If Jim Lee is no newb to MMORPG's, hasn't he kept much contact on SOE's recent developments? Hasn't he heard about SOE's "management" of not just SWG, but also VG, MxO, EQ2?
You have that backwards. Jim has been close friends with Brad Mcquaid since the late 90s. He did the EQ comic for Brad as far back as 2001. In fact along with Curt Shilling were the most 2 visible early celebrity proponents of MMO
So Jim's involvement with SOE goes back to the late 90s. Jim also was close to Mcquaid when he moved to Sigil during the development of Vanguard.
But that's the old school ass-kicker in me talking. Most of you guys probably started playing MMOs in 2006 and never heard of anything before WOW. Maybe 2-3 smart dudes among the 1000 noobs who read this article actually "got" that FA reference by the writer
In truth Lee is overrated. He's got an unparalleled mastery of proportions but his drawing is one-dimensional. His storywork sucks. His dialogue is laughable and there's 0 evidence he's qualified to be a creative director for an MMO. HOWEVER there is one hope... it's that in a world were everything is dominated by WOW, and you cannot get a game into development which doesn't begin and end with World of Warcraft as a reference, Jim Lee is an OLD SCHOOL MMOer. Back in the day of MUDs/EQ each game had a different flavor, were HARDER and much more intelligent than MMOs today. DCU online is the one game that has a chance to do something different solely based on Jim's expertise with the genre. as opposed to ANOTHER WOW clone.
And, as a long time comic book nerd, I wish I could be excited about this game. But the fact is I'm a little nervous. I've always been a bigger Marvel fan, but I do love DC as well. I just can't imagine that any mmo, especially one that's being developed for console play, will live up at all to the great memories I have of the DC universe. Call me a pessimist, but it seems to me like I won't be able to help but be let down when 70 years of comic history is crammed down into a button masher. Add to it the fact it's being run by SOE and will therefore probably be released half finished and bugged as hell, and a sense of impending doom washes over me. Hell, I don't know if any developer could make a good DC mmo that would live up to my admittedly lofty expectations.
I'm not trying to convince anyone not to play this, and in fact it may be a very well developed mmo upon its release, but for my own sanity I don't think I'll be going anywhere near it. Whatever, just my two cents.
It was rumoured that SOE got the DCUO licence as a consolation for also taking on MxO off Warner Bros.
Thus far, DCUO looks somewhat appealing to me, but it looks a long way from polished / finished. Also, the entire slant of the MMORPG article is how cool it would be to play along side the established characters. Yes, it would... some of the time. But players don't always want to be Robin - sometimes they want to be Batman (or beat the snot out of Batman, for that matter).
Also, there hasn't been a good description of how players build characters. All in all, it's very early days for DCUO.
Even though I am usually a firm beleiver in the "Give each game its own fair chance" rule...I'm afraid I for one am also going to have to go with the popular consent here.... SOE MMO's are a tried and failed product all around. The companies history is just too blemished now to give any title that even has thier logo on it a fair shot...its just not worth wasting the time...even if it starts out as a good title.
Although again...this is my bias'd opinion of SOE:
SOE is historically known for its blunders. SOE is historically known for running a decent title into the ground. SOE has a history of ignoring all/most of the player feedback. To me...SOE is the worst type of publisher, they are a bottom dollar company that doesn't care about the so called "content" they slam around their game engine so long as its a shiny title that appeals to a crowd or already has a fan base. They have no desire to make a good and lasting game that will provide many hours of real entertainment and joy for people...and that should be the number one priority IMO. They are banking on the retail sales and the 1-3 months of subscription fees they will collect from DC fans before they flee in shock and dismay. In the end...another SOE station pass garbage game they can write off as being "successful" because sooooooo many people of course are "Playing/Subscribed" the game (because they have a station pass, not becuase they are active).
The worst part...regardless of how bad they do...or how they botch a game...or how they ignore and treat their player base like garbage...they will NEVER APOLOGIZE....never say they are SORRY....and never correct their mistakes...regardless of how obvious it is to the rest of the world. Seriously...SOE has burned the bridge...with extreme predijuced.
I feel truly sorry for anyone looking forward to this game because they are a fan of DC comics. Truly...my heart felt and sincere sympathies....because you will be witness to watching it get butchered. If you are a SW and a DC fan...well...really...there's nothing I can say to those people...they already know...or at least will find out.
"the next hero...is you". ::rolls her eyes:: DCU looks terrible, sounds terrible and most likely will suck so bad simply because SOE is in charge - not even going to give it a second look.
im just glad that SOE has their filthy paws all over DC and not Marvel.
Unfortunately, I find myself at the opposite side of the fence. I wish they'd done Marvel rather than DC. I don't much care if they screw up Spidey, but fucking up Batman is sacriligious.
You know what? Why hasnt anyone resurrected the old MicroProse series of X-COM UFO Defense as a MMO? That game is still one of my favorites and if youve played it youll know its almost a MMO without the M!
Someone get Mythic on the phone and lets get this gem from the past resurrected again! Maybe even see a new and improved X-COM offline game! Oh hell, maybe it could be both!
Might have been interested, but it is from SOE, so I won't touch it.
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Seriously, I hated SOE's guts what they did to SWG with the NGE update! But blaming SOE for Matrix Online's failure, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes failure? That goes WAY far people! Because if SOE didn't took them over, both of these games would have been long dead few months after their initial launch! R.I.P.! And you all call SOE a doomsday company, only because of the NGE? Seriously! Grow up and move on! I know I did. EverQuest I is still running. 10 years after release it's still running people! They still have enough subscriptions to keep it going. EverQuest II is doing fine too (I know I still love the game). In fact, it's one of the best MMO's out there atm. Problem is that SOE always sucked in proper PR, especially here in Europe (non-existent!!). Otherwise they would have had double the subscriptions they have now. But still it's 300k people subscribed to this game. Not bad! Because you all seem to forget that there are other MMO Companies out there that screw up too! Auto Assault? NCsoft, their only real blunder imo. Asheron's Call 2? EA i believe, not much to say here Matrix Online (before SOE picked it up!!) No clue who made it, who cares. Keeping a game on life support with rarely any updates or events, isnt helping it Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (before SOE picked it up!!) Soulbound items and made into a EQ clone. Tabula Rasa? Decent game Gods and Heroes (in fact the whole Company Perpetual Entertainment was a big joke, as they tried to screw up a HUGE IP like Star Trek Online as well!!) this game wasnt even released Hellgate: London (now R.I.P. as Flagship Studios closed it's doors without warning to either employees nor their Hellgate: London fans that stood by them since the failure launch all the way up till now!!) this game was just bad Age of Conan (and basically Anarchy Online as well... as how long did it take for Failcom...ehh Funcom to fix that game after the worst launch of all time??) ? It is too early to tell whether or not AOC is bad. There are always bugs at launch, whether you like it or not. And Anarachy online, aside from the bad launch, was an excellent game and is now considered to be an MMO gem.
So before you burn SOE at the stake. Let's just wait what get's delivered and see. And yes, I'm not to eager about the Console Aspect either. But just wait and see.
SOE screwed up alot more games then SWG. Think EQ, and Planetside. I hear people complain all the time about what SOE did to those 2 games, and SWG:NGE. Also SOE is notorious for keeping games on life support with rarely any updates or events, what good is that? And how much fun can you have in a game that the company that owns it, wont even bother keeping it updated. Also, people who havent even played these games dont like SOE just because of the bad reputation it has. Its a company's reputation that makes them either good or bad. And face it, SOE has the most shitty reputation in the MMOG industry
EDIT: also i feel pretty much like everyone else, except its a shame that its DC and not Marvel who is getting their game developed by SOE. I'm going to be at the comic-con in a little over a week, ill try to play it and report back here with some info.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Holy crow, if you people are not going to touch this mmo because how they ''screwed'' people, what mmo are you going to play then, every mmo maker has screwed there customers, most even worse than soe, so i hope you stand on the grounds and not play any mmo, if your that much of a freedom fighter for people getting screwed in mmos. And for some reason i dont think any of you have the balls to do that, i bet most of you are playing an mmo, and theres these disgruntled people that look at you the same way you look at people playing soe games.
Holy crow, if you people are not going to touch this mmo because how they ''screwed'' people, what mmo are you going to play then, every mmo maker has screwed there customers, most even worse than soe, so i hope you stand on the grounds and not play any mmo, if your that much of a freedom fighter for people getting screwed in mmos. And for some reason i dont think any of you have the balls to do that, i bet most of you are playing an mmo, and theres these disgruntled people that look at you the same way you look at people playing soe games.
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Holy crow, if you people are not going to touch this mmo because how they ''screwed'' people, what mmo are you going to play then, every mmo maker has screwed there customers, most even worse than soe, so i hope you stand on the grounds and not play any mmo, if your that much of a freedom fighter for people getting screwed in mmos. And for some reason i dont think any of you have the balls to do that, i bet most of you are playing an mmo, and theres these disgruntled people that look at you the same way you look at people playing soe games.
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Blizard-the burning crusade, made every endgame player worthl;ess and bzasically start raiding from scratch
ea-games..shut down every mmo company they bought ditched the game, farked the playerbase moved the dev s to stupid games on consoles. (I pray for mythic that they dont get bones)
Eve- werent one of the gm's caught cheating or some crap, and when trinity came out if you rebooted your computer after installation you could not reboot yer puter because it erased the boot.ini file
and theres one more where the name of the game escapes me now, but they changed the market and crafting andhalf the playerbase left
Dark and light- this game robbed peopleof money , made the game half finishd on release, and stole a game engine.
"the next hero...is you". ::rolls her eyes:: DCU looks terrible, sounds terrible and most likely will suck so bad simply because SOE is in charge - not even going to give it a second look.
I find it hard to believe they will stay with "the next hero..is you" for long in the game. This is the same company they felt everyone wanted to be Luke and Han in SWG instead of haveing there own story. After all it is always so "Iconic" to be just like Superman and Batman :P
"the next hero...is you". ::rolls her eyes:: DCU looks terrible, sounds terrible and most likely will suck so bad simply because SOE is in charge - not even going to give it a second look.
I find it hard to believe they will stay with "the next hero..is you" for long in the game. This is the same company they felt everyone wanted to be Luke and Han in SWG instead of haveing there own story. After all it is always so "Iconic" to be just like Superman and Batman :P
That just shows that SOE people have no idea whatsoever what makes a MMORPG.
Their heads are so firmly stuck in that "console single-player" paradigm they are completely unable to think outside it.
Ofc they think "everybody wants to be THE hero." That's the way they've been brought up. And that's why they'll go the way of the dinosaurs.
Funcom failed mostly due to this - but at least they had the sense not to promise everybody and his dog that they'll all be Conans.
Good riddance. I just hope the industry will finally stop putting SOE in the top tier of MMO developers. It's getting really pathetic - like watching the sports media pump up some poor old punch-drunk boxing champion of 10 years ago just to squeeze out a grubby buck in a match he's bound to get killed in.
Holy crow, if you people are not going to touch this mmo because how they ''screwed'' people, what mmo are you going to play then, every mmo maker has screwed there customers, most even worse than soe, so i hope you stand on the grounds and not play any mmo, if your that much of a freedom fighter for people getting screwed in mmos. And for some reason i dont think any of you have the balls to do that, i bet most of you are playing an mmo, and theres these disgruntled people that look at you the same way you look at people playing soe games.
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Blizard-the burning crusade, made every endgame player worthl;ess and bzasically start raiding from scratch
No. Not from scratch, they started from 60. 10 extra levels and a whole new world to explore is hardly seen as something "bad".
ea-games..shut down every mmo company they bought ditched the game, farked the playerbase moved the dev s to stupid games on consoles. (I pray for mythic that they dont get bones)
links? names? anything? They bought mythic out, and mythic is creating WAR. And DAOC is still running
Eve- werent one of the gm's caught cheating or some crap, and when trinity came out if you rebooted your computer after installation you could not reboot yer puter because it erased the boot.ini file
yes a GM helped out one of the corps in the game. Not sure what the punishment was so i wont comment on that. The crashing was fixed.
and theres one more where the name of the game escapes me now, but they changed the market and crafting andhalf the playerbase left
hmm i dont recognize a game like that atm.
Dark and light- this game robbed peopleof money , made the game half finishd on release, and stole a game engine.
an indy company's first and last mistake.
well you listed one company that could possible come close to being as bad as SOE, and thats the creators of D&L. The rest werent as game breaking as what SOE did, what you listed are things that were fixed and dealt with. SOE however did not "deal with" or "fix" anything, They broke their games. SOE did something that will make a some/alot of its playerbase leave. Last i checked WoW's expansion didnt make people leave, and people left D&L before their free month was up.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Two reasons this game will not live up to the hype for PC MMO'ers (the only kind at this point): PC players will be turned off by simplicity of a console port The comic book stories they talk about being 'live' will never happen. SWG, EQ2, Matrix and especially CoX promised live events, dynamic content and evolving storylines. The closest any of them delivered were static raids by Tusken in SWG and once in a year events from CoX. Nothing else. Same old hype and same old drivel from SOE. Given the fact that the PS3 has a crappy online interface, struggling sales and no market research proving any of the PS3 owners will actually subscribe to an MMO, we PC players will get the sloppy seconds of a failed console game. I prefer comic and sci-fi to fantasy, but I will not touch this with a ten foot pole.
I think you are misinformed when it comes to the live events in those games. I cannot speak for SWG, but I know CoX has had at least a few live events that were somewhat interesting. I don't remember the specifics, as I only heard of them through friends playing.
The matrix online has TONS of live events. In fact, before Monolith was taken over by SOE there was a dedicated Live events team. That was before I started to play, so I don't know much about that. What I do know is that there are currently live events run by the Head GM's and developers in game. They play key characters such as Morpheus and others and help to advance the storyline.
And at the SOE bashing. I really have NO problem with SOE. They fucked up EQ and SWG, yeah I understand. SWG was doomed from the beginning. Sure Pre-Cu was unique, fun to many, but their subscriber numbers was not where they wanted it to be for the biggest IP in the world. In fact, SOE has done a lot of good stuff for MxO. The problem is: they stopped. The game has so much potential, but there just isn't enough support for it.
As others have said, SOE has done good with a lot of games. Vanguard, EQ2, Matrix Online, etc.
Back on topic Im really excited to see what happens with this project, as im a HUGE DC fan. More specifically, a Batman/Joker fan. And yes, im seeing the dark knight tonight.
I kind of like the art style, I see a few "ugh" moments. Like the giantic size of batman, and the style of nightwing, but I really like what they did with the joker. Hopefully they can do something good.
as much as i like the dc universe comics the fact its soe behind the game it really does nt inspire me with much confidence . i suppose theres always a slim chance that they learned from thier past mistakes . somehow i doubt it though .
out of interest are dc comics owned by sony now ? i dont keep up with whats happening in comics these days because they ve become way too overpriced .
i ll probeberly try the game if theres a free trial or i can get a buddy key but i would nt buy an soe game again without trying it first .i brought vanguard and got my fingers burnt . once bitten twice shy .
I'm not a blind SOE hater. In fact, I've never played SWG or MxO.
However, I tried really hard to like EQ2, both at launch and after the revamp. Oh, and again at the launch of Faydwer. I still think it's a tedious, shallow game with lackluster classes and a poor balance between solo and group play.
And I don't think EQ1 has fared so well under their continued guidance. Some things are better than they used to be, yes. But some things are a lot worse.
Vanguard is better than it was at release in the same way that dying by lethal injection is better than being burned at the stake -- not quite as painful, but you'd still rather be doing something else.
Oh, and let's talk about Legends of Norrath while we're at it. Worst customer support of any game I have ever played. And that is saying a lot.
So while I'm not a rabid enemy of SOE, they have yet to prove to me that they can make an MMO I want to play. I really don't think DCU is going to be any different.
Holy crow, if you people are not going to touch this mmo because how they ''screwed'' people, what mmo are you going to play then, every mmo maker has screwed there customers, most even worse than soe, so i hope you stand on the grounds and not play any mmo, if your that much of a freedom fighter for people getting screwed in mmos. And for some reason i dont think any of you have the balls to do that, i bet most of you are playing an mmo, and theres these disgruntled people that look at you the same way you look at people playing soe games.
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Blizard-the burning crusade, made every endgame player worthl;ess and bzasically start raiding from scratch
No. Not from scratch, they started from 60. 10 extra levels and a whole new world to explore is hardly seen as something "bad".
ea-games..shut down every mmo company they bought ditched the game, farked the playerbase moved the dev s to stupid games on consoles. (I pray for mythic that they dont get bones)
links? names? anything? They bought mythic out, and mythic is creating WAR. And DAOC is still running
Eve- werent one of the gm's caught cheating or some crap, and when trinity came out if you rebooted your computer after installation you could not reboot yer puter because it erased the boot.ini file
yes a GM helped out one of the corps in the game. Not sure what the punishment was so i wont comment on that. The crashing was fixed.
and theres one more where the name of the game escapes me now, but they changed the market and crafting andhalf the playerbase left
hmm i dont recognize a game like that atm.
Dark and light- this game robbed peopleof money , made the game half finishd on release, and stole a game engine.
an indy company's first and last mistake.
well you listed one company that could possible come close to being as bad as SOE, and thats the creators of D&L. The rest werent as game breaking as what SOE did, what you listed are things that were fixed and dealt with. SOE however did not "deal with" or "fix" anything, They broke their games. SOE did something that will make a some/alot of its playerbase leave. Last i checked WoW's expansion didnt make people leave, and people left D&L before their free month was up.
Look up ea-games list of cancelled mmo's and company's they bought and dismantled i cant believe you have not heard of any w/o doing research lol.
SOE screwed up alot more games then SWG. Think EQ, and Planetside. I hear people complain all the time about what SOE did to those 2 games, and SWG:NGE. Also SOE is notorious for keeping games on life support with rarely any updates or events, what good is that? And how much fun can you have in a game that the company that owns it, wont even bother keeping it updated. Also, people who havent even played these games dont like SOE just because of the bad reputation it has. Its a company's reputation that makes them either good or bad. And face it, SOE has the most shitty reputation in the MMOG industry
EDIT: also i feel pretty much like everyone else, except its a shame that its DC and not Marvel who is getting their game developed by SOE. I'm going to be at the comic-con in a little over a week, ill try to play it and report back here with some info.
Seriously,
What you think Age of Conan is huh? More button mashing isn't possible then that game. It was build solely for the XBOX360 release this autumn! Period! And we all PC players have been sacked in all the PR Hype around Age of Conan.
Almost none of the OVERHYPED and advertised features in Age of Conan work or are just not there at all! Not to mention that stats, skills and feats are still completely messed up more then a month after release!
Age of Conan is a failure. And only thing Failcom is going for, is trying to suck in people from the XBOX360 and get a load of boxsale cash there too, so they can cover their development costs a bit.
And when we are so busy with Failcom, lets talk about their customer suport (both out of game as ingame)! OH YEAH! There is NONE! So we are already done talking about that.
And name a company worse then SOE? Well that's absolutely really simple to mention: Electronic Arts. So we are quick on that one too.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was developed by Sigil. leaded by Brad McQuad. A so called legend in MMO history.
Matrix Online was developed by Monolith (under the flag of Warner Bros. Time Warner is the biggest empire in the world atm mind you.)
Tabula Rasa developed by NCSoft and was leaded by Richard Garriott. Another so called legend in MMO history.
Tabula Rasa an okay game? After level30 it's finished. Happy grinding to level50 without new abilities, no more progress!! The whole game is just like Age of Conan. OVERHYPED and didn't deliver up to it's promisses! Altho Age of Conan was even far worse.
Geez, I am really tired of the ant-SOE whine whine whine. SOE isnt the only MMO company to have made bad decisions!
After my interest in Champions cooled a lot down, when I heared it was more an action FPS like game, I hope this will continue classic MMORPG virtues. I definitely put it on my watch list.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I do remember a thread a long time ago that said that it would be very action paced (more FPS style) than classical RPG MMO. This was SOE saying this btw. So I guess you're stuck. I can't remember the thread since it was a good 6+ months ago when I read it. I think it was posted here in the Pub, but I can't remember for sure.
Unfortunate. Dont they know the fast way is the way of the dark side? ... oh my...
I hope it doesnt come out like it. Where have the good old days of turn based combat gone, when combat was more like chess and less like Super Mario on LSD? Somehow more and more just want to focus on the action hyper hyper CS kids these days, and IMVPO such a road doesnt pay off. Those hyper hyper kids play CS for free and wont pay any subscription based MMO. Where along the line did we loose the good old school D&D style combat?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Holy crow, if you people are not going to touch this mmo because how they ''screwed'' people, what mmo are you going to play then, every mmo maker has screwed there customers, most even worse than soe, so i hope you stand on the grounds and not play any mmo, if your that much of a freedom fighter for people getting screwed in mmos. And for some reason i dont think any of you have the balls to do that, i bet most of you are playing an mmo, and theres these disgruntled people that look at you the same way you look at people playing soe games.
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Blizard-the burning crusade, made every endgame player worthl;ess and bzasically start raiding from scratch ea-games..shut down every mmo company they bought ditched the game, farked the playerbase moved the dev s to stupid games on consoles. (I pray for mythic that they dont get bones) Eve- werent one of the gm's caught cheating or some crap, and when trinity came out if you rebooted your computer after installation you could not reboot yer puter because it erased the boot.ini file and theres one more where the name of the game escapes me now, but they changed the market and crafting andhalf the playerbase left Dark and light- this game robbed peopleof money , made the game half finishd on release, and stole a game engine.
Blizzard - TBC : So what, it was more of the same, it wasnt a bad expansion. EA : AFAIK they never closed down an mmo. Ultima Online is still running, there were many mistakes made, but UO is still an ok game. DAoC, well since EA bought Mythic, it hasnt gotten worse. They are even releasing Origins, a promising new server. Now if you would talk about the game companies that they bought and ruined, then you may have a point, but that is not what we are talking about here. EVE Online : Yes, some employees from CCP misbehaved, CCP learned from that and they installed a counsil of players. But they did not ruin their game. On the contrary, EvE Online is the ONLY Sandbox MMORPG that I know of that stayed true to it's ideals. People that play EvE online KNOW they can keep playing the game for years to come, and that the game will improve and expand, but will stay recognisable to the veterans. There are loads of veterans playing since beta that are still playing now.
Sure there are some bad developers, however, SOE lied to our face, screwed us over and hoped we ( the vets ) would leave the game and be replaced by "better" customers that wanted WoW in the Star Wars universe.
Not even EA has done this to me.
So, no I will never touch another SOE game again, unless perhaps if they completely restore SWG to pre CU-NGE and fix the problems it had at the time.
And it is not only about principles, it is also about the risk I would take if I invest in an SOE mmorpg, because you never know when they will completely change the game and then I will have lost my emotional and time investment again.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Blizzard - TBC : So what, it was more of the same, it wasnt a bad expansion.
EA : AFAIK they never closed down an mmo. Ultima Online is still running, there were many mistakes made, but UO is still an ok game.
DAoC, well since EA bought Mythic, it hasnt gotten worse. They are even releasing Origins, a promising new server.
Now if you would talk about the game companies that they bought and ruined, then you may have a point, but that is not what we are talking about here.
EVE Online : Yes, some employees from CCP misbehaved, CCP learned from that and they installed a counsil of players. But they did not ruin their game. On the contrary, EvE Online is the ONLY Sandbox MMORPG that I know of that stayed true to it's ideals. People that play EvE online KNOW they can keep playing the game for years to come, and that the game will improve and expand, but will stay recognisable to the veterans. There are loads of veterans playing since beta that are still playing now. Sure there are some bad developers, however, SOE lied to our face, screwed us over and hoped we ( the vets ) would leave the game and be replaced by "better" customers that wanted WoW in the Star Wars universe. Not even EA has done this to me. So, no I will never touch another SOE game again, unless perhaps if they completely restore SWG to pre CU-NGE and fix the problems it had at the time. And it is not only about principles, it is also about the risk I would take if I invest in an SOE mmorpg, because you never know when they will completely change the game and then I will have lost my emotional and time investment again.
Greetz
Tjeez. John Smedly went finally on his knees last year and admitted they screwed up badly with the NGE update on SWG!
What more do you want? They already told us it is impossible to roll back to pre-CU / NGE. They prolly don't even have the original code anymore.
So get over it tjeez! I still play EverQuest2 since the beginning (made some pauses here and there to try out other MMO's, but always ended back up with EQ2 again) and it's a great game. They haven't done a NGE style update on this game and NEVER will!
SOE screwed you (me and many others) ONCE with SWG!
I lost count how many times Electronic Arts screwed us over with various games! So don't start me on that!
SOE screwed up alot more games then SWG. Think EQ, and Planetside. I hear people complain all the time about what SOE did to those 2 games, and SWG:NGE. Also SOE is notorious for keeping games on life support with rarely any updates or events, what good is that? And how much fun can you have in a game that the company that owns it, wont even bother keeping it updated. Also, people who havent even played these games dont like SOE just because of the bad reputation it has. Its a company's reputation that makes them either good or bad. And face it, SOE has the most shitty reputation in the MMOG industry
EDIT: also i feel pretty much like everyone else, except its a shame that its DC and not Marvel who is getting their game developed by SOE. I'm going to be at the comic-con in a little over a week, ill try to play it and report back here with some info.
Seriously,
What you think Age of Conan is huh? More button mashing isn't possible then that game. It was build solely for the XBOX360 release this autumn! Period! And we all PC players have been sacked in all the PR Hype around Age of Conan.
Almost none of the OVERHYPED and advertised features in Age of Conan work or are just not there at all! Not to mention that stats, skills and feats are still completely messed up more then a month after release!
Age of Conan is a failure. And only thing Failcom is going for, is trying to suck in people from the XBOX360 and get a load of boxsale cash there too, so they can cover their development costs a bit.
And when we are so busy with Failcom, lets talk about their customer suport (both out of game as ingame)! OH YEAH! There is NONE! So we are already done talking about that.
Lol im sensing a AOC troll in the area. YOU believed the hype and followed the game, i didnt and i enjoyed it while it lasted. Funcom is no where near as bad as SOE. And again, AOC was just released last month, i give it another month or 2 before real reviews come from the game.
And name a company worse then SOE? Well that's absolutely really simple to mention: Electronic Arts. So we are quick on that one too.
go ahead and name reasons.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was developed by Sigil. leaded by Brad McQuad. A so called legend in MMO history.
did i even say anything about VG?
Matrix Online was developed by Monolith (under the flag of Warner Bros. Time Warner is the biggest empire in the world atm mind you.)
yea, read the green text in the post you quoted.
Tabula Rasa developed by NCSoft and was leaded by Richard Garriott. Another so called legend in MMO history.
Tabula Rasa an okay game? After level30 it's finished. Happy grinding to level50 without new abilities, no more progress!! The whole game is just like Age of Conan. OVERHYPED and didn't deliver up to it's promisses! Altho Age of Conan was even far worse.
this is all based on your opinion.
Cheers
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Comments
You have that backwards. Jim has been close friends with Brad Mcquaid since the late 90s. He did the EQ comic for Brad as far back as 2001. In fact along with Curt Shilling were the most 2 visible early celebrity proponents of MMO
So Jim's involvement with SOE goes back to the late 90s. Jim also was close to Mcquaid when he moved to Sigil during the development of Vanguard.
But that's the old school ass-kicker in me talking. Most of you guys probably started playing MMOs in 2006 and never heard of anything before WOW. Maybe 2-3 smart dudes among the 1000 noobs who read this article actually "got" that FA reference by the writer
In truth Lee is overrated. He's got an unparalleled mastery of proportions but his drawing is one-dimensional. His storywork sucks. His dialogue is laughable and there's 0 evidence he's qualified to be a creative director for an MMO. HOWEVER there is one hope... it's that in a world were everything is dominated by WOW, and you cannot get a game into development which doesn't begin and end with World of Warcraft as a reference, Jim Lee is an OLD SCHOOL MMOer. Back in the day of MUDs/EQ each game had a different flavor, were HARDER and much more intelligent than MMOs today. DCU online is the one game that has a chance to do something different solely based on Jim's expertise with the genre. as opposed to ANOTHER WOW clone.
SOE ruins everything it touches, its the exact opposite of the midus touch. ill never play anything by them again.
In keeping with the theme of this thread:
You had me at hello...then you lost me with SOE.
And, as a long time comic book nerd, I wish I could be excited about this game. But the fact is I'm a little nervous. I've always been a bigger Marvel fan, but I do love DC as well. I just can't imagine that any mmo, especially one that's being developed for console play, will live up at all to the great memories I have of the DC universe. Call me a pessimist, but it seems to me like I won't be able to help but be let down when 70 years of comic history is crammed down into a button masher. Add to it the fact it's being run by SOE and will therefore probably be released half finished and bugged as hell, and a sense of impending doom washes over me. Hell, I don't know if any developer could make a good DC mmo that would live up to my admittedly lofty expectations.
I'm not trying to convince anyone not to play this, and in fact it may be a very well developed mmo upon its release, but for my own sanity I don't think I'll be going anywhere near it. Whatever, just my two cents.
It was rumoured that SOE got the DCUO licence as a consolation for also taking on MxO off Warner Bros.
Thus far, DCUO looks somewhat appealing to me, but it looks a long way from polished / finished. Also, the entire slant of the MMORPG article is how cool it would be to play along side the established characters. Yes, it would... some of the time. But players don't always want to be Robin - sometimes they want to be Batman (or beat the snot out of Batman, for that matter).
Also, there hasn't been a good description of how players build characters. All in all, it's very early days for DCUO.
Even though I am usually a firm beleiver in the "Give each game its own fair chance" rule...I'm afraid I for one am also going to have to go with the popular consent here.... SOE MMO's are a tried and failed product all around. The companies history is just too blemished now to give any title that even has thier logo on it a fair shot...its just not worth wasting the time...even if it starts out as a good title.
Although again...this is my bias'd opinion of SOE:
SOE is historically known for its blunders. SOE is historically known for running a decent title into the ground. SOE has a history of ignoring all/most of the player feedback. To me...SOE is the worst type of publisher, they are a bottom dollar company that doesn't care about the so called "content" they slam around their game engine so long as its a shiny title that appeals to a crowd or already has a fan base. They have no desire to make a good and lasting game that will provide many hours of real entertainment and joy for people...and that should be the number one priority IMO. They are banking on the retail sales and the 1-3 months of subscription fees they will collect from DC fans before they flee in shock and dismay. In the end...another SOE station pass garbage game they can write off as being "successful" because sooooooo many people of course are "Playing/Subscribed" the game (because they have a station pass, not becuase they are active).
The worst part...regardless of how bad they do...or how they botch a game...or how they ignore and treat their player base like garbage...they will NEVER APOLOGIZE....never say they are SORRY....and never correct their mistakes...regardless of how obvious it is to the rest of the world. Seriously...SOE has burned the bridge...with extreme predijuced.
I feel truly sorry for anyone looking forward to this game because they are a fan of DC comics. Truly...my heart felt and sincere sympathies....because you will be witness to watching it get butchered. If you are a SW and a DC fan...well...really...there's nothing I can say to those people...they already know...or at least will find out.
~I am Many~
"the next hero...is you". ::rolls her eyes:: DCU looks terrible, sounds terrible and most likely will suck so bad simply because SOE is in charge - not even going to give it a second look.
Unfortunately, I find myself at the opposite side of the fence. I wish they'd done Marvel rather than DC. I don't much care if they screw up Spidey, but fucking up Batman is sacriligious.
You know what? Why hasnt anyone resurrected the old MicroProse series of X-COM UFO Defense as a MMO? That game is still one of my favorites and if youve played it youll know its almost a MMO without the M!
Someone get Mythic on the phone and lets get this gem from the past resurrected again! Maybe even see a new and improved X-COM offline game! Oh hell, maybe it could be both!
Might have been interested, but it is from SOE, so I won't touch it.
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
SOE screwed up alot more games then SWG. Think EQ, and Planetside. I hear people complain all the time about what SOE did to those 2 games, and SWG:NGE. Also SOE is notorious for keeping games on life support with rarely any updates or events, what good is that? And how much fun can you have in a game that the company that owns it, wont even bother keeping it updated. Also, people who havent even played these games dont like SOE just because of the bad reputation it has. Its a company's reputation that makes them either good or bad. And face it, SOE has the most shitty reputation in the MMOG industry
EDIT: also i feel pretty much like everyone else, except its a shame that its DC and not Marvel who is getting their game developed by SOE. I'm going to be at the comic-con in a little over a week, ill try to play it and report back here with some info.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Holy crow, if you people are not going to touch this mmo because how they ''screwed'' people, what mmo are you going to play then, every mmo maker has screwed there customers, most even worse than soe, so i hope you stand on the grounds and not play any mmo, if your that much of a freedom fighter for people getting screwed in mmos. And for some reason i dont think any of you have the balls to do that, i bet most of you are playing an mmo, and theres these disgruntled people that look at you the same way you look at people playing soe games.
playing eq2 and two worlds
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Blizard-the burning crusade, made every endgame player worthl;ess and bzasically start raiding from scratch
ea-games..shut down every mmo company they bought ditched the game, farked the playerbase moved the dev s to stupid games on consoles. (I pray for mythic that they dont get bones)
Eve- werent one of the gm's caught cheating or some crap, and when trinity came out if you rebooted your computer after installation you could not reboot yer puter because it erased the boot.ini file
and theres one more where the name of the game escapes me now, but they changed the market and crafting andhalf the playerbase left
Dark and light- this game robbed peopleof money , made the game half finishd on release, and stole a game engine.
playing eq2 and two worlds
I find it hard to believe they will stay with "the next hero..is you" for long in the game. This is the same company they felt everyone wanted to be Luke and Han in SWG instead of haveing there own story. After all it is always so "Iconic" to be just like Superman and Batman :P
I find it hard to believe they will stay with "the next hero..is you" for long in the game. This is the same company they felt everyone wanted to be Luke and Han in SWG instead of haveing there own story. After all it is always so "Iconic" to be just like Superman and Batman :P
That just shows that SOE people have no idea whatsoever what makes a MMORPG.
Their heads are so firmly stuck in that "console single-player" paradigm they are completely unable to think outside it.
Ofc they think "everybody wants to be THE hero." That's the way they've been brought up. And that's why they'll go the way of the dinosaurs.
Funcom failed mostly due to this - but at least they had the sense not to promise everybody and his dog that they'll all be Conans.
Good riddance. I just hope the industry will finally stop putting SOE in the top tier of MMO developers. It's getting really pathetic - like watching the sports media pump up some poor old punch-drunk boxing champion of 10 years ago just to squeeze out a grubby buck in a match he's bound to get killed in.
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Blizard-the burning crusade, made every endgame player worthl;ess and bzasically start raiding from scratch
No. Not from scratch, they started from 60. 10 extra levels and a whole new world to explore is hardly seen as something "bad".
ea-games..shut down every mmo company they bought ditched the game, farked the playerbase moved the dev s to stupid games on consoles. (I pray for mythic that they dont get bones)
links? names? anything? They bought mythic out, and mythic is creating WAR. And DAOC is still running
Eve- werent one of the gm's caught cheating or some crap, and when trinity came out if you rebooted your computer after installation you could not reboot yer puter because it erased the boot.ini file
yes a GM helped out one of the corps in the game. Not sure what the punishment was so i wont comment on that. The crashing was fixed.
and theres one more where the name of the game escapes me now, but they changed the market and crafting andhalf the playerbase left
hmm i dont recognize a game like that atm.
Dark and light- this game robbed peopleof money , made the game half finishd on release, and stole a game engine.
an indy company's first and last mistake.
well you listed one company that could possible come close to being as bad as SOE, and thats the creators of D&L. The rest werent as game breaking as what SOE did, what you listed are things that were fixed and dealt with. SOE however did not "deal with" or "fix" anything, They broke their games. SOE did something that will make a some/alot of its playerbase leave. Last i checked WoW's expansion didnt make people leave, and people left D&L before their free month was up.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I think you are misinformed when it comes to the live events in those games. I cannot speak for SWG, but I know CoX has had at least a few live events that were somewhat interesting. I don't remember the specifics, as I only heard of them through friends playing.
The matrix online has TONS of live events. In fact, before Monolith was taken over by SOE there was a dedicated Live events team. That was before I started to play, so I don't know much about that. What I do know is that there are currently live events run by the Head GM's and developers in game. They play key characters such as Morpheus and others and help to advance the storyline.
And at the SOE bashing. I really have NO problem with SOE. They fucked up EQ and SWG, yeah I understand. SWG was doomed from the beginning. Sure Pre-Cu was unique, fun to many, but their subscriber numbers was not where they wanted it to be for the biggest IP in the world. In fact, SOE has done a lot of good stuff for MxO. The problem is: they stopped. The game has so much potential, but there just isn't enough support for it.
As others have said, SOE has done good with a lot of games. Vanguard, EQ2, Matrix Online, etc.
Back on topic
Im really excited to see what happens with this project, as im a HUGE DC fan. More specifically, a Batman/Joker fan. And yes, im seeing the dark knight tonight.
I kind of like the art style, I see a few "ugh" moments. Like the giantic size of batman, and the style of nightwing, but I really like what they did with the joker. Hopefully they can do something good.
as much as i like the dc universe comics the fact its soe behind the game it really does nt inspire me with much confidence . i suppose theres always a slim chance that they learned from thier past mistakes . somehow i doubt it though .
out of interest are dc comics owned by sony now ? i dont keep up with whats happening in comics these days because they ve become way too overpriced .
i ll probeberly try the game if theres a free trial or i can get a buddy key but i would nt buy an soe game again without trying it first .i brought vanguard and got my fingers burnt . once bitten twice shy .
I'm not a blind SOE hater. In fact, I've never played SWG or MxO.
However, I tried really hard to like EQ2, both at launch and after the revamp. Oh, and again at the launch of Faydwer. I still think it's a tedious, shallow game with lackluster classes and a poor balance between solo and group play.
And I don't think EQ1 has fared so well under their continued guidance. Some things are better than they used to be, yes. But some things are a lot worse.
Vanguard is better than it was at release in the same way that dying by lethal injection is better than being burned at the stake -- not quite as painful, but you'd still rather be doing something else.
Oh, and let's talk about Legends of Norrath while we're at it. Worst customer support of any game I have ever played. And that is saying a lot.
So while I'm not a rabid enemy of SOE, they have yet to prove to me that they can make an MMO I want to play. I really don't think DCU is going to be any different.
name three and list what they did that was worse then SOE. And make sure what they did affected a large playerbade also, considering what SOE has done.
Blizard-the burning crusade, made every endgame player worthl;ess and bzasically start raiding from scratch
No. Not from scratch, they started from 60. 10 extra levels and a whole new world to explore is hardly seen as something "bad".
ea-games..shut down every mmo company they bought ditched the game, farked the playerbase moved the dev s to stupid games on consoles. (I pray for mythic that they dont get bones)
links? names? anything? They bought mythic out, and mythic is creating WAR. And DAOC is still running
Eve- werent one of the gm's caught cheating or some crap, and when trinity came out if you rebooted your computer after installation you could not reboot yer puter because it erased the boot.ini file
yes a GM helped out one of the corps in the game. Not sure what the punishment was so i wont comment on that. The crashing was fixed.
and theres one more where the name of the game escapes me now, but they changed the market and crafting andhalf the playerbase left
hmm i dont recognize a game like that atm.
Dark and light- this game robbed peopleof money , made the game half finishd on release, and stole a game engine.
an indy company's first and last mistake.
well you listed one company that could possible come close to being as bad as SOE, and thats the creators of D&L. The rest werent as game breaking as what SOE did, what you listed are things that were fixed and dealt with. SOE however did not "deal with" or "fix" anything, They broke their games. SOE did something that will make a some/alot of its playerbase leave. Last i checked WoW's expansion didnt make people leave, and people left D&L before their free month was up.
Look up ea-games list of cancelled mmo's and company's they bought and dismantled i cant believe you have not heard of any w/o doing research lol.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Seriously,
What you think Age of Conan is huh? More button mashing isn't possible then that game. It was build solely for the XBOX360 release this autumn! Period! And we all PC players have been sacked in all the PR Hype around Age of Conan.
Almost none of the OVERHYPED and advertised features in Age of Conan work or are just not there at all! Not to mention that stats, skills and feats are still completely messed up more then a month after release!
Age of Conan is a failure. And only thing Failcom is going for, is trying to suck in people from the XBOX360 and get a load of boxsale cash there too, so they can cover their development costs a bit.
And when we are so busy with Failcom, lets talk about their customer suport (both out of game as ingame)! OH YEAH! There is NONE! So we are already done talking about that.
And name a company worse then SOE? Well that's absolutely really simple to mention: Electronic Arts. So we are quick on that one too.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was developed by Sigil. leaded by Brad McQuad. A so called legend in MMO history.
Matrix Online was developed by Monolith (under the flag of Warner Bros. Time Warner is the biggest empire in the world atm mind you.)
Tabula Rasa developed by NCSoft and was leaded by Richard Garriott. Another so called legend in MMO history.
Tabula Rasa an okay game? After level30 it's finished. Happy grinding to level50 without new abilities, no more progress!! The whole game is just like Age of Conan. OVERHYPED and didn't deliver up to it's promisses! Altho Age of Conan was even far worse.
Cheers
Hate to burst your bubble, but I do remember a thread a long time ago that said that it would be very action paced (more FPS style) than classical RPG MMO. This was SOE saying this btw. So I guess you're stuck. I can't remember the thread since it was a good 6+ months ago when I read it. I think it was posted here in the Pub, but I can't remember for sure.
Unfortunate.
Dont they know the fast way is the way of the dark side? ... oh my...
I hope it doesnt come out like it. Where have the good old days of turn based combat gone, when combat was more like chess and less like Super Mario on LSD? Somehow more and more just want to focus on the action hyper hyper CS kids these days, and IMVPO such a road doesnt pay off. Those hyper hyper kids play CS for free and wont pay any subscription based MMO. Where along the line did we loose the good old school D&D style combat?
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Blizzard - TBC : So what, it was more of the same, it wasnt a bad expansion.
EA : AFAIK they never closed down an mmo. Ultima Online is still running, there were many mistakes made, but UO is still an ok game.
DAoC, well since EA bought Mythic, it hasnt gotten worse. They are even releasing Origins, a promising new server.
Now if you would talk about the game companies that they bought and ruined, then you may have a point, but that is not what we are talking about here.
EVE Online : Yes, some employees from CCP misbehaved, CCP learned from that and they installed a counsil of players. But they did not ruin their game. On the contrary, EvE Online is the ONLY Sandbox MMORPG that I know of that stayed true to it's ideals. People that play EvE online KNOW they can keep playing the game for years to come, and that the game will improve and expand, but will stay recognisable to the veterans. There are loads of veterans playing since beta that are still playing now.
Sure there are some bad developers, however, SOE lied to our face, screwed us over and hoped we ( the vets ) would leave the game and be replaced by "better" customers that wanted WoW in the Star Wars universe.
Not even EA has done this to me.
So, no I will never touch another SOE game again, unless perhaps if they completely restore SWG to pre CU-NGE and fix the problems it had at the time.
And it is not only about principles, it is also about the risk I would take if I invest in an SOE mmorpg, because you never know when they will completely change the game and then I will have lost my emotional and time investment again.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Tjeez. John Smedly went finally on his knees last year and admitted they screwed up badly with the NGE update on SWG!
What more do you want? They already told us it is impossible to roll back to pre-CU / NGE. They prolly don't even have the original code anymore.
So get over it tjeez! I still play EverQuest2 since the beginning (made some pauses here and there to try out other MMO's, but always ended back up with EQ2 again) and it's a great game. They haven't done a NGE style update on this game and NEVER will!
SOE screwed you (me and many others) ONCE with SWG!
I lost count how many times Electronic Arts screwed us over with various games! So don't start me on that!
Cheers
Seriously,
What you think Age of Conan is huh? More button mashing isn't possible then that game. It was build solely for the XBOX360 release this autumn! Period! And we all PC players have been sacked in all the PR Hype around Age of Conan.
Almost none of the OVERHYPED and advertised features in Age of Conan work or are just not there at all! Not to mention that stats, skills and feats are still completely messed up more then a month after release!
Age of Conan is a failure. And only thing Failcom is going for, is trying to suck in people from the XBOX360 and get a load of boxsale cash there too, so they can cover their development costs a bit.
And when we are so busy with Failcom, lets talk about their customer suport (both out of game as ingame)! OH YEAH! There is NONE! So we are already done talking about that.
Lol im sensing a AOC troll in the area. YOU believed the hype and followed the game, i didnt and i enjoyed it while it lasted. Funcom is no where near as bad as SOE. And again, AOC was just released last month, i give it another month or 2 before real reviews come from the game.
And name a company worse then SOE? Well that's absolutely really simple to mention: Electronic Arts. So we are quick on that one too.
go ahead and name reasons.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was developed by Sigil. leaded by Brad McQuad. A so called legend in MMO history.
did i even say anything about VG?
Matrix Online was developed by Monolith (under the flag of Warner Bros. Time Warner is the biggest empire in the world atm mind you.)
yea, read the green text in the post you quoted.
Tabula Rasa developed by NCSoft and was leaded by Richard Garriott. Another so called legend in MMO history.
Tabula Rasa an okay game? After level30 it's finished. Happy grinding to level50 without new abilities, no more progress!! The whole game is just like Age of Conan. OVERHYPED and didn't deliver up to it's promisses! Altho Age of Conan was even far worse.
this is all based on your opinion.
Cheers
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -