvp since it i didn't feel it was on par with the emphasis they put on raiding. I guess we can't blame them since raiding is the bread and butter of the game.
Don't worry, Mythic already has a great game with the best PvP on the market. DAoC, this will build on its success. Nothing like WoW's garbage.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Luckily the classes are being balanced for pvp first and the monsters are being scaled for whatever that balance ends up being. Also DAOC pvp was fast and furious (cept for when mass CC was employed...) so I'd expect direct confrontations between a couple chars would end pretty quickly. Something like a siege can last forever though.
There is no PvP in WAR, only RvR.
Chant it daily as your mantra, and you'll start looking forward to the launch more and more.
Well WAR from the start is balanced around PvP with PvE designed around it.
The only similarity to wow is the scenario's, which are essentially war's bg's.
However, these are timed events and have a definitive ending (unlike wsg). There are also 3-4 per tier as well so more variety.
It's the rvr battefronts/keeps which are the bread and butter of the system though.
I think the renown system coupled with the guild ranking system is where the game is going shine. Just wondering how they are going to come up with 80 rank titles though
While I hate the 10 minute boring no one makes any headway until a healer is OOM fights. I also hate the Insta-gib fights where people drop like flies as soon as they reach the battlefront again. Mages back when Warriors arcanite reaper was one of the best weapons would EXPLODE when a warrior hit them. It got better when they balanced it but as soon as BWL was cleared or High warlord gear was bought it was back to being exploded.
That being said I believe that there will be a whole different dynamic to WAR PvP than there is in WoW PvP. Everytime you die you essentialy make your opponent stronger so I think people will be quite a bit more cautious about suicide runs and keep with the group.
It's funny you say that cause a PvP spec'd warrior does as much damage if not more then a PvP spec'd rogue. They get to wear plate armor and have ~2k more HP and be on par with a rogues damage. It's pretty stupid.
Regarding the balance in WoW vs the balance in WAR. Since all of you know that RvR will contain "_lots_ of ppl versus _lots_ of ppl" -fights, 1on1 will by logical reasoning be more unbalanced in WAR than what is it in WoW.
It's funny you say that cause a PvP spec'd warrior does as much damage if not more then a PvP spec'd rogue. They get to wear plate armor and have ~2k more HP and be on par with a rogues damage. It's pretty stupid.
Warriors are a rogue's counter class, don't cry about it. 2.5k Overpower crits and Second Wind. The only problem is, rogues are much better against casters and warriors get steamrolled by casters (well, not warlocks, but they could DoT you up and you might die after anyways). And even with Mortal Strike, I see heals popping for 2 or 3k...what the hell is that about? I think it reduces healing by 5%, not 50% and it's an error in the code.
Now that my WoW memories are over, I'm glad Mythic has had experience with PvP and they're balancing their classes around PvP first and PvE second. Because really, who do you think is smarter or stronger? A boss that has a set fight pattern, set damage, set HP, and that can be tweaked easily with coding, or a living, breathing opponent that has different fighting styles, different amounts of stats, focus on either damage dealing or suvivability...the list goes on, but it's obvious that PvP is much harder to balance if you focus on PvE first.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I highly doubt blizzard did any true or lenghty pvp testing b4 it put out the pvp. WAR is being tested contstantly for its RvR content. Also with its extensive testing the balance issues shouldnt be bad at all.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
They changed crap up until the last minute to have any balance at all. Paladins used to have the strike system which was changed to the blessings system right before beta ended. Mages had Invis removed which was a major mechanic for them at the time. Hunters were added a month before beta ended if I remember correctly. They really ddn't even try to balance the classes but rather just take out the glaringly OP things and save the rest for later.
first you say they didn't even try to balance the classes and in your same breath you tell me that blizzard actually balanced..
And keep in mind Mythic did battlegrounds in DAOC way before WOW came out, so if anything scenarios are just a natural progression from their own system.
RvR is just a variation of PvP; just like Raiding is just a variation of PvE. To a more on-topic: the classes will probably be slightly unbalanced and there will most likely never a perfect balance; but hopefully they'll at least try make it closer to perfect than Blizzard has done. If PvP is fun will depend a lot on whether or not the balancing is well-done; and hopefully Mythic will realize that and focus much on balancing.
I can't wait for the massive wars that happen because one asshole 1337pvperpwnerofthosen00bz thinks this is WoW and he can gank people and get away with it.
You call up your people...kick the shit outa him. He calls up his 1337pvper friends that have never played as a team before and - BAM - there lies their e-peens on the ground. *cackles* o this is going to be so fun.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Wrong impression to give to people your just spouting propaganda. At the heart of RVR is PVP thats why people are buying it - to say there is no PVP in WAR is both wrong and misleading.
WAR is FULL of PVP the fact that when you PVE and do quests your are also helping the cause i.e. RVR does not mean its essentially a PVP game.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
What he said. WAR is balanced around RvR not 1vs1, so there will be imbalances between classes. Just like in other game.
The rock, scissors, paper relationship between classes appears to be a lot more rigid in this game than it was when wow first launched.
Much of this can be offset by gear, renown levels (tactics), talent builds and many other factors.
One thing is for sure, one or two shotting people is not going to happen. Of course assist trains will still get you an insta-gib
Wrong impression to give to people your just spouting propaganda. At the heart of RVR is PVP thats why people are buying it - to say there is no PVP in WAR is both wrong and misleading.
WAR is FULL of PVP the fact that when you PVE and do quests your are also helping the cause i.e. RVR does not mean its essentially a PVP game.
QFT.
Though there is some confusion regarding the term "RvR" (largely because Mythic overuses the word in order to emphasize its importance - like "RvR areas" etc) it is quite clear what it means. RvR = PvE + PvP. A seamless combination of both - PvE influences the PvP and vice versa. This is quite different from WoW which keeps those two as separate as it can.
Killing other side's quest givers to make them weaker = RvR
Conquering a zone through PvP to get access to a l33t PvE dungeon = RvR
I guess I'm just tired of the misconception around the term "PvP", in that most people think it means either Dueling (1v1) or group combat (XvY). The term got it's start way back in the 90's with MUDs and early MMORPGs like UO and AC, where battles were almost always 1v1. That conception has followed through to many games now, and a lot of people are anti-PvP because of it.
Many of those people don't know what DAoC did for Player vs Player, in turning it into a more global based experience where literally hundreds could participate, and the old 1v1 and group vs group almost disappeared.
Now we're integrating PvE, public quests, and large scale conflict of players vs players into a total RvR experience, which has little to nothing to do with the original meaning of PvP (that of 1v1 or few vs few).
I think we really need to pound it into people's heads that this is NOT typical player conflict, and it goes way beyond the meaning of PvP. So much in fact that I don't think the term "PvP" should apply to WAR to begin with, since "RvR" means so much more. Hence the reason I made my first statement.
I agree that PvP has gotten a somewhat shady reputation - mainly due to really poor implementation in recently popular games.
However, IMO we shouldn't go as far as to reinvent the vocabulary. PvP is player vs player... very simple. IMO it is quite enough to point out to the uninformed that Warhammer contains a lot of PvP and it's been done right.. and its particular brand is called RvR because it takes your basic PvP and makes it meaningful by giving it a context, global consequence and a real story. In addition in WAR you can PvP (fight other players) on a global level by doing PvE only - and that's RvR too.