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FYI Mythic has two new FAQ's up explaining decisions to cut classes and cities.
Cut cities:
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=155
Cut classes:
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=153
Most imporant bit of info for those too lazy to click:
"How will the RvR endgame work now with only 2 capital cities?
Actually, it works out even better than we had originally designed. Our game still has complete tier 4 RvR content for all three racial themed pairings. At the end of each of these tiers is a heavily fortified fortress for that race, which must be taken in order for one realm to claim victory for that pairing. Imagine a giant wall cutting across the horizon line that separates you from you enemies and their fortress. Players prepare their siege weapons, casters and archers line up on the ramparts and hill sides, as your realm clashes against the foreboding gates wielding a mighty battering ram and dodge scalding oil spilling from the turrets above.
These fortresses can only be assaulted once a realm has pushed their enemies’ resistance back to the fortress itself. This requires them to capture two zones in the Tier 4 Campaign for that pairing. Players must then capture the fortress to lock down the pairing and seize control. Once one realm claims victory over any two of the three pairings, their enemy’s capital city becomes vulnerable to attack. Players can then rally and unite to focus their efforts on taking their enemy’s city. This keeps the action intense and helps funnel the players together for the “battle of all battles” as players clash in the streets of the capital cities to claim victory for their Realm."
So now people can stop saying RVR in the Dwarf/greenskin and elven areas is pointless, as you must conquer their fortresses to be able to siege a city.
Comments
What you should do is just not buy the game till it has all 6 cities and the 4 delayed classes to prove your point.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
I just made an account to help out as vaguely as possible.
This move is THE BEST for the game. The other cities were developed, just not as heavily tested as the current two. Because there will only be two at release a few good things happen.
1. Players play together, there is no racial imbalance between playability of the community. Everyone gets to play/get killed by all races.
2. Mythic gets super balance testing, sure they have seen things in beta, but with EVERYONE fighting in these zones, they can see just how powerful units of classes become etc, causing FASTER balancing than if all the races were spread appart in thier respective realms fighting it out all the time.
3. This is great training for the start of the game. Everyone will get used to the system because it will be so straight forward, EVERYONE has a common goal, then when the other cities are released, people will be able to make decissions inherently based on gameplay and effect rather than the cities "they want to be in the most".
4. This makes the RvR a challenge. Yes its going to be hard regularly just to orchestrate lots of people taking the keep etc (WHICH ARE HARD TO DO, PERIOD) but NOW there is going to be alot of people at once making it even harder to really construct armies.
5. Because of 4, guilds will become large. Small guilds will seem useless because of the fact you join a guild to A. Be awesome in RvR and B. Have a somewhat organised affair when you go for world RvR.
6. This will be AMAZING resource testing for Mythic. With so many players lobbed into an area or server clutch they will be able to see the best hardware they need for the settings as well as the software changes needed to be changed. With only SO many people in beta, they cant know all performance issues. So once again, this calls for FAST fixes with these types of issues.
7. And lastly, this makes people love the game. These will be huge, and rediculous fights. Trust me.
What do you have to say about the 4 cut careers while your at it lol?
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Honestly I think it had to happen as soon as the cities were pushed back. With the 4 classes, every race was built to fight thier respective realm enemies, now since the push back, every race is balanced to fight all races in the 2 citied. Mythic is smart.
This system makes so much sense.
I always worried that with 6 cities, one side qould just concede a capital to the enemy without a fight so they could ransack an enemies capital they had abandoned.. which all leads to less struggle.
This concept of fortresses and two having to be defeated is a far better game design.
Shame to lose the content, but Im not so sure I want those 2 extra cities now... what system will they use when they have added the other capitals?
If everyone would start looking at this as phased approach to the game I think it would be better received. I have been waiting for this game along with everyone else for years. And RVR phasing in the other capital cities over time I think now is the best approach. I am disappointed with the character drops but as long as they keep working on them or something equivalent to what they had planned for each race I'll be in it for the long haul.
I beta tested Planetside years ago and they gave allot of promises during development and drop about 40% of the game content by over reaching. So they ended up with a sub pare MMO that has scraped along all this time. In the end what caused them to fail even though the battles were huge at the beginning was giving everyone a reason to stay and feel vested in what your faction was doing.
Mythic has stumbled on this and may have overreached a bit to have everything ready for release but they are making a RVR game that I think people will be able to feel apart of and if they look at PS as an example of what NOT!!! to do and with in a reasonable time get the rest of the promised functionality in game 6 months after release people be just bitching about the normal stuff that goes with any MMO.
Seriously use some thought before promoting yourself as a beta tester....you make some really illogical statements. If you were making them as purely opinion is one thing but trying to 'represent' .... *shakes head*
Look having 2 cities does not affect that much yes now we need 2 Tier 4 areas to siege, yes its a single goal across all realms but the rest is the same. Power guilds won't make a world of difference infact it'd cripple a side to be run by them especially if the other side has dozens of guilds and stragetically uses their massive amounts of banners.
I dont like the decision to only have 2 cities it sort of gets rid of the whole choice factor but I do believe its a good move to tell us early and to give us a decent reason as to why. I'd rather a game just A. not launch until complete (which in MMOs is impossible due to budgetting limitations...seriously if a game waited until it was fully complete in the MMO industry...the company would never recover from the cost) or B. make smart temporary or permant cuts in order to minimize subpar content.
i always though the fortresses where always in that was the tier 4 , the capital being the next phase.
They have talked about making it rotate from city to city of which you can seige. So oh empire is over, now its dwarfs. The place will still be there just cant siege , they havnt said anything solid i personaly want a vote system but w/e
RvR with 2 capital cities will be like playing pong.
Yah...except there's two mega force fields trapping the ball in the middle. It's more like tug-o-war. Sooner or later...someones going face first in the mud pit.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
yeah but if you keep playing then the ball moves into a new field and has random blockers and things hitting you.
WAR is more like pong with the pain machine attached to it.
i always though the fortresses where always in that was the tier 4 , the capital being the next phase.
They have talked about making it rotate from city to city of which you can seige. So oh empire is over, now its dwarfs. The place will still be there just cant siege , they havnt said anything solid i personaly want a vote system but w/e
the fortresses were always there....Mythic just never talked about them..
and believe me people those who haven't sieged a castle before (meaning those who havn't played DAoC) the forts are HUGH....when we game releases those nay-sayers who still end u playing will forget about their cut capitals....I'm excited for WAR and if you haven't seen the keep video from Paris .....you NEED TO
Such a terrible idea. Hopefully this only lasts till the other 2 pairing are released. If the do their rotating idea or something of the sort, I'll be very upset.
Kinda funny how for YEARS they advertised as having 6 capital cities... 3 battlefronts.. and Archetypes, not classes.. and all of that just went "poof" in 1 news Release..
I blog for GamingWeez. Do you? Discuss everything MMO related in a community that lets YOU be the blogger. www.GamingWeez.com
Until you have actually sat there designing a RVR system, I wouldn't say anything about bad ideas. Secondly, every mmo in history has promised more than they could pull off and cut some ideas or pushed them back. If you haven't figured this out by now I guess you will always be a bit clueless in that regard. The amount of content there, EVEN AFTER THE CUTS, is massive. It is more than enough and it greatly surpasses any amount in any other MMO launch. Most people complaining about these changes are very very clueless at the amount of content that will be available to them at launch.
Until you have actually sat there designing a RVR system, I wouldn't say anything about bad ideas. Secondly, every mmo in history has promised more than they could pull off and cut some ideas or pushed them back. If you haven't figured this out by now I guess you will always be a bit clueless in that regard. The amount of content there, EVEN AFTER THE CUTS, is massive. It is more than enough and it greatly surpasses any amount in any other MMO launch. Most people complaining about these changes are very very clueless at the amount of content that will be available to them at launch.
oh really? So if I am not a Godly Dev I can't state my opinion? Since when?
The Devs did not show much professionality by advertising the 6 cities system for long time and then decide to throw it out of the window in the last stretch, now did they?
The system as told works but for one thing. Exactly why the hell capturing,say, the elven fortress will help me siege Altdorf, half a world away? Does it represent me "cutting off" the elves from supporting the Empire?
I guess it might stand for a while until I see those hundreds of elves on Altdorf walls fighting with dwarves and humans. Cut off my boots.
Oh well, gameplay over lore is always good and the system DOES sounds promising, I hope they can test it enough.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Until you have actually sat there designing a RVR system, I wouldn't say anything about bad ideas. Secondly, every mmo in history has promised more than they could pull off and cut some ideas or pushed them back. If you haven't figured this out by now I guess you will always be a bit clueless in that regard. The amount of content there, EVEN AFTER THE CUTS, is massive. It is more than enough and it greatly surpasses any amount in any other MMO launch. Most people complaining about these changes are very very clueless at the amount of content that will be available to them at launch.
oh really? So if I am not a Godly Dev I can't state my opinion? Since when?
The Devs did not show much professionality by advertising the 6 cities system for long time and then decide to throw it out of the window in the last stretch, now did they?
The system as told works but for one thing. Exactly why the hell capturing,say, the elven fortress will help me siege Altdorf, half a world away? Does it represent me "cutting off" the elves from supporting the Empire?
I guess it might stand for a while until I see those hundreds of elves on Altdorf walls fighting with dwarves and humans. Cut off my boots.
Oh well, gameplay over lore is always good and the system DOES sounds promising, I hope they can test it enough.
You said it all right there for the "lore whiners". In the end its a game based off an IP. And frankly if the owner of the IP is ok with whats going on, who else really has the right to cry foul on the lore?
Only 2 capital cities ?
War = AOC like.
July 2008 / Good bye WAr
May 2008/ Good bye AOC
And WOW looking bigger and better at every MMO fail... sad times.
WAR still has its chance of course, but as has been said already, the game to rival WOW has to be great. Of course almighty Jacobs said WAR would be released when it was great, but... I will believe that when I see it.
Until you have actually sat there designing a RVR system, I wouldn't say anything about bad ideas. Secondly, every mmo in history has promised more than they could pull off and cut some ideas or pushed them back. If you haven't figured this out by now I guess you will always be a bit clueless in that regard. The amount of content there, EVEN AFTER THE CUTS, is massive. It is more than enough and it greatly surpasses any amount in any other MMO launch. Most people complaining about these changes are very very clueless at the amount of content that will be available to them at launch.
oh really? So if I am not a Godly Dev I can't state my opinion? Since when?
The Devs did not show much professionality by advertising the 6 cities system for long time and then decide to throw it out of the window in the last stretch, now did they?
The system as told works but for one thing. Exactly why the hell capturing,say, the elven fortress will help me siege Altdorf, half a world away? Does it represent me "cutting off" the elves from supporting the Empire?
I guess it might stand for a while until I see those hundreds of elves on Altdorf walls fighting with dwarves and humans. Cut off my boots.
Oh well, gameplay over lore is always good and the system DOES sounds promising, I hope they can test it enough.
Funny how people forget things..people OVER promise all the time. WoW left out Dragon Raids, PvP, hero classes, scripted / storyline events (because it was supposed to be a story based game) etc for its launch and I don't hear anyone crying. Hell the Game has 10 million people because what it did launch with and the work over time was funnily fantastic (even if I dislike the game i give it credit when its due).
MMOs are not your standard game they offer what they have in mind for design and do their best to give it to us and those that are smart recongize what doesn't work once it goes into production. Most mmos make us wait 4 to 5 years for a release we're getting war in about 3 years thats a pretty damn short dev time. Some companies are entirely dishonest and wait until its to late to get your money back to tell us of any big cuts or broken content (cough funcom). Others tell us the truth despite knowing some will cancel and most will stick it out (cough Mythic).
The most important promises & additions of the game are stil there. It'll launch with end game aka City Sieging, massive rvr battles, ToK, open dungeons, dye system, trophy system, 20 class archtypes, living cities, living guilds, banner systems, Keeps, Fortresses, Open RvR etc. Start pulling any of those things all together and the game is definitly off its track and I'd agree to the anger.
It wont offer the huge variation on endgame but itll be there and thats what matters (if they cut endgame then I'd have reason to be seriously pissed) it until later but its still there which is more than ANY other MMO can say. WoW had no endgame, AoC's was / is broken. Lord of the Rings...no end game. It was all done post launch.
Don't get me wrong im disappointed at the loss of variation at end game and the loss of the choppa. But consdering what I have seen in beta...and the fact the devs don't want to release with anything subpar I don't think a delay would truely fix what ever it is they're seeing internally unless its another year and honestly..I think I'd die if I had to wait another year for them to add to missing content that can be easily added post launch.
All the cities & classes removed have either never been seen or rarely been out of internal testing I think that is saying something about the quality of the missing peices (just check the herald's beta updates, its there for public view).
Don't you guys find anything wrong with a game developer botching 4 classes and not even being able to finish 50% of their cities before launch? So.. Elves don't have a home.. Orcs don't have a home? Four other playfields? I mean.. It's like...
My arm was cut off!
Wait, it's great because then I can make people carry things for me! WAGGHH!
Wow...