MJ is doing your typical Damage control. Its just that simple.. He is not doing anything out of the norm. Plain and simple MJ is in full damage control mode.
How can you do damage control on an unfinished product?
Now i think your just looking at Age of Conan and Funcom... now THAT is damage control at its worst
FFS! They don't even want to beinsinuated with EA (The mother of releasing unfinished games) they changed there name back to Mythic Entertainment
Come on? Really you dont think he is doing Damage control? How do you figure. I agree with what MJ says but it is still damage control.
Mythic just dropped a bomb shell on the community and some of the community is up in arms, MJ (Mythic's mouth piece) comes out with reason to justify the choice and then comes back with responses to the negitive people....
Its damage control 101.
Because the games not released yet and I can't talk about it cos of the NDA
so they are going to finish the game with your sub money. smed would be proud.
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
Wow victory still goes to Twank, anything I might have just said is smashed by his simple reasoning.
Its basically a win win situation. For people who want to play, buy the game in the fall. For people who wanted a push, wait and see if the content is patched in, the equivalent of a push.
Eh, wow told me 4 years ago I could have my meat wagons, so if worse comes to worse, I'll extend the same wait and see policy to WAR. Yes, I'm that big a lamb.
Eh, wow told me 4 years ago I could have my meat wagons, so if worse comes to worse, I'll extend the same wait and see policy to WAR. Yes, I'm that big a lamb.
Heh, your like the others of the player base who wishes to have something but cannot.
Except you did what we all should do. Aye contents been cut , if it makes you so unhappy that youll not play the game, then take a page out of pops book and just wait a couple of years. You save money, and if what you want is implemented you'll be all the happier when u start playing.
Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I'm keeping my CE preorder, I'll be patiently waiting from within the game and enjoying what they've offered thus far.
I really don't care if they have to push the release date back. I hope they take as long as they need and release a polished game with enough content to last more than 2 weeks. (hopefully enough content to last 6months at launch) If its not released till summer 2009, SO BE IT!
A game that goes by a monthly subscription needs to at least have enough content to last more than 1 month eh? You would think that is the most basic concept for a studio, but with games like Conan which give you about 10 days of decent content, it makes one wonder. I really hope WAR doesn't go down the same path. The announcement of cutting back classes and content doesn't sound to good to me. We shall see.
I really don't care if they have to push the release date back. I hope they take as long as they need and release a polished game with enough content to last more than 2 weeks. (hopefully enough content to last 6months at launch) If its not released till summer 2009, SO BE IT! A game that goes by a monthly subscription needs to at least have enough content to last more than 1 month eh? You would think that is the most basic concept for a studio, but with games like Conan which give you about 10 days of decent content, it makes one wonder. I really hope WAR doesn't go down the same path. The announcement of cutting back classes and content doesn't sound to good to me. We shall see.
Wow didnt even give 1 year of content at release, alot was added to give it the extensions of its life. mainly more raids , cant tell me you wanted MC for a year?
I guess people don't understand the concept of a Beta. This is where the difference between people comes in. Some people (those that are upset right now) are the ones that play a Beta stage just to see if they like the game. The other set of people (Those that are understanding right now) are the ones that play a beta to actually make the game a better product.
I guess they could be like Age of Conan who didn't even allow us to test the Sieges before going live.
Or they could be like numerous other MMO launches that have launched with content that wasn't as good as what it could of been.
People moan and complain saying that companies ship their games in Beta stages and instead Mythic is taking the necessary means to make sure their game ships in Great shape. And still people moan and complain?
I guess that is what trolls do after all.
Personally, I don't see how anyone can be upset at this particular stage of the game. Everyone assumes that the game is right around the corner and that it was ready for release but that just isn't true. Mythic (Mainly through MJ) has always made it clear that their release schedule was in "mud" meaning it could change at anytime.
What people seem to forget is that Warhammer is still a super short Development time. Even if it doesn't launch until 2009 it will have been about a 4 year development cycle. Which would then finally put it around the norm for the market. If it launches in 2008 it will be probably the second fastest development time for a major MMO. I know the fastest development time for an AAA MMO was Mythic's Dark Age of Camelot (which they developed and launched in 18 months).
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I really don't care if they have to push the release date back. I hope they take as long as they need and release a polished game with enough content to last more than 2 weeks. (hopefully enough content to last 6months at launch) If its not released till summer 2009, SO BE IT! A game that goes by a monthly subscription needs to at least have enough content to last more than 1 month eh? You would think that is the most basic concept for a studio, but with games like Conan which give you about 10 days of decent content, it makes one wonder. I really hope WAR doesn't go down the same path. The announcement of cutting back classes and content doesn't sound to good to me. We shall see.
Wow didnt even give 1 year of content at release, alot was added to give it the extensions of its life. mainly more raids , cant tell me you wanted MC for a year?
F--- WoW. That game was alright, but they are doing the same idiotic progression as EQ1 and EQ2 did. Making all their previous content obsolete with each new expansion instead of keeping, or changing it to make sure the old group and raid content stays an integral part of the game. All that time, server space and developement is wasted until they make some classic server someday. That being said WoW had enough content at launch to keep people subbing.
I am just hoping WAR has enough content to be worth a few months subscription before it's not worth the money anymore because all of the content has been exhausted.
My initial pain has dulled. I could easily analyze the FAQ, tear it apart in negative spin and it would serve nothing but give me five minutes of satisfaction.
Instead I am going to Man - Up, dedicate these months to make the case by offering fun options for the lost characters. ::sniff:: We will not forget! ::sniff sniff::
Hopefully this game will be all they say it to be. If not, I will have been takenin one of the greatest swindles of MMO marketing.
1) For those that are saying that they should cancel their pre-order, that they feel betrayed after ordering it, well, if that's how you feel, you should do exactly that.
Cool. My guildies and I are planning to do just that. Bye.
And to all the inevitable "z0mg stfu troll!1!!" posts from the defenders here: sorry I'm not tripping all over myself to commend Jacobs' "integrity" over letting us know that they'd been stringing us along for almost half a year about features that they planned to cut.
To be fair, you have no idea how complicated product development cycle such as MMO or even a single player game is. You cannot predict all the things that can happen. The fairly big content cut does raise some concerns, but to the credit of the devs, its great that they informed us now, and not just before the release. At least people will have time to cancel their pre-orders without major consequences.
I guess people don't understand the concept of a Beta. This is where the difference between people comes in. Some people (those that are upset right now) are the ones that play a Beta stage just to see if they like the game. The other set of people (Those that are understanding right now) are the ones that play a beta to actually make the game a better product.
I guess they could be like Age of Conan who didn't even allow us to test the Sieges before going live. Or they could be like numerous other MMO launches that have launched with content that wasn't as good as what it could of been. People moan and complain saying that companies ship their games in Beta stages and instead Mythic is taking the necessary means to make sure their game ships in Great shape. And still people moan and complain?
I guess that is what trolls do after all.
Personally, I don't see how anyone can be upset at this particular stage of the game. Everyone assumes that the game is right around the corner and that it was ready for release but that just isn't true. Mythic (Mainly through MJ) has always made it clear that their release schedule was in "mud" meaning it could change at anytime. What people seem to forget is that Warhammer is still a super short Development time. Even if it doesn't launch until 2009 it will have been about a 4 year development cycle. Which would then finally put it around the norm for the market. If it launches in 2008 it will be probably the second fastest development time for a major MMO. I know the fastest development time for an AAA MMO was Mythic's Dark Age of Camelot (which they developed and launched in 18 months).
I think its you who do not understand the concept of beta. As a software developer, when I release beta version of my soft to the QA department, I expect them to test all those features advertised in my product and report back bugs of those features and/or comments on them. This, however, does not mean that those features are to be removed. Beta is for proof-reading, not content removing.
If the final result of a beta test is a major content removal, then there is something seriously wrong with the program. Only if its seriously flawed, only then it is necessary to remove a big chunk of the program. Usually this happens if the bug is severe that may introduce critical errors in the whole system.
In WAR's case, Its hard to say exactly how major that cut was. I cannot really comment on the severity of the cut - even if I was in the beta, I wouldn't be able to admit it due to NDA. Anything we say about the cut is just our worries and speculation. I advice a cautious approach, certainly this is a good a topic to discuss, but I don't believe this is an indicator of WAR's failure. Once its released, we shall see how major this content cut is.
You know, this remebers me of another game who got released recently. It had about the threads just before release.
Stop whining about an unreleased game. If it don't sounds intresting, find something else to play. Not a single game releases ever exactly as the devs though it would when they started. If youre unsure, at least wait for the public beta or try it at a friends place after release.
Yeah, it is annoying when they cut features but relax a bit, no one knows the exact content at release anyways, not even mythic. Most games change their content during development.
so they are going to finish the game with your sub money. smed would be proud.
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
They saw what happened to AoC when you don't tell fans whats going on. So they either needed to tell everyone and lose some people for launch but have a longer retention rate on people that do play or pull an AoC and have lots of people leave after the first month. How this works out we will know in a few months. I don't know if a delay would have hurt the community near as much as classes and cities being cut.
Don't get me wrong they probably did take fans into consideration. However don't think for a second that they aren't about getting money. MBJ keeps saying it will release when its a great game but the second he turns around you know he is trying to launch in a timely manner to make more money. So is it great game for the gamers or great game for making money? At this point in time I can't tell.
so they are going to finish the game with your sub money. smed would be proud.
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
They saw what happened to AoC when you don't tell fans whats going on. So they either needed to tell everyone and lose some people for launch but have a longer retention rate on people that do play or pull an AoC and have lots of people leave after the first month. How this works out we will know in a few months. I don't know if a delay would have hurt the community near as much as classes and cities being cut.
Don't get me wrong they probably did take fans into consideration. However don't think for a second that they aren't about getting money. MBJ keeps saying it will release when its a great game but the second he turns around you know he is trying to launch in a timely manner to make more money. So is it great game for the gamers or great game for making money? At this point in time I can't tell.
It's no being cut. It's being phased in later.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
so they are going to finish the game with your sub money. smed would be proud.
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
They saw what happened to AoC when you don't tell fans whats going on. So they either needed to tell everyone and lose some people for launch but have a longer retention rate on people that do play or pull an AoC and have lots of people leave after the first month. How this works out we will know in a few months. I don't know if a delay would have hurt the community near as much as classes and cities being cut.
Don't get me wrong they probably did take fans into consideration. However don't think for a second that they aren't about getting money. MBJ keeps saying it will release when its a great game but the second he turns around you know he is trying to launch in a timely manner to make more money. So is it great game for the gamers or great game for making money? At this point in time I can't tell.
It's no being cut. It's being phased in later.
Lol some people can t read ugh IT S BEING PHASED IN. /sigh
Comments
so they are going to finish the game with your sub money. smed would be proud.
You should check MBJs background, maybe he learned under him (smed) ;p.
How can you do damage control on an unfinished product?
Now i think your just looking at Age of Conan and Funcom... now THAT is damage control at its worst
FFS! They don't even want to beinsinuated with EA (The mother of releasing unfinished games) they changed there name back to Mythic Entertainment
Come on? Really you dont think he is doing Damage control? How do you figure. I agree with what MJ says but it is still damage control.
Mythic just dropped a bomb shell on the community and some of the community is up in arms, MJ (Mythic's mouth piece) comes out with reason to justify the choice and then comes back with responses to the negitive people....
Its damage control 101.
Because the games not released yet and I can't talk about it cos of the NDA
Not with my money. I will pass and wait for Citadel of Sorcery and Darkfall.
Sooner or Later
hey guys! whats going on in here?
ROBOCOP!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
Wow victory still goes to Twank, anything I might have just said is smashed by his simple reasoning.
Its basically a win win situation. For people who want to play, buy the game in the fall. For people who wanted a push, wait and see if the content is patched in, the equivalent of a push.
Eh, wow told me 4 years ago I could have my meat wagons, so if worse comes to worse, I'll extend the same wait and see policy to WAR. Yes, I'm that big a lamb.
Heh, your like the others of the player base who wishes to have something but cannot.
Except you did what we all should do. Aye contents been cut , if it makes you so unhappy that youll not play the game, then take a page out of pops book and just wait a couple of years. You save money, and if what you want is implemented you'll be all the happier when u start playing.
Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I'm keeping my CE preorder, I'll be patiently waiting from within the game and enjoying what they've offered thus far.
I really don't care if they have to push the release date back. I hope they take as long as they need and release a polished game with enough content to last more than 2 weeks. (hopefully enough content to last 6months at launch) If its not released till summer 2009, SO BE IT!
A game that goes by a monthly subscription needs to at least have enough content to last more than 1 month eh? You would think that is the most basic concept for a studio, but with games like Conan which give you about 10 days of decent content, it makes one wonder. I really hope WAR doesn't go down the same path. The announcement of cutting back classes and content doesn't sound to good to me. We shall see.
Wow didnt even give 1 year of content at release, alot was added to give it the extensions of its life. mainly more raids , cant tell me you wanted MC for a year?
I guess people don't understand the concept of a Beta. This is where the difference between people comes in. Some people (those that are upset right now) are the ones that play a Beta stage just to see if they like the game. The other set of people (Those that are understanding right now) are the ones that play a beta to actually make the game a better product.
I guess they could be like Age of Conan who didn't even allow us to test the Sieges before going live.
Or they could be like numerous other MMO launches that have launched with content that wasn't as good as what it could of been.
People moan and complain saying that companies ship their games in Beta stages and instead Mythic is taking the necessary means to make sure their game ships in Great shape. And still people moan and complain?
I guess that is what trolls do after all.
Personally, I don't see how anyone can be upset at this particular stage of the game. Everyone assumes that the game is right around the corner and that it was ready for release but that just isn't true. Mythic (Mainly through MJ) has always made it clear that their release schedule was in "mud" meaning it could change at anytime.
What people seem to forget is that Warhammer is still a super short Development time. Even if it doesn't launch until 2009 it will have been about a 4 year development cycle. Which would then finally put it around the norm for the market. If it launches in 2008 it will be probably the second fastest development time for a major MMO. I know the fastest development time for an AAA MMO was Mythic's Dark Age of Camelot (which they developed and launched in 18 months).
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Wow didnt even give 1 year of content at release, alot was added to give it the extensions of its life. mainly more raids , cant tell me you wanted MC for a year?
F--- WoW. That game was alright, but they are doing the same idiotic progression as EQ1 and EQ2 did. Making all their previous content obsolete with each new expansion instead of keeping, or changing it to make sure the old group and raid content stays an integral part of the game. All that time, server space and developement is wasted until they make some classic server someday. That being said WoW had enough content at launch to keep people subbing.
I am just hoping WAR has enough content to be worth a few months subscription before it's not worth the money anymore because all of the content has been exhausted.
i was a bit bummed and affraid till i read his reply to all the negativity. im fine. and i cant wait to play WAR!!!
Oops, I missed this one. I better find my post on the newsletter forum and edit it to a link to this thread. My bad.
My initial pain has dulled. I could easily analyze the FAQ, tear it apart in negative spin and it would serve nothing but give me five minutes of satisfaction.
Instead I am going to Man - Up, dedicate these months to make the case by offering fun options for the lost characters. ::sniff:: We will not forget! ::sniff sniff::
Hopefully this game will be all they say it to be. If not, I will have been takenin one of the greatest swindles of MMO marketing.
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=153
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=155
Cool. My guildies and I are planning to do just that. Bye.
And to all the inevitable "z0mg stfu troll!1!!" posts from the defenders here: sorry I'm not tripping all over myself to commend Jacobs' "integrity" over letting us know that they'd been stringing us along for almost half a year about features that they planned to cut.
To be fair, you have no idea how complicated product development cycle such as MMO or even a single player game is. You cannot predict all the things that can happen. The fairly big content cut does raise some concerns, but to the credit of the devs, its great that they informed us now, and not just before the release. At least people will have time to cancel their pre-orders without major consequences.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I think its you who do not understand the concept of beta. As a software developer, when I release beta version of my soft to the QA department, I expect them to test all those features advertised in my product and report back bugs of those features and/or comments on them. This, however, does not mean that those features are to be removed. Beta is for proof-reading, not content removing.
If the final result of a beta test is a major content removal, then there is something seriously wrong with the program. Only if its seriously flawed, only then it is necessary to remove a big chunk of the program. Usually this happens if the bug is severe that may introduce critical errors in the whole system.
In WAR's case, Its hard to say exactly how major that cut was. I cannot really comment on the severity of the cut - even if I was in the beta, I wouldn't be able to admit it due to NDA. Anything we say about the cut is just our worries and speculation. I advice a cautious approach, certainly this is a good a topic to discuss, but I don't believe this is an indicator of WAR's failure. Once its released, we shall see how major this content cut is.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
You know, this remebers me of another game who got released recently. It had about the threads just before release.
Stop whining about an unreleased game. If it don't sounds intresting, find something else to play. Not a single game releases ever exactly as the devs though it would when they started. If youre unsure, at least wait for the public beta or try it at a friends place after release.
Yeah, it is annoying when they cut features but relax a bit, no one knows the exact content at release anyways, not even mythic. Most games change their content during development.
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
They saw what happened to AoC when you don't tell fans whats going on. So they either needed to tell everyone and lose some people for launch but have a longer retention rate on people that do play or pull an AoC and have lots of people leave after the first month. How this works out we will know in a few months. I don't know if a delay would have hurt the community near as much as classes and cities being cut.
Don't get me wrong they probably did take fans into consideration. However don't think for a second that they aren't about getting money. MBJ keeps saying it will release when its a great game but the second he turns around you know he is trying to launch in a timely manner to make more money. So is it great game for the gamers or great game for making money? At this point in time I can't tell.
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
They saw what happened to AoC when you don't tell fans whats going on. So they either needed to tell everyone and lose some people for launch but have a longer retention rate on people that do play or pull an AoC and have lots of people leave after the first month. How this works out we will know in a few months. I don't know if a delay would have hurt the community near as much as classes and cities being cut.
Don't get me wrong they probably did take fans into consideration. However don't think for a second that they aren't about getting money. MBJ keeps saying it will release when its a great game but the second he turns around you know he is trying to launch in a timely manner to make more money. So is it great game for the gamers or great game for making money? At this point in time I can't tell.
It's no being cut. It's being phased in later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I don't think development money has anything to do with it.
If it was all about the dev money they would have kept it a secret.
This way you can keep your money until all the content comes online. No one is forcing or cheating you into buying an unfinished product.
Imo the 2 prime reasons why they decided to stick to their release date are:
a) WoTLK. They need to form a solid player base before that plague hits
b) Consideration towards their fans. Not out of some bleeding-heart "goodness" but because the hype is nearing the boiling point and any additional delay might result in a catastrophic backlash.
..oh and please don't do that thing with Smed anymore. I'll have to go to sleep soon... and I really, really hope I won't dream.
They saw what happened to AoC when you don't tell fans whats going on. So they either needed to tell everyone and lose some people for launch but have a longer retention rate on people that do play or pull an AoC and have lots of people leave after the first month. How this works out we will know in a few months. I don't know if a delay would have hurt the community near as much as classes and cities being cut.
Don't get me wrong they probably did take fans into consideration. However don't think for a second that they aren't about getting money. MBJ keeps saying it will release when its a great game but the second he turns around you know he is trying to launch in a timely manner to make more money. So is it great game for the gamers or great game for making money? At this point in time I can't tell.
It's no being cut. It's being phased in later.
Lol some people can t read ugh IT S BEING PHASED IN. /sigh