Risk? What's at risk? Some gold for repairs? Please.
There is no "risk" in World of Warcraft. There is only Time Spent. Because Time is what limits everything I do. If I had infinite time, I could do everything in the game. I don't have infinite time, so I have to pick and choose where I spend mine.
The badge system introduced in 2.3 is great. It gets people running heroics and doing something else other than standing around inside Shatt between raids. It's a way to augment getting gear. More gear, less time, and Heroics give me something to do. Win, win, win.
The thing I hate the most is people who can't do their job in WoW. 240 DPS from a warlock in a heroic - they do not belong there. They wasted my time for joining the group, they wasted my time for getting us killed because I couldn't heal for 25 mins while we tried to kill one boss... They wasted my time. I don't care about getting killed, really. Do some dailies (again just TIME spent) and repair bills are irrelevant.
The only "risk" is wasting time. The only thing that ever causes me to waste time is people who can't play their characters. Sadly, this game is filled with them. So go ahead and try to balance that out... Getting a group together for a really easy 5 man quest with a crappy reward can be the most frustrating thing in the world because the 4 people you got have no @#$^ing clue what they're doing. Time Spent = HIGH, Reward = Low. Or maybe there's a really hard quest that has a really great reward... You grab 4 FRIENDS and breeze through it. Time Spent = Low, Reward = High. It's all about the other people in your group.
This post was like a beacon to the WoW haters.. like flies on sh*t. WoW has always been about the risk, and dieing is part of the game, I must of died 10 or more times trying to solo that elite giant in burning steps, but after a few deaths I figured it out and I downed him.. that was my reward.. although his loot was hardly worth it =D Kinda funny reading their replies.. sadly most wont be happy untill a game comes along that has perma-death and also when you die you have to; 1. uninstall windows
2. partition your hard drive into 4 parts
3. installing windows...
4. call microsoft and beg as you have re-activited windows to many times.
5. Buy a new copy of windows
6. download the game at 1kb/s
7. re-register your account and wait upto a week for it to be approved
8. email the company a month later as you have not recieved your activation key
9. get the key via hacking the companies database
10. spend 5 years in prison
11. get bugged by several prisoners and warders for 5 years
12. download a huge patch at 1kb/s
13. get into the game at start at lvl 1 again with only 1 hit point in a zone where even the grass hits you got 500 hit points. .... now that is risk.
every time i read a bitter post like this, i can only think 'the tears of your weakness bring me joy'.
risk vs. reward is a very common concept in gaming. period. when it's pointed out that some games do not have a risk vs. reward system, you somehow get replies like the quoted. which, as i said, those tears bring me joy. people that can't wrap their consciousness around such a simple concept -- they deserve wow. and i hope they continue to play wow and wow alone.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
So you only kill one boss and your group disbands, eh well you still got an honor token. Keep on chugging along and you'll get yours eventually because failure is not punished in WoW. You're always accumulating something, whether it be rep, or honor tokens, or whatever.. you play you win. This is the perfect model for people who have plenty of time on their hand and lack the skill to play in a system that punishes you for failure.
A casual gamer with skill would be better off playing in a true 'Risk vs Reward' system because they would get the most out of their time. Sad that nobody can see that.
Risk just means the amount of real life time you waste for a reward. Crafting like he said, takes an enormous amount of time to solo craft a spellstrike hood. where as you can just run kara or some heroics and get equal gear at a badge vendor. geez people use your f'ing brain.
Time is a risk? Wait because you're a Chinese gold farmer, and time is money in gaming? Its like saying that going to see a movie is a risk because you chance not being entertained. If you didn't have time in excess, then you wouldn't be paying for entertainment that by design is going to take up a huge amount of your time. But again, time is a risk here? What is the payoff for not losing time in a big timesink? More gear more quickly, so you can then *risk* time getting new gear to replace that gear, and then risk again. Hahaha
I see a bunch of talk about rewards, but is there truthfully any probability for loss or negative impact? You can't fail a craft in WoW, and aside from a lockout in some places, you can't fail a quest or instance in a way that negates any progress. You might say repairs, but you still have the same level, gear, rep, and no potential to lose any of that. Grouping gets you better rewards, but I can't find risk in any of it.. other than playing the time game with the loot tables while waiting for your item to drop week after week. Risk? lol
Time vs. Gratification.. this is more like it.
The only risk to playing WoW is the real life opportunities you're missing everyday you spend time playing the game. So yeah, I guess there is a lot of risk associated with playing WoW.. such as ending up one of the biggest losers on the face of the planet.
If your time was such a precious thing, then you wouldn't be wasting it in a game where all you get in the end is entertainment and lost time.
Well nothing like a discussion with a bang. I understand the "WoW haters", there is nothing really wrong with that. Something that I think is very clear to everyone, even if its hard to utter the words; everybody who played and put their heart into Everquest (8 years here), will never experience another MMO in the same way.
Everquest is a dead breed, a breed of game that catered for a very small percentage of - at the time - a hugely untapped genre of the gaming industry. Blizzard tapped it, and tapped it hard. Other game companies and publishers see how successful the genre can be, MMO's start popping up all over the place, trying to cater to as many players as possible. Sony started it, Blizzard improved on it and now the shape of MMO's has changed forever. If anything the response for this article proves this. This is a discussion that has been beaten to death.
An interesting "Welcome back" to writing for mmorpg.com. This would be my 5th or 6th article, I had to stop due to moving back to my home country. I'm looking forward to many more discussions like this, its great reading, even if its not all positive and constructive, its still very strong opinions that keep the genre strong
Well nothing like a discussion with a bang. I understand the "WoW haters", there is nothing really wrong with that. Something that I think is very clear to everyone, even if its hard to utter the words; everybody who played and put their heart into Everquest (8 years here), will never experience another MMO in the same way. Everquest is a dead breed, a breed of game that catered for a very small percentage of - at the time - a hugely untapped genre of the gaming industry. Blizzard tapped it, and tapped it hard. Other game companies and publishers see how successful the genre can be, MMO's start popping up all over the place, trying to cater to as many players as possible. Sony started it, Blizzard improved on it and now the shape of MMO's has changed forever. If anything the response for this article proves this. This is a discussion that has been beaten to death. An interesting "Welcome back" to writing for mmorpg.com. This would be my 5th or 6th article, I had to stop due to moving back to my home country. I'm looking forward to many more discussions like this, its great reading, even if its not all positive and constructive, its still very strong opinions that keep the genre strong
I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success. When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead. This is just not true.
In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved. Also it has the smoothest gameplay of any game out there.
So, accessibility is the most important reason.
Quality is the 2nd most important.
EZ mode for n00bs is probably a distant 3rd.
And by no means is a difficult MMO that relys on group play and has harsher penalties something that can't be done well again and be a huge success. They just need to fit the first 2 requirements. There is a huge market out there. And all anyone wants is a quality game they can actually play on their computer without replacing it.
I submit this question to you, what other games, that have been released since WoW meet these requirements? LOTRO is about it. It's not like there has been any serious competition for WoW yet, and I believe, if someone did release a game that was as difficult as EQ1 with similar risk vs reward... if it had the same quality and accessibility as WoW (along with blizzards marketing campaign) it would be as successful or more successful than WoW is, especially if blizzard did it themselves!
"In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved."
Anyone can run EverQuest with the same specs and I don't see a ton of people when I log into EQ these days...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
"In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved."
Anyone can run EverQuest with the same specs and I don't see a ton of people when I log into EQ these days...
You aren't applying the 2nd part of my sentence to your comparison. Not to mention how hard it would be for someone to just start playing EQ... EQ is dead (to newcomers), but not the basic foundation of ideas that made it good (at first)
Ghettobooste - "I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success. When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead. This is just not true."
In no way was my article commenting on why wow is successful, it was merely looking into the risk/time vs reward system.
There has been no game since Everquest with the same strict risk vs reward system and unique feel that Everquest gave us, that is why I say its a dead breed, I just don't feel - or at least for moment - that we will ever get the kind of intense feeling that Everquest gave us in the early days. MMO caters for an entirerly different audience, an audience that pays the bills. It makes me sad as I invested a huge part of my life into Everquest and I keep wishing I will get something to fill the void around each corner.
Ghettobooste - "I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success. When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead. This is just not true." In no way was my article commenting on why wow is successful, it was merely looking into the risk/time vs reward system. There has been no game since Everquest with the same strict risk vs reward system and unique feel that Everquest gave us, that is why I say its a dead breed, I just don't feel - or at least for moment - that we will ever get the kind of intense feeling that Everquest gave us in the early days. MMO caters for an entirerly different audience, an audience that pays the bills. It makes me sad as I invested a huge part of my life into Everquest and I keep wishing I will get something to fill the void around each corner.
With all that being said, even with the RIvsRE there is a fun factor that some of the players get. For example, myself even knowing that i go into an instance that will drop an item with a very low drop rate, i do it. Even if i know that the chance of the item dropping is low, i enjoy just doing the instance and making mistakes with them. Even if the time is waste knowingly i do it.
As i havnt play Everquest, i wouldnt know how the risk and reawrd is like but i have to say, comparing it to WoW is far different. How fun would it be to have created another MMO just like one in the pass. That isnt orginal, WoW puts a different feel into playing MMOs and it attacts a more aduience not just ones that have played Everquest. And even if you dont get that void feeled you shouldnt have you hopes up, you should look into geting a new persective of one games reward system.
Its always different with every game, you never know what to expect or when to for that matter. And sometimes you might not like the system at first but part of you needs to adapt into or move on with another game. Thats just how things are even if its the sad truth.
*Downs the last pint in a 6-pack of Anchor Porter*
Bah phuk allaya. WoW may have trivial flaws here and there and everywhere but OVERALL it's still far more enjoyable than any 3 other mmogs combined. Years after being in the open beta i still want to play the game and try new stuff.
so i played the game and well it was fun but what risk i mean come on there is no risk o no i have one more loss to pvp or o no i lost a item, it was fun meh ill look for better games where rewards come with real and rewarding risks
Not sure how long you played but the risk is time. There isnt much of a risk besides time, it takes tons of time to get an reward that you want. If your only halfway into WoW you wouldnt really understand as much of the endgame players would since all they do is look for rewards.
*Downs the last pint in a 6-pack of Anchor Porter* Bah phuk allaya. WoW may have trivial flaws here and there and everywhere but OVERALL it's still far more enjoyable than any 3 other mmogs combined. Years after being in the open beta i still want to play the game and try new stuff.
Comments
Risk? What's at risk? Some gold for repairs? Please.
There is no "risk" in World of Warcraft. There is only Time Spent. Because Time is what limits everything I do. If I had infinite time, I could do everything in the game. I don't have infinite time, so I have to pick and choose where I spend mine.
The badge system introduced in 2.3 is great. It gets people running heroics and doing something else other than standing around inside Shatt between raids. It's a way to augment getting gear. More gear, less time, and Heroics give me something to do. Win, win, win.
The thing I hate the most is people who can't do their job in WoW. 240 DPS from a warlock in a heroic - they do not belong there. They wasted my time for joining the group, they wasted my time for getting us killed because I couldn't heal for 25 mins while we tried to kill one boss... They wasted my time. I don't care about getting killed, really. Do some dailies (again just TIME spent) and repair bills are irrelevant.
The only "risk" is wasting time. The only thing that ever causes me to waste time is people who can't play their characters. Sadly, this game is filled with them.
So go ahead and try to balance that out... Getting a group together for a really easy 5 man quest with a crappy reward can be the most frustrating thing in the world because the 4 people you got have no @#$^ing clue what they're doing. Time Spent = HIGH, Reward = Low. Or maybe there's a really hard quest that has a really great reward... You grab 4 FRIENDS and breeze through it. Time Spent = Low, Reward = High. It's all about the other people in your group.
I hear you can lose a Dreadnaught or a Mothership......seriously the only risk is time wasted.
every time i read a bitter post like this, i can only think 'the tears of your weakness bring me joy'.
risk vs. reward is a very common concept in gaming. period. when it's pointed out that some games do not have a risk vs. reward system, you somehow get replies like the quoted. which, as i said, those tears bring me joy. people that can't wrap their consciousness around such a simple concept -- they deserve wow. and i hope they continue to play wow and wow alone.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Reward vs Reward.....
So you only kill one boss and your group disbands, eh well you still got an honor token. Keep on chugging along and you'll get yours eventually because failure is not punished in WoW. You're always accumulating something, whether it be rep, or honor tokens, or whatever.. you play you win. This is the perfect model for people who have plenty of time on their hand and lack the skill to play in a system that punishes you for failure.
A casual gamer with skill would be better off playing in a true 'Risk vs Reward' system because they would get the most out of their time. Sad that nobody can see that.
Risk just means the amount of real life time you waste for a reward. Crafting like he said, takes an enormous amount of time to solo craft a spellstrike hood. where as you can just run kara or some heroics and get equal gear at a badge vendor. geez people use your f'ing brain.
Time is a risk? Wait because you're a Chinese gold farmer, and time is money in gaming? Its like saying that going to see a movie is a risk because you chance not being entertained. If you didn't have time in excess, then you wouldn't be paying for entertainment that by design is going to take up a huge amount of your time. But again, time is a risk here? What is the payoff for not losing time in a big timesink? More gear more quickly, so you can then *risk* time getting new gear to replace that gear, and then risk again. Hahaha
I see a bunch of talk about rewards, but is there truthfully any probability for loss or negative impact? You can't fail a craft in WoW, and aside from a lockout in some places, you can't fail a quest or instance in a way that negates any progress. You might say repairs, but you still have the same level, gear, rep, and no potential to lose any of that. Grouping gets you better rewards, but I can't find risk in any of it.. other than playing the time game with the loot tables while waiting for your item to drop week after week. Risk? lol
Time vs. Gratification.. this is more like it.
The only risk to playing WoW is the real life opportunities you're missing everyday you spend time playing the game. So yeah, I guess there is a lot of risk associated with playing WoW.. such as ending up one of the biggest losers on the face of the planet.
If your time was such a precious thing, then you wouldn't be wasting it in a game where all you get in the end is entertainment and lost time.
peace.
the only thing u RISK on wow is your social life
your social life = 10 epic items or some like that . . . stop farming jeez
BestSigEver :P
theres no risk versus reward in wow
Well nothing like a discussion with a bang. I understand the "WoW haters", there is nothing really wrong with that. Something that I think is very clear to everyone, even if its hard to utter the words; everybody who played and put their heart into Everquest (8 years here), will never experience another MMO in the same way.
Everquest is a dead breed, a breed of game that catered for a very small percentage of - at the time - a hugely untapped genre of the gaming industry. Blizzard tapped it, and tapped it hard. Other game companies and publishers see how successful the genre can be, MMO's start popping up all over the place, trying to cater to as many players as possible. Sony started it, Blizzard improved on it and now the shape of MMO's has changed forever. If anything the response for this article proves this. This is a discussion that has been beaten to death.
An interesting "Welcome back" to writing for mmorpg.com. This would be my 5th or 6th article, I had to stop due to moving back to my home country. I'm looking forward to many more discussions like this, its great reading, even if its not all positive and constructive, its still very strong opinions that keep the genre strong
Darren Bridle
LoreNET Entertainment
I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success. When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead. This is just not true.
In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved. Also it has the smoothest gameplay of any game out there.
So, accessibility is the most important reason.
Quality is the 2nd most important.
EZ mode for n00bs is probably a distant 3rd.
And by no means is a difficult MMO that relys on group play and has harsher penalties something that can't be done well again and be a huge success. They just need to fit the first 2 requirements. There is a huge market out there. And all anyone wants is a quality game they can actually play on their computer without replacing it.
I submit this question to you, what other games, that have been released since WoW meet these requirements? LOTRO is about it. It's not like there has been any serious competition for WoW yet, and I believe, if someone did release a game that was as difficult as EQ1 with similar risk vs reward... if it had the same quality and accessibility as WoW (along with blizzards marketing campaign) it would be as successful or more successful than WoW is, especially if blizzard did it themselves!
"In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved."
Anyone can run EverQuest with the same specs and I don't see a ton of people when I log into EQ these days...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
You aren't applying the 2nd part of my sentence to your comparison. Not to mention how hard it would be for someone to just start playing EQ... EQ is dead (to newcomers), but not the basic foundation of ideas that made it good (at first)
Ghettobooste - "I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success. When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead. This is just not true."
In no way was my article commenting on why wow is successful, it was merely looking into the risk/time vs reward system.
There has been no game since Everquest with the same strict risk vs reward system and unique feel that Everquest gave us, that is why I say its a dead breed, I just don't feel - or at least for moment - that we will ever get the kind of intense feeling that Everquest gave us in the early days. MMO caters for an entirerly different audience, an audience that pays the bills. It makes me sad as I invested a huge part of my life into Everquest and I keep wishing I will get something to fill the void around each corner.
Darren Bridle
LoreNET Entertainment
With all that being said, even with the RIvsRE there is a fun factor that some of the players get. For example, myself even knowing that i go into an instance that will drop an item with a very low drop rate, i do it. Even if i know that the chance of the item dropping is low, i enjoy just doing the instance and making mistakes with them. Even if the time is waste knowingly i do it.
As i havnt play Everquest, i wouldnt know how the risk and reawrd is like but i have to say, comparing it to WoW is far different. How fun would it be to have created another MMO just like one in the pass. That isnt orginal, WoW puts a different feel into playing MMOs and it attacts a more aduience not just ones that have played Everquest. And even if you dont get that void feeled you shouldnt have you hopes up, you should look into geting a new persective of one games reward system.
Its always different with every game, you never know what to expect or when to for that matter. And sometimes you might not like the system at first but part of you needs to adapt into or move on with another game. Thats just how things are even if its the sad truth.
*Downs the last pint in a 6-pack of Anchor Porter*
Bah phuk allaya. WoW may have trivial flaws here and there and everywhere but OVERALL it's still far more enjoyable than any 3 other mmogs combined. Years after being in the open beta i still want to play the game and try new stuff.
so i played the game and well it was fun but what risk
i mean come on there is no risk o no i have one more loss to pvp or o no i lost a item,
it was fun meh ill look for better games where rewards come with real and rewarding risks
Not sure how long you played but the risk is time. There isnt much of a risk besides time, it takes tons of time to get an reward that you want. If your only halfway into WoW you wouldnt really understand as much of the endgame players would since all they do is look for rewards.
I am just sick of the game. I can sit here and say in how many ways I am sick of it.
But why........
What new stuff?
You're addicted...face it.