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sl is not an mmorpg
AmosTrask
Member Posts: 30
in Second Life
sl is not an mmorpg so why is it on mmorpg.com?
Comments
It is massively multiplayer. It is online. You cant also roleplay your characater. How is it not a mmorpg?
It's a true sandbox, and bigger than a lot of games listed.
Just because because there isn't required head-bashing-in doesn't mean it's not an MMO.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
The creators of SL (Linden Labs) always try to deny that SL is a "game" because they are selling it as an actual "life" which can replace your "first" life. Often times if you call it a "game" while you are actually "playing" it then you will be yelled at by fanboys. And due to the fact that yelling in SL is often accompanied by virtual penis assaults I recommend not provoking the fanboys without good reason.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
i think your whole post is completely wrong,
Linden Labs are selling Second life as a virtual platform, a business tool. definitively NOT a life.
It can become a game, since there are sim (or worlds) that are made to simulate a game, say with fighting, Fantasy Roleplaying (non sexual) or just regular arcade or puzzle games that people have actually scripted.
virtual penis assaults are usually found in unmoderated sims (or virtual worlds) such as sandboxes ( a place where every one can build whatever without needing to own land) but if you go to well respected worlds, such as RP zones, Linden Labs events or actual corporations owned worlds like "The WB" or "Spectre Island" you will not have such penis assaults... those who do it in those places are banned and reported to linden labs and banned within minutes, this because corporations are paying hundreds of $ and the service is there.
and what you call SL fanboys are usually grieffers who take pleasure in ruining other's fun and are existent in ALL MMORPGs out there.
though i agree with the op that it should not be on this list since its not really a Game per to say but more of a tool platform more than anything else. (but it is nonetheless an MMORPG)
thanks for your replys
I was wrong to make this thread and did it out of anger for another game sorry.
Having only played this game briefly i think second life intended to be a roleplaying experience but ended up as somthing else.
No, SL is what you want it to be. Game or no game. People debate whether or not it is a game and the best I can come up with is SL is a virtual platform with GAMING elements. Remember, it is a 100% user created world. So you can find combat if you want it. However, because combat is NOT the focus. There is a VIBRANT user created RP culture there. Want fantasy RP? Check. Want sci-fi RP? Check. Want steampunk? Check. Anything you want, it is there. So you might not be able to go raiding in SL - but you can certainly RP!!!!!
i think your whole post is completely wrong,
Linden Labs are selling Second life as a virtual platform, a business tool. definitively NOT a life.
I'm not wrong. The name of the game is proof of what I said. They named it Second Life because that was what they meant for it to be, a second life for you to live in addition to (or in replacement of) your original life. Yes, Linden also markets the game on a larger scale to businesses so that they will purchase large amounts of land in the game to advertise their products. But its also a well known fact that they sell the game on a smaller scale to individuals as a way to live out an "ideal" life in a world of their own creation. Many people buy completely into this, constructing entire homes, wardrobes and vehicles for themselves in Second Life so that they can actually LIVE in that world. Its entirely possible to buy a virtual movie in a virtual mall, take it home to your virtual house and sit your virtual ass down on a virtual couch to watch your virtual movie on a virtual big screen TV. As bizzare and sad as that sounds people actually do this!
And yes, I'm well aware that the "virtual penis assault" was a tactic used by the Something Awful goons when they trolled the game. But the fanboys of this game will gladly resort to such tactics as well to defend the game and the penis assault was just one example of the perversion and obnoxious behavior you may encounter in this "game" if you actually call it that.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
i think your whole post is completely wrong,
Linden Labs are selling Second life as a virtual platform, a business tool. definitively NOT a life.
I'm not wrong. The name of the game is proof of what I said. They named it Second Life because that was what they meant for it to be, a second life for you to live in addition to (or in replacement of) your original life. Yes, Linden also markets the game on a larger scale to businesses so that they will purchase large amounts of land in the game to advertise their products. But its also a well known fact that they sell the game on a smaller scale to individuals as a way to live out an "ideal" life in a world of their own creation. Many people buy completely into this, constructing entire homes, wardrobes and vehicles for themselves in Second Life so that they can actually LIVE in that world. Its entirely possible to buy a virtual movie in a virtual mall, take it home to your virtual house and sit your virtual ass down on a virtual couch to watch your virtual movie on a virtual big screen TV. As bizzare and sad as that sounds people actually do this!
And yes, I'm well aware that the "virtual penis assault" was a tactic used by the Something Awful goons when they trolled the game. But the fanboys of this game will gladly resort to such tactics as well to defend the game and the penis assault was just one example of the perversion and obnoxious behavior you may encounter in this "game" if you actually call it that.
no, never did they mean for Second life to be as the name says a second life, they simply made it open to ANYONE to do whatever they wanted to do with it. just like the internet. its just regular people "users" who decided to make it into a virtual life.
second life is what you make it to be. linde labs just gave us a world in which possibilities are limitless.
and you would be surprized that fanboys as you call them would use many other tactics before resorting to a penis attack, for someone messing with a fanboy would get banned from SL before they get the penis attack. most of the times penis attack are made from people who bash or hate second life and want to ruin the experience for others, OR 13 year old kids who giggle at the word penis that have nothing better to do and think its funny to fling genital parts all over the place, for them its just a form of fun.
So, you think they just picked the name Second Life at random and it doesn't mean anything? I'm really not just making this up. They really choose that name for a reason. Look it up, do a google search, check wikipedia or something. I'm sure if you do the research you will see I'm right.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life
"a user-defined world in which people can interact, play, do business, and otherwise communicate"
this just makes allusion of a virtual chat room with interactive properties, no more different than your regular chat-room other than you have an avatar to represent you instead of just a name.
in fact wikipedia does call it a game
"Second Life (abbreviated as SL) is an Internet-based virtual world video game launched on June 23, 2003, developed by Linden Research, Inc (commonly referred to as Linden Lab)"
I guess I should have known better than to invoke wikipedia on anything.
Okay, let me reiterate my arguement here.
First of all, the reason its named Second Life is because that is what it is designed to be. A second life for you to live, either in addition to your first life or (far more commonly) at the expense of your first life. This not only why Linden Labs gave the game the name that it has but is also why they refer to "players" of the game as Residents. What is a Resident? A person who LIVES in something. In this case, a resident is a person who lives in second life. Linden wants people to build actual lives for their avatars in Second Life.
Despite what you may think, I am not just making this up or pulling it out of thin air. I'm still shocked that someone is trying to debate this with me because I considered this common knowledge.
WARNING: The links that follow in this post contain extremely offensive images (usually screenshots from Second Life). Raltar doesn't recommend clicking on them. They are provided exclusively for educational purposes. Raltar is not responsible for emotional trauma resulting from viewing any of these links.
Now that the Linden Lab's style disclaimer is out of the way, lets get down to business.
Item #1: www.getafirstlife.com - The joke behind this website is obvious. Hes suggesting that living a second life is going to come at the expense of your first. This is exactly what I've been trying to tell you. Its called Second Life because Linden wants it to replace your first one!
Item #2: www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Second_Life - Encylopedia Dramatica, the Wiki that tells you what wikipedia won't.
"Second Life is a game for people whose first ones suck."
"Regular inhabitants of Second Life will treat it with the same degree of importance they place upon their real life, possibly a result of not having one in the first place"
"Second Life users are encouraged to pay for in-game money, which they can then use to buy in-game goods. Second Life likes to promote this economy in the old media as being rich with items such as houses, nightclubs, designer clothes, and popular music. Actually, the primary industry in Second Life is [penis]."
Item 3#: www.somethingawful.com/d/second-life-safari/ - Then in the same vein as the above link, we have Something Awful. I personally hate this website and its common userbase, but I can't deny that they have the right idea about Second Life. Take note: its the current policy of Linden Labs to ban anyone from Second Life if they even so much as admit to having READ Something Awful ONCE. So if you read the following quotes you will become an internet terrorist:
"According to Linden Labs, the creators and administrators of Second Life, Second Life is 'a 3-D virtual world entirely built and owned by its residents...[where] you'll discover a vast digital continent, teeming with people, entertainment, experiences and opportunity. Once you've explored a bit, perhaps you'll find a perfect parcel of land to build your house or business.'
Now strictly speaking, this isn't a lie. However, it ignores the fact that Second Life also consists of furry strip clubs and people having hot virtual sex. When I explain Second Life to people, I tell them this:
Have you got your head wrapped around that? Okay. Now make the person in question the psychotic neighborhood kid who slashes holes in the back of the schoolbus with his Swiss Army knife, and you will begin to realize the Lovecraftian horror of Second Life."
"When I wrote this article, Second Lifers had spent $494,196 in the last 24 hours.
Let me say that again.
Four Hundred And Ninety Four Thousand, One Hundred And Ninety Six Dollars. In 24 hours. On virtual goods that have no tangible worth outside of Linden Labs."
"At this point, you are probably thinking to yourself that the very premise of Second Life is so unbelievable, so incredible, so downright ridiculous, I must have erred in my reporting. Surely, you say to yourself: surely, there is no way that so many people could be so sad, so strange, so pathetic that they would spend their hard-earned money to enhance their 'second life' at the presumable expense of their first.
But such people do exist, and they live on Second Life. Indeed, what I'm attempting to prove is that the Second Life "metaverse" (they get dreadfully offended if you call it a game, incidentally, because apparently the convergence of furries and money legitimizes the former by virtue of the latter) is quite frightening. Not because people are making money off of it, but because there are people who are willing to fiscally forsake the occasionally harsh and unforgiving world we live in for these digital fantasies."
Item #4: www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/commentary/sexdrive/2006/08/71657 - And finally, last but not least, my personal favorite is this article in Wired magazine.
"If you've had avatar sex in Second Life, you probably have Stroker Serpentine of Strokerz Toys to thank. Stroker, famous for creating avatar genitals and sex animations and other complex in-world sex tech, accepted the microphone in his turn and began simply, 'My name is Stroker Serpentine, and I am a pervert.' The audience roared its approval."
And THAT right there should tell you everything you need to know about Second Life. When a guy can become famous for inventing the virtual penis, get on stage, announce himself to be a pervert and receive applause for it, something has gone dreadfully wrong in the universe... or in the "metaverse" in this case.
And this is the ultimate point I'm trying to get at: Second Life is called Second LIFE for a reason. People who play it are called residents for a reason. Linden Labs designed this second life so that you could abandon your inadequate first life to live in their fantasy world.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
your points from 1 to 4 can be summed up to any game that people will spend 8 hours a day on it 7 days a week on it, i can also find parodies about people who have 8 accounts of a certain game paying (15x8= 120$/month) or that people take MMORPGs to seriously that they consider it as work,
after work tonight ill find some equally funny parody articles form the internet, and ill even try and get you some scientific articles written by PhD grads about many other games out there.
and about your "my name is stroker serpentine, and i am a pervert" comment. following that logic you should not surf the internet EVER since there are far worse things on your firefox or internet explorer window than sex stores or adult entertainment
besides, apart from what you think i pay my apartment with what i make in second life. and i remain on the PG rated domain. i dont know about you but i get 400-500$/month income straight into my pockets from second life, and i spend about 10 hours a month working on that. (wich is far less time than what people play say WoW or EvE or Age of conan.
so when i get home ill find some equally entertaining articles about other MMORPGs out there
Well... its been two days... I guess you have a really long commute to get home from work every day. Strange for a guy who claims to pay his rent with income from Second Life.
More importantly though I think you have totally lost track of what we are even fighting about here. Remember when I said that they named Second Life because they wanted it to be a second life for people? You claimed they didn't and I still claim they did. Now suddenly you want to talk about how much you make in the game? I don't care how much you make. That wasn't the point. It never was.
My point was, is and remains this: Linden Labs named their "game" Second Life because they wanted it to be a second life for the "residents" of their "metauniverse" that they have created. That is and always was their objective. You can dance around the bush and make big talk about how only "some people do that" or brag about how much money you make in the game, but that doesn't alter the facts. I've yet to see you put forth an arguement that would convince me (or anyone else) that what I said about this game was anything but the absolute truth.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
I've never seen Linden Labs promoting SL as a Second Life. I think they chose the name because it's clever and no one had taken it yet to be honest.
I have, however, seen them promoting it as a virtual world in which you can do what you like.
It's larger than quite a few MMO's even with 18% of the users behaving like bots by database scans by the lindens. though most of the community puts it higher at 30(my guess)-50(the most avid)% of the user base that's online at anyone time. all those bots to game search results, and each bot running a trimmed down client that only connects to the servers and teleports to a location.
After that the game is still a very good sandbox. right now I'm working on a sword for the RP SIM I play in, it'll allow users to craft the stats how they want using the smithing area(things from the basic duelling sword, to stats that are a bit more exotic and specialized in a stat or two). This would be a good step for just about any MMO of course, the most interesting part about second life that wins a nice piece of cake is that the user is making the system and 'crafting' the whole thing how they and the players that are using it exactly how they want it to be.
It's such a huge asd;lfkjasding shame that people take such a great system and turn it into sex and strobe lights... Kinda does get under your skin if you can't use a search button.
Google's Lively does have that PG-13 rating so after the creation API's are released it might be worth going over there depending on how good they are, I'm expecting a system that can freely interface with interenet languages(RUBY(just because it's not affilited with any one company), PHP, serverlets, ASP) and then some basic inworld stuff. could be very interesting converting what would be a only-decent web based game into something that has some very decent lowish 3D graphics.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Second life is NOT an RPG.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Second life is NOT an RPG.
and new MMO's are a RPG how?
Not only that there is a massive subset of second life that have micro-RPG communities that are AGES ahead of most mmoRPGs(anywhere from a handfull to a few hundred active players) to the left, hell a month from now the combat systems they use could end up with as many new classes/subclasses the community could want or need, individual characters with abilities no one else has, GMs doing other stuff like completely reformat areas to just about anything that's needed.
edit: cause now you're going to want to go for the MMO part. they're all in the same game just with different GMs and rules.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Clearly you've only played Second Life Teen or something, because I can assure you there most definitely is
Your missing the G... its not a game... if your gonna start taking letters off, might as well take the M off the front and put every RPG that has a multiplayer feature on it on here.
Check out my site - www.pyroamos.com
How is it not a game? If I have to turn on my PC, sit in front of it, press buttons and click in order for my character to do something, I consider it a game...
How is it not a game? If I have to turn on my PC, sit in front of it, press buttons and click in order for my character to do something, I consider it a game...
By that logic, I guess that MSpaint is also a game?
Just because you have a program on a computer where you control a graphical object you call a "character" doesn't make something a game. I personally feel that Second Life is more of a chat room with graphics... graphics you have to pay extra for...
For those people who have tried to convert areas of Second Life into a game I congratulate them on their efforts. I've visited a few of these simulations and they have obviously done a great job on a few of them. But this is not what the majority of people are using Second Life for. The majority are using it for cyber sex... just like they would have used a chat room for the same thing 10 years ago. So in that sense Second Life is just the current evolution of the chat room.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
OK so let me get this straight...simply because people use the game to chat, it's suddenly not a game? One can interact with the environment, which is a hell of a lot more than a text-based chat room. What's more is that you say yourself that people have tried to convert various areas into simulations. The fact that more people are using SL to chat than play simulations has nothing to do with it. That's like saying that by logging into WoW and standing in Stormwind chatting to people I'm not playing it...
Oh, and no, by my logic MS Paint isn't considered a game, because I don't control any objects in it...I manipulate a picture. How that can be compared to controlling a 3D character is beyond me.
Yes you can "interact" with the "enviroment" which is why I called it a chat room WITH GRAPHICS. I didn't say it was JUST a chat room. Its clearly more than that. But it doesn't by default become a game just because you can sit in a chair.
Actually yes, its a lot like saying that. Thats a really great analogy you just came up with there. Thank you for pointing that out. If you sit in a game and just use it as a chat room then you really aren't playing it, are you? This is much like Second Life. You can log into it, and you can chat, but you never really play it. So its not really a game if you can't play it.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Yes you can "interact" with the "enviroment" which is why I called it a chat room WITH GRAPHICS. I didn't say it was JUST a chat room. Its clearly more than that. But it doesn't by default become a game just because you can sit in a chair.
Actually yes, its a lot like saying that. Thats a really great analogy you just came up with there. Thank you for pointing that out. If you sit in a game and just use it as a chat room then you really aren't playing it, are you? This is much like Second Life. You can log into it, and you can chat, but you never really play it. So its not really a game if you can't play it.
It baffles me as to what is so hard to understand. We'll all agree that World of Warcraft is a game, right? Now chatting is one of the features of gameplay. If I'm running somewhere and stop quickly to answer a message am I suddenly not playing the game anymore?
I'd be very interested to find out exactly what you consider to be a game. Is it questing? Killing mobs? What exactly is it? It sounds to me as if you've got the typical generic MMO in mind and don't quite grasp the concept of a sandbox MMO.
The ability to communicate with other players in the game is one of the features of the game. Its not the focus of the game.
Let me put it to you this way: If I install a washing machine in your car does it cease to be a car? No, it doesn't. Because the primary function of the car is still to travel between point A and point B.
By the same token: If you have a washing machine in your car does that make it a laundromat? No, because it would still lack many of the requirements to qualify as a laundromat (such as a dryer and the ability to serve many customers at once).
WoW is a game because its primary function is that of a game, you play it. It may have some similar features to that of a chat room but that doesn't make it a chat room.
Second Life is a chat room because its primary function is that of a chat room, chatting. Yes, it may have the ability to be modified by the users to mimic some of the features of a game, but that doesn't nullify its original function. And it doesn't change the fact that reguardless of what you call it, the majority of the people using the service aren't treating it as a game, they treat it as a chat room (by doing the things that people would do in a chat room such as yelling at each other, acting crazy and having cyber sex).
Second Life may fit the description of a "Sandbox" and it may fit the description of an "MMO" but that doesn't make it a game.
My idea of a "Sandbox MMOG" would be a game like Darkfall where the emphasis is not on leveling or questing but on PvP combat, building player owned cities and developemt of the storyline of the game (which the players would have the control of). Of course I realise that Darkfall is just vaporware but many other games have tried a similar strategy. Shadowbane had the exact same concept, the developers were just incompetent liars and the game never worked right. One of the early descriptions of Horizions described it as having a similar style with alot of hardcore roleplaying rules, player owned cities and perma-death. I'm not sure what the hell happened to that game because it has none of those things anymore as far as I'm aware. EvE Online has some of the features of a Sandbox as players can and do start their own factions in the game to take control of various parts of space by building space staions and mining resources.
We have yet to see a really good Sandbox GAME made. Most attempts have been failures which is why so many developers refuse to try to develop such games anymore. Until someone invents the holodeck from Star Trek I don't think we will have the technology to make a true sandbox game a reality.
Second Life may behave like a (very buggy and easily abused) Sandbox, but its still a LONG way away from being a game.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields