I might also add that KOREA is light years ahead of the world when comes to gaming[not to be confused with development],they also have millions more gamers than the rest of the world ,so it's no wonder item malls and other marketing ideas begin over there first.
There was a huge protest on a Korean forum a year ago because RMT was introduced in a game.
You buy a chest, you open it and there a chance for an item, but 9/10 times it's nothing.
A lot of people have left that game because of RMT. I'm just saying that not everyone like RMT in asia, a lot seem to be against it lately.
It seems like the real question here is: Why are westerners so prejudging towards Asians?
I'm asian and I hate to grind. I know a bunch of other asians who also hate to grind. In fact leveling up in WoW was way too much of a grind for them... LEVELING UP IN WOW WAS TOO MUCH OF A GRIND FOR ASIANS!? NO WAY!
Edit: btw we are all Chinese, too. Can you believe we don't farm for gold then sell it!? We're such an anomaly that someone should do a documentary on us!
ROFL.
Lemmeeeee guess. you use Kill Bots to farm the farmers so you can go eat Noodles J/K.
i too wonder why asian or korean people think its fun to mindlessly run up to mobs and hit it every time it spawn non stop. even the quests is mindless.
2 reasons come to mind right off the top of my head.....
1.) The Asian market seems to like games that have a higher emphasis on PvP than PvE questing. They like many Westerners think that battling other players is far more gratifying then killing AI mobs even though most of their games involve endless grinding on the AI to get to the good PvP. The main difference is the PvP in Asian market games usually has some world defining meaning to it, usually in the form of Clan/Guild territorial control.
2.) The Asian mentality that anything worth having is worth a lot of effort to achieve. This permiates Asian society on the whole and it reflects in their games. (This is meant as a complement to Asians so please don't start accusing me of stereotyping like some asshats on this forum like to do.)
These seem to be the main 2 reasons although there may be more.
Bren
insightful post.
however if they value pvp so much why aren't pvp only games very successful there?
I want customization and freedom and lots of social tools, basically I just want a 2008 standard Star Wars Galaxies type game but with Quests instead of the boring grinding and made by Blizzard so it's not buggy lol.
---------------------------------------- Talking about SWG much?
First off, I don't think they grind anymore than we do.
Second, I think grinding itself is more of a Western invention than anything else. For a lot of Asian gamers, MMO gaming is like this:
They go to a cafe, and they decide which of the games that they have an account to, which could be dozens, they're going to play. They pick the one which is the most fun, then they play it for a few hours, usually 1-4. They don't mind that they're not going to reach max level fast. They just play for fun. For them, fun may not be decking themselves out in phat endgame loots. It's merely doing something interesting as part of a group. Notice how much bigger widescale PvP is in Asian MMO's than Western games.
Most Asian games aren't sub-based. It's only in the West that you have to drop a financial investment to even get your foot in the door, then an additional investment to access the service each month. You're not choosing from a lot of games to play because you can't sub to that many at once. So if you get bored, you might end up playing something you really don't want to. Hence the "grind". You're just going through the motions because you think the future of that game will bring something more enjoyable. Or you're just playing as a timesink, which can feel equally grindy. If you don't feel like playing, your only choices are to not play and let your subscription money go to waste or cancel and deprive yourself of even having the option to play, neither of which is really appealing until you're completely bored of the game.
Then there's just plain cultural differences. People are more the same than they are different, but I think that, generally speaking, Asian cultures are more group-oriented while Western cultures are more individualistic. In a lot of Western games, guilds are more a cooperative than a family. Even in the highest-end guilds, many people will just be there as a means to an end, to get phat loot or personal protection. To use a WoW example, look at Death and Taxes. Once the best American raiding guild, they disbanded recently. One of the things the GM wrote in his final letter was that too many people had joined who just wanted to pick up their weekly epics. That's where the perception of "grind" can come in. If your main goal is just to get in-game prestige through PvE, things will start to seem boring very quickly, even high-end raiding. If you actually want to accomplish things as a group as your primary aim, things you're competing against others to do, suddenly the challenge can make things interesting. That's why a lot of Asian games, even the lower-end F2P's, feature large PvP raids to take control of dungeons or other things.
They play together in internet cafes. Gaming is a social thing where they are not sitting at home alone. They are out with their friends in the same room laughing and playing. The grind is not so bad when you got all yer buddies around you and lots of out of game distractions.
If you are old enough to remember the golden days of the Arcade or Video Gaming Parlors you will understand it more. Once upon a time you had to leave the house to play video games, it was a social thing where people would compete to get the high score.
For more information on this see a movie called Nightmares and look for the Bishop of Battle story. Thats how it was except for the supernatural part and there was always a few drug dealers around in real life.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
First off, I don't think they grind anymore than we do. Second, I think grinding itself is more of a Western invention than anything else. For a lot of Asian gamers, MMO gaming is like this: They go to a cafe, and they decide which of the games that they have an account to, which could be dozens, they're going to play. They pick the one which is the most fun, then they play it for a few hours, usually 1-4. They don't mind that they're not going to reach max level fast. They just play for fun. For them, fun may not be decking themselves out in phat endgame loots. It's merely doing something interesting as part of a group. Notice how much bigger widescale PvP is in Asian MMO's than Western games. Most Asian games aren't sub-based. It's only in the West that you have to drop a financial investment to even get your foot in the door, then an additional investment to access the service each month. You're not choosing from a lot of games to play because you can't sub to that many at once. So if you get bored, you might end up playing something you really don't want to. Hence the "grind". You're just going through the motions because you think the future of that game will bring something more enjoyable. Or you're just playing as a timesink, which can feel equally grindy. If you don't feel like playing, your only choices are to not play and let your subscription money go to waste or cancel and deprive yourself of even having the option to play, neither of which is really appealing until you're completely bored of the game. Then there's just plain cultural differences. People are more the same than they are different, but I think that, generally speaking, Asian cultures are more group-oriented while Western cultures are more individualistic. In a lot of Western games, guilds are more a cooperative than a family. Even in the highest-end guilds, many people will just be there as a means to an end, to get phat loot or personal protection. To use a WoW example, look at Death and Taxes. Once the best American raiding guild, they disbanded recently. One of the things the GM wrote in his final letter was that too many people had joined who just wanted to pick up their weekly epics. That's where the perception of "grind" can come in. If your main goal is just to get in-game prestige through PvE, things will start to seem boring very quickly, even high-end raiding. If you actually want to accomplish things as a group as your primary aim, things you're competing against others to do, suddenly the challenge can make things interesting. That's why a lot of Asian games, even the lower-end F2P's, feature large PvP raids to take control of dungeons or other things.
An insightful post. However, it does not answer my question as to why most of the Asian games follow the same monotonous route. Go out kill x amount of mobs. Level. Go to the next area to kill tougher mobs, Level. Repeat.
Nothing in the way of a story-line (at least nothing that involves the gameplay). Few if any quests. No rp. Just the same drone-like model which is used in most of the games.
If they are so community based, and only play in cafe's for a certain length of time, then why aren't their games more story based, where they can group up and tackle dungeons, face challenges that require a group? You would think that they would be more into this play style than us Westerners.
I remember when I was a very young kid, hearing about these Japanese guys who used to play Space Invaders for 24 hours straight. So perhaps it is just an extension of this.
Could it be as simple as the only choice of games available in their native language until relatively recently was Lineage. Seems the most logical reason.
I'm not buying the rubbish about social and community differences effecting whether they like grinding games or not, that's armchair psychology and nonsense.
People are far more similar than some of you seem to think, I have lived in several different countries through the years, and the one thing that always strikes me is how similar everyone is wherever you go, most of the differences nowadays is just fluff.
Could it be as simple as the only choice of games available in their native language until relatively recently was Lineage. Seems the most logical reason. I'm not buying the rubbish about social and community differences effecting whether they like grinding games or not, that's armchair psychology and nonsense. People are far more similar than some of you seem to think, I have lived in several different countries through the years, and the one thing that always strikes me is how similar everyone is wherever you go, most of the differences nowadays is just fluff.
Eh? I think there are probably more Asian MMO's than there are Westen ones, so I don't see how you get that. One of the biggest is Legend of Mir, which has more subs than any Western game bar WoW, so Lineage1 and 2 whilst being massively popular in countries like Korea, are hardly the only choice!
Marketing kids games to kids, and mature games to adults is not stereotyping. It's a demographic. When Different cultures certainly have different aesthetics. When people are willing to play a grind game, even if it is 100% identical to every other grind game, the marketing department will give them a grind game.
I don't know whether it's the aesthetic, or perhaps people can relate to grinding in real life? I just don't know. The point is that there is a huge market for grind games in Asia. If it's there, companies will supply.
1) I have a conspiracy theory that they are so grindy because it lets RMT have a longer lifespan to make online gold to sell for real money in order for them to afford rice, and eat.
2) Remember that Korean dude who didn't take a shit for like 3 days because he was grinding and refused to get off the computer... then died shortly after? ... yeah I forgot what game that was. (It was a Korean grinder)
ei majestico do you hate us so much? o.O im confused now since youve gotten a lot of answers and yet you keep on pushing your now very annoying topic >.< if you ask me mmorpg is mmorpg FOR PLAYERS WHO WISH TO PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE if your asking us dont we like STORY QUEST games? i would rather PLAY FFs on my console, NVN, Oblivion(elderscrolls series) and my much love Gothic series in my damn PC, so just give it up on your topic since it has been answered alot ALREADY.
I think it has to do with art more than anything really. I mean, look at all the anime. If you watch any five different series, you'll soon realise about the only things different about them is the character art and possibly setting. From what I can gather, it's all about the art, because the story and characters (probably other than the names) are almost identical.
You have the hero, who doesn't understand his true potential, but sometimes exposes it and is completely unyielding to any other force of nature or otherwise, and is probably either a complete loose canon, or is a lone wolf.
Then you have the love interest, who is full of idealistic insight, that always tells the hero what they can learn from every encounter. Sometimes this character is just a really close friend/relative. This person has always overcome some crazy traumatic experience, which enables them to be so attuned to the wisdom of life. In other words, they appreciate life so much, that it's all they can talk about.
Then, whether the hero is the lone wolf archetype or not, you will always have another lone wolf character who helps the hero demonstrate the awesome power they possess. If there is any character that could really conquer the hero, it's this character, because they never let passion or emotion get int he way of what they have to do. Also, these guys know everything there is to know about any situation. If some new foe shows up, they're the first to tell everyone about everything there is to know about this new scumbag.
Then you have the badguy. The badguy is always slightly more powerful than the hero, but only because he has the upperhand. I swear, these guys have the initiative for 15 episodes. After that, the hero does something that the badguy doesn't expect, and is taken by surprise. But then the badguy just "powers up" and unleashes his most devistating blow that seems to be unparralleled, until the hero realises something.
What is that something? That his friends love him no matter what. Only when he knows this can he unleash his true power.
This same garbage happens in every single anime there ever was. Except Cowboy Bebop.... which is why I liked it so much. Spike is a badass, and he doesn't care who knows it. Also, he doesn't care if he can beat the badguy or not - he's gonna bust in there packing all big and bad either way. That's why I liked his character. Win or lose, he's all in.
If you look at Final Fantasy, you'll see that every game is exactly the same, but people still love each and every one that comes out. Why? Becuase of the art - it's the only thing different.
Honestly i prefer quests that tell me to kill "x" monsters. Finished the quest, you earned the reward and experience. In addition you get the monster's loots and experience from killing it. Its a double win situation.
I dont think you would be enjoying the story quest once you start leveling your 2nd toon.
Im asian and i actually dont like grinding but i will do so if its worth it. If grinding will let me be the strongest in pvp/pk the i will grind till i become so...... so its pretty much about working hard to get something. I dont think most asians "like" to grind... but they will put up with it and patiently so. Maybe the western culture isnt so much about working hard but rather lazy and taking the easy road out.
Errr I thought many asian mmo's were grindy simply because it's a good way to introduce this style of gaming to that market. Eventually, and it already is, the grind will easy off and disappear to be replaced with 'content'. And not necessarily story driven content I might add.. I don't want to get into that whole story questing grind vs mob and number grindage, because in the end if you like at both these styles they are BOTH grinds.
And in a game that gives the max level easily, it will usually demand a grind of another kind. Faction grind, gear grind, you name it. It's deciding which kind you can live with and like the best that is the factor. I don't believe in the popular thinking that asian games are worst grinds then western games, it's just different and masked in western games while in eastern games it's a lot more obvious because many of the free to play games are simpler. They are free. ^_~
Small example in WoW you've spent a year leveling 3 or 4 character to max level and getting gear and crafting and what not, in an eastern game you've spent the same amount of time on leveling one character. Which is one is better and more enjoyable? The first to me sounds like a game that caters to the ultra casual gamer, or the disposable gamer, and the latter seems to cater to the dedicated individual who likes to work on one class and really master it. It sounds like I'm championing the latter, I'm not. I don't like most eastern games, they are not for me in the package presented, however I won't be deluded enough to think my western games are better, because I often MMO hop and am in a constant unsatisfied state with those games.
Honestly I think there needs to be a nice compromise between both styles, a balance that I actually do believe will come, one day. ^_^ FFXI was already a nice try, but it's still missing a few things, I found that even though they made some awesome decisions for their expansions at higher levels they never added that much content for lower tiers, maybe that would have helped with newer players and players who left out of frustration.
This is a terribly racist thread. That's like asking why black people like watermelon so much.
You know this kind of wet liberal thinking really cheeses me off. I bet you are the type of person who calls a 'manhole cover' a 'personhole cover'.
I opened the thread to find out why people like a particular kind of game. I thought if I could understand the reasoning behind it, then I would be able to extract some enjoyment from these games as well, seeing as most are free2play. It so happens that those games are Eastern, and therefore I wanted to know the cultural mind-set that meant that thiis type of game was so radically different to the games played in the West. Now if you think that is racist, then you have to look at yourself.
You see buddy, I bet the difference between us is this.
I speak to a man.
You speak to that same man, but notice he is black, and so modify your behaviour so as too appear that you are not aware of his race.
I don't care a jot about a person's ethnicity. However I am interested in different countries, as I like to travel.
Comments
There was a huge protest on a Korean forum a year ago because RMT was introduced in a game.
You buy a chest, you open it and there a chance for an item, but 9/10 times it's nothing.
A lot of people have left that game because of RMT. I'm just saying that not everyone like RMT in asia, a lot seem to be against it lately.
I'm asian and I hate to grind. I know a bunch of other asians who also hate to grind. In fact leveling up in WoW was way too much of a grind for them... LEVELING UP IN WOW WAS TOO MUCH OF A GRIND FOR ASIANS!? NO WAY!
Edit: btw we are all Chinese, too. Can you believe we don't farm for gold then sell it!? We're such an anomaly that someone should do a documentary on us!
ROFL.
Lemmeeeee guess. you use Kill Bots to farm the farmers so you can go eat Noodles
J/K.
It's not that they like to grind. They like the challenge
i too wonder why asian or korean people think its fun to mindlessly run up to mobs and hit it every time it spawn non stop. even the quests is mindless.
mindless challenge
insightful post.
however if they value pvp so much why aren't pvp only games very successful there?
I want customization and freedom and lots of social tools, basically I just want a 2008 standard Star Wars Galaxies type game but with Quests instead of the boring grinding and made by Blizzard so it's not buggy lol.
----------------------------------------
Talking about SWG much?
First off, I don't think they grind anymore than we do.
Second, I think grinding itself is more of a Western invention than anything else. For a lot of Asian gamers, MMO gaming is like this:
They go to a cafe, and they decide which of the games that they have an account to, which could be dozens, they're going to play. They pick the one which is the most fun, then they play it for a few hours, usually 1-4. They don't mind that they're not going to reach max level fast. They just play for fun. For them, fun may not be decking themselves out in phat endgame loots. It's merely doing something interesting as part of a group. Notice how much bigger widescale PvP is in Asian MMO's than Western games.
Most Asian games aren't sub-based. It's only in the West that you have to drop a financial investment to even get your foot in the door, then an additional investment to access the service each month. You're not choosing from a lot of games to play because you can't sub to that many at once. So if you get bored, you might end up playing something you really don't want to. Hence the "grind". You're just going through the motions because you think the future of that game will bring something more enjoyable. Or you're just playing as a timesink, which can feel equally grindy. If you don't feel like playing, your only choices are to not play and let your subscription money go to waste or cancel and deprive yourself of even having the option to play, neither of which is really appealing until you're completely bored of the game.
Then there's just plain cultural differences. People are more the same than they are different, but I think that, generally speaking, Asian cultures are more group-oriented while Western cultures are more individualistic. In a lot of Western games, guilds are more a cooperative than a family. Even in the highest-end guilds, many people will just be there as a means to an end, to get phat loot or personal protection. To use a WoW example, look at Death and Taxes. Once the best American raiding guild, they disbanded recently. One of the things the GM wrote in his final letter was that too many people had joined who just wanted to pick up their weekly epics. That's where the perception of "grind" can come in. If your main goal is just to get in-game prestige through PvE, things will start to seem boring very quickly, even high-end raiding. If you actually want to accomplish things as a group as your primary aim, things you're competing against others to do, suddenly the challenge can make things interesting. That's why a lot of Asian games, even the lower-end F2P's, feature large PvP raids to take control of dungeons or other things.
They play together in internet cafes. Gaming is a social thing where they are not sitting at home alone. They are out with their friends in the same room laughing and playing. The grind is not so bad when you got all yer buddies around you and lots of out of game distractions.
If you are old enough to remember the golden days of the Arcade or Video Gaming Parlors you will understand it more. Once upon a time you had to leave the house to play video games, it was a social thing where people would compete to get the high score.
For more information on this see a movie called Nightmares and look for the Bishop of Battle story. Thats how it was except for the supernatural part and there was always a few drug dealers around in real life.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
An insightful post. However, it does not answer my question as to why most of the Asian games follow the same monotonous route. Go out kill x amount of mobs. Level. Go to the next area to kill tougher mobs, Level. Repeat.
Nothing in the way of a story-line (at least nothing that involves the gameplay). Few if any quests. No rp. Just the same drone-like model which is used in most of the games.
If they are so community based, and only play in cafe's for a certain length of time, then why aren't their games more story based, where they can group up and tackle dungeons, face challenges that require a group? You would think that they would be more into this play style than us Westerners.
I remember when I was a very young kid, hearing about these Japanese guys who used to play Space Invaders for 24 hours straight. So perhaps it is just an extension of this.
Could it be as simple as the only choice of games available in their native language until relatively recently was Lineage. Seems the most logical reason.
I'm not buying the rubbish about social and community differences effecting whether they like grinding games or not, that's armchair psychology and nonsense.
People are far more similar than some of you seem to think, I have lived in several different countries through the years, and the one thing that always strikes me is how similar everyone is wherever you go, most of the differences nowadays is just fluff.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Eh? I think there are probably more Asian MMO's than there are Westen ones, so I don't see how you get that. One of the biggest is Legend of Mir, which has more subs than any Western game bar WoW, so Lineage1 and 2 whilst being massively popular in countries like Korea, are hardly the only choice!
This is a terribly racist thread. That's like asking why black people like watermelon so much.
It's not exactly racist, mate.
Marketing kids games to kids, and mature games to adults is not stereotyping. It's a demographic. When Different cultures certainly have different aesthetics. When people are willing to play a grind game, even if it is 100% identical to every other grind game, the marketing department will give them a grind game.
I don't know whether it's the aesthetic, or perhaps people can relate to grinding in real life? I just don't know. The point is that there is a huge market for grind games in Asia. If it's there, companies will supply.
"JP PTY ONRY"
1) I have a conspiracy theory that they are so grindy because it lets RMT have a longer lifespan to make online gold to sell for real money in order for them to afford rice, and eat.
2) Remember that Korean dude who didn't take a shit for like 3 days because he was grinding and refused to get off the computer... then died shortly after? ... yeah I forgot what game that was. (It was a Korean grinder)
Didn't take a shit for 3 days and died?
Honestly I havn't shit for a week before and I'm still quite alive.
He died because he wasn't eating or drinking. And it was Lineage 2
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
Yeah that makes more sense.
I think it has to do with art more than anything really. I mean, look at all the anime. If you watch any five different series, you'll soon realise about the only things different about them is the character art and possibly setting. From what I can gather, it's all about the art, because the story and characters (probably other than the names) are almost identical.
You have the hero, who doesn't understand his true potential, but sometimes exposes it and is completely unyielding to any other force of nature or otherwise, and is probably either a complete loose canon, or is a lone wolf.
Then you have the love interest, who is full of idealistic insight, that always tells the hero what they can learn from every encounter. Sometimes this character is just a really close friend/relative. This person has always overcome some crazy traumatic experience, which enables them to be so attuned to the wisdom of life. In other words, they appreciate life so much, that it's all they can talk about.
Then, whether the hero is the lone wolf archetype or not, you will always have another lone wolf character who helps the hero demonstrate the awesome power they possess. If there is any character that could really conquer the hero, it's this character, because they never let passion or emotion get int he way of what they have to do. Also, these guys know everything there is to know about any situation. If some new foe shows up, they're the first to tell everyone about everything there is to know about this new scumbag.
Then you have the badguy. The badguy is always slightly more powerful than the hero, but only because he has the upperhand. I swear, these guys have the initiative for 15 episodes. After that, the hero does something that the badguy doesn't expect, and is taken by surprise. But then the badguy just "powers up" and unleashes his most devistating blow that seems to be unparralleled, until the hero realises something.
What is that something? That his friends love him no matter what. Only when he knows this can he unleash his true power.
This same garbage happens in every single anime there ever was. Except Cowboy Bebop.... which is why I liked it so much. Spike is a badass, and he doesn't care who knows it. Also, he doesn't care if he can beat the badguy or not - he's gonna bust in there packing all big and bad either way. That's why I liked his character. Win or lose, he's all in.
If you look at Final Fantasy, you'll see that every game is exactly the same, but people still love each and every one that comes out. Why? Becuase of the art - it's the only thing different.
Honestly i prefer quests that tell me to kill "x" monsters. Finished the quest, you earned the reward and experience. In addition you get the monster's loots and experience from killing it. Its a double win situation.
I dont think you would be enjoying the story quest once you start leveling your 2nd toon.
Im asian and i actually dont like grinding but i will do so if its worth it. If grinding will let me be the strongest in pvp/pk the i will grind till i become so...... so its pretty much about working hard to get something. I dont think most asians "like" to grind... but they will put up with it and patiently so. Maybe the western culture isnt so much about working hard but rather lazy and taking the easy road out.
Errr I thought many asian mmo's were grindy simply because it's a good way to introduce this style of gaming to that market. Eventually, and it already is, the grind will easy off and disappear to be replaced with 'content'. And not necessarily story driven content I might add.. I don't want to get into that whole story questing grind vs mob and number grindage, because in the end if you like at both these styles they are BOTH grinds.
And in a game that gives the max level easily, it will usually demand a grind of another kind. Faction grind, gear grind, you name it. It's deciding which kind you can live with and like the best that is the factor. I don't believe in the popular thinking that asian games are worst grinds then western games, it's just different and masked in western games while in eastern games it's a lot more obvious because many of the free to play games are simpler. They are free. ^_~
Small example in WoW you've spent a year leveling 3 or 4 character to max level and getting gear and crafting and what not, in an eastern game you've spent the same amount of time on leveling one character. Which is one is better and more enjoyable? The first to me sounds like a game that caters to the ultra casual gamer, or the disposable gamer, and the latter seems to cater to the dedicated individual who likes to work on one class and really master it. It sounds like I'm championing the latter, I'm not. I don't like most eastern games, they are not for me in the package presented, however I won't be deluded enough to think my western games are better, because I often MMO hop and am in a constant unsatisfied state with those games.
Honestly I think there needs to be a nice compromise between both styles, a balance that I actually do believe will come, one day. ^_^ FFXI was already a nice try, but it's still missing a few things, I found that even though they made some awesome decisions for their expansions at higher levels they never added that much content for lower tiers, maybe that would have helped with newer players and players who left out of frustration.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
You know this kind of wet liberal thinking really cheeses me off. I bet you are the type of person who calls a 'manhole cover' a 'personhole cover'.
I opened the thread to find out why people like a particular kind of game. I thought if I could understand the reasoning behind it, then I would be able to extract some enjoyment from these games as well, seeing as most are free2play. It so happens that those games are Eastern, and therefore I wanted to know the cultural mind-set that meant that thiis type of game was so radically different to the games played in the West. Now if you think that is racist, then you have to look at yourself.
You see buddy, I bet the difference between us is this.
I speak to a man.
You speak to that same man, but notice he is black, and so modify your behaviour so as too appear that you are not aware of his race.
I don't care a jot about a person's ethnicity. However I am interested in different countries, as I like to travel.
Yes, but it's a very good invention.
Arguing with me will not make you right.