Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The Cuts Deviate Too Much From The Original Concept; Not The Same Game Anymore
DarkDavis
Member UncommonPosts: 19
It's just not going to work out well for us, any way you slice it, unless the game is delayed until it is FINISHED.
They're cutting two tanks, and two melee DPS. Now maybe those classes are only being delayed until after launch or maybe they're not going to be put into the game at all...Mr. Jacobs said they haven't decided yet.
Here's the problem:
If you cut out the tanks for any race, you now have a race that has no tank. This means they're no longer self-reliant. They now have to depend on a tank from another race if they need a meat shield for any specific content.
Normally that wouldn't be that big of a problem EXCEPT that A) It doesn't really fit with the lore of the Warhammer world (Games Workshop has to be upset about this) and 
They've ALSO cut the cities down to only TWO cities!!!
Now what's going to happen? You have races that can't be self-reliant, which is going to interfere with the lore of the game world and strip away racial identity because players are going to pretty much be forced to mingle with other races. You also have all the races smashed together in the Human and Chaos cities. This will strip away whatever small bit of racial identity was left for the Orcs/Dwarves, High Elf/Dark Elf segments.
Remember all the race-specific Tier zones? Whatever happened to all that? Each race with it's own area to level up and battle their own sworn enemies. Guess we can kiss it goodbye, because it's going to be hard to have race specific areas if everyone is starting out in the same city.
What the eff, Mythic? The thing I was most looking forward to MMO-wise was seeing an accurate depicition of the Warhammer world, a world with a lot of racial tension and infighting. Now you're spinning your heels on us this late in the game?
I could deal with the frail alliances between the different races for the sake of game mechanics, it wasn't a big deal. But this latest move of cutting a fourth of the classes and mashing all the races into one city each...it's really a bad, bad idea.
I see no way this can work the way you've laid it out and still end up a Warhammer game. You said you wanted to do it right. You said you wanted to be faithful to the material. You seem to be ACTING like you want to be the next Blizzard and not release games until they're done. So DO IT and stop caving to stockholders.
When it comes to haughty development principles, it's put up or shut up. Actions not words. Make the game the way you intended to, the way you told me you would, or I'm not buyin'. Tell that to your benefactors.
Comments
Okay, so let me begin with your first sentence. It's just not going to work out well for YOU. not Us. YOU. From then on, what you state should be rethought from the angle of YOU, not US. Thank you for sharing with us how the game will not work for YOU. If that is truly the case, as has been said before by even Mark himself, don't buy the game if it is not right for you. For those it works for, they can play the game and be happy.
Also as has been said, if you want the game to be delayed and it is not, simply do not buy it. Wait 6 months, or a year, however long you think it should be delayed, and buy the game then (If the game is something you are interested in) and it can be the same as if they had delayed it... for you.
To save people the time of posting tangent rants about how we should not pay to Beta a game, that too is the choice of those who wish to pay for the game now, as opposed to later. If YOU do not wish to pay for the game in its current state, don't. For those that find it worth paying for now, permit them to without imposing your personal agendas on how they wish to spend THEIR leisure time and funds. Thanks.
Wait for a few months then. All that content's been delayed till after launch and not removed permanently.
The missing classes will probably get in first, followed by capital pairs.
Oh and btw capitals are endgame rather than starting content, you'll have quite a walk till you begin missing them.
Mr. Jacobs had to do what he had to do. He could have lied to the playerbase like every other gaming company has, but he chose not to. There were very valid reasons to everything done, and they're just trying to avoid pulling an AoC on us. He even stated that people would be upset about it, but Mythic isn't allowing any content that's less than "fabulous" to be released, and I highly respect that. A delayed release is out of the question because it would just be a bad business move and would also cause more problems, still being left leaving current problems unsolved.
I say suck it up and appreciate Mythic's honesty and track-record. What's being cut now may just come back later better than ever. We shall see.
Lol wow go read a little and get educated before you make a foolish post like this .... 4 of 24 classes .. the 4 removed were hybrids each realm still has a few tank and dps choices .. the 2 cities doesnt bother me and there will be content directed to each individual race...
I'm sorry, SundersGhost, but this post was for US not YOU. So kindly remember that when I was writing this post it was for US not YOU. So if YOU don't agree with it, YOU don't have to comment on it, YOU can let US discuss it. YOU should go to another thread to comment where people are writing posts for YOU. Thanks.
See how pretentious and annoying that is?
First off, what is the point of bitcing? It's done, Decide now if you can play it as is or move on. I feel taking away the four cities might not be the best idea but not having them for raid at the start was a good idea, gives people the chance to have some exposure before we have 3 targets to defend/take. Removing classes so late in the dev cycle I can imagine was a hard decesion to make, knowing that fans will react badly but if they really must remove them then so be it, maybe the classes that come after ( if any) will be far superior to the four removed. I for one will still be waiting outside EBs door the day the day it goes live and reserve judgement until I can play in the world.
whats the issue? if you dont like it, dont buy it. No one is going to miss you.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
I'm sorry, SundersGhost, but this post was for US not YOU. So kindly remember that when I was writing this post it was for US not YOU. So if YOU don't agree with it, YOU don't have to comment on it, YOU can let US discuss it. YOU should go to another thread to comment where people are writing posts for YOU. Thanks.
See how pretentious and annoying that is?
No pretentious and annoying at all. If that was your intent, just as with your original post, you failed to do more than more whining. WAAAAAAAAGH. If you think so poorly of the games condition, don't play. If you feel you need more of a spotlight for your whining, I am sure your mother will give you the attention you desire. Or maybe you are crying here coz she got tired of listening to you too?
This is not about US, it is about your need to cry and vet what has already been stated many times, and explained. It serves nothing more than to seek attention. GJ. QQ more.
I hate to use WoW as an example for anything but how many people hung out in Thunderbluffs? Not many. Undercity? Only if you we're close it it. Org was where it was at. Doesn't matter what race you were you needed a hub to hang out in. It wasn't until BC came and they opened city chat to include all cities thats people actually hung out anywhere else. Silvermoon? Even the Bloodelves didn't hang out there. Dropping the cities does nothing bad for this game.
The classes I hope they'll bring back but bringing 20 class instead of 24 isn't a big deal. How many other games have 24 classes at release anyways. On that note how many other games have 20 classes 3 years after release. Sure you want to keep all 4 archtypes with each of the races but this is nothing game breaking.
who cares about the lore these days? it's about releasing a game even if it's not "completed", and sacrifices must be made (such as cuting content) for the glory of money.
it's not the end of the world (and if you believe in 2012, we still have time to play I guess). Now, dont cut the goblin race
Every class is hybrid.
This is the reason why the discussion cant get anywhere, people resort to passing out insults.
Look, anyway you put it, 2 starting areas just got harder to play in. Without tanks, there is no one to hold the final bosses for the public quest events at the earlier teirs. Its not exactly doable witha bunch of dps classes running circles trying not to get hemselves killed.
I just dont understand how 4 classes couldnt be ironed out in 5 months. Launch is not a week a away its 5 months away. And the stripping of the cities while understandable but the same as stripping the classes.
I just dont see how they can say in an interview they are already planning the first expansion when they have stripped down the original concept. Sounds as if they will give us what they originally promised us in an expansion and some people will just cheer and be happy to hear it.
I wasnt going to play any of the classes they removed by removing the classes just destroys teh foundation they built all the races on and thats Tank, Melee dps, Range dps, Healer I just doesnt make any logical sense that 4 races have effectivly been redouced to full support, leavin the strongest races as Elf and Chaos.
The worst of it is, removing the 4 races and saying that it will benifit us.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Hey OP... hey.. guess what... THE HORSE IS FREAKING DEAD
No it isnt look it still moves! *whack dead horse with a stick*
"There no I in team but there a WE in weapon." -Thoragrin Oxenhide
You are sadly misinformed if you think they took the 4 tiers out for each of the races without a capital.
ALL THEY TOOK OUT WAS THE CAPITAL...... EVERYTHING ELSE IS STILL THERE.
Go read some of the other posts or the VN board post by Mark Jacobs, PLEASE.
If you cannot comprehend after that, or still feel the way you did when you posted this..... try..... not playing?
STOP WHINING!
You are sadly misinformed if you think they took the 4 tiers out for each of the races without a capital.
ALL THEY TOOK OUT WAS THE CAPITAL...... EVERYTHING ELSE IS STILL THERE.
Go read some of the other posts or the VN board post by Mark Jacobs, PLEASE.
If you cannot comprehend after that, or still feel the way you did when you posted this..... try..... not playing?
THAT STILL MEANS ALL THE LVLING IS THERE, the tier 4 zone is there (where you take over a fortress) all that is gone is the city.
Almighty and all-knowing Mark Jacobs just said again that they will release the game when it is great. So the only worry now is how long it will take.
and that'll take as long asit takes too...
Let me say just this one thing, you don't speak for me and thus "US" in your post.
Thanks.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
woot! Just bought my CE and I have the Open Beta access slip sitting on the desk next to me! I can't wait
I am not one of the US you speak of. I am really excited for WAR...so please stop using US because YOU speak for YOURSELF
WAAAGH!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Doesn't change the game at all for me
Couldn't have put it better myself SundersGhost.
As for the accusation by the OP that Gamesworkshop is unaware or unhappy withf these decisions...sorry but far as I understand and have read over the past year....GW is most definitely consulted ...EAMYTHIC and GW work together on this project. Lets remember that.
Far as the doomsaying ....the sky is falling chickenlittle .......give it a break. Just because the OP "perhaps" feels he is a defender of Warhammer lore...doesn't mean to say that things will not work out right in the long run for the impending game and the IP.
Far as cutting 4 classes and 4 cities..........if Mythic has made adjustments to accomodate those changes...then for now we have to be satisfied with that. Rather than having a tantrum because something isn't in ....YET...have some patience.
PLEASE.
Far too much of this malarkey going on..on this forum and others like it over the years. About time people grew up and thought things out a little more coherently.
Most games I know of...have ended up launching without a particular item or..setup due to problems incurred. This is not a massive conspiracy....its the reality of time and money being budgetted appropriately..........its the SAME IN ANY BUSINESS UNDERTAKING. And games after all are the game company's bread and butter....of course they are going to try to do their utmost to get a product out that will sell well for release and sell well in the future.
I only wish that Vanguard...back in Jan 2007 would have done the same..perhaps cut the Kojan continent and spent the rest of the time polishing up and optimizing the game.
Sometimes a project is so big you can't possibly get everything done prior to the looming release date...this is something I have seen happen over the past decade or so with several games.
Take off the doomsayer hats...sit back....have PATIENCE and give the Devs a little credit for knowing how to do their jobs...mmmmkay?
Waiting on Warhammer!!
Cend
I'm sorry, SundersGhost, but this post was for US not YOU. So kindly remember that when I was writing this post it was for US not YOU. So if YOU don't agree with it, YOU don't have to comment on it, YOU can let US discuss it. YOU should go to another thread to comment where people are writing posts for YOU. Thanks.
See how pretentious and annoying that is?
Your personal biases are showing.........if WE wish to discuss what you have posted...WE will do that..whether that pleases you or not.........
Some of what you posted as the OP ..is subjective...in other words personal opinion.........not fact. Thats what some folks in this thread were replying to.
Cend
Every class is hybrid.
Wrong
This is the reason why the discussion cant get anywhere, people resort to passing out insults.
Wrong
Look, anyway you put it, 2 starting areas just got harder to play in. Without tanks, there is no one to hold the final bosses for the public quest events at the earlier teirs. Its not exactly doable witha bunch of dps classes running circles trying not to get hemselves killed.
Wrong
I just dont understand how 4 classes couldnt be ironed out in 5 months. Launch is not a week a away its 5 months away. And the stripping of the cities while understandable but the same as stripping the classes.
Wont matter
I just dont see how they can say in an interview they are already planning the first expansion when they have stripped down the original concept. Sounds as if they will give us what they originally promised us in an expansion and some people will just cheer and be happy to hear it.
projection
I wasnt going to play any of the classes they removed by removing the classes just destroys teh foundation they built all the races on and thats Tank, Melee dps, Range dps, Healer I just doesnt make any logical sense that 4 races have effectivly been redouced to full support, leavin the strongest races as Elf and Chaos.
Wrong
The worst of it is, removing the 4 races and saying that it will benifit us. Wrong
Every class is hybrid.
Wrong
No class only does its designed role. Tank, melee dps, ranged dps, healer, none of them are just that. Since they all need to fight, they all need to defend themselves both of them can play 2 roles. Most ranged dps classes have a way to support heal, all tanks can dps, all healers even when spec'd for healing can do dps. There are no traditional single classes is WAR.
This is the reason why the discussion cant get anywhere, people resort to passing out insults.
Wrong
No, i am not.
Look, anyway you put it, 2 starting areas just got harder to play in. Without tanks, there is no one to hold the final bosses for the public quest events at the earlier teirs. Its not exactly doable with a bunch of dps classes running circles trying not to get themselves killed.
Wrong
Not speculation actual first hand knowledge. Unless you believe low level tanks will trek across world at launch to do something they can do in their own zone. Maybe 5 months after launch but not at the begning, there is no need.
I just dont understand how 4 classes couldnt be ironed out in 5 months. Launch is not a week a away its 5 months away. And the stripping of the cities while understandable but the same as stripping the classes.
Wont matter
Explain
I just dont see how they can say in an interview they are already planning the first expansion when they have stripped down the original concept. Sounds as if they will give us what they originally promised us in an expansion and some people will just cheer and be happy to hear it.
projection
No shit... I didnt claim to be an oracle when i made this post.
I wasnt going to play any of the classes they removed by removing the classes just destroys teh foundation they built all the races on and thats Tank, Melee dps, Range dps, Healer I just doesnt make any logical sense that 4 races have effectivly been redouced to full support, leavin the strongest races as Elf and Chaos.
Wrong
Explain.. unless you truly believe dps and healing are not support roles...
The worst of it is, removing the 4 races and saying that it will benifit us. Wrong
Explain.
Surely you dont think you countered any of my arguements with this.
Dont quote me again unless you plan on adding actual depth you the discussion.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
There is no such thing as a finished game and to date NO MMO has ever launched with all the content they had planned/promised. Get used to it, the fact no one though that the game wouldn't have seen cuts or broken mechanics boggles me.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.